Rules for eating the undead

[Calanon]

Are there any rules for summoning a Zombie with summon Undead I and just eating the Zombie? :smallconfused:

The reason I'm asking is that a friend of mines is hosting a game and the Cleric doesn't want to make us food... I regret telling her to get back in the kitchen to make me a sandwich so much right now... :smallfrown:

[Mystify]

Well, eating summoned creatures doesn't make sense. It would desummon, and then you would be hungry again.

And eating undead would be problematic, since it is rotten. Assuming you purify it, then it would still be a humanoid, and hence problematic to eat.

[Calanon]

Well, eating summoned creatures doesn't make sense. It would desummon, and then you would be hungry again.

And eating undead would be problematic, since it is rotten. Assuming you purify it, then it would still be a humanoid, and hence problematic to eat.

Well my Character is a sociopath :smalltongue: So I'm not really worried on the whole "Purity" or "taint" side effects

So would it be problematic If i ate the dead bodies of my enemies? :smallconfused: Personally I see no problem with eating Orcs, Goblins, Halflings, anything that isn'y MY race seems like fair game to eat :smallbiggrin:

New Question: Has D&D made me a sociopath with twisted moral values on life?

[Mystify]

Well my Character is a sociopath :smalltongue: So I'm not really worried on the whole "Purity" or "taint" side effects

So would it be problematic If i ate the dead bodies of my enemies? :smallconfused: Personally I see no problem with eating Orcs, Goblins, Halflings, anything that isn'y MY race seems like fair game to eat :smallbiggrin:

New Question: Has D&D made me a sociopath with twisted moral values on life?

It would be a better idea than eating a summoned zombie. However, keep in mind that one practical issue with eating humans IRL(which would transfer to humanoids in D&D) is disease. It is extremely easy to get sick from it since anything that a human can have would affect you, unlike a small subset of things that can cross species from a food animal to humans. Zombies would have that problem even more. Of course, purify food should solve that problem to.

[RoboHobo]

In soviet russia...

I doubt there are rules covering this, it's just up to your DM. If it was me, you'd die from horrible food poisoning.

Try hunting or gathering something. And be nice to the cleric next time. If I was a woman and you told me to "get back in the kitchen" (IC or OOC), I'd do a lot worse than letting you starve.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Cannibalism isn't any more evil than eating animals. It's just easy to catch disease, like Mystify said. There were, and possibly are, societies where eating the dead is to them like burying or cremation is to us.

[Grinner]

I saw a comic that (momentarily) discussed this very matter. One moment.

Behold! (http://dresdencodak.com/2009/01/27/advanced-dungeons-and-discourse/)

Nothing practical, I'm afraid.


Cannibalism isn't any more evil than eating animals. It's just easy to catch disease, like Mystify said. There were, and possibly are, societies where eating the dead is to them like burying or cremation is to us.

Unfortunately, some of those societies fell victim to their practices. Look up the New Guinea Kuru epidemic sometime.

[Medic!]

Do one better, cast that spell from BoVD(I think) that rips the target's hand off, then eat her hand.


Not really, (please for the love of all things furry not really)!

There are still several items out there to negate food requirements. I agree with the above in that if you summon it, the neat it, it will eventually dematerialize. Otherwise if it fits your character go for it. One of my favorite thing about D&D is that you don't ask "What will happen if I do this?" You do it, then you find out!

[Calanon]

I looked up in the BoVD that cannibalism has no real negative effects unless you eat certain creatures... Disgusting creatures... I don't think the Undead are disgusting... :smallfrown:

EDIT: My friend said she was joking :smalltongue: but now I really am curious... should there be rules for eating the dead?

[Novawurmson]

There's always the Sanguine (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo---sorcerer-archetypes/wildblooded/sanguine) Wildblooder Pathfinder Sorcerer.

[erikun]

EDIT: My friend said she was joking :smalltongue: but now I really am curious... should there be rules for eating the dead?
As opposed to eating the still-living? I would hope most stuff is dead before you eat it anyways. :smalltongue:

Anyways, technically you provide the material for summoned stuff. Therefore, eating a zombie isn't any worse than eating the pile of whatever it was before you cast the spell.

Eating actual animated undead (or recently departed) would probably not be too healthy, to say the least. I mean, your average zombie has probably been rotting for several months at least. There is not much beyond an Otyugh that could stomach that.

[Coidzor]

Are there any rules for summoning a Zombie with summon Undead I and just eating the Zombie? :smallconfused:

...That's a horrible idea.

Is your friend really that much of an ass that he makes you do bookkeeping on rations? If so, maybe you should just remind him that it's an asinine thing to do.


Well my Character is a sociopath :smalltongue: So I'm not really worried on the whole "Purity" or "taint" side effects

Sociopathy has [REDACTED] to do with edibility. :smallconfused:

[Calanon]

...That's a horrible idea.

how is Cannibalism a horrible idea? I mean vile yes... but horrible? thats going a little far :smalltongue:

How do you recommend getting food with Arcane magic?


Is your friend really that much of an ass that he makes you do bookkeeping on rations? If so, maybe you should just remind him that it's an asinine thing to do.

My friend is that much of ass indeed :smallannoyed: were talking about a guy that made an entire dungeon where arcane magic doesn't work and Divine magic functions perfectly fine...


Sociopathy has [REDACTED] to do with edibility. :smallconfused:

I'm not following...

