[Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land

[radmelon]

Yes, I was just pointing out that owls often symbolize wisdom, but you're right. It could be any number of things, including perception, or even the ability to eat mice whole.:smalltongue: I was just stating my immediate impressions from the hints.

[SamBurke]

Yes, I was just pointing out that owls often symbolize wisdom, but you're right. It could be any number of things, including perception, or even the ability to eat mice whole.:smalltongue: I was just stating my immediate impressions from the hints.

I was sacrificing sanity for the sake of humor. Oh well.

[radmelon]

I was sacrificing sanity for the sake of humor. Oh well.

Oh. Right. And that's the problem with text as a medium for a conversation. Sarcasm and humour aren't always easily apparent. :smallsigh:

[Elfstone]

Oh. Right. And that's the problem with text as a medium for a conversation. Sarcasm and humour aren't always easily apparent. :smallsigh:

Well its too bad that we can't change the color of text or anything like that to indicate it.

I think its obvious that Sam has seen Princess Bride. Lets hope that Welknair has as well and that either way, the owl clue is tied to wisdom or knowledge.

[Welknair]

I think its obvious that Sam has seen Princess Bride. Lets hope that Welknair has as well.

I've spent the last ten years of my life building up a resistance to overused tropes.

[SamBurke]

...

http://mclean.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/neutral-feel-like-a-sir-clean-l.png

Ha! But I've won! I switched glasses while you weren't looking, and the glass with overused tropes is clearly in front of you!

@Elfstone, Why did I not think of that?

[Welknair]

I think I've finally wrapped my head around Nomic. This things is beautiful. How have I not heard of it before? I can easily see how it could be adapted with Risus into a TT RPG, and very much look forward to seeing what Amechra comes up with.

[Xechon]

I've found Risus: the anything game, but I cannot seem to find Nomic. Can someone link it for me (PDF if possible, please)?

[Fako]

I've found Risus: the anything game, but I cannot seem to find Nomic. Can someone link it for me (PDF if possible, please)?

http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm#intro

Didn't see a pdf version, but here are the basic rules I could find for it.

On topic: This is looking amazing, Welknair! I've been enjoying every page of this thread so far, and looking forward to more.

[Welknair]

On topic: This is looking amazing, Welknair! I've been enjoying every page of this thread so far, and looking forward to more.

That's very good to hear! With any luck it won't be long before I have a first draft copyrighted so people can start PEACHing! I try to keep the thread interesting for the followers of it while I work on the actual game. It's nice to know that it's working!

I also happen to be good friends with, as I said prior, a couple people very skilled in web design (Where I only have passing knowledge), and I plan to set up a proper website very soon. Said website maaaay include a donation or kickstarter link at some later time. I'm 90% sure that'd be okay.

[Welknair]

UPDATE TEIM:

1. I think I'm going with Lulu Press. It'll allow me to publish both paper and electronic copies of my work, for free, and allow said copies to be available through a number of other venues, such as Amazon and iBooks.

2. Still doing some work on the Alchemies/Crafting system.

3. I'm about ready to start typing up the first draft!

4. I updated the OP so its friendlier to new people wanting to take a look, and actually says some stuff about the game.

[SamBurke]

Awesome! Can't wait!

[Welknair]

We're approaching the Big 4 soon... 4,444 views. Contemplating how I should mark the occasion, given that I just gave a bunch of really overt hints for the 4k mark. I really should have waited till the Big 4. Hmmm

[TravelLog]

Give out four times the hints?

[Story Time]

...that was going to be my suggestion, but I'm concerned that if Welknair gives out too many hints the impact of the manual might be lessened to those who read the final draft. ...to the members of this thread, at least?

[Welknair]

4,444 VIEWS!!!!

In celebration, I bring you this news: THE WRITING HAS BEGUN.

[Fako]

In celebration, I bring you this news: THE WRITING HAS BEGUN.

Congrats :smallbiggrin: Question: Will the initial draft include enough rules for a playtest, or will that be reserved for the game you're setting up with the initial group from this thread?

[Welknair]

Congrats :smallbiggrin: Question: Will the initial draft include enough rules for a playtest, or will that be reserved for the game you're setting up with the initial group from this thread?

The first draft is intended to include enough in order to play at least a basic version of the game. The initial playtest indeed will just be for the original followers of this thread, but I may later open up said first draft for others to playtest. That's a bit in the future though, so I'm not guaranteeing anything.

Edit: When you read through RPG books, how often do you really pay attention to them? As in, the way that they're set up? What they say? How they say it? It's a very peculiar experience being on the other end of that.

*Slowly figuring out how to write an intro to Tabletop RPGs*

[Fako]

The first draft is intended to include enough in order to play at least a basic version of the game. The initial playtest indeed will just be for the original followers of this thread, but I may later open up said first draft for others to playtest. That's a bit in the future though, so I'm not guaranteeing anything.

Understandable, and I hope the first playtest goes well.


Edit: When you read through RPG books, how often do you really pay attention to them? As in, the way that they're set up? What they say? How they say it? It's a very peculiar experience being on the other end of that.

The RPG books I've read seem to be set up with the players in mind, so they flow from introductory fluff to character creation, and then to items that the ST/DM/GM will need. I personally use the first chapter to get an idea for the tone that the game will convey, which I find is helpful for world building.
Normally, I am the one who collects all the rules for the games we play, with the rest of the group picking up as we go along. Because of that, I prefer books that have clear cut information on how mechanics work, rather than mixing it with fluff. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the descriptions of how abilities/rules work in the world... I just don't want to have to fish through a paragraph or two to find the exact mechanics of an ability (ex: Exalted).

[Welknair]

The RPG books I've read seem to be set up with the players in mind, so they flow from introductory fluff to character creation, and then to items that the ST/DM/GM will need. I personally use the first chapter to get an idea for the tone that the game will convey, which I find is helpful for world building.
Normally, I am the one who collects all the rules for the games we play, with the rest of the group picking up as we go along. Because of that, I prefer books that have clear cut information on how mechanics work, rather than mixing it with fluff. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the descriptions of how abilities/rules work in the world... I just don't want to have to fish through a paragraph or two to find the exact mechanics of an ability (ex: Exalted).

I agree very much here. There's something I talk about, called the "Hello World" test. It's usually applied to various coding languages and is the measure of how long it takes someone to learn how to make a simple program that outputs "Hello World!" once. If you need to read through entire manuals which are hundreds of pages long to do such a simple function, it fails the test. Similarly, I believe that people picking up a game for the first time should be able to dive right into it, without having to first read and reread the entire darn thing. Deathwatch, I'm looking at you.

Additionally, I am very much aware of the importance of those first few pages. The intro is extremely important in grabbing the attentions of would-be players and GMs. I'm doing my best to make the intro as engaging and up-front as possible.

That reminds me! Why do games so often have their mechanics bound up in fluff, like you said? Even the core mechanics, often. These things should be in a clear, concise format for easy learning. I have the majority of my game written on sheets of notebook paper at this point, and the main mechanics occupy less than two such pages. Why should i need to read a hundred pages to learn what I could have in two? Of course content, context, and examples are important. But still, I think that game makers could afford to be a little more clear with the way things work.

[Amechra]

Don't worry; Risunomics should be able to fit on two sheets of paper, at the most. If I want to make the text large enough to be legible, that is.

:smallcool:

[Fako]

I agree very much here. There's something I talk about, called the "Hello World" test. It's usually applied to various coding languages and is the measure of how long it takes someone to learn how to make a simple program that outputs "Hello World!" once. If you need to read through entire manuals which are hundreds of pages long to do such a simple function, it fails the test. Similarly, I believe that people picking up a game for the first time should be able to dive right into it, without having to first read and reread the entire darn thing. Deathwatch, I'm looking at you.

I haven't seen Deathwatch myself, but I am well acquainted with the Hello World! test. One of the things I am most looking forward to is your Progressive Start idea - normally our games start with me moving from player to player for a few hours, helping them fill out their character sheets... a change from that will be nice.


That reminds me! Why do games so often have their mechanics bound up in fluff, like you said? Even the core mechanics, often. These things should be in a clear, concise format for easy learning. I have the majority of my game written on sheets of notebook paper at this point, and the main mechanics occupy less than two such pages. Why should i need to read a hundred pages to learn what I could have in two? Of course content, context, and examples are important. But still, I think that game makers could afford to be a little more clear with the way things work.

Honestly, I personally think it's because the designers are trying to not bore the players with raw information. Sure, it's handy when it's boiled down and concise, but some people can't absorb formulas unless they're expanded a bit and easier to read. The problem is striking a balance so that you don't alienate either side of the spectrum, which a lot of books seem to do. Before throwing out my Exalted manual, I had handwritten notes below some of the lengthier abilities marked as TL;DR, followed by the numerical effect...

With the group you've collected on here, I highly doubt the rules will need to be diluted for their enjoyment, but it might be something to consider later on. If you do decide to do so, I have one request: either a DM Screen printout or a glossary for quick reference.

[Welknair]

Deathwatch is the TT RPG of Warhammer 40k. It is complicated. I don't have too much experience with it, so I'm no expert, but I'd say that it is among the more complicated of games I've seen.

If you've taken a look at my Essays post (Link can be found in my extended signature, but I haven't updated it in ages), you know how many games I've looked at. I've become exceedingly adept at picking up a new game and flipping through to find the important bits. Deathwatch was one of the few instances where my first attempt at this fell short. I'm sure I could get it if I spent the time, but it just didn't appeal to me too much.

I agree about the balance between mechanics and fluff. You don't want it to be too dry, but at the same time you need to actually have the crunch in there. I think that a glossary or "Rules Reference" section would be a very good idea. And I'd looove it if I could get to the point of offering GM screens for sale that has said references.

For the record, GMs in my game are called "Muses", though I make sure to note that "Muse" is just a fancy name for GM, specifc to Fourthland. And the recommended party size is... Wait for it... Four. Though given the relatively easy mechanics, I'd imagine having groups closer to 6 players should still operate pretty well. But 4 is a safe minimum.

[Story Time]

"Muses"

...doling out product identity to the common peoples... :smallfrown:


On the other hand, assembling of a first draft is a good thing. Congratulations, Welknair. :smallsmile:

[Fako]

While I understand that you're probably referencing the mystical ideas of a "muse", I'll personally use it under the pretense that the job of the Muse is to aMuse the group...

[Story Time]

...actually, no, I was specifically referencing an English word that is to my knowledge so unique in gaming systems that it could be considered as part of what will becoming the established product identity for FourthLand. I have no special knowledge that it will be. It could simply become, "only a term." That's fine if so. But...I'm the cautious type.

Welknair is a very generous and perhaps unassuming person. :smallsmile:

[Fako]

...actually, no, I was specifically referencing an English word that is to my knowledge so unique in gaming systems that it could be considered as part of what will becoming the established product identity for FourthLand. I have no special knowledge that it will be. It could simply become, "only a term." That's fine if so. But...I'm the cautious type.

Welknair is a very generous and perhaps unassuming person. :smallsmile:

That he is. I was actually referencing Welknair's post, but I admit, mine was rather ambiguous. Personally, I like the idea of calling the person running the show a "Muse" as opposed to a Game/Dungeon Master or Story Teller, which are the common ones... seems more organic, and it has four letters to help it fit in with the game's theme. As far as how "important" the term shall be to the identity of the game... only one man knows.

[Welknair]

My impression is that it is a general enough word (Greek mythology) that I wouldn't be able to register it even if I wanted to. Though I honestly hadn't thought of the possibility of people trying to take the term.. I'll make sure to be a bit more cautious in the future.

[Story Time]

[...]I like the idea of calling the person running the show a "Muse"[...]

Ditto. It'll be a neat change. One more reason to run the system, if one of my campaign slots becomes available. :smallsmile:

[SamBurke]

Additionally, I am very much aware of the importance of those first few pages. The intro is extremely important in grabbing the attentions of would-be players and GMs. I'm doing my best to make the intro as engaging and up-front as possible.

That reminds me! Why do games so often have their mechanics bound up in fluff, like you said? Even the core mechanics, often. These things should be in a clear, concise format for easy learning. I have the majority of my game written on sheets of notebook paper at this point, and the main mechanics occupy less than two such pages. Why should i need to read a hundred pages to learn what I could have in two? Of course content, context, and examples are important. But still, I think that game makers could afford to be a little more clear with the way things work.

Honestly, this world is pretty much built for power gamers. That guy who wants to see just how far he can push the rules. The one who decided to build the lightning mace build, or see if he could break 40,000 HP damage in a single turn. It's for the abstractors, the attempters, the people who really ask, "Why do we have gravity this way, anyway? Who cares about Einstein!"

I have no idea how that helps, though.

Derp.

[Welknair]

Honestly, this world is pretty much built for power gamers. That guy who wants to see just how far he can push the rules. The one who decided to build the lightning mace build, or see if he could break 40,000 HP damage in a single turn. It's for the abstractors, the attempters, the people who really ask, "Why do we have gravity this way, anyway? Who cares about Einstein!"

I have no idea how that helps, though.

Derp.

Yeah.. My target audience is pretty much you guys, my crazy-player, and about anyone that makes game-exploiting redstone contraptions on Minecraft. I have long since realized, and embraced this fact. The way it's set up, though, said game-breaking tends to be a TEAM ACTIVITY instead of a solo thing. So yeah, you can break the world. But at least the players are doing it together!

[radmelon]

This of course makes me wonder what would happen were non-powergamers to play this system, people with little to no tabletop experience. Heck, they'd probably come up with things the powergamers wouldn't think of, simply from a different perspective.

[Welknair]

This of course makes me wonder what would happen were non-powergamers to play this system, people with little to no tabletop experience. Heck, they'd probably come up with things the powergamers wouldn't think of, simply from a different perspective.

That IS a very good question.

Given how entirely peculiar this game is, I think it'll be veeeery interesting to see how different people react to it. It says something about you if the first thing you do in a new and pristine world of wonder is... Make a doomsday-machine. *Coughcough* I have a couple of friends that are willing to test that have far less experience in the genre, and are a little less maniacal. I'm curious to see how that goes.

Now I'm wondering how would approach this world if I were a player... *Ponderponder* That'd make a great doomday machine...

[SamBurke]

That IS a very good question.

Given how entirely peculiar this game is, I think it'll be veeeery interesting to see how different people react to it. It says something about you if the first thing you do in a new and pristine world of wonder is... Make a doomsday-machine. *Coughcough* I have a couple of friends that are willing to test that have far less experience in the genre, and are a little less maniacal. I'm curious to see how that goes.

Now I'm wondering how would approach this world if I were a player... *Ponderponder* That'd make a great doomday machine...

I think the problem will be counter-responses.

Because every yin has a yang. Someone will always have a disable-inator sitting around, waiting to restructure any device.

WHICH does sound pretty handy.

[Centric]

We can only begin to imagine what someone's RPG career would be like whose experience in them began with mastery of Fourthland.

What kind of thinkers could a school system turn out if Social Studies were replaced with Fourthland Hall/Hour?

[Welknair]

I think the problem will be counter-responses.

Because every yin has a yang. Someone will always have a disable-inator sitting around, waiting to restructure any device.

WHICH does sound pretty handy.

That's another interesting point... How would one defend against these various abuses? What kind of weird protections could you come up with to prevent people rocketing through no-gravity zones at you? The defenses and responses will likely be just as outlandish as the original methods. If not moreso.


We can only begin to imagine what someone's RPG career would be like whose experience in them began with mastery of Fourthland.

What kind of thinkers could a school system turn out if Social Studies were replaced with Fourthland Hall/Hour?

This would be horrifying and glorious. And welcome! It's always to see a new follower of the thread!

[Amechra]

Innertia-less fields, of course. Most people don't bother keeping their hands on the propulsion controls, and an area of space where that glide just stops... They wouldn't get whiplash, but we would need some way to get rid of the extra energy... I suggest transmuting it into heat.

In other words, they rocket at you and incinerate themselves. Alternatively, a thin film of reversed inertia would cause them to crash into themselves, which would hurt. A lot.

[jojolagger]

Innertia-less fields, of course. Most people don't bother keeping their hands on the propulsion controls, and an area of space where that glide just stops... They wouldn't get whiplash, but we would need some way to get rid of the extra energy... I suggest transmuting it into heat.

In other words, they rocket at you and incinerate themselves. Alternatively, a thin film of reversed inertia would cause them to crash into themselves, which would hurt. A lot.
Confetti infused with "sharpness". They fly right in and get torn to shreds. :smallbiggrin:

[Welknair]

Innertia-less fields, of course. Most people don't bother keeping their hands on the propulsion controls, and an area of space where that glide just stops... They wouldn't get whiplash, but we would need some way to get rid of the extra energy... I suggest transmuting it into heat.

In other words, they rocket at you and incinerate themselves. Alternatively, a thin film of reversed inertia would cause them to crash into themselves, which would hurt. A lot.

A layer of anti-inertia.. Wouldn't that be entirely unpassable? If you're lucky and only moving slowly, you'll get gently bounced away. *Makes mental note to include an Alchemy to produce anti-inertial fields*

...

*And portals*


Confetti infused with "sharpness". They fly right in and get torn to shreds. :smallbiggrin:

Giving "Papercut" a whole new meaning.

[Amechra]

Make a field that separates out/harvests 4th.

Let them fly through it.

Profit.

[Story Time]

*Makes mental note to include an Alchemy to produce anti-inertial fields*

I knew that was going to happen. I knew it.

[TravelLog]

*And portals*
VICTORY! The cake is not a lie!

[Welknair]

I knew that was going to happen. I knew it.

How.. How could you have possibly know that was going to happen? :smalleek:


VICTORY! The cake is not a lie!

"What's cake?"


I'm considering another crazy addition, but I'm hesitant. Namely, I'm afraid this is too wacky even for MY standards: A fourth spacial dimension. Every time I've brought the idea up with one of my friends, they tell me the same thing, "Time is the fourth dimension". That's why I specificied SPACIAL dimension!

I've just finished wrapping my head fully around the idea myself. I'm pretty sure you guys would take to it as easy as you have everything else, but I fear it may be a bit too much for the vast population less insane than us.

Secure structures become a little more complicated, due to them now being four-dimensional. If you build a structure only in the first three, someone could go forwards on the fourth plane, move in the three dimensions to where the interior of the structure is, then move backwards through the fourth plane into the structure on its native plane. To protect against this, you'd need to recreate the structure on adjacent planes, but without doors or such. Unless you wanted them, that is. It also means just as we can have buildings with small floor dimensions but can still be quite large by being tall, in the same way we could have what appears to be a shack, but is in fact a massive four-dimensional longhouse.

...Thoughts?

[jojolagger]

I'm considering another crazy addition, but I'm hesitant. Namely, I'm afraid this is too wacky even for MY standards: A fourth spacial dimension. Every time I've brought the idea up with one of my friends, they tell me the same thing, "Time is the fourth dimension". That's why I specificied SPACIAL dimension!

I've just finished wrapping my head fully around the idea myself. I'm pretty sure you guys would take to it as easy as you have everything else, but I fear it may be a bit too much for the vast population less insane than us.

Secure structures become a little more complicated, due to them now being four-dimensional. If you build a structure only in the first three, someone could go forwards on the fourth plane, move in the three dimensions to where the interior of the structure is, then move backwards through the fourth plane into the structure on its native plane. To protect against this, you'd need to recreate the structure on adjacent planes, but without doors or such. Unless you wanted them, that is. It also means just as we can have buildings with small floor dimensions but can still be quite large by being tall, in the same way we could have what appears to be a shack, but is in fact a massive four-dimensional longhouse.

...Thoughts?
I actually did some work on a D&D character that did something similar using bent extradimensional spaces. Mapping it is hell. Honestly, mapping building with multiple floors is bad due to needing a 2D map for each floor, but this means you need a separate building map for each 4th dimensional unit.

I'm sure it would be interesting, and we could handle it, but it might cause some problems for less expert players.

[Welknair]

I actually did some work on a D&D character that did something similar using bent extradimensional spaces. Mapping it is hell. Honestly, mapping building with multiple floors is bad due to needing a 2D map for each floor, but this means you need a separate building map for each 4th dimensional unit.

I'm sure it would be interesting, and we could handle it, but it might cause some problems for less expert players.

My thoughts exactly. It's worth noting that players would only be able to move through one space on the fourth dimension at a time, and doing so takes considerable resources, so we wouldn't constantly be dealing with four-dimensional hijinks. It would likely still be very difficult to adjudicate. For the sake of simplicity and resources, many structures would only exist on one fourth-dimension-coordinate, allowing the potential of four dimensional theft. Which frankly, I find very cool. Secure castles and walls would be among the only plalces where they'd go the extra mile to secure it on multiple dimensions.

Any GM making a four-dimensional labyrinth deserves whatever comes of that. *Shudder*

[Xechon]

Portals...

YES!! However, assuming you will keep dimensions the same, for the sake of players being able to visually comprehend the game, what are you going to do about the portal paradoxes? What happens when you drop a portal into another? What happens when you place an object in-between two portals and close them around it? What happens if you put an iron rod in a portal so that both sides of it are touching, then solder it together and move one of the portals? You need a rule of Paradox, not only for spacial mind puzzles, but also through time.

Also, about the 4th dimension:

Fractional Dimensions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_dimension

4th Spatial Dimension:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-dimensional_space
https://sites.google.com/site/scimatechathhs/mathematics/geometry

And Finally, a theory of Gravity that I came up with (Not written by me, obviously, I don't have enough education on these topics to write such an amazing article, but I had the idea before this was posted. All credit goes to the author):
http://www.sciencefile.org/system/home/item/5121-the-fractal-topology-of-spacetime

Wow.

[Story Time]

*Makes mental note to include an Alchemy to produce anti-inertial fields*


I knew that was going to happen. I knew it.


How.. How could you have possibly know that was going to happen? :smalleek:


...not so worried about anti-matter and negative energy. ...more concerned about anti-energy and negative matter.

...um...I'm...kind of brilliant...some-times... I like to hide it and pretend I'm not. It tends to bother people...

[SamBurke]

I've spent a lot of time figuring out what the Fourth Dimension would look like, or, at least, getting my mind wrapped around the idea.

Thing is, it'll be really, really complicated. Sure, it's pretty cool, and will fit well with the thoughts behind the game.

Perhaps it can be an optional plugin? Used by a villain? Extremely rare?

[Welknair]

I've spent a lot of time figuring out what the Fourth Dimension would look like, or, at least, getting my mind wrapped around the idea.

Thing is, it'll be really, really complicated. Sure, it's pretty cool, and will fit well with the thoughts behind the game.

Perhaps it can be an optional plugin? Used by a villain? Extremely rare?

I realize how complicated the concept is: If it takes people like us this amount of time to grasp it, it'll be nigh-on impossible for "Normal" people to fully understand it. Because of this, I've decided a few things: I will likely include it in the game, but in a little appendix at the back, possibly with other crazy-butt ideas that are too complicated to include in the main portion. These will be optional elements, for groups that are entirely insane and seeking even more brain-bending weirdness. More narrowly, on the topic of four-dimensional space, movement through the fourth dimension will be exceedingly difficult and resource-consuming, such that it isn't a daily occurence. I may further increase this difficulty, and limit the fourth dimension to a particular number of layers (Given that space is discrete in my game anyways). This could help minimize confusion while still having the option open.

[Story Time]

Wait, the lim...

You know what, I'm not going to ask that. I retract my question.

[Xechon]

The concept of the fourth spatial dimension is easy to comprehend. It's like the TARDIS. Essentially there is space, and within that space is another space that seems like it adds to the initial space from within it, but actually and visibly takes up the original space when outside it. It's when there are 5 spatial dimensions that things get really wacky, or fractional dimensions, as it becomes space-ception. I hope to see more than just musings (GM created material) for this concept. I can help with any details like the above, where normal and theoretical physics apply.

[Welknair]

The concept of the fourth spatial dimension is easy to comprehend. It's like the TARDIS. Essentially there is space, and within that space is another space that seems like it adds to the initial space from within it, but actually and visibly takes up the original space when outside it. It's when there are 5 spatial dimensions that things get really wacky, or fractional dimensions, as it becomes space-ception. I hope to see more than just musings (GM created material) for this concept. I can help with any details like the above, where normal and theoretical physics apply.

I'm by no means an expert in the field (In fact, I have exactly zero schooling in it), but what I'm thinking of deviates a bit from that. It's also worth noting that I have watched only a paltry amount of Doctor Who, which means I fail as a geek forever. My impression is that the TARDIS acts kind of like a Bag of Holding - Bigger on the inside than the outside. The inside is an "Extradimensional space", separate from the surrounding world. Again, I don't know my Dr. Who, and they likely have a very intricate explanation of this which is almost certainly not what I just said. What I'm getting at is that it is an isolated dimension, whereas I'm proposing a fourth dimension for the entire world, one just like our usual height-width-depth. Height-Width-Depth-Layer, in this case. So physical objects would have four coordinates (Five if you include time).

I'd like to briefly discuss an aspect of my game that I very much want to emphasize: Homebrew. I've said it numerous times, how I wish to make most elements homebrew-able. I may soon be setting up a website, with its own forums. On said forums, I will of course have a section for homebrew. I'm considering having a more formalized means of PEACHing and review. Perhaps something along the lines of dedicated, approved members, "Confirming" various projects once they have been deemed as balanced and appropriate for the game. Once a project is Confirmed, it would be added to a compendium. Effectively, I'm consider making Homebrew an official and directly endorsed part of my game. Given the section this is in, I'd assume most readers would be able to empathize with this notion. Of course, you could use material that hasn't been Confirmed, and there's no impetus to post your work solely on my forums. It would however, be a way to verify the respectability of a given work, as well as allow for easy search-ability.

That last bit has always intrigued me about Homebrew. You post it, people PEACH it, some people read it and decide to use it. ... Then what? It eventually falls off the front page. At that point, the only people that will find it are those that have either A) Been referred to it, or B) Found a link in your signature, from a more recent post. So if your project doesn't really pop out at people, A won't happen. B relies on people actually scanning extended sigs, and requires the author to still be active. A lot of work simply falls off, never to be seen again. I find this a tragic fate for the brain children of so many bright individuals. I'd like to keep records, to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen with my game.

...Thoughts?

[Xechon]

A universal 4th dimension wouldn't be noticed, and it's affects would only be changed mass from your perception and it's real mass. If there were ways to negate the fourth dimension, objects in the negated zone would grow (or shrink, if the fourth-dimensional object is smaller than the 3d one( you could accomplish this with just 3d objects)). They would grow to seem like their actual mass or the size of the field, whichever is smaller. Also, if you were to step out of the universe and view it, it would look its correct mass, as long as the 4d doesn't apply to you there.

The TARDIS works by folding the 3rd spatial dimension upon itself, forming a plane of 4d, looking to be 2d, and stores the 3d space within it. Essentially, the door is a portal that stores 3d space, and that mass replaces (not adds as above, sorry, words) the mass of the object, but only from within it.

So yes, the TARDIS works like a bag of holding, but both work because of 4th dimension shenanigans. I also have no schooling, but this has become my favorite hobby. The above description of the TARDIS was made by info given in the shows, a few abstract sources, and pure logical speculation.

And thumbs up to the homebrew.

[Story Time]

...Thoughts?

Cogent, verisimilitudous, but also idealistic time-travel, is some-thing that I like. FourthLand is a game. The game should be fun.

:smallsmile:

[Welknair]

A universal 4th dimension wouldn't be noticed, and it's affects would only be changed mass from your perception and it's real mass. If there were ways to negate the fourth dimension, objects in the negated zone would grow (or shrink, if the fourth-dimensional object is smaller than the 3d one( you could accomplish this with just 3d objects)). They would grow to seem like their actual mass or the size of the field, whichever is smaller. Also, if you were to step out of the universe and view it, it would look its correct mass, as long as the 4d doesn't apply to you there.

The TARDIS works by folding the 3rd spatial dimension upon itself, forming a plane of 4d, looking to be 2d, and stores the 3d space within it. Essentially, the door is a portal that stores 3d space, and that mass replaces (not adds as above, sorry, words) the mass of the object, but only from within it.

So yes, the TARDIS works like a bag of holding, but both work because of 4th dimension shenanigans. I also have no schooling, but this has become my favorite hobby. The above description of the TARDIS was made by info given in the shows, a few abstract sources, and pure logical speculation.

And thumbs up to the homebrew.

I think it worth noting that space in my game is discrete, not continuous. This is even more true with the hypothetical fourth dimension. I'm envisioning it like an infinite number of "Layers" of the three dimensional world, stacked on top of one another. By going through a particular costly process, you can move to an adjacent layer, maintaining your 3-d coordinates. Unlike the TARDIS, things here don't easily "Fold" into the fourth dimension to reduce apparent volume. Closest thing I can think of is the Ethereal Plane in D&D 3.5e. You can move "Further into" or "Further out of" the plane, without moving in 3d space (Generally you're moving in 3d space at the same time, but the point stands). The closer you get to the Material Plane, the more opaque things become. The further away, the more transparent and ghostly.


Cogent, verisimilitudous, but also idealistic time-travel, is some-thing that I like. FourthLand is a game. The game should be fun.

:smallsmile:

Hmm.. I DO have a time-energy, but I made it explicitely such that you cannot go backwards in time. Homestuck is dang awesome and handles time travel exceedingly well, but I think that GM-mediation of the type of time travel I'd like may be even more complicated than the 4d idea. I'll give it a bit more thought, though.

[Fako]

I love your idea for incorporating homebrew into "approved content", thereby allowing your game to grow after development is done. What type of setup were you planning on using for the "Confirmed" section? Also, you'll need to have some sort of ToS for the Homebrew section, to prevent legal headaches...

[Story Time]

...with all of the trouble that a few people, and the thread in general, have gone to considering copy-right, copy-right theory, intellectual property, and what those things mean...I should probably be a little offended at the idea that some Shmoe could just waltz into a forum, type out some words, and suddenly those words are official content.

White-Wolf Publishing does that. I...hate that business choice. I just don't have the words right now to fully express how disgusting that idea is to me.


Welknair, on the other hand, is a very kind and generous person. If he wants to allow a home-brew section in his forum, then let him. And if he wants to endorse certain home-brew, then let him. But allowing content not created by Welknair to become official is wrong in a way so heinous that I can not articulate it.



I'll give it a bit more thought, though.

Do that. :smallsmile: Make the game you want to play.

[Welknair]

I love your idea for incorporating homebrew into "approved content", thereby allowing your game to grow after development is done. What type of setup were you planning on using for the "Confirmed" section? Also, you'll need to have some sort of ToS for the Homebrew section, to prevent legal headaches...


...with all of the trouble that a few people, and the thread in general, have gone to considering copy-right, copy-right theory, intellectual property, and what those things mean...I should probably be a little offended at the idea that some Shmoe could just waltz into a forum, type out some words, and suddenly those words are official content.

White-Wolf Publishing does that. I...hate that business choice. I just don't have the words right now to fully express how disgusting that idea is to me.


Welknair, on the other hand, is a very kind and generous person. If he wants to allow a home-brew section in his forum, then let him. And if he wants to endorse certain home-brew, then let him. But allowing content not created by Welknair to become official is wrong in a way so heinous that I can not articulate it.

I didn't give much legal thought to the matter.. Hmm. Perhaps not have the "Confirmed" dealio be tied to the copyright protection, but just simply a way to verify whether or not a particular piece of work has been approved for balance and flavor? What's important is the endorsement and availability of the homebrew, not it being tangled up in the mess that is copyright law.

[Fako]

The problem lies in the company itself endorsing it, and whether or not someone could manipulate the situation to claim that they are due compensation for their contribution to the game. That's why I suggested a specialized Terms of Service for using the message boards. State that any material that they create is the property of the original creator, and that by putting it onto the site they give permission for Fourthland to link to it or archive it, but cannot monetize it. Obviously this would need to be written in legalese, but that seems the "simplest" answer.

[Story Time]

What's important is the endorsement and availability of the homebrew, not it being tangled up in the mess that is copyright law.

Exactly. That is why the word, "official," can not be used. Welknair in his Forum-Master threads ( clothes ) can swing by and say, "Hey, I like this. I endorse it." As a person, that's fine. :smallsmile: Getting into officially sanctioned material, however, is dangerous.


And no. Terms of Service and / or Copy-right disclaimers are not the direction to go. There is only one body of text, one author, and one authority over the copy-right. The end.

It's dangerous enough that Welknair wants to allow home-brew on an official forum in such an open manner. Because of this, the best way to avoid legal trouble is to not make obvious and permissive concessions to forum members.

[Welknair]

The problem lies in the company itself endorsing it, and whether or not someone could manipulate the situation to claim that they are due compensation for their contribution to the game. That's why I suggested a specialized Terms of Service for using the message boards. State that any material that they create is the property of the original creator, and that by putting it onto the site they give permission for Fourthland to link to it or archive it, but cannot monetize it. Obviously this would need to be written in legalese, but that seems the "simplest" answer.


Exactly. That is why the word, "official," can not be used. Welknair in his Forum-Master threads ( clothes ) can swing by and say, "Hey, I like this. I endorse it." As a person, that's fine. :smallsmile: Getting into officially sanctioned material, however, is dangerous.


And no. Terms of Service and / or Copy-right disclaimers are not the direction to go. There is only one body of text, one author, and one authority over the copy-right. The end.

It's dangerous enough that Welknair wants to allow home-brew on an official forum in such an open manner. Because of this, the best way to avoid legal trouble is to not make obvious and permissive concessions to forum members.

If possible, I'd like to avoid the use of legal disclaimers, as they necesitate the hiring of lawyers which I have nowhere near enough money for. If possible, I'd like to go with what Storytime just said - Me saying that I personally endorse it, possibly including a little guide to homebrew in the book, and a section for homebrew on the boards. I have no problems with avoiding the use of the term "Official" and I suppose I mispoke it when I originally said it, as it was not my intention to actually make the 3rd party brew a part of the legal entity that will be my game.

[Story Time]

...on the other hand, honestly, I wish that my advice was not necessary. I wish that the world, including for publishing, was a happy place where every-one was treated with respect for what each person brought to a project. What a beautiful place that would be.

...I'd like the building of books and games to be something that happened in Equestria... That would be so grand.

Experience, however, has brought me to say what I do. Oh how unnecessary I wish it was.


...quick, some-one post some-thing cute... Please?

[radmelon]

Friendly adorableness strike inbound.
3
2
1

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/69811530/95713%20-.jpg

Mission Success

[Story Time]

Mission Success

I'll say! I laughed! Yes, I did. Thank you very much. :smallsmile:

[Welknair]

Mission Success

Thank you, Radmelon, that was very much needed. :smallsmile:

Two bits of news to report:

1. I think I've come up with a decent, non-paradoxical, cohesive means of proper time travel. One that I don't think would be a total GM nightmare.

2. I got the D&D 5e playtest material. Now I need to debate between playtesting MY game and playtesting THEIR game. Gosh darnit, WotC.

[Amechra]

Is it all that its cracked up to be?

At least, from a cursory read?

I still feel that they stole my idea for a game that allows people to play at different levels of sophistication, and still stays balanced...

[Welknair]

Is it all that its cracked up to be?

At least, from a cursory read?

I still feel that they stole my idea for a game that allows people to play at different levels of sophistication, and still stays balanced...

Well, I don't think I'm supposed to talk too much about specifics, but I can say this much: This is just a snippet. They'll be releasing periodic packets of information. This one is juuuust enough to run a level 1-3 adventure (Included, of course). As such, its a bit difficult to see the entire outlook of the game. It comes with 5 pregenerated characters instead of character creation rules. My first impression is "3.5, with some tweaks". Many of the changes are very reminiscent of PF. It'll still be some time before I can render a full verdict as to my opinion, but I think they're going in the right direction.

And I think I may have stolen your idea as well... "Progressive Disclosure" is almost exactly that. You can voluntarily choose to stay on a particular stage if you don't want the complexity from later stages. But why are you playing Fourthland if you don't want complexity? :smallamused:

Edit: Oh, and I toooootaly don't intend to steal WotC's playtesting methods. *Taking notes*

[SamBurke]

2. I got the D&D 5e playtest material. Now I need to debate between playtesting MY game and playtesting THEIR game. Gosh darnit, WotC.

How do I obtain this?

[Story Time]

1. I think I've come up with a decent, non-paradoxical, cohesive means of proper time travel. One that I don't think would be a total GM nightmare.

Hooray! :smallbiggrin:



2. I got the D&D 5e playtest material. Now I need to debate between playtesting MY game and playtesting THEIR game. Gosh darnit, WotC.

Aww... Well, all work and no play is not healthy. So having fun, what-ever form that takes, is probably a correct direction. Go forward with that. Full throttle. :smallbiggrin:

[Welknair]

How do I obtain this?

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242069) would be the place to look. I got mine through hijinks. WotC is having maaany server problems at the moment, and many people that have received download links are finding them to be inoperable. I'd check out the WotC site and sign up for the playtest. You ought to receive the materials soon, if my impression is correct.

[Centric]

Legitimate hijinks. Because the servers were being a problem. Clearing that up.

[Elfstone]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242069) would be the place to look. I got mine through hijinks. WotC is having maaany server problems at the moment, and many people that have received download links are finding them to be inoperable. I'd check out the WotC site and sign up for the playtest. You ought to receive the materials soon, if my impression is correct.

This is where Im at. If I dont get it in less than 2 hours.... I'll look elsewhere.

In other news, I heartily thumbs up allowing a homebrew section, regardless of any sort of endorsement. :smallbiggrin:

[Dimonite]

This would be horrifying and glorious. And welcome! It's always to see a new follower of the thread!
Does... does this mean I can come out of the shadows? I... I brought a swordness pie.

[Welknair]

Does... does this mean I can come out of the shadows? I... I brought a swordness pie.

Of course its alright! Anyone with a swordness pie is a friend of mine! It'll go wonderfully with my shieldness icecream!

[Amechra]

... If you don't mind, I'm not going to eat any of the buffet. Why? Because no-one brought foodness.

Except for me and my foodness laser.

[Welknair]

Except for me and my foodness laser.

Didn't you also have the flavor-energy? You could foodify random objects, then make them taste like cherries! Or you could be a bit more creative, and make them taste like "SAN loss"... "Cthulhu Custard"

[Story Time]

...how long has it been?

Today, in Welknair's thread, I've had reason to think of eating Final Fantasy elemental crystals and actually be nourished by them.

Of course, the thread also makes me think of the Lost Boys Banquet. ...I was forced to watch Hook once.

[Welknair]

...how long has it been?

Today, in Welknair's thread, I've had reason to think of eating Final Fantasy elemental crystals and actually be nourished by them.

Of course, the thread also makes me think of the Lost Boys Banquet. ...I was forced to watch Hook once.

"Welknair's Thread: Side effects may include: Immediate loss of SAN, questions regarding our fundamental assumptions of the world around us, perpetual motion, blackholes, paradoxes, ponies, food-ified objects, piercing boulders, bludgeoning spears, and time clones. Consult your