View Full Version : [3.5] An assassin that grew bored with killing
JadePhoenix
2012-02-23, 11:11 AM
Hello everyone. I need help with a character again :smallwink:
I'm about to join a new group and I'm very excited about it. So I had this concept (based on a Brand New song - cookies to anyone who knows which one!) of an assassin that simply stopped killing. He wants to be a better man, but he really isn't - he thinks if he stops killing it will make him better, but he is not changed in any way. This guy is an evil pacifist, basically - he just happens to have some levels in Assassin.
My first idea was Ranger/Assassin, using the death attack to paralyze and a (pair of?) merciful sword(s?), getting Urban Tracking from ranger and favored enemy (human), which fits well thematically. My other idea is Factotum 3/Swashbuckler 3 into assassin, focusing a bit more on Int.
Ah, a little disclaimer: I know death attack has low dcs and is not exactly the best trick out there, I know assassin is not a very powerful class, I know I could do this better as a wizard or a druid, but that's not what I want, I want to have this guy with levels in the assassin prestige class, so please refrain from suggesting 'play a wizard' ^^
Any ideas on how to improve upon this concept? What about my spell selection? Other than Darkstalker, which feats could help my stealthness? Other than Urban Tracking, what can I do to find people in a city?
Oh, btw, I ended up being unable to play that Spellthief/Bladesinger I mentioned before, though I applied a similar build to a pbp in this forums.
Flickerdart
2012-02-23, 11:18 AM
Does it have to be regular Assassin? What about Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) or his buddy, the Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), or both? They get a lot of abilities that would help a pacifist Assassin: Mind Cripple lets you stab someone in the intellect, and Blind Spot lets you bypass people without inhuming them.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-23, 11:21 AM
Does it have to be regular Assassin? What about Psychic Assassin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) or his buddy, the Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), or both? They get a lot of abilities that would help a pacifist Assassin: Mind Cripple lets you stab someone in the intellect, and Blind Spot lets you bypass people without inhuming them.
Hm, while it does work, it bugs me a bit that the character would have had ways to be a pacifist before actually becoming one.
I mean, this guy was a killer for years, then he decided to stop killing.
But I'll think about it, thanks.
Telonius
2012-02-23, 11:21 AM
How's this for a concept...
Bard to Assassin, one level of Master of Masks for Gladiator (also useful for a disguise when he's "on the job)." Pick up Snowflake Wardance.
The Bard has a bunch of spells that would help with infiltration and stealth, and all of the prerequisites for Assassin are class skills. Assassins are only 3/4 BAB anyway, so you won't be losing all that much for attacks; Snowflake Wardance makes up for the rest. Bardic Knowledge can help simulate tailing a target.
You'll lose out on higher-level Bard spells, since Assassin doesn't advance Bard casting.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-23, 11:25 AM
How's this for a concept...
Bard to Assassin, one level of Master of Masks for Gladiator (also useful for a disguise when he's "on the job)." Pick up Snowflake Wardance.
The Bard has a bunch of spells that would help with infiltration and stealth, and all of the prerequisites for Assassin are class skills. Assassins are only 3/4 BAB anyway, so you won't be losing all that much for attacks; Snowflake Wardance makes up for the rest. Bardic Knowledge can help simulate tailing a target.
You'll lose out on higher-level Bard spells, since Assassin doesn't advance Bard casting.
Hm... if I can find a way to combo Doomspeak and death attack, it might work. Otherwise, I'm afraid the need for Cha and Int aside from melee stats would be too much MAD.
Dayzgone
2012-02-23, 11:25 AM
Im sure I’m not the only who is thinking this, but why not swordsage for the first few lvls? Get a little more bang for your buck, and plenty of fluff for this character idea.
Also Subduing strike from BoED might be of some help here, and the Justiciar PrC sounds like it would fit well for you.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-23, 11:29 AM
Im sure I’m not the only who is thinking this, but why not swordsage for the first few lvls? Get a little more bang for your buck, and plenty of fluff for this character idea.
Swordsage is good at fighting, but I think I'd get better skills from ranger or factotum because of favored enemy/urban tracking/brains over brawn.
Also Subduing strike from BoED might be of some help here, and the Justiciar PrC sounds like it would fit well for you.
Both are good-only options and this guys is definitely evil.
Flickerdart
2012-02-23, 11:37 AM
Hm, while it does work, it bugs me a bit that the character would have had ways to be a pacifist before actually becoming one.