[Venger]

Well my Character is a sociopath :smalltongue: So I'm not really worried on the whole "Purity" or "taint" side effects

So would it be problematic If i ate the dead bodies of my enemies? :smallconfused: Personally I see no problem with eating Orcs, Goblins, Halflings, anything that isn'y MY race seems like fair game to eat :smallbiggrin:

New Question: Has D&D made me a sociopath with twisted moral values on life?

are you guys playing with HoH's taint rules? if so, watch out, those are nasty and can ruin or kill your character. you are posting a thread worrying about food, so you're obviously not undead yet. if your corruption (physical taint, if your DM interprets cannibalism as a sin against your body) or depravity (mental taint, if your DM instead interprets it as a moral failing) gets too high, you die or go insane respectively.

if not, then there's like a million ways to not have to eat/eat for free in this game if your DM's being annoying and making you take account of every little thing in-game:

Everlasting Rations (food for 1 person/day)
Price: 350 GP
(MIC p. 160)

Travel Cloak (food for 1 person 3/day, 2 gallons water (or tea if you feel fancy), endure elements vs cold weather, and you can turn it into a tent 1/day (you only sleep once a day anyway, so sweet deal)
Price: 1200 GP
(MoF p166)

Field Provisions Box (1/day, food for 15 humans or 5 horses. simple, no frills)
Price: 2,000 gp
(MIC p 160)

good luck if you are playing in a survival/camping type game. those tend to be lethal.

in general, don't eat undead, a lot of them can make you sick (in-game) if you do. rejuvenative corpse is just what you need, but unfortunately it only works for undead (cast it on a corpse, it fills with negative energy, undead eat it and heal) but if you eat it and are alive you might get filth fever.


I saw a comic that (momentarily) discussed this very matter. One moment.

Behold! (http://dresdencodak.com/2009/01/27/advanced-dungeons-and-discourse/)

Nothing practical, I'm afraid.



Unfortunately, some of those societies fell victim to their practices. Look up the New Guinea Kuru epidemic sometime.

what a peculiar installment. love the art, though.

they got kuru (preon disease) because they ate the brains and spinal columns. as long as you avoid that, you at least won't get a preon disease (mad cow, or in this case mad human) that's why we don't eat cow brains or spines, it's not safe. if you ate the same parts off a human(oid) corpse that you do with a farm animal (ribs, steaks, etc) then you'd be fine, assuming that the NPC enemy you targeted wasn't carrying any diseases.

I'd advise against trying it. if your DM's the kind of DM that nickels and dimes you with buying granola bars to snack on, he's the kind to say "oh yeah, that guy had mummy rot you just didn't see it, make a save"



Do one better, cast that spell from BoVD(I think) that rips the target's hand off, then eat her hand.

grim revenge.

stupidly, you have to be undead to cast it. since OP is talking about scrounging for food, he must not be undead, so that's unfortunately out.

grim revenge actually turns the enemy's hand into a tiny wight, so it'd be harder (and unhealthier) to eat it.

[Arbane]

How do you recommend getting food with Arcane magic?


Magic Missile to shoot down birds, or cast Shocking Grasp, then stick your hand in a body of water with fish in it?

Back to the main subject, I remember one comic in an Exalted sourcebook where a Deathknight showed his necromancy off by having a whole roasted ox _walk_ into the dining-hall, so each guest could carve off their own slice... :smalleek: But since it was fresh, it _should_ have been fine to eat.

(And yes, he WAS doing it just to creep out the PC.)

[Coidzor]

how is Cannibalism a horrible idea? I mean vile yes... but horrible? thats going a little far :smalltongue:

You really see no difference between eating an undead and eating a person that was presumably recently killed?:smallconfused:

You should probably go ahead and either look up what decomposition does to a human body on google or wikipedia then if you still don't understand why eating a zombie would be an extremely bad decision.


How do you recommend getting food with Arcane magic?

Magic Missile? Burning Hands? Fireball? Charm Person? Entice Gift?


My friend is that much of ass indeed :smallannoyed: were talking about a guy that made an entire dungeon where arcane magic doesn't work and Divine magic functions perfectly fine...

Solution, don't play with him.

See my sig for alternate solution.


I'm not following...

Whether your character is a sociopath or not has nothing to do with his ability to digest rotten food, and yet you blew off the mention of needing the spell "purify food and drink" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/purifyFoodAndDrink.htm) by saying that you didn't care about "purity" because your character was a sociopath, completely missing the point of the spell making food safe to eat.

[Venger]

Back to the main subject, I remember one comic in an Exalted sourcebook where a Deathknight showed his necromancy off by having a whole roasted ox _walk_ into the dining-hall, so each guest could carve off their own slice... :smalleek: But since it was fresh, it _should_ have been fine to eat.

(And yes, he WAS doing it just to creep out the PC.)

he must have had levels in meat and bone knight

[Calanon]

are you guys playing with HoH's taint rules? if so, watch out, those are nasty and can ruin or kill your character. you are posting a thread worrying about food, so you're obviously not undead yet. if your corruption (physical taint, if your DM interprets cannibalism as a sin against your body) or depravity (mental taint, if your DM instead interprets it as a moral failing) gets too high, you die or go insane respectively.

if not, then there's like a million ways to not have to eat/eat for free in this game if your DM's being annoying and making you take account of every little thing in-game:

Everlasting Rations (food for 1 person/day)
Price: 350 GP
(MIC p. 160)

Travel Cloak (food for 1 person 3/day, 2 gallons water (or tea if you feel fancy), endure elements vs cold weather, and you can turn it into a tent 1/day (you only sleep once a day anyway, so sweet deal)
Price: 1200 GP
(MoF p166)

Field Provisions Box (1/day, food for 15 humans or 5 horses. simple, no frills)
Price: 2,000 gp
(MIC p 160)

good luck if you are playing in a survival/camping type game. those tend to be lethal.

in general, don't eat undead, a lot of them can make you sick (in-game) if you do. rejuvenative corpse is just what you need, but unfortunately it only works for undead (cast it on a corpse, it fills with negative energy, undead eat it and heal) but if you eat it and are alive you might get filth fever.



what a peculiar installment. love the art, though.

they got kuru (preon disease) because they ate the brains and spinal columns. as long as you avoid that, you at least won't get a preon disease (mad cow, or in this case mad human) that's why we don't eat cow brains or spines, it's not safe. if you ate the same parts off a human(oid) corpse that you do with a farm animal (ribs, steaks, etc) then you'd be fine, assuming that the NPC enemy you targeted wasn't carrying any diseases.

