Lowbie AOE powerleveling... say it aint so.

[DericksDM]

Howdy again GITP. I have come again to beg for your help.... again.
I have to have been doing this correctly over all these years, but I hope not.

So in 3.5 I have been having area of effect spells roll damage for each square the opponent occupies.

So If a large creature Occupies 2 squares and a caster chucks a fireball, Does it really hit for each square the opponent occupies that the area of the effect can hit? Does a large (T) creature get hit 2x with said fireball?

1.The "sudden" meta-magic feats do not raise spell level.
2.Area of effect spells hit multiple squares.
If I have been doing this right it makes power leveling stupid easy :-(
Save me from my players! :-p thanks in advance.

[hymer]

Being big means it's more likely you'll get hit (AC), harder to find cover, and it makes it more likely you'll get caught in an area of effect spell like fireball, since you don't have to be entirely inside the area fo effect to be affected - unlike, say, resilient sphere.
You are not affected multiple times (unless an effect specifically states this) just because you occupy more space.

[Gwendol]

No, the description of the spell clearly says exactly how much damage it causes.

A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area.

Nothing in that description suggests the situation you described.

[gomipile]

No, an area spell "affects whatever it catches in its area." So, it does whatever the effect of the spell is to a creature in the area, independent of how many squares it takes up.

Here is the relevant rules page:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm

[gbprime]

A target gets hit once by an area effect spell no matter how large it is.

(Otherwise it would be patently ridiculous. Size huge target (occupies 9 squares)... 10d6 fireball...)

"Sudden" feats do not raise a spell's level, no. But neither can you put them into a magic item for a free boost. (No wands of Sudden Maximized Fireball, for example.) Although I personally allow a Sudden metamagic feat to count as the regular one for purposes of making a magic item. (Someone with Sudden Empower, for example, can make a Wand of Empowered Scorching Ray, it's just a 4th level spell when they do, as normal.)

[DericksDM]

OMG I LOVE THIS PLACE! You guys rule! Bye bye aoe power-leveling

[gomipile]

"Sudden" feats do not raise a spell's level, no. But neither can you put them into a magic item for a free boost. (No wands of Sudden Maximized Fireball, for example.)

Could you quote and reference the RAW on this?

[WickerNipple]

Rules error aside, what could possibly be the point of "powerleveling" in a table top RPG?

What a colossal waste of time. If you / they are aiming to get to a certain level just put em there and get on with your game.

[The Glyphstone]

The concept of 'power-leveling' is pretty bizarre to begin with. The bigger something is, the more HP it'll have, and it'll have higher saves making the aoe spells more likely to do less damage. Plus you run into more resistances and immunities. Not to mention the idea of treating D&D like a video game to begin with, where characters can just decide to go out and slaughter goblins/orcs/ogres for a few hours until they learn a new sword move.

[Novawurmson]

Rules error aside, what could possibly be the point of "powerleveling" in a table top RPG?

What a colossal waste of time. If you / they are aiming to get to a certain level just put em there and get on with your game.

Or, "Well, that's all the trolls. You slaughtered the tribe. There's nothing else to kill here."

[DericksDM]

It seems they like to power-level.. not because they want a higher level but because the more efficiently they break stuff... the more they feel accomplished. :-p

[gbprime]

Could you quote and reference the RAW on this?

There isn't one. Only the reference in the Official FAQ.

The FAQ, as debated as the document is, makes it clear that if you get cheap or free metamagic and you use it to make an item, you still have to pay full price for the metamagic in terms of gold and XP. They specifically reference Sudden Metamagic and Divine Metamagic.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by DericksDM
It seems they like to power-level.. not because they want a higher level but because the more efficiently they break stuff... the more they feel accomplished. :-p

Everyone needs a little ego bust now and then. One way of getting this effect is by sending relatively low level moots at them. "Wow Our ECL 6 characters real destroyed those CR 1's. Go us!" (note, if you dress your mosters up they may not feel quite some much like you're throwing them a bone.)

[Novawurmson]

Oh, also: Tucker's Kobolds.

[Mystify]

If anything, I would house-rule that you take damage based on the percentage of your squares that are in the area. So a medium creature will take full damage in an area, and a large creature completely in the area takes full damage, but a large-creature half-in the area takes half damage. This makes AoE good against lots of small things, but harder to use on large creatures.
Of course, blasting spells don't really need the nerf, but it is a feature of a hypothetical system I am designing.

[TypoNinja]

If anything, I would house-rule that you take damage based on the percentage of your squares that are in the area. So a medium creature will take full damage in an area, and a large creature completely in the area takes full damage, but a large-creature half-in the area takes half damage. This makes AoE good against lots of small things, but harder to use on large creatures.
Of course, blasting spells don't really need the nerf, but it is a feature of a hypothetical system I am designing.

This doesn't have a logical basis, just because only half a creature is in an area doesn't mean the effect will be half as effective. Energy deposited on the target will be the same, just more localized.

Think of submerging your foot in 1 liter of acid vs having 1 liter of acid poured over you. Same amount of acid, different focus.

If anything you want to start looking at a hitbox mechanic not damage reduction.

[sonofzeal]

This doesn't have a logical basis, just because only half a creature is in an area doesn't mean the effect will be half as effective. Energy deposited on the target will be the same, just more localized.

Think of submerging your foot in 1 liter of acid vs having 1 liter of acid poured over you. Same amount of acid, different focus.

If anything you want to start looking at a hitbox mechanic not damage reduction.
On the other hand, pouring 1 liter of acid on you is going to be more debilitating than the same liter of acid on an elephant, and less debilitating than the same liter poured on a hamster. If nothing else, surface area compared to volume changes via the Square-Cube law.

[Mystify]

This doesn't have a logical basis, just because only half a creature is in an area doesn't mean the effect will be half as effective. Energy deposited on the target will be the same, just more localized.

Think of submerging your foot in 1 liter of acid vs having 1 liter of acid poured over you. Same amount of acid, different focus.

If anything you want to start looking at a hitbox mechanic not damage reduction.

Its the difference between being half immersed in acid or completely immersed in acid. The idea is that if you are on the outside edge of the blast, then you take partial damage. I've been deep in math on how to balance things, and that mechanic makes it so you can't exploit edge cases to bypass normal bounds. It also creates a basic mechanic for how to handle things that are barely clipped by an explosion. In warhammer 40k, being partially in a bast had a chance of being affected or not. This is an extension of that idea. But mainly it cleared up the balance on the damage distribution for area.