I mean, this guy was a killer for years, then he decided to stop killing.
But I'll think about it, thanks.
He didn't have to take Mind Cripple or Blind Spot while he was in a stabbier mood. He could have picked something like Shadow Jump at earlier levels.
Dayzgone
2012-02-23, 11:38 AM
Both are good-only options and this guys is definitely evil.
Actually there not :smallwink:
and aside from factotum swordsage gets way more skills, but to each his own
Quietus
2012-02-23, 11:41 AM
He didn't have to take Mind Cripple or Blind Spot while he was in a stabbier mood. He could have picked something like Shadow Jump at earlier levels.
Also, it's worth noting that stabbing someone in the intellect puts them into a coma if you do it enough. Makes it real easy to make with the throat-slitting.
Dayzgone
2012-02-23, 11:53 AM
Rouge 3/ Swordsage 3/ Assassin X, take subduing strike somewhere in there and you have a guy who can track just as well as a ranger/ factotum from your spells and maneuvers (and hide/bluff/dissgues your way out of anything). Also you can dish out a ton of nonlethal sneak atk dmg. Take assassin stance for the swordsage and your dropin at least 5d6 sneak
Talionis
2012-02-23, 12:18 PM
I like the idea swashbuckler if you drop two levels into Swordsage you can get the feat that makes all the swashbuckling levels count also as rogue levels since all you need is the sneak attack from assassin stance to qualify. Kung fu genius wuss also get the Swordsage AC bonus to base off Intellignce.
FMArthur
2012-02-23, 01:08 PM
A Setting Sun focused Swordsage is lethal in all the ways a Swordsage normally is, but it also presents a style that is a defensive master in melee. If you ask your DM you should be able to get the throwing maneuvers to be nonlethal since it's not that big a deal and you're just tossing people around.
Shifting Defense (5ft step every time foe tries to attack you), Fool's Strike (redirect foe's attack to itself), and Ghostly Defense/Scorpion Parry (redirect foe's attack to its ally) are all effective at nonlethally demonstrating the character's mastery of the deadly arts, which is otherwise difficult without killing or maiming people right and left. The last thing you should want is to be an utter nonparticipant in battle.
Slipperychicken
2012-02-23, 03:08 PM
Couldn't he have just retrained himself to be better at not-killing? It also actually makes sense IC to be able to do something before you decide to make it your whole schtick.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-23, 11:44 PM
Couldn't he have just retrained himself to be better at not-killing? It also actually makes sense IC to be able to do something before you decide to make it your whole schtick.
But that's the thing, it's not his shtick. I wanted it to be something he decided on a whim. But that depends on whether I1ll be high enough level to have a merciful weapon or not.
I don't think merciful swords fits with the character concept. If he's changed enough that he sunk thousands of GP into reoutfitting himself then he has changed significantly. He wouldn't really be evil anymore. Or he'd be an impulsive spender which could also work.
Flickerdart
2012-02-24, 01:46 AM
Couldn't you just use saps instead of merciful swords? All you lose is that extra 1d6 of damage.
Averis Vol
2012-02-24, 02:14 AM
if your DM is open with other settings, kingdoms of kalamar has the infilitrator, its a great alternative to a rogue and it gets some better proficiencies too and is a pseudo combination of rogue and ranger with some sneak attack (i think its a level behind normal sneak) you get internal compass which means you can always discern north, you get trackless step, woodcraft which gives bonuses to stealth and climb and stoof when outside in a rural or wilderness setting and some other nice bonuses. theres also a retooled assassin on these threads that is quite good and gives you brain over brawn as an ability and some better uses for poison. think the retoolers name is T.G. oskar. hope this helps, as a fan of assassins i hope your character prospers.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-24, 07:30 AM
Couldn't you just use saps instead of merciful swords? All you lose is that extra 1d6 of damage.
But the visual is so much cooler!
FMArthur
2012-02-24, 10:21 AM
The truncheon from Book of Exalted Deeds is a one-handed, nonlethal weapon that deals 1d8 damage. It's 2gp and a martial weapon, so it requires basically no special investment.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-24, 10:22 AM
The truncheon from Book of Exalted Deeds is a one-handed, nonlethal weapon that deals 1d8 damage. It's 2gp and a martial weapon, so it requires basically no special investment.
oooh nice find! thanks!
FMArthur
2012-02-24, 10:37 AM
Glad to help. :smallsmile:
hamishspence
2012-02-24, 10:44 AM
I'm about to join a new group and I'm very excited about it. So I had this concept (based on a Brand New song - cookies to anyone who knows which one!) of an assassin that simply stopped killing. He wants to be a better man, but he really isn't - he thinks if he stops killing it will make him better, but he is not changed in any way. This guy is an evil pacifist, basically - he just happens to have some levels in Assassin.
A desire to be a better person is a good start in actually becoming one.
"Evil character who is sincerely trying to reform, but retains many evil attitudes" isn't that out of place in D&D. In Celestia there resides an evil wizard (by permission of the residents) who is like this.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-25, 02:53 AM
A desire to be a better person is a good start in actually becoming one.
"Evil character who is sincerely trying to reform, but retains many evil attitudes" isn't that out of place in D&D. In Celestia there resides an evil wizard (by permission of the residents) who is like this.
Have you ever read Incorruptible? That's the line of reasoning I'm following here.
Heatwizard
2012-02-25, 03:31 AM
A desire to be a better person is a good start in actually becoming one.
"Evil character who is sincerely trying to reform, but retains many evil attitudes" isn't that out of place in D&D. In Celestia there resides an evil wizard (by permission of the residents) who is like this.
I think the idea is something along the lines of "Killing people isn't as much fun as it used to be, I guess I'll give this 'being the good guys' thing a shot!" but it's going to turn out that being a good guy sucks too, and he's just bored and restless.
Factotum 3/Monk 2 with Kung fu Genius or Carmendine Monk is probably the best entry for Assassin. You get Int to a bunch of stuff, a bunch of bonus feats, decent skills, great saves, EVASION, three bonus feats...
Though Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue is a nice choice too. And, yeah Psychic Assassin is better than the regular one. Mind Cripple ftw.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-27, 01:13 PM
The problem is attaining ML 5th to go into Psychic Assassin.
Does Hidden Talent + Practiced Manifester cover this?
hamishspence
2012-02-27, 01:17 PM
Have you ever read Incorruptible? That's the line of reasoning I'm following here.
Afraid I haven't read it.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-27, 04:05 PM
Afraid I haven't read it.
You really should give it a read! It's one of Mark Waid's best works
The problem is attaining ML 5th to go into Psychic Assassin.
Does Hidden Talent + Practiced Manifester cover this?
Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue 2 with Practiced Manifester at 3rd level works fine.
Endarire
2012-02-27, 09:46 PM
Since "An Assassin casts spells just as a Bard does (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm)," does that mean Assassin progresses Bard casting too? What about Bard caster level?
Wyntonian
2012-02-28, 12:21 AM
Y'know, if he had Psionic Minor Creation to make poisons, he could probably keep doing that, just go for knockout/sleep/paralysis ones over con damage.
It's a rather common schtick, but it's notable in that it can be indicative of a major character shift while not reallocating resources.
JadePhoenix
2012-02-28, 04:26 AM
Factotum 3/Psychic Rogue 2 with Practiced Manifester at 3rd level works fine.
I'm not that big on Psychic Rogue and I fear that would really hurt my manifester level. I would miss most of the cool assassin spells. Hm. Dunno.
I'm not that big on Psychic Rogue and I fear that would really hurt my manifester level. I would miss most of the cool assassin spells. Hm. Dunno.
Psychic Assassin gets Mind Cripple though, which is awesome. And another special ability, so it seems better than regular Assassin.
Since "An Assassin casts spells just as a Bard does (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm)," does that mean Assassin progresses Bard casting too? What about Bard caster level?
It doesn't stack with Bard, it is just a roundabout way of saying that the Assassin can cast in Light Armor. and casts spontaneously, and can swap spells known out at certain levels.
Averis Vol
2012-03-04, 09:53 AM
Psychic Assassin gets Mind Cripple though, which is awesome. And another special ability, so it seems better than regular Assassin.
It doesn't stack with Bard, it is just a roundabout way of saying that the Assassin can cast in Light Armor. and casts spontaneously, and can swap spells known out at certain levels.
i thought it just meant assassins had to sneak around going "duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh, dun nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh, now im GONE!" to cast invisibility .:smallbiggrin:
i thought it just meant assassins had to sneak around going "duh nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh, dun nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh, now im GONE!" to cast invisibility .:smallbiggrin:
Most people ignore the part that bards have to basically sing their spells when applying it to Assassin casting, I'd imagine. :smallbiggrin:
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