I'd advise against trying it. if your DM's the kind of DM that nickels and dimes you with buying granola bars to snack on, he's the kind to say "oh yeah, that guy had mummy rot you just didn't see it, make a save"




grim revenge.

stupidly, you have to be undead to cast it. since OP is talking about scrounging for food, he must not be undead, so that's unfortunately out.

grim revenge actually turns the enemy's hand into a tiny wight, so it'd be harder (and unhealthier) to eat it.

Ah Venger, your comments always have the effect of Tome of Clear Thought :smallbiggrin:

Do you have a way to have a near limitless supply of water?


You really see no difference between eating an undead and eating a person that was presumably recently killed?:smallconfused:

I see the obvious physical difference, what I don't see is the moral difference between the 2 technically Cannibalism is already wrong, so whats 2 weeks on the meal have to do with it?


You should probably go ahead and either look up what decomposition does to a human body on google or wikipedia then if you still don't understand why eating a zombie would be an extremely bad decision.

...Can you show me a timelapse of a human bodies decomposition? ...entirely academic of course


Magic Missile? Burning Hands? Fireball? Charm Person? Entice Gift?

Eh... you raise a very good point actually :smallconfused:


Solution, don't play with him.

See my sig for alternate solution.

You just told me to not eat people! Now your telling me to take a huge bite out of my DM? besides... he's lanky and skinny... not enough meat :smalltongue:


Whether your character is a sociopath or not has nothing to do with his ability to digest rotten food, and yet you blew off the mention of needing the spell "purify food and drink" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/purifyFoodAndDrink.htm) by saying that you didn't care about "purity" because your character was a sociopath, completely missing the point of the spell making food safe to eat.

I mentioned the characters sanity to describe how apathetic he is about everything from friends, to allies, to enemies, and about meals... If a Wizard could cast Purify Food and Water I totally could purify it but I can think of no available way to add that to my Spell List :smallfrown:

[Igneel]

Ah Venger, your comments always have the effect of Tome of Clear Thought :smallbiggrin:

Do you have a way to have a near limitless supply of water?

Decanter of Endless water: 9k, DMG :smalltongue:


I see the obvious physical difference, what I don't see is the moral difference between the 2 technically Cannibalism is already wrong, so whats 2 weeks on the meal have to do with it?

...Can you show me a timelapse of a human bodies decomposition? ...entirely academic of course

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1CD6gNmhr0), best I can do in such a short time.

[Calanon]

Decanter of Endless water: 9k, DMG :smalltongue:

That you can afford with WBL within the first 5 levels (All the WBL for 2-5 added together)

[Grinner]

How about an Everfull Mug? 200 gp. Generates 12 ounces of water three times per day.

[Calanon]

How about an Everfull Mug? 200 gp. Generates 12 ounces of water three times per day.

That works :D
Is there any way to get as much sleep as possible in as little time as possible? I remember hearing about a sleeping bag that let you rest for about 2 hours or so...

[Grinner]

Yeah, I think it's in the DMG2 or something. Give me a minute.

Edit: I recall that Elves have a similar ability.


Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1CD6gNmhr0), best I can do in such a short time.

I'm....speechless. Cool stuff.

[Igneel]

That you can afford with WBL within the first 5 levels (All the WBL for 2-5 added together)

Everful Mug: 300gp, MIC, 3/day 12 oz of water
Survival Pouch: 3,300gp, MIC 5/day have several options of items to pull out which includes Trail rations for 1 medium creature, 2 gallons of water, or a mule with bridle, saddle, and saddlebags that you can pick multiple times. Effectively you can get up to 10 gallons of water.
Portable Fountain: 1,800gp, Sandstorm, 1/day create a fountain by putting down a palm-sized jade chrysanthemum that expands into a 5ft water source. Creates 10 gallons and reverts back to palm size once the water is gone.
Replenishing Skin: 1,000gp, Sandstorm/MIC, normal waterskin that upon being emptied refills in 1d4 hours.

Better? :smallsmile:


That works :D
Is there any way to get as much sleep as possible in as little time as possible? I remember hearing about a sleeping bag that let you rest for about 2 hours or so...

Heward's Fortifying Bedroll: 3,000gp, Complete Mage, 1/48 hours gain full benefits of 8 hours of sleep in 1 hour?
Ring of Sustenance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#sustenance): 2,500gp, DMG, gain benefits of 8 hours of sleep in 2 hours along with sustained with food (and theoretically water)

[Coidzor]

I see the obvious physical difference, what I don't see is the moral difference between the 2 technically Cannibalism is already wrong, so whats 2 weeks on the meal have to do with it?

When did I say I was drawing a moral distinction? :smallconfused: What did I say that made you think I was addressing it from a morality standpoint rather than a "that stuff is inedible, dude."


You just told me to not eat people! Now your telling me to take a huge bite out of my DM? besides... he's lanky and skinny... not enough meat :smalltongue:

I told you not to eat undead corpses that have been moldering for pelor knows how long. :smalltongue: Initializing a strife (http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Strife) is totes different from hamster nomming (http://hamsternom.ampli.fi/) him.

Besides, lean meat is better for you.


