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joe
2012-02-23, 05:04 PM
So I'm finding out that tomorrow's game is going to take place in Discworld using Pathfinder rules. I haven't read the books unfortunately and don't really have time to read them before tomorrow evening, so I was hoping that youse could help me know what I should expect.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. :)

Socratov
2012-02-23, 05:09 PM
I know, it's an evil time sucking site, but this one should provide an answer to most of you questions:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/Discworld?from=Main.Discworld

for the rest:

http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Main_Page

good luck. Very, good luck.

huttj509
2012-02-23, 05:20 PM
It depends a LOT on the guy running it.

In general? It's Discworld. Take believable personalities, and have unbelievable things happen around them.

A lot of the humor in the novels comes not from the characters being funny, but the characters being in situations that turn out to be funny. Rincewind running away from danger isn't funny. When fate/luck/happenstance keeps throwing him into danger, and has it so that his running away winds up saving things, that's funny (ok, Rincewind himself is kinda funny...). The hero with a thousand retreating backs.

As to setting, even following the novels, there's everything from straight up Conan-style parody, to guard-noir style.

It could be played anywhere from a serious game (latest book dealt with smuggling, slavery, and racism), to overly silly (snowglobes as eggs for shopping carts that form into a shopping mall that's a parasite that consumes cities...can't remember what book that was).

Kaun
2012-02-23, 06:00 PM
I have run a Discworld game before and the best advice i could give to a player is "don't try to be funny!"

Discworld humor seems to be mainly about perspective, the situation and the way the world is conveyed. It's bloody hard to do right.

Try to make a character as real as you can.

The books aren't about heroic people doing heroic things they are about normal(ish) people getting stuck in weird situations and coming out (some what) on top.

Side note, Pathfinder seems an odd choice of a system for a Discworld game.

Alleran
2012-02-23, 10:12 PM
IT IS, OF COURSE, NECESSARY FOR A CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL TO MAKE AT LEAST ONE APPEARANCE OVER THE COURSE OF THE CAMPAIGN. YOU SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT YOUR DM UNDERSTANDS THIS NECESSITY.

:smallbiggrin:

Kaun
2012-02-23, 11:23 PM
IT IS, OF COURSE, NECESSARY FOR A CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL TO MAKE AT LEAST ONE APPEARANCE OVER THE COURSE OF THE CAMPAIGN. YOU SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT YOUR DM UNDERSTANDS THIS NECESSITY.

:smallbiggrin:

Did he turn up in Snuff?

I don't remember :smallconfused:

Jay R
2012-02-24, 12:51 AM
Arrange to try something that requires rolling a 00 on percentile dice three times in a row to succeed -- because one in a million chances work nine times out of ten.

Studoku
2012-02-24, 06:35 AM
Side note, Pathfinder seems an odd choice of a system for a Discworld game.
I've played a Discworld game in 3.5- it seems like the best system if you remove the bits that don't fit.

My knowledge of systems is a little limited but what would you recommend?


(snowglobes as eggs for shopping carts that form into a shopping mall that's a parasite that consumes cities...can't remember what book that was).
It was Reaper Man.

Eldan
2012-02-24, 08:53 AM
Discworld wizards are reasonably close to vancian mechanics, and people like Cohen, Hrun or Weasel are parodies on classical Sword and Sorcery Heroes anyway, so it's not that bad a fit, actually.

Rejusu
2012-02-24, 12:13 PM
So I'm finding out that tomorrow's game is going to take place in Discworld using Pathfinder rules. I haven't read the books unfortunately and don't really have time to read them before tomorrow evening, so I was hoping that youse could help me know what I should expect.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. :)

Well some of the details of the world will depend on when in the Discworld timeline the campaign is set. But I'll stick to how the world is in recent books. Note that this is just going to be a brief overview on some of the main points of the world:

Overview on the Discworld itself:

It's a disc resting on the backs of four elephants on the back of the giant space turtle great Ar'tuin. It has it's own micro sun and moon which orbit it. Instead of North, East, South and West the direction system used on the disc is Hubwards, Rimwards, Turnwise and Widdershins. Which are towards the hub, towards the rim, in the direction the disc is spinning and in the opposite direction to which it's spinning respectively.

The two most noteworthy landmarks of the Disc itself are the great mountain spire Cori Celesti at the centre of the disc (where the gods live) and the rim of the world.

