progressing theurgy

[Venger]

now, I've heard many times that a class that progresses one existing class can't be used to progress a theurgic class. (ex. IotSV can't be used to progress MT) but what is the specific rules justification for this? it's not that I think it is indeed possible or that I want to do it, I just want to know which rule I can cite when asked about it.

I ask because I've always really wanted to play a fleshwarper and want to be prepared in case the DM enforces that 10 ranks in heal are indeed required to enter the class. the problem is that classes that get the "summon familiar class feature" (wiz, sor, DN) do not have heal as a class skill, and I on't want to burn a feat doing such. the classes that do have heal as a class skill do not have the summon familiar class feature.

fleshwarper's a casting class and already kills a level, so obviously losing as few as possible is the goal, otherwise, it would be straightforward enough to eat the cost of able learner, go sorcerer, dip druid and dive into fleshwarper or vica versa.

what my mind obviously put together for me was druid 3/sor 4 or wiz 3/MT1/fleshwarper 10/xx2 or 3 using fleshwarper to progress mystic theurge

I know that this doesn't work, but I don't know why?

can anyone help me out?

on a related note, does anyone know of any rules legal fleshwarpers that don't suck?

[Myou]

As far as I know it's simply because prestige classes are not classes - they're defined separately.

[Namfuak]

Beyond the obvious justification that being able to progress a theurge class with another PRC would be ridiculously cheesy, theurge classes (and any PrC that advances spellcasting in another class) aren't "Spellcasting" classes, they are "Classes that advance spellcasting." If you notice, a PrC with it's own spell list, like Ur-Priest or Assassin, can have its spellcasting progression progressed by another PrC that advances spellcasting.

I don't have Lords of Madness on me right now, but is there a benefit for it for taking both divine and arcane progressions? Wouldn't it make more sense to maybe take Human Paragon at first level, 2 levels of wizard, and then another two of Human Paragon? That way, you will be on track for CL 18 as the Wizard, rather than CL 16 wizard and CL 4 druid

[Igneel]

While I can't really help you with the PrC progressing a PrC, I can give you one tip that I know some people use for Fleshwarper.

There is a Halfling race in Dragon Magic (afb) that I believe are called Glimmerskin as they are descended from Gold Dragons. They get Heal as a Class skill just because of their race. A number of people use this class for a Eberron PrC that requires Heal ranks to use Invocations to shoot off Inflict wound spells, so I'm sure it applies to your situation.

From there on you can progress in whatever class you want without dipping.

[dextercorvia]

I don't have Lords of Madness on me right now, but is there a benefit for it for taking both divine and arcane progressions? Wouldn't it make more sense to maybe take Human Paragon at first level, 2 levels of wizard, and then another two of Human Paragon? That way, you will be on track for CL 18 as the Wizard, rather than CL 16 wizard and CL 4 druid

This makes a lot of sense. Why are you throwing away three casting levels to avoid losing one, or spending a feat?

Even if you could advance a theurgic PrC, you would still have an objectively weaker character with your intended entry than someone with 18 levels of Wizard casting.

[Venger]

theurge classes (and any PrC that advances spellcasting in another class) aren't "Spellcasting" classes, they are "Classes that advance spellcasting." If you notice, a PrC with it's own spell list, like Ur-Priest or Assassin, can have its spellcasting progression progressed by another PrC that advances spellcasting.

I don't have Lords of Madness on me right now, but is there a benefit for it for taking both divine and arcane progressions? Wouldn't it make more sense to maybe take Human Paragon at first level, 2 levels of wizard, and then another two of Human Paragon? That way, you will be on track for CL 18 as the Wizard, rather than CL 16 wizard and CL 4 druid

ah! that's it! thanks.

no, it's just that it's one of those rare prcs that'll let you enter as either arcane or divine. so either parth would work.


This makes a lot of sense. Why are you throwing away three casting levels to avoid losing one, or spending a feat?

Even if you could advance a theurgic PrC, you would still have an objectively weaker character with your intended entry than someone with 18 levels of Wizard casting.

I wasn't suggesting it, I was just saying that I was confused as to how to get heal as a class skill


There is a Halfling race in Dragon Magic (afb) that I believe are called Glimmerskin as they are descended from Gold Dragons. They get Heal as a Class skill just because of their race. A number of people use this class for a Eberron PrC that requires Heal ranks to use Invocations to shoot off Inflict wound spells, so I'm sure it applies to your situation.

ah yes! thank you very much. huh, that's weird, I don't think I know that class. is it nosomatic chirurgeon?

I kinda wanted some pale master too, the idea was a guy who just grafts everything onto his body. this'll mean that I can just lose 2 CLs and be just fine.

thanks, guys!

[Igneel]

a
ah yes! thank you very much. huh, that's weird, I don't think I know that class. is it nosomatic chirurgeon?

I kinda wanted some pale master too, the idea was a guy who just grafts everything onto his body. this'll mean that I can just lose 2 CLs and be just fine.

thanks, guys!

Yes, that's the name for it! I'm not a heavy Eberron-user so the name was not coming to mind. Course now another one-two 'crafting' classes that come to mind also come from Eberron, one turning you into a Living Construct and the other a Elemental via Construct grafts/elemental grafts.

Pale Master sounds like an interesting option to add as well tbt.

[Psyren]

Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion both progress other PrCs. However, if it's a 10-level PrC (which 99% of theurges are) you won't be allowed to progress past the final level until epic.