I mentioned the characters sanity to describe how apathetic he is about everything from friends, to allies, to enemies, and about meals... If a Wizard could cast Purify Food and Water I totally could purify it but I can think of no available way to add that to my Spell List :smallfrown:

I sincerely doubt that anything so absentminded or foolish in its food choice selection would survive to make it to Wizard 5. :smalltongue:

[Calanon]

When did I say I was drawing a moral distinction? :smallconfused: What did I say that made you think I was addressing it from a morality standpoint rather than a "that stuff is inedible, dude."

Alright fair enough... Honestly? I'm fighting a losing battle with this debate, as a person I know that eating people is... a horrible idea (Unless you REALLY need to do it)

:smallredface: :smallredface: :smallredface:



I sincerely doubt that anything so absentminded or foolish in its food choice selection would survive to make it to Wizard 5. :smalltongue:

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

Besides with all the wonderful ideas you guys have given me for survival gear, I'm pretty confident I won't need to rely on human flesh to survive :smallsmile:

I'A GIANT! I'A MODTHULU! I PLEAD THEE TO CLOSE THIS THREAD FOR MY ULTIMATE ANSWER HAS INDEED BEEN ANSWERED!

Coidzor, thinks i shouldn't cast "Summon Mod" to close the thread and let it expire naturally :smallannoyed: Ah well... :smallsmile:

[Acanous]

It entirely depends on *How* decomposed the creature in question is.
If it's "Rotting zombie" bad, then no, do not eat. If you killed something, then immediately animated it, shouldn't be worse than eating a corpse.

[Venger]

Personally I see no problem with eating Orcs, Goblins, Halflings, anything that isn'y MY race seems like fair game to eat :smallbiggrin:


anything that isn'y MY race seems like fair game to eat :smallbiggrin:

seems like fair game to eat :smallbiggrin:

fair game :smallbiggrin:

game :smallbiggrin:
well played (http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/2/24/I_see_what_you_did_there_super.jpg)



Ah Venger, your comments always have the effect of Tome of Clear Thought :smallbiggrin:

well, thank you very much, that made my day.


Do you have a way to have a near limitless supply of water?

yes, several, but Igneel already mentioned them, except for the decanter of endless once you've leveled up more and the ring of sustenance that's already been mentioned.

I'll remind you that the travel cloak I mentioned earlier provides plenty of water in addition to food, endure elements, and shelter for 1200gp, which compared to say, everlasting rations (350) everfull mug (300) custom item of continuous endure elements (1000) and a tent (10gp, but 20lbs) for a total of 1660gp, 460gp more than the travel cloak, so that's reason enough. however, there's another variable I didn't mention because I didn't know your character was a wizard.

everful mug and everlasting rations don't weigh anything, and neither presumably would your custom item of endure elements. the tent, however, weighs 20lbs, which is a sizable portion of the 33lbs that a medium sized character with str 10 can carry around without taking encumbrance penalties (if your DM is bad enough to enforce eating food, he's bad enough to enforce encumbrance penalties) if your wizard is properly built, then he either has a str lower than 10, is smaller than medium, or possibly both. a problem, since you need to carry your tent even when you're not using it (I'm assuming for the purposes of this exercise your party has no pack mule, literal or otherwise)

the travel cloak provides all this stuff for 460gp cheaper and only weighs 1 pound, which even a venerable dragonwrought kobold can carry.



I see the obvious physical difference, what I don't see is the moral difference between the 2 technically Cannibalism is already wrong, so whats 2 weeks on the meal have to do with it?
he wasn't saying that, just that you'll get sick if you eat rotting meat. D&D is a cartoon, so once you cast "animate dead' on a corpse, they automatically get all putrid and maggots spontaneously generate and stuff.



...Can you show me a timelapse of a human bodies decomposition? ...entirely academic of course
...
hope you watched that in incognito mode. you dont want that in your history



I mentioned the characters sanity to describe how apathetic he is about everything from friends, to allies, to enemies, and about meals... If a Wizard could cast Purify Food and Water I totally could purify it but I can think of no available way to add that to my Spell List :smallfrown:

it's just an orison. the wand of it's cheap. do you have any use/interest in human paragon? you can pick UMD as your "class skill forever" and it's pretty darn useful if your party doesn't already have a skillmonkey. if it does, make him/her purify your food so it remains all right to eat

[Calanon]

well, thank you very much, that made my day.

I also provided you with an internet :D




I'll remind you that the travel cloak I mentioned earlier provides plenty of water in addition to food, endure elements, and shelter for 1200gp, which compared to say, everlasting rations (350) everfull mug (300) custom item of continuous endure elements (1000) and a tent (10gp, but 20lbs) for a total of 1660gp, 460gp more than the travel cloak, so that's reason enough. however, there's another variable I didn't mention because I didn't know your character was a wizard.

Hmm this shall indeed help me, I can obtain a ring or something for Endure Elements, Tents will be free so thats neat, I spent 650 on the Everlasting Rations and the Everfull mug which I can resell later and push for a Ring of sustenance which can help like hell :D



...
hope you watched that in incognito mode. you dont want that in your history

I'm on this thread incognito... *Puts on mustache and disguise*



it's just an orison. the wand of it's cheap. do you have any use/interest in human paragon? you can pick UMD as your "class skill forever" and it's pretty darn useful if your party doesn't already have a skillmonkey. if it does, make him/her purify your food so it remains all right to eat

No offense to my friends/party members but at a D&D table i trust them as far as I can throw them... of course that is just me being paranoid since they have time and time again proved that they are completely trust worthy but you never know... I am completely due for betrayal... :smalleek:

[Killer Angel]

Are there any rules for summoning a Zombie with summon Undead I and just eating the Zombie?

The widely accepted rule is: Don't.
It won't serve (summoned creatures yadda yadda) and it will be disgusting.

[Coidzor]

I'A GIANT! I'A MODTHULU! I PLEAD THEE TO CLOSE THIS THREAD FOR MY ULTIMATE ANSWER HAS INDEED BEEN ANSWERED!

