Metamagic, Reserve Feats, and Meteor Swarm

[zoobob9]

I have two topics to talk about.

The first, a simple RAW: Can you apply metamagic to reserve feats, and if so what are the rules?

The second, and more interesting, especially if you're playing a blaster, is as follows.

Meteor Swarm is, as far as I know, the greatest damage dealing spell in the game that doesn't involve anything besides the caster (such as spells that summon powerful creatures, et cetera). Of course Energy drain can be more devastating through negative levels, but as far as raw damage, Meteor Swarm Trumps all.

As the party blaster, and a sorcerer, I've been looking into ways to optimize the use of this spell. My character as it is is unable to do this, but in another campaign, I may create this build.

For a sorcerer at least, this is the idea:

Take the sorcerer variant "Metamagic Specialist" from Player's Handbook 2 at first level if you're a sorcerer. If you are a wizard, then don't worry. Spell Focus (Evocation) [Player's Handbook], Explosive Spell [Complete Arcane], Metamagic School Focus (Evocation) [Complete Mage], Residual Metamagic [Complete Mage], Arcane Thesis (Meteor Swarm) [Player's Handbook 2], Empower Spell [Player's Handbook] and Sudden Maximize [Complete Arcane] are the feats that I believe are necessary. Use Sudden Maximize on Meteor Swarm, and then make it either Explosive or Empowered, whichever is the most beneficial to the situation. Sudden maximize doesn't increase the spell level, and Explosive and Empower only raise it by two levels. Those two levels are negated by Metamagic School Focus (Evocation) and Arcane Thesis (Meteor Swarm). The next turn, use the Lingering Metamagic from Residual Metamagic to repeat Sudden Maximize, then add Empower/Explosive again. This can only happen once a day, but two Maximized, Empowered Meteor Swarms do a total of 576 damage in 12 seconds.

My three questions about this idea:

Is there something in RAW that I overlooked?
Is this the easiest way to do this?
What other feats would you take for this if given the option? (From Human and Flaws, or from Wizard Bonus Feats)

[Flickerdart]

You may not apply metamagic to reserve feats. They are not spells, have no spell level, do not use slots and so forth. In fact I think they're Supernatural abilities, so you can't even use Quicken SLA and friends on them.

Meteor Swarm is terrible for raw damage. Most blaster builds use Orbs of Sound or Force. 576 damage over two rounds once per day? At level 20, doing under 300 damage a round is mediocre. The Mailman can put out thousands of damage per round, no spell resistance allowed.

[SaintRidley]

You may not apply metamagic to reserve feats. They are not spells, have no spell level, do not use slots and so forth. In fact I think they're Supernatural abilities, so you can't even use Quicken SLA and friends on them.

Meteor Swarm is terrible for raw damage. Most blaster builds use Orbs of Sound or Force. 576 damage over two rounds once per day? At level 20, doing under 300 damage a round is mediocre. The Mailman can put out thousands of damage per round, no spell resistance allowed.



You also don't come online until level 17 if you're making a build around using Meteor Swarm.


Seriously, Zoob, I'd rethink things a little if you're building an evoker type off one level 9 spell.

[zoobob9]

You also don't come online until level 17 if you're making a build around using Meteor Swarm.


Seriously, Zoob, I'd rethink things a little if you're building an evoker type off one level 9 spell.

The process can be applied to spells at any level. Fireballs, Chain Lightning, Cone of Cold, it can still work. Those could potentially be more effective, since you can apply metamagic with a higher level adjustment than 2. And due to a unique way my DM does prestige classes, my character could do this with fireball at level 14 at the earliest, if the right prestige class was chosen and with flaws and Human feats. A wizard could at 13.

[jaybird]

*cracks knuckles*

Alright...here the question is: do you want to play the most powerful blaster possible, or do you want to play a area of effect fire and lightning blaster? If the first, go to the Mailman.

If the second...look no further.

Take all 5 levels of War Mage from Age of Mortals, for 2 metamagic feats, a Cha-based buff aura, and most important of all, +3 damage per dice. Take Fiery Spell and Scorching Spell (Sandstorm) for +1 and +3 damage per dice respectively. We're at +7 damage/dice for all our [Fire] spells, for 10d6+70 at level 10 on a Fireball. Pick up Searing Spell (Sandstorm) to bypass fire immunity and halve fire resistance. With Arcane Thesis, we're at a total of a 5th level spell. Add Empower Spell to make that a 5th level spell dealing 15d6+105. Stack some other metamagic reducers (Easy Metamagic is nice) and you can easily bring that down to a 3rd level spell slot.

If Pathfinder is available, take Dragon-blooded Sorcerer for another +1 per dice, as well as Intensify Spell for an extra 5d6 dice cap and Persistent Spell to make an enemy save twice take the worst result. Once you're level 15, get Spell Perfection - it lets you apply ANY metamagic for free (Quicken?) and DOUBLES all numerical modifiers from feats - that +4 from Fiery/Scorching just became a +8.

With Pathfinder material: 22d6+264, ignores fire immunity, halves fire resistance, enemies save twice take the lowest, 5th level spell (IIRC Intensify and Persistent are both +1 metamagics) with Arcane Thesis alone. Easy Metamagic Empower and Scorching to drop your tac-nuke to a 3rd level slot.

Total feat requirement:
Eschew Materials/Combat Casting (War Mage prereq)
Fiery/Searing/Scorching Spell (from Sandstorm)
Arcane Thesis/Easy Metamagic Empower/Easy Metamagic Searing
Empower Spell/Quicken Spell (from War Mage)
Intensify Spell
Spell Specialization/Spell Perfection
Persistent Spell
Total feat requirement: 11

You may want to play a Human to pull off this combo :smallamused:

[Thespianus]

I can't find "Scorching Spell" in Sandstorm. There's Searing Spell that bypases fire resistance, and Fiery Spell that gives you +1 for each damage die, but no Scorching Spell.

I do find Scorching Spell on the DnDWiki, but no reference to where it comes from. Is it an official Feat?

[tyckspoon]

I can't find "Scorching Spell" in Sandstorm. There's Searing Spell that bypases fire resistance, and Fiery Spell that gives you +1 for each damage die, but no Scorching Spell.

I do find Scorching Spell on the DnDWiki, but no reference to where it comes from. Is it an official Feat?

Wizard's Feat Index says no- 'Scorching' is not a part of the name of any logged feat.

[Ast]

Meteor Swarm is terrible for raw damage. Most blaster builds use Orbs of Sound or Force. 576 damage over two rounds once per day? At level 20, doing under 300 damage a round is mediocre. The Mailman can put out thousands of damage per round, no spell resistance allowed.

I realize this is true and that wizard's damage output is staggering at this level, but does someone actually PLAY such a Mailman? I mean, how much of theoretical optimization is usually allowed?

If someone came up to my table with a 21-24 level wizard doing thousands of damage per round I would ask him massive amount of questions this kind of power would mean to the surrounding world. For instance, I run a 25 level campaign right now (Forgotten Realms) and one of my players made a damage output monster. Probably not the best he could have but still — being capable of soloing Thazzar in two rounds seemed a little excessive. Since the player wrote in his history that he helped the elves with reclaiming Myth Drannor, I asked him plainly: why didn't he do it himself? With that kind of continuous damage per round he coud've wiped the city and the surrounding forrest clear.

That is why in another campaign I play 28th level wizard and the most damaging spell I have is twinned empowered delayed blast fireball / orb of x. Because when you do thousands of damage the only thing a DM can do against you is either nullify this to zero (not fun) or throw at you someone who also does thousands of damage (definately not fun). The latter also destroys the world setting, especially in FR.

[peacenlove]

That is why in another campaign I play 28th level wizard and the most damaging spell I have is twinned empowered delayed blast fireball / orb of x. Because when you do thousands of damage the only thing a DM can do against you is either nullify this to zero (not fun) or throw at you someone who also does thousands of damage (definately not fun). The latter also destroys the world setting, especially in FR.

A 45th level elder brain archwizard doesn't destroy it? Or a city jammed with epic level mages (City of shade)?
Also a 28th level mage calls cthulu and his family for tea and cookies as a swift action, doesn't bother with damage. Leave that to the chargers / hulking throwers.

Mailman builds can be blocked with (improved) mettle or the combination of total cover + true seeing immunity, 2 things easily achievable in epic. There are other methods, I am sure more optimization minded persons here can provide if asked.

[Wings of Peace]

*cracks knuckles*

Alright...here the question is: do you want to play the most powerful blaster possible, or do you want to play a area of effect fire and lightning blaster? If the first, go to the Mailman.

If the second...look no further.

Take all 5 levels of War Mage from Age of Mortals, for 2 metamagic feats, a Cha-based buff aura, and most important of all, +3 damage per dice. Take Fiery Spell and Scorching Spell (Sandstorm) for +1 and +3 damage per dice respectively. We're at +7 damage/dice for all our [Fire] spells, for 10d6+70 at level 10 on a Fireball. Pick up Searing Spell (Sandstorm) to bypass fire immunity and halve fire resistance. With Arcane Thesis, we're at a total of a 5th level spell. Add Empower Spell to make that a 5th level spell dealing 15d6+105. Stack some other metamagic reducers (Easy Metamagic is nice) and you can easily bring that down to a 3rd level spell slot.

If Pathfinder is available, take Dragon-blooded Sorcerer for another +1 per dice, as well as Intensify Spell for an extra 5d6 dice cap and Persistent Spell to make an enemy save twice take the worst result. Once you're level 15, get Spell Perfection - it lets you apply ANY metamagic for free (Quicken?) and DOUBLES all numerical modifiers from feats - that +4 from Fiery/Scorching just became a +8.

With Pathfinder material: 22d6+264, ignores fire immunity, halves fire resistance, enemies save twice take the lowest, 5th level spell (IIRC Intensify and Persistent are both +1 metamagics) with Arcane Thesis alone. Easy Metamagic Empower and Scorching to drop your tac-nuke to a 3rd level slot.

Total feat requirement:
Eschew Materials/Combat Casting (War Mage prereq)
Fiery/Searing/Scorching Spell (from Sandstorm)
Arcane Thesis/Easy Metamagic Empower/Easy Metamagic Searing
Empower Spell/Quicken Spell (from War Mage)
Intensify Spell
Spell Specialization/Spell Perfection
Persistent Spell
Total feat requirement: 11

You may want to play a Human to pull off this combo :smallamused:

He'd do Better going Wizard/Ardent/MindMage and using his PP pool to nerf all metamagic down to no cost. Alternatively, Silverbrow Human would be a decent option since then he can take levels in Halruaan Elder as well as spend feats on Practical Metamagic.