Overview on Discworlds most common sentient races (and Nobby Nobbs):

Trolls -
Trolls are made of rocks. Quite literally. If I remember rightly their teeth are precious gems too. They're strong, tough and their intelligence depends on the weather. Their brains are silicon based so in colder climates like up in the mountains they're reasonably intelligent (even genius like in really cold places) but in warmer areas like the city they're consider to be as dumb as rocks.

Their ruler is the Diamond King of Trolls and they also don't get on particularly well with Dwarves, though relations between the two races have been improving as of late.

Dwarves -
All dwarves are male. Or rather all dwarves are outwardly male. Beards and all. Dwarf courtship often involves trying to figure out the other dwarfs gender first. In the later books though there's a growing number of female dwarves who do express their feminine side though (but they still have beards). Also it's worth noting that dwarves are very stereotypically dwarf like. They all wear chainmail, wear helmets and carry axes and are naturally gifted at mining , blacksmithing, and really most crafts.

A few other notable things is that the dwarves also use bread as weaponry and rats form a good chunk of their diet (often with ketchup). Their ruler is the Low King.

Humans -
Nothing to say here really. Standard humans from standard fantasy settings. Commonplace and unremarkable.

Nobby Nobbs -
Not even his own mother is sure what species Nobby is.

Overview of magic on the Discworld:

There are two main groups of magic users on the disc: Witches and Wizards. It's important to note that a Witch is not simply a female Wizard and vice versa. They both embody two rather different philosophies.

Wizards are of the bumbling bearded, robed, and most importantly pointy hatted (a wizards pointy hat is very important to them) variety. The kind of magic they use is typically of the flashy variety, that's if they bother to do any at all. Most wizards are slovenly academics who shirk their responsibilities at every opportunity and love big dinners. They're also celibate. Most Wizards can be found in Ankh-Morporks Unseen University (which despite it's name is quite visible). They also have the worlds closest thing to a computer.

Witches are almost the opposite though. They're loners (a group of witches is referred to as an "argument"), hard working (generally) and rarely use magic. Most of their power comes from being very intelligent and strong willed. They tend to employ psychology, medicine and elbow grease before magic. Witches can be quite complex to explain but generally speaking they tend not to use magic trivially. They're more likely to get on their knees and scrub a floor than enchant a mop to do it for them. They're often very community focused as well and each witch has an area which they watch over. They often do fulfil the duties of a midwife, a carer, doctor, and sometimes even law enforcement often all at the same time.

Witches are respected for the most part but are generally treated as outsiders as there's usually a certain degree of fear mixed with the respect.

Overview of Fauna:

Discworld has mostly the standard Fauna of cats/dogs/rats etc. There's a few quirkier examples but no real notable exceptions except for the swamp dragons. Swamp dragons are small fire breathing critters not really comparable to their majestic cousins. Due to the chemicals they use to brew flame they're also prone to exploding. Some people keep them as pets and breed them, aside from the flame and the explosions they're not particularly dangerous.

Real dragons are sort of extinct. They exist in a pocket dimension somewhere.

Overview of Geography:

Most places on the Disc are expys for real world countries. For example Quirm is France. However the place you'll most likely end up in is Ankh-Morpork. Which if I had to say is probably closest to being an expy of old London. It's currency is the Ankh-Morpork dollar. You really shouldn't go to the shades. It's ruled over by a benevolent tyrant called the Patrician (name of Vetinari). It's a cultural melting pot with examples of all races.

Really though you should go read the books or a wiki or something. There's just too much to brief you on. It's worth looking up Ankh-Morpork in particular though as even if you don't start there it's inevitable you'll end up there.

Socratov
2012-02-24, 02:29 PM
in addition, do read up on the unseen university, the drum/mended drum/broken/drum/etc. and remeber to stay away from the shades...

tyckspoon
2012-02-24, 03:11 PM
Discworld wizards are reasonably close to vancian mechanics

Depends on where in the books you are. Very early Discworld (definitely Color of Magic/Light Fantastic, still around up to early Guards books and Sourcerer) was much more of a deliberate and somewhat heavy-handed fantasy parody, so the Wizards use Vancian-style magic because they are directly sourced from Vance's magic (or possibly Vance-by-way-of-D&D, although I don't think Pratchett was all that familiar with D&D.) Later books suggest more of a mana-based system or just molding ambient magic into whatever magical effects you're familiar with, and lately even when the wizards show up they rarely do on-page magic at all.