1. You use the report button which is that exclamation point inside the red triangle that appears in every post underneath the username and avatar and next to the icon that indicates whether someone is online or not.

2. You don't need to ask mods to close threads just because the question has been answered. I believe the preferred thing to do is to just let the thread die naturally.

[Calanon]

1. You use the report button which is that exclamation point inside the red triangle that appears in every post underneath the username and avatar and next to the icon that indicates whether someone is online or not.

2. You don't need to ask mods to close threads just because the question has been answered. I believe the preferred thing to do is to just let the thread die naturally.

Ah... Meh, hate letting things fade away and die cause then I feel that I failed (regardless if my question was answered) If the mods close my thread, I don't feel like i failed. Hard to explain I guess... :smallredface:

[Venger]

I also provided you with an internet :D
thank you again :D





Hmm this shall indeed help me, I can obtain a ring or something for Endure Elements, Tents will be free so thats neat, I spent 650 on the Everlasting Rations and the Everfull mug which I can resell later and push for a Ring of sustenance which can help like hell :D

I would strongly advise against it. there are much better things to use up your ring slots on, especially if you are a wizard (ring of wizardry, ring of arcane might)

if you've already got the everful mug and rations and the tent's weight isn't an issue, then you might as well go with an armor crystal of adaptation (least) for 500gp. since you'd only be able to resell those 2 items for 325gp (since tents are free you presumably can't sell them to recoup 5gp) and then have to buy the 1200gp travel cloak so you'd still be out 875gp. if you just buy the crystal (and some armor to put it on, a masterwork mithril chainshirt (1250gp) you are out 1750, which is only 875 more than you would spend if you resold your mug and rations and bought the travel cloak, plus you have a +4 armor bonus, which is kind of nice, you are essentially getting the same thing you would have with the travel cloak but for the same cost in addition to armor bonus. (mithral chain shirt weighs 10 lbs, but you don't care. make sure you negate ASF somehow (any combination of twilight(-10), thistledown(-5), feycraft (-5), and githcraft (-5) depending on availability)

the least augment crystal provides endure elements (the lesser protects from alignment planar traits)for 1500, and greater protects from positive and negative planar traits for 3k (pure awesomeness) human paragon gives light armor proficiency so you can do that if you like since it's always good (are you human?) but if not, the nonproficiency penalty is the armor check penalty to str/dex check (you don't care, you're a wizard) and attack rolls (unless you use a lot of rays, you don' care) or you could just wear a mithril chainshirt since the armor penalty is 0, so it doesn't do anything. you really just want it for the armor crystal since you can't just wear it on a chain around your neck like flava flav



No offense to my friends/party members but at a D&D table i trust them as far as I can throw them... of course that is just me being paranoid since they have time and time again proved that they are completely trust worthy but you never know... I am completely due for betrayal... :smalleek:
that's fair enough, that's why I asked if you were comfortable trusting them with a wand. again, can't go wrong with paragon. make tem UMD checks youself, I can't think of a better skill for you to pick as your adaptive learning.

[Calanon]

I would strongly advise against it. there are much better things to use up your ring slots on, especially if you are a wizard (ring of wizardry, ring of arcane might)

Understandable, I just need something that can make me immune to the void of space by level 20 :smallsmile:


if you've already got the everful mug and rations and the tent's weight isn't an issue, then you might as well go with an armor crystal of adaptation (least) for 500gp. since you'd only be able to resell those 2 items for 325gp (since tents are free you presumably can't sell them to recoup 5gp) and then have to buy the 1200gp travel cloak so you'd still be out 875gp. if you just buy the crystal (and some armor to put it on, a masterwork mithril chainshirt (1250gp) you are out 1750, which is only 875 more than you would spend if you resold your mug and rations and bought the travel cloak, plus you have a +4 armor bonus, which is kind of nice, you are essentially getting the same thing you would have with the travel cloak but for the same cost in addition to armor bonus. (mithral chain shirt weighs 10 lbs, but you don't care. make sure you negate ASF somehow (any combination of twilight(-10), thistledown(-5), feycraft (-5), and githcraft (-5) depending on availability)

the least augment crystal provides endure elements (the lesser protects from alignment planar traits)for 1500, and greater protects from positive and negative planar traits for 3k (pure awesomeness) human paragon gives light armor proficiency so you can do that if you like since it's always good (are you human?) but if not, the nonproficiency penalty is the armor check penalty to str/dex check (you don't care, you're a wizard) and attack rolls (unless you use a lot of rays, you don' care) or you could just wear a mithril chainshirt since the armor penalty is 0, so it doesn't do anything. you really just want it for the armor crystal since you can't just wear it on a chain around your neck like flava flav

Never heard of the Armor Crystal of Adaptation :smallconfused:
Unfortunately my DM isn't allowing us to just buy Twilight, Thistledown, feycraft and other Arcane failure stuff so we have to make it ourselves :\
Shouldn't be to hard to get later on though.

I am indeed a Human :smalltongue: But Human Paragon is banned (unless your playing a Rogue)


that's fair enough, that's why I asked if you were comfortable trusting them with a wand. again, can't go wrong with paragon. make tem UMD checks youself, I can't think of a better skill for you to pick as your adaptive learning.

The only way I'd trust them is if I had a slave ring on all of there hands :smallamused:

PSICRAFT :D

While i have your attention, what do you think would be the best method to start a cult of self? I mean eventually this game is going to go epic and I would like a little divinity if possible :smallamused: I've considered just conquering a nation and forcing everyone to worship me and or fear me but eh... seems pretty weak since nobody would willingly worship me... I guess I could use magic to do it (Since magic is fairly rare and illegal in this world)

[Igneel]

While i have your attention, what do you think would be the best method to start a cult of self? I mean eventually this game is going to go epic and I would like a little divinity if possible :smallamused: I've considered just conquering a nation and forcing everyone to worship me and or fear me but eh... seems pretty weak since nobody would willingly worship me... I guess I could use magic to do it (Since magic is fairly rare and illegal in this world)

Something along the lines of 'Our Little Adventure (http://danielscreations.com/ola/comics/first.html)'s Angelo (http://danielscreations.com/ola/characters/angelo.html) BBEG plan for world domination? He is a Mystic Theurge that started a organization originally meant as a adventuring network with a tax to gain a certain amount of treasure found. Reading the story shows that despite the image of being a 'good guy' he is actually not so good. One of my favorite scenes was when he went to retrieve a Charmed Paladin (http://danielscreations.com/ola/comics/OLA/Page-268.jpg) he sent on a mission that was completed early by another baddie.

There is of course always Thrallherd, but who wants to go into Arcane, Divine, and Psionics :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Ah... Meh, hate letting things fade away and die cause then I feel that I failed (regardless if my question was answered) If the mods close my thread, I don't feel like i failed. Hard to explain I guess... :smallredface:

That's, to be frank, silly and contrary to the ethos of this and every other forum I've ever been on. :smallconfused:

[Urpriest]

This is largely irrelevant, but Avolakia are awesome and eat Zombies regularly.

[Kalmageddon]

Eating rotten flesh infused with negative energy, the antithesis of life itself, wouldn't provide any nourishment, in fact it would make you starve. You are literally eating death.

That's how I would put it.

Also, cannibalism is bad, mmmkay?

[Venger]

Understandable, I just need something that can make me immune to the void of space by level 20 :smallsmile:
is it vitally important to your character concept that you remain living? (immunity to damage trick) if not, then go undead. no need to breathe, you don't care if you're in space. beware of your dm. given that he makes you find food, he'l probably also have silent space, so make sure that you can somehow remain effective in such a space (generate air around you, metamagic rod of silent spell, cast spells w/o verbal components, etc) how long do you intend to remain in space at a time? the only reason I can imagine is to hide your phylactery, but that implies lichdom. which is the case?




Never heard of the Armor Crystal of Adaptation :smallconfused:
Unfortunately my DM isn't allowing us to just buy Twilight, Thistledown, feycraft and other Arcane failure stuff so we have to make it ourselves :\
Shouldn't be to hard to get later on though.
MiC p24. does just what I say it does. ew, your DM sounds awful. I suppose that's out as a way of getting endure elements. is it necessary in your game? I wouldn't be surprised if your DM made you roll to avoid nonlethal damage from sunshine and wind. the crystal offers advantage over the cloak since it protects against hot too, whereas the cloak just counteracts cold.


I am indeed a Human :smalltongue:
good old master race


But Human Paragon is banned (unless your playing a Rogue)whaaaaaat? that's too stupid for words. they're the one class that doesn't need human paragon (well, that's a lie, every class needs human paragon, they just need it least since they already have all the good class skills)



The only way I'd trust them is if I had a slave ring on all of there hands :smallamused:
does your group play pvp, or allow a party member to be the BBEG? if so, go nuts with your villainy, if not, don't, it ruins everyone's fun.


PSICRAFT :D
psicraft what?



While i have your attention, what do you think would be the best method to start a cult of self? I mean eventually this game is going to go epic and I would like a little divinity if possible :smallamused: I've considered just conquering a nation and forcing everyone to worship me and or fear me but eh... seems pretty weak since nobody would willingly worship me... I guess I could use magic to do it (Since magic is fairly rare and illegal in this world)
glad to offer it. it's lucky you ask. I am doing the same thing in my own game with my character (factotum 5/chameleon 4) remember a couple of things and you should be fine.

since this is a message board and I don't want to be misunderstood as talking about real religions or hurt anybody's feelings, I want to put a disclaimer here that I'm talking about in-game religions only

1) people do not switch religions easily

depending on if your DM uses the finite divine power or infinite divine power, strategies differ from here.

finite divine power means that apotheosis is a zero sum game and that you can't get any divine power without stealing it from another god, either through killing him, killing his followers, or deposing him and taking his place. this is more common in epic games, which you mentioned yours might be, so see if you can either ask your DM sneakily as he seems like the kind of guy who'd lock you down the instant you tried to plan anything.

infinite divine power means that new deities can ascend without hurting anyone, like the warforged's Becoming God. it also means that you don't need to piss off any gods in order to achieve godhood yourself. deities and demigods (the most recent book ruleswise, though vastly inferior in flavor and content to the 3.0 faiths and pantheons) gives us a number of " anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand devoted mortal worshipers" (deities and demigods p25) for a character with divine rank 1-5 which a character in the high teens can practically do in his sleep (if he for whatever sentimental reason still sleeps at that point) you must first achieve divine rank 0, but unfortunately, the book only specifies that they "may
have some worshipers" (p25) which is not a number. the most they could possibly require is 199, since 1-5 need "a few hundred" which ranges from a lower bound of 200-999.

my personal advice (since it's working thus far for me) is to find a well-established religion that is still either on the rise because it is relatively new, or because it is an offshoot of an existing church after a shism.

let's just say that a group of militants broke off from pelor's church and started insisting on worshipping him their own way and call themselves the brotherhood of the ultraviolet waveform.

things would still sort of be up in the air with regards to its precise hierarchy, so it's vulnerable for someone like a PC to pop in and make themselves invaluable to the organization. you are a wizard, so there's plenty of stuff you can offer them. do they need weapons in case the pelorites attack? help them out with wall of iron. do they need their stronghold fortified against attacks? wall of iron. do they need a stronghold to fortify first? wall of iron. do they not have any property at all? let them crash at your place (you do have your own demiplane, right?) while you prepare a couple of walls of iron for the next day to start building their fortress.

