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emcoyote
2012-02-25, 03:32 AM
I'm brand new to posting so please be gentle :smallsmile:

Greetings all,

I'm an old time 2nd ed. AD&D guy who recently began playing in a couple of 3.5 campaigns. After much reading of books to get an idea of how things worked and a couple short run gaming groups I settled into a nice relaxed group of people and am trying my hand at a warforged artificer. It's a work in progress to be sure but I try to read the various handbooks, optimized builds, general questions etc. on the class to broaden my understanding of the class and rules in general. This has led me down many a merry rabbit hole of discovery so to speak. :smallsmile:

All of that leads to my actual questions. While wandering cyberspace I ran into this thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221155

and became sort of interested / confused. I spent a couple hours trying to search but came up empty - which may point more to me being blind as a bat and about as smart as one rather than an actual lack of information.

my questions are:

What fighter feat were they talking about that gives an action point?
And what was the thing about "trading" feats using heroics?

From what I read about the spell mentioned it lets you temporarily gain a bonus fighter feat but it didn't seem to require giving up a feat although as I said I'm still very new and easily could have missed it. Was there something else I was missing that allows artificers to do this? The campaign I'm in is very low level so not many options are open yet but I'm always looking out for future ideas :biggrin:

hymer
2012-02-25, 04:46 AM
2: I know that 'Heroics' is a sor/wiz spell from Spell Compendium (p. 113) that allows you temporary access to a fighter bonus feat.

Alienist
2012-02-25, 05:35 AM
Yes, everyone knows about heroics.

But that is only part of the equation, which fighter feat gives the action point?

hymer
2012-02-25, 06:51 AM
Sorry, Alienist. I didn't mean to be offensive.

@ OP: Maybe someone has that trick mixed up with just casting Unfettered Heroism (Races of Eberron p. 190)? There's only one feat I know of which grants real action points, and it's not a fighter bonus feat (Heroic Spirit, ECS p. 55). And then the sorta-bonus-action point once a day, Heroic Destiny (Races of Destiny p. 152). Could be someone thought one of them was a fighter bonus feat?
Unless someone knows more?

TroubleBrewing
2012-02-25, 07:04 AM
It would appear that this mysterious bonus feat may not exist. So far, nobody in the other thread has been able to locate it.

Alienist
2012-02-25, 10:33 AM
The trading feats is probably something like chaos shuffle.

I'm not sure how it works, but the idea is you perform a ceremony, pledge allegiance to the far realm etc. Then you get to exchange one of your feats for another. The idea being that you turn a temporary feat into a permanent feat.

With unlimited chaos shuffles you could easily get unlimited action points, simply by taking the feat that gives you 3 extra action points, use them up, shuffle for something else, e.g. toughness, then shuffle back to a brand new extra action points feat. Tada!

Wings of Peace
2012-02-25, 08:08 PM
The trading feats is probably something like chaos shuffle.

I'm not sure how it works, but the idea is you perform a ceremony, pledge allegiance to the far realm etc. Then you get to exchange one of your feats for another. The idea being that you turn a temporary feat into a permanent feat.

With unlimited chaos shuffles you could easily get unlimited action points, simply by taking the feat that gives you 3 extra action points, use them up, shuffle for something else, e.g. toughness, then shuffle back to a brand new extra action points feat. Tada!

What does casting Shun/Embrace the Dark Chaos to change your feats around have to do with the Far Realm? :smallconfused:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-26, 01:32 AM
What does casting Shun/Embrace the Dark Chaos to change your feats around have to do with the Far Realm? :smallconfused:

I believe he's referring to Elder Evils, not the Far Realm. Devoting yourself to an Elder Evil nets you 5 bonus feats (1 at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th), which you can then Chaos Shuffle out to feats of your choice. If you want to be even cheesier, you could then swear allegiance to a different Elder Evil for a different set of 5 feats, shuffle those away, and repeat.

Big Fau
2012-02-26, 01:54 AM
It's actually a spell that grants action points (Heroism).

Flickerdart
2012-02-26, 02:04 AM
It's actually a spell that grants action points (Heroism).
Heroism doesn't grant action points. Unfettered Heroism does. Regular, fettered Heroism just grants a Fighter feat.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-26, 02:19 AM
Heroism doesn't grant action points. Unfettered Heroism does. Regular, fettered Heroism just grants a Fighter feat.

You mean heroics grants a fighter bonus feat. Heroism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroism.htm) grants +2 morale to attacks, saves, and checks.

Flickerdart
2012-02-26, 02:44 AM
Yes. That is the thing which I mean.

Wings of Peace
2012-02-26, 10:24 AM
It's actually a spell that grants action points (Heroism).

I hate you Fau. I spent an hour going through my Eberron books thinking "This sounds even better than Unfettered Heroism!"

Edit: What happens if a Psionic Artificer and his Item Familiar both have Affinity Field and Unfettered Heroism themselves? Madness? :smallsmile: