On adding new spells to spellbooks

[Yuukale]

I just noticed that it takes 24 effing hours to add a new spell to my wizard's spellbook.
Is there a way to make this less time-consuming?
I can see my wizard spending half a month in a library each time I get access to a new spell slot...

thanks =D

[Suddo]

I think on your new spell level the automatic spells are done without time cost. Also I think you can slowly add something to your spellbook (I'm away from my books at the moment).

[Yuukale]

yeah, the automatic bonus spells (those 2 you get every level) are time-free afaik. My concerns lie on expanding my spell selection, since this 24hrs requirement feels way too taxing.

[Ast]

Actually, isn't it even more taxing?

From SRD:


A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below)

And then:


Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook

Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her spellbook.
Time

The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level.

Seems like two days altogether.

I house-ruled for my campaign to 1hr/spell level for everything.

[Mystify]

Wizards have few enough limits as it is, you don't need to bypass it.

[seventyfour]

They also need to spend 100gp per page of writing the spell takes up i believe

[hydraa]

a BOCCOB'S READING ROOM from CM lets you do a 1 spell for a 9 hour investment per room per year (for free materials)

[Yuukale]

does the Amanuensis spell bypass this time requirement?

[Yuukale]

does the Amanuensis spell bypass this time requirement?

[Need_A_Life]

Amanuensis
[...]
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Target: Object or objects with writing
[...]
You cause writing from one source (such as a book) to be copied into a book, paper, or parchment. [...] The spell only copies nonmagical text, not illustrations or magical writings (such as spell scrolls or a sepia snake sigil). [...] If this spell is used to copy a spell from a spellbook, you must provide the necessary costly materials as if you were copying it by hand (see Arcane Magical Writings, page 155 of the Player's Handbook).Well, the duration indicates that a 24 hour project probably isn't the intended use of a spell, so presumably, the duration of this spell overwrites the normal action.

[Mystify]

Amanuensis wouldn't help. At best, you would be able to treat it like preparing a spell from another wizards spell book. The difficulty is not in writing down 9 pages of spell. It is decoding it, and then writing it again using your own notation.

[Yuukale]

If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can
copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook,
below). PHB 179

Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her
spellbook.
Time: The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell’s level. PHB:179

-----------

So, instead of just 1 day, it takes 2 days for each new spell? Are those 24 hours (on the 'writing new spell') splittable?

[Coidzor]

Amanuensis wouldn't help. At best, you would be able to treat it like preparing a spell from another wizards spell book. The difficulty is not in writing down 9 pages of spell. It is decoding it, and then writing it again using your own notation.

It gets wonky when you put it into a spellbook that you've already mastered or re-master the spell book ala Complete Arcane.

So, probably best not to stick to that bit too much, really. For one's sanity.

[Psyren]

Wizards have few enough limits as it is, you don't need to bypass it.

Except the whole party needs to wait for you to finish too (or adventure without their wizard.)

[Voyager_I]

Except the whole party needs to wait for you to finish too (or adventure without their wizard.)

That's what between-quest downtime is for.

Or, if you're high-level, just retreat to your fast-time pocket dimension and be back for breakfast.

[Psyren]

That's what between-quest downtime is for.

Or, if you're high-level, just retreat to your fast-time pocket dimension and be back for breakfast.

I was under the impression that the OP didn't have this kind of downtime, otherwise there'd be nothing to complain about. He could simply say "two days later..." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0155.html)

[Mystify]

Except the whole party needs to wait for you to finish too (or adventure without their wizard.)
Either there is nothing pressing, in which case "I spend 2 weeks at the library" Isn't an issue, or there is something pressing, and the wizard, horror of horrors, must make due with only his automatic spells for a time.
Neither is a problem.

[Psyren]

or there is something pressing, and the wizard, horror of horrors, must make due with only his automatic spells for a time.
Neither is a problem.

I agree there's no problem - unless the spells he's trying to scribe are to help the party.

[Mystify]

I agree there's no problem - unless the spells he's trying to scribe are to help the party.

Then why didn't he take those spells with the automatic spells? He will be no worse off than sorcerer, even in that case.

[Talionis]

Does Spelltheft affect your ability to scribe a scroll? It seems like it should, but there is no real mechanism to make it work that way.

[Mystify]

Does Spelltheft affect your ability to scribe a scroll? It seems like it should, but there is no real mechanism to make it work that way.

As in a spell-theif stealing the spell from you?
You have to expend the spell to craft an item. If something hinders that, you can't craft it.

[Psyren]

Then why didn't he take those spells with the automatic spells? He will be no worse off than sorcerer, even in that case.

But he's not a sorcerer; I would presume that if he wanted to be one, he would have chosen that class. There are many very helpful spells that are nevertheless too single-use or situational to be attractive to a sorcerer, but the wizard can afford to pick up because they don't have limited spells known.

I'm not saying that the wizard can't get by even with a handicap like this, but a good DM should consider the consequences for the group, not just the character.

[Mystify]

But he's not a sorcerer; I would presume that if he wanted to be one, he would have chosen that class. There are many very helpful spells that are nevertheless too single-use or situational to be attractive to a sorcerer, but the wizard can afford to pick up because they don't have limited spells known.

I'm not saying that the wizard can't get by even with a handicap like this, but a good DM should consider the consequences for the group, not just the character.

And unless they never, ever, ever have any downtime, then he can pick them up at a more opportune time. Spellcasters are powerful enough without trying to lift the restrictions they do have.

[Psyren]

And unless they never, ever, ever have any downtime, then he can pick them up at a more opportune time.

Yeah, as long as they do get that downtime at some point, I'm okay with that.
(Or if it's the kind of campaign that they won't, that they're aware of that fact.)


Spellcasters are powerful enough without trying to lift the restrictions they do have.

My point is that it's potentially a restriction on the entire group, not just the spellcaster.

I'm not advocating blanket deregulation - just that the situation be examined from a holistic perspective, and not simply "casters get enough nice things, we should never ever give them any concessions ever."

[Talionis]

As in a spell-theif stealing the spell from you?
You have to expend the spell to craft an item. If something hinders that, you can't craft it.

I asked my question terribly... If a wizard also had a level of spellthief and he stole a spell, is there a mechanic for him to add the stolen spell to his spell book.

[Mystify]

I asked my question terribly... If a wizard also had a level of spellthief and he stole a spell, is there a mechanic for him to add the stolen spell to his spell book.

The spell is lost within an hour of stealing it, so there isn't enough time to scribe it.

[Talionis]

The spell is lost within an hour of stealing it, so there isn't enough time to scribe it.

Too bad, I had an idea for a character focused on stealing spells to get them in his spell book.

[dextercorvia]

I asked my question terribly... If a wizard also had a level of spellthief and he stole a spell, is there a mechanic for him to add the stolen spell to his spell book.


The spell is lost within an hour of stealing it, so there isn't enough time to scribe it.

Almost. If he casts Mnemonic Enhancer, or Mage's Lucubration after casting the stolen spell, it is prepared in his head for the next 24 hours (or longer). Now he can copy it straight into his book. Only works (without additional cheese) for spells of 5th level and lower.

[Tyndmyr]

Almost. If he casts Mnemonic Enhancer, or Mage's Lucubration after casting the stolen spell, it is prepared in his head for the next 24 hours (or longer). Now he can copy it straight into his book. Only works (without additional cheese) for spells of 5th level and lower.

This is correct. In addition, we have the Pearls of Power, which solve the problem fairly cheeselessly for all levels of spells.

[Mystify]

Yeah, I figured there must be a way to get around that limit, but I didn't feel like trying to figure out what it did.

[Talionis]

Almost. If he casts Mnemonic Enhancer, or Mage's Lucubration after casting the stolen spell, it is prepared in his head for the next 24 hours (or longer). Now he can copy it straight into his book. Only works (without additional cheese) for spells of 5th level and lower.

Thanks Dex

[Arbane]

Too bad, I had an idea for a character focused on stealing spells to get them in his spell book.

If your DM will allow Pathfinder stuff, there's Blood Transcription (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-transcription), but it's evil and somewhat gross.

[FMArthur]

I guess this would be an appropriate place to mention the things (that I know of) which you can do to increase the number of spells you gain at level increase.

The Collegiate Wizard feat from Complete Arcane (p181): You get 3 extra first-level spells at the start of your career and 2 additional spells every time you level-up.
The Elf Wizard racial substitution level in Races of the Wild for generalist wizards: You have 1 extra spell slot of your highest level and you gain 1 extra new spell for your spellbook every time you level-up.
Another feat in Player's Guide to Eberron for elves called Aerenal Arcanist: You get an extra spell in your spellbook on every level-up after you take this feat and +2 to Knowledge (arcana). This one is probably the least worth it and I'd only recommend it if you're never allowed to shop for new spells. (The other two here are commonly taken but this one is not)

So with just the first option you get 4 spells total every level. If you get all three you'd be getting 6 spells a level. That would be enough to maintain a good utility collection.

[Psyren]

Well, Aerenal Elves have another advantage in that they can get Aerenei Focus, giving them any skill in the game as a class skill (and +3 untyped to the check on top of that) letting you pick up oddballs like UMD or Autohypnosis.

Plus they are still elves - so you can combine Aerenei Arcanist with Elven Generalist and get 4 free spells every level.

[Suddo]

This thread seems like a good place to ask.
Can you split up the craft of a spell over the course of 3 8 hour sessions? Same question but including the deciphering part too.

Edit: Oh and can you scribe during travel time if you are in like a wagon.

[Voyager_I]

Edit: Oh and can you scribe during travel time if you are in like a wagon.

That would probably come down to DM adjudication and your mode of transit.

If you asked me, a wagon or anything else that didn't provide a very smooth ride would be out of the question. A ship on smooth seas might be reasonable and anything that was magically powered or stabilized would probably be fine, but a wagon? Only if it's parked.

[Suddo]

That would probably come down to DM adjudication and your mode of transit.

If you asked me, a wagon or anything else that didn't provide a very smooth ride would be out of the question. A ship on smooth seas might be reasonable and anything that was magically powered or stabilized would probably be fine, but a wagon? Only if it's parked.

So a levitating wagon would be fine. Excellent.

Any comment on the main subject matter. Splitting up the time of scribing new spells.

[dextercorvia]

This is correct. In addition, we have the Pearls of Power, which solve the problem fairly cheeselessly for all levels of spells.

Unfortunately, Pearls of Power only allow us to recall a spell that was prepared and cast. In the spellthief example,only the second condition is met.

[Slipperychicken]

So a levitating wagon would be fine. Excellent.

Any comment on the main subject matter. Splitting up the time of scribing new spells.

I would let it be split, if not reduced to a few hours or so. It just feels punitive to say "all right, you can learn this spell, but you can't adventure for two days".

[Corlindale]

My old GM allowed me to split it - which was pretty much a necessity as we didn't have much downtime. Still don't think I ever managed to finish scribing a spell, but it was a pretty short campaign.

I would personally houserule it to something like Pathfinder's system, where it only take 1 hour + 1 hour/spell level. It's much more lenient, and it makes sense that more powerful spells would take longer to scribe.

[gomipile]

Well, a spellbook is magical text(not a scroll, but still arguably magical,) so Amanuensis explicitly wouldn't work.

Is there a higher level version of Amanuensis which could copy(non-scroll) magical text? I imagine if this task could be automated, some wizard would have done so.

If there is not such a spell, what level would it have to be? I'd give it a material component of "precious metals equal in cost to the inks required to copy the target spell normally," so that for convenience, you could just use the coin you normally have on you.

Actually, rather than giving the spell a level, how about this: Make it a level 0 spell, but part of the cost is that you have to sacrifice a prepared spell or spell slot for the day of the same level as the copied spell. Alternatively, it is a level 0 spell, but must be prepared in or cast from a slot of the same level or higher than the target spell.

[Yahzi]

You're saying a wizard doesn't have a few days of downtime between levels?

According to the book, 4 encounters per day and 13.3 encounters per level means you go from 1 to 20 over the summer. The problem here is obvios: where do all those old, white-haired wizards come from, if you can make 20th four times a year?

This is one of the places where RAW is inadequate. If anything, it should be weeks instead of days per spell level. Or months.

[ericgrau]

I think the gp cost is still a bigger issue. IIRC, practically speaking, that limits you to about 5 extra spells per spell level or 2-3 extra per caster level unless you want to start cutting into your budget for other things like that headband of intellect. 2-3 days per level up isn't that bad. Even if you're a spells known fanatic, 5 days per level up isn't horrible.

As for the day to decipher the writing, cast read magic instead.

[Acanous]

You're saying a wizard doesn't have a few days of downtime between levels?

According to the book, 4 encounters per day and 13.3 encounters per level means you go from 1 to 20 over the summer. The problem here is obvios: where do all those old, white-haired wizards come from, if you can make 20th four times a year?

This is one of the places where RAW is inadequate. If anything, it should be weeks instead of days per spell level. Or months.

Yep. When a DM that hates to give players down-time is paired with a party that hates TAKING downtime, you end up going up four levels every two weeks of in-game-time.
By the time you've walked from the smoking ruins of your home town of farmville to the capitol city where duke Evil the Wizard who nuked it lives, you've outlevelled him to the point where the party FIGHTER could solo him.

Actually had that happen in a campaign once, but it was a crusader.