@thread topic:
There is one really significant thing you'll want to ask your GM about and find out if he's including it and how: Discworld magic is *dangerous*. Unseen University has a dumping ground called the Unreal Estate where the results of random magic experiments get pitched, and it's basically like wandering through Alice in Wonderland. There's the Warhammerish-concept of the Dungeon Dimensions and the Things living there, which can be attracted to reality by unwise acts of magic. Certain kinds of magic will just flat out kill the user (telekinesis, for example, has been described as effecting an equal-and-opposite force on the user- if you want to lift a boulder with your mind, you'd better have your mind braced on something really sturdy.) The whole point of Unseen University is to create an environment where wizards feel the need to do magic as little as possible (and to turn bright-eyed and excited students who want to do magic *all the time* into fat and mostly useless Wizards) to minimize the risks, and Witches use magic as a last resort because it's less reliable and often less effective than doing it the 'hard' and physical way. (Except at the witch festivals, where they have a competition for who can do the best magic trick. Because witches believe rules are both Important and For Other People.)

Aidan305
2012-02-24, 03:31 PM
Real dragons are sort of extinct. They exist in a pocket dimension somewhere.

To be specific, they dwell in the collective imagination of life on the Disc.

Arbane
2012-02-24, 03:32 PM
OP: I _do_ recommend reading the books. They're good.


I've played a Discworld game in 3.5- it seems like the best system if you remove the bits that don't fit.

My knowledge of systems is a little limited but what would you recommend?


For the later books at least, I'd go for a system where people are a bit more 'equal', possibly GURPS or FATE. If you want to go more rules-light, RISUS might work well - comedy game, meet comedy setting. (Plus, it's free.)


Someone quite a long time ago suggested an older version of the Warhammer RPG - magic is dangerous and usually a bad idea, violence can get you killed, and there's a BIG differential between people who can fight and those who can't. Sounded about right...


(or possibly Vance-by-way-of-D&D, although I don't think Pratchett was all that familiar with D&D.)

I believe PTerry _does_ know D&D. I seem to remember reading somewhere that The Luggage (a chest on many legs who follows Rincewind around) was based on a treasure from a tabletop game he was in.

Rejusu
2012-02-25, 11:13 AM
Depends on where in the books you are. Very early Discworld (definitely Color of Magic/Light Fantastic, still around up to early Guards books and Sourcerer) was much more of a deliberate and somewhat heavy-handed fantasy parody, so the Wizards use Vancian-style magic because they are directly sourced from Vance's magic (or possibly Vance-by-way-of-D&D, although I don't think Pratchett was all that familiar with D&D.) Later books suggest more of a mana-based system or just molding ambient magic into whatever magical effects you're familiar with, and lately even when the wizards show up they rarely do on-page magic at all.

@thread topic:
There is one really significant thing you'll want to ask your GM about and find out if he's including it and how: Discworld magic is *dangerous*. Unseen University has a dumping ground called the Unreal Estate where the results of random magic experiments get pitched, and it's basically like wandering through Alice in Wonderland. There's the Warhammerish-concept of the Dungeon Dimensions and the Things living there, which can be attracted to reality by unwise acts of magic. Certain kinds of magic will just flat out kill the user (telekinesis, for example, has been described as effecting an equal-and-opposite force on the user- if you want to lift a boulder with your mind, you'd better have your mind braced on something really sturdy.) The whole point of Unseen University is to create an environment where wizards feel the need to do magic as little as possible (and to turn bright-eyed and excited students who want to do magic *all the time* into fat and mostly useless Wizards) to minimize the risks, and Witches use magic as a last resort because it's less reliable and often less effective than doing it the 'hard' and physical way. (Except at the witch festivals, where they have a competition for who can do the best magic trick. Because witches believe rules are both Important and For Other People.)

Plus Witches are smart enough to know that psychology (well headology) can be more powerful than magic. Like wizards witches value their pointy hats, but primarily because of the symbolism of it and the authority it grants.

But yeah probably the reason you don't see wizards doing much magic is because of how dangerous it is. But wizards often lack common sense and love to show off, so when they do magic they do it flashily. Still the main reason they don't do much magic is probably due to laziness more than anything. They have more interest in their next meal than magic as a general rule.

In this respect I'd see wizard as being fun to roleplay in a Discworld setting.

While we're discussing systems it's worth noting there's an official Discworld RPG powered by Gurps and done by Steve Jackson games. It's about 10 years old though so it'll be missing additions from the later books. But to be honest it's only missing 10 years of material as opposed to all the other suggested systems which technically lack all the setting material. Though really considering the DW novels of the past ten years it shouldn't actually be missing that much anyway.

Still I can't see 3.5 working very well. Power levels in D&D tend to range from mundane (commonfolk), above average (Carrot, Moist, Rincewind), special (Witches, Wizards, Susan, History Monks, Vetinari and most recently Vimes), and then godlike (the gods obviously, dragons, sourcerers, Death, Auditors, Lonsang Ludd). With almost nothing in between the last two.

Though honestly that's just a rough estimate of relative power (and note it's not just combat potential) but even then it's not really a good thing to go on. Discworld books are generally good because they're about down to earth characters stuck in fantastical situations. Rincewind, a failed wizard whose most notable skill is running away real fast manages to defeat one of the most powerful entities on the Disc at the time (a Sourcerer, and yes in this context it's spelled courrectly) with a half-brick inna sock. Similarly a teenage girl managed to defeat the queen of the elves with a frying pan.

It's actually one of the few worlds that puts magic users and regular people on fairly even footing. While a lot of problems do require quite fantastical solutions some things are just solved by good old fashioned violence.

Eldan
2012-02-25, 01:40 PM
And the gods are quite a bit afraid of a group of old men with fur clothing, swords and a sled full of explosives. (Okay, admittedly, they are 80 year old barbarian Sword&Sorcery heroes, but still).

Because in the context of the disc, a lone hero going against the gods will win.

Many of the discworld stories, more the earlier you go back, are about narrative causality. The disc is based on stories, and people's conception of stories. An old hero with his trusty sword will defeat the gods. A single, brave, unarmed watchman interposing himself between a horde of said bloodthirsty heroes and the gods can not be defeated. Taking a ridiculous risk in a heroic fashion means you are almost guaranteed to win. Evil sorcerers and their skeletal minions always escape just in time from the collapsing temple, but the hero always gets the treasure and the girl.

Daer
2012-02-25, 01:45 PM
If i remember right the wizards also are in constant fear of getting assassinated by other wizards so they spend their magic to protect themselves from magical attacks, which might explain why they cast so little spells otherwise too.

And proverbs are lot more literal. if you want something to work you usually best get your chances to 1 against million .

Eldan
2012-02-25, 01:47 PM
Especially in Ankh-Morpork, where the law can require you to prove any proverbs you use. Better never mention "The Feather is mightier than the Sword" again, unless you want to end up as the only gladiator armed only with a goose feather.

Socratov
2012-02-25, 03:07 PM
And the gods are quite a bit afraid of a group of old men with fur clothing, swords and a sled full of explosives. (Okay, admittedly, they are 80 year old barbarian Sword&Sorcery heroes, but still).

Because in the context of the disc, a lone hero going against the gods will win.

Many of the discworld stories, more the earlier you go back, are about narrative causality. The disc is based on stories, and people's conception of stories. An old hero with his trusty sword will defeat the gods. A single, brave, unarmed watchman interposing himself between a horde of said bloodthirsty heroes and the gods can not be defeated. Taking a ridiculous risk in a heroic fashion means you are almost guaranteed to win. Evil sorcerers and their skeletal minions always escape just in time from the collapsing temple, but the hero always gets the treasure and the girl.

This is actually explaind logically in the fact that a lone hero can just swing about in fury without the need to look where he is swinging while the side with the numbers will need to coordinate their attacks and defences, oh, and by the way, whatever you do, don't mention/pray to/think about/whatever The Lady (the Discs goddess of luck), she has a tendencies to abandon you when you need her the most and call her... do not tempt fate either, he will give you what you asked for, but not what you wanted... last piece of Discworld wisdom: appearances can be deceiving, but most of the time are there for a reason

Arbane
2012-02-25, 05:18 PM
If i remember right the wizards also are in constant fear of getting assassinated by other wizards so they spend their magic to protect themselves from magical attacks, which might explain why they cast so little spells otherwise too.

In the earlier books, yes. Not so much in the later ones.

Eldan
2012-02-25, 05:32 PM
This is actually explaind logically in the fact that a lone hero can just swing about in fury without the need to look where he is swinging while the side with the numbers will need to coordinate their attacks and defences.

Also, once you he killed the first 500 or so, the rest will get tired climbing the mountain of corpses.

Kaun
2012-02-26, 06:03 PM
I've played a Discworld game in 3.5- it seems like the best system if you remove the bits that don't fit.

I say this because Discworld is generally combat light and magic is often random and unreliable, these two fundamentals are in opposition of what 3.5 is to a certain extent. I'm not saying you couldn't run a good Discworld game with 3.5 it would just be like digging a grave with a fork, albeit possible but maybe not the best tool for the job.


My knowledge of systems is a little limited but what would you recommend?


Ehhh i would look for something rules light personally, you want the game to move fast and avoid being bogged down by to much crunch. I think the game should be built around a modified version of "the rule of cool" which i will call the "Rule of Terry".

I have the old Discworld source book for gurps and i love it and have run games with it but i found it a little to rules heavy for Discworld, the game just really didn't need all the that crunch.

WoD might work well or Savage worlds, just keep it simple and try and work things on the fly.

Play it like paranoia to a certain extent, don't let your players get hung up on what the rules say they can and can't do. Work with there ideas and see what happens.

Eldan
2012-02-26, 08:11 PM
Some kind of FATE, maybe? That's certainly light enough, and tropery is built in.

pffh
2012-02-26, 08:25 PM
Especially in Ankh-Morpork, where the law can require you to prove any proverbs you use. Better never mention "The Feather is mightier than the Sword" again, unless you want to end up as the only gladiator armed only with a goose feather.

Speaking of Ankh-Morpork. If you go there be very careful about where you go and who you associate with, it's real easy to commit suicide in the big city.

Arbane
2012-02-26, 10:51 PM
Speaking of Ankh-Morpork. If you go there be very careful about where you go and who you associate with, it's real easy to commit suicide in the big city.

Conversely, talking your way out of trouble can be very effective.

Eldan
2012-02-27, 09:35 AM
Also, this, since someone linked it in a different thread:

http://www.toplessrobot.com/18-death.jpg

It's DEATH killing the concept of rock music.

The Glyphstone
2012-02-27, 01:45 PM
This is actually explaind logically in the fact that a lone hero can just swing about in fury without the need to look where he is swinging while the side with the numbers will need to coordinate their attacks and defences, oh, and by the way, whatever you do, don't mention/pray to/think about/whatever The Lady (the Discs goddess of luck), she has a tendencies to abandon you when you need her the most and call her... do not tempt fate either, he will give you what you asked for, but not what you wanted... last piece of Discworld wisdom: appearances can be deceiving, but most of the time are there for a reason

You forgot the most important rule: Do not act incautiously when confronting little bald wrinkly smiling men.

pffh
2012-02-27, 08:02 PM
You forgot the most important rule: Do not act incautiously when confronting little bald wrinkly smiling men.

What about old women that drink your booze and sing rude songs at you? I'd take my chances against the history monks any day over going against her and certain other old woman (that is most certainly not a word that ends in ag).

Tiki Snakes
2012-02-27, 08:19 PM
Yeah, generally speaking it's a pretty good idea to be unfailingly polite in the discworld. It's not always necessary, but it's pretty rare that manners get you into trouble and the reverse is true rather often.

Starscream
2012-02-27, 08:37 PM
Everyone above seems to have covered the important stuff, so I'll just agree with them.

In particular, I agree with this: don't try to be funny.

Discworld is hilarious, but not to the people who live there. Characters like Vimes and Granny and even Rincewind are perfectly serious. It's not funny to them.

The humor mostly comes from the tone, the strangeness of the setting (while still bearing an uncanny resemblance to real life), and the fact the the characters are usually genre savvy enough to know (at least on some level) that they are in a story and that things will happen in accordance with narrative laws.

They just don't know that it's a comedy story. So don't spend your time yukking it up, try to create a character that would seem perfectly serious in a more serious world, and let the absurdity of the situation provide the humor by pretending it isn't absurd.

Eldan
2012-02-27, 08:54 PM
Yeah, generally speaking it's a pretty good idea to be unfailingly polite in the discworld. It's not always necessary, but it's pretty rare that manners get you into trouble and the reverse is true rather often.

Also, learn how to scream in pain in various languages. It helps.

Socratov
2012-02-28, 03:26 AM
Oh, and by the way, language can be used as a weapon and yes, there is an assassin for that (which would be the benevolent tyrant Havelock
Vetinary, ex member of the Assassin's guild, he gradauated on using language a s a weapon, beware).

If you have been naughty, don't run away from the watch, just walk away calmly and self assured, so the watch won't chase you, bonus point when you make someone else run.