theyll be grateful to you because up and coming military powers (since churches do explicitly function as such in-game) need all the friends and resources they can get. it is at this point that you make your method of insertion more direct.

if you have some method of disguising yourself (who doesnt after level 3?), it may be wise to replace a high ranking official in the church after learning all you can about him or her. at this point, you can begin affecting changes in the church.

people are reluctant to directly worship a mortal man initially on his own merit, so an easier route to power is to claim to speak for your deity of choice. if you said that all that ultraviolet stuff was a bunch of crap and people should start worshipping you instead, they'd kick you out. so you have to be patient until you are sure that people are coming to you for their religious advice exclusively. creating an environment of paranoia (you never know who could be a pelorite spy!) is vital for this that they stay ignorant and come to you for their counsel.

as time goes on, attribute more "divine powers" to yourself and claim that they are the work of the ultraviolet one (you're a wizard, fake it) and as long as you take your time, you've got yourself a couple hundred followers.

bingo bango, divine rank. enjoy it. look on the SRD for all the stupid, illogical powers you get.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Also, cannibalism is bad, mmmkay?

Morally or practically?

Because if morally, there are entire cultures that disagree with you. And they're likely less evil than the Romans, who aren't usually viewed as nothing more than brutal tyrants, even though that was a noticeable aspect.

[Kalmageddon]

Morally or practically?

Because if morally, there are entire cultures that disagree with you. And they're likely less evil than the Romans, who aren't usually viewed as nothing more than brutal tyrants, even though that was a noticeable aspect.

Dude. :smallconfused:
South Park? Mr Mackey?
It was just a joke, chill out. :smallwink:

[Set]

Two trains of thought on eating the undead;

1) Negative energy is antithetical to life. Handle Animal says that animals require special 'above and beyond' combat training before they will attack an undead creature. Some undead flat out have an unnatural aura that will keep animals from going anywhere near them. Logically, tiny little living creatures, such as rats, vultures, centipedes, flesh-eating beetles, flies, maggots, bacterium, slime-molds, etc. would *also* avoid the hell out of a necromantically-energized walking dead thing, which means that an undead creature wouldn't rot at all. It might fall apart, but nothing biological would take root in it's negative energy charged antithetical-to-life flesh. As a result, it would be *sterile,* and as 'safe' as meat that's been microwaved to mush.

2) Negative energy is *not* antithetical to life, it's only antithetical to people, but totally loves rats and maggots and bacteria. The contagion spell may even *use negative energy to create life!* (something you can't do with a positive energy spell, EVER). So undead flesh, in this paradigm, where 'negative energy is totally hot for icky gross forms of life' trumps 'negative energy is antithetical to life,' would probably be *crawling* with disease, even more so than a normal dead rotting corpse, since negative energy is totally sitting in a tree with disease organisms (and possibly maggots and crows and rats), kay eye ess ess eye enn gee.

In any event, summoned critter flesh disappears when summoned critters die (or, in the case of undead, are destroyed at 0 hit points). Even if you carefully shaved off some flesh without 'killing' a zombie, when the spell duration expired, the zombie meat in your tummy would vanish, causing some sort of implosion at both ends of your digestive system that would be friggin' hilarious to watch, but probably really, really uncomfortable to experience.

Plus, gross.

Cowboy up and buy some rations. Never rely on a cleric for food. The stuff tastes like tofu anyway.

[Calanon]

is it vitally important to your character concept that you remain living? (immunity to damage trick) if not, then go undead. no need to breathe, you don't care if you're in space. beware of your dm. given that he makes you find food, he'l probably also have silent space, so make sure that you can somehow remain effective in such a space (generate air around you, metamagic rod of silent spell, cast spells w/o verbal components, etc) how long do you intend to remain in space at a time? the only reason I can imagine is to hide your phylactery, but that implies lichdom. which is the case?

It isnt to important that my character has a pulse at the end of the game (i.e. Lichdom) and I have considered it since he said we can have a total number of templates all the way up to a +8 LA which is pretty cool, I was gonna use the Dicefreak Lich template for this (We assigned a LA of +3+1 per rank) Unfortunately a Divine Rank does not have a LA so I can't just snatch that and not have to worry about starting a cult dedicated to me :smallmad:



MiC p24. does just what I say it does. ew, your DM sounds awful. I suppose that's out as a way of getting endure elements. is it necessary in your game? I wouldn't be surprised if your DM made you roll to avoid nonlethal damage from sunshine and wind. the crystal offers advantage over the cloak since it protects against hot too, whereas the cloak just counteracts cold.

Well eventually were going to have to go into space to fight Atropus So we just need something that can allow us to breath long enough to fight him


good old master race

Yep :smalltongue: I always play humans... The other races just seem to specialized for me :smallannoyed:


whaaaaaat? that's too stupid for words. they're the one class that doesn't need human paragon (well, that's a lie, every class needs human paragon, they just need it least since they already have all the good class skills)

Thats why he did it :smallannoyed: (And i thought about going Human Paragon and he nipped it in the bud before I could even try it)



does your group play pvp, or allow a party member to be the BBEG? if so, go nuts with your villainy, if not, don't, it ruins everyone's fun.

Party members can be the BBEG only in campaigns that are going into epic, and this one is, and I'm the BBEG :smallamused:


psicraft what?

It was a joke :smalltongue: Psicraft in our games are pretty much useless since we rarely use Psionics (Not that its a bad system and Psyrens shared knowledge has been MORE then enough of a deterrent to use Psionics) ...Who thinks of becoming a Psionic Sandwich? :smallconfused:

glad to offer it. it's lucky you ask. I am doing the same thing in my own game with my character (factotum 5/chameleon 4) remember a couple of things and you should be fine.


since this is a message board and I don't want to be misunderstood as talking about real religions or hurt anybody's feelings, I want to put a disclaimer here that I'm talking about in-game religions only

1) people do not switch religions easily

depending on if your DM uses the finite divine power or infinite divine power, strategies differ from here.

finite divine power means that apotheosis is a zero sum game and that you can't get any divine power without stealing it from another god, either through killing him, killing his followers, or deposing him and taking his place. this is more common in epic games, which you mentioned yours might be, so see if you can either ask your DM sneakily as he seems like the kind of guy who'd lock you down the instant you tried to plan anything.

infinite divine power means that new deities can ascend without hurting anyone, like the warforged's Becoming God. it also means that you don't need to piss off any gods in order to achieve godhood yourself. deities and demigods (the most recent book ruleswise, though vastly inferior in flavor and content to the 3.0 faiths and pantheons) gives us a number of " anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand devoted mortal worshipers" (deities and demigods p25) for a character with divine rank 1-5 which a character in the high teens can practically do in his sleep (if he for whatever sentimental reason still sleeps at that point) you must first achieve divine rank 0, but unfortunately, the book only specifies that they "may
have some worshipers" (p25) which is not a number. the most they could possibly require is 199, since 1-5 need "a few hundred" which ranges from a lower bound of 200-999.

my personal advice (since it's working thus far for me) is to find a well-established religion that is still either on the rise because it is relatively new, or because it is an offshoot of an existing church after a shism.

let's just say that a group of militants broke off from pelor's church and started insisting on worshipping him their own way and call themselves the brotherhood of the ultraviolet waveform.

things would still sort of be up in the air with regards to its precise hierarchy, so it's vulnerable for someone like a PC to pop in and make themselves invaluable to the organization. you are a wizard, so there's plenty of stuff you can offer them. do they need weapons in case the pelorites attack? help them out with wall of iron. do they need their stronghold fortified against attacks? wall of iron. do they need a stronghold to fortify first? wall of iron. do they not have any property at all? let them crash at your place (you do have your own demiplane, right?) while you prepare a couple of walls of iron for the next day to start building their fortress.

theyll be grateful to you because up and coming military powers (since churches do explicitly function as such in-game) need all the friends and resources they can get. it is at this point that you make your method of insertion more direct.

if you have some method of disguising yourself (who doesnt after level 3?), it may be wise to replace a high ranking official in the church after learning all you can about him or her. at this point, you can begin affecting changes in the church.

people are reluctant to directly worship a mortal man initially on his own merit, so an easier route to power is to claim to speak for your deity of choice. if you said that all that ultraviolet stuff was a bunch of crap and people should start worshipping you instead, they'd kick you out. so you have to be patient until you are sure that people are coming to you for their religious advice exclusively. creating an environment of paranoia (you never know who could be a pelorite spy!) is vital for this that they stay ignorant and come to you for their counsel.

as time goes on, attribute more "divine powers" to yourself and claim that they are the work of the ultraviolet one (you're a wizard, fake it) and as long as you take your time, you've got yourself a couple hundred followers.

bingo bango, divine rank. enjoy it. look on the SRD for all the stupid, illogical powers you get.

I feel that Divinity is within my grasp now :smallamused: I must tell you that I will be an Evil god if that changes anything :smalltongue:

[Venger]

It isnt to important that my character has a pulse at the end of the game (i.e. Lichdom) and I have considered it since he said we can have a total number of templates all the way up to a +8 LA which is pretty cool, I was gonna use the Dicefreak Lich template for this (We assigned a LA of +3+1 per rank) Unfortunately a Divine Rank does not have a LA so I can't just snatch that and not have to worry about starting a cult dedicated to me :smallmad:

oh, you must retain humanoid type to get the template. dicefreak lich? what rank?

free +8 LA? what the hell is this game?


Well eventually were going to have to go into space to fight Atropus So we just need something that can allow us to breath long enough to fight him
huh. well you'll be a lich/demilich by then anyway. shouldn't be a problem


Thats why he did it :smallannoyed: (And i thought about going Human Paragon and he nipped it in the bud before I could even try it)
that's stupid. HP's hardly overpowered, it's just mortar to fill in cracks in builds.


Party members can be the BBEG only in campaigns that are going into epic, and this one is, and I'm the BBEG :smallamused:
that's cool.


I feel that Divinity is within my grasp now :smallamused: I must tell you that I will be an Evil god if that changes anything :smalltongue:
divinity is within everyone's grasp. I figured you were evil since you want to eat zombies. but that doesnt change much it just makes it easier to find followers.

[Civil War Man]

In this hypothetical situation, I would eat a zombie's brain while yelling "HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT? NOT SO FUN WHEN SOMEONE DOES IT TO YOU!"

[Calanon]

oh, you must retain humanoid type to get the template. dicefreak lich? what rank?

This Template (http://dicefreaks.superforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=14) Well it can go up to a LA of +8 so yeah


free +8 LA? what the hell is this game?

Its a game where the DM made us sign contracts at school promising that we wont completely SHATTER his game in return he'll let us do as we please... within reason and as long as its within the plot of the story


huh. well you'll be a lich/demilich by then anyway. shouldn't be a problem

Idk if Demilich can work with the Dicefreak template :smallconfused:

that's stupid. HP's hardly overpowered, it's just mortar to fill in cracks in builds.

I know, but in the past I have been known to go crazy with my builds THE CURSE OF THE GIANT!


divinity is within everyone's grasp. I figured you were evil since you want to eat zombies. but that doesnt change much it just makes it easier to find followers.

I see :smallamused: this is going to be a fun game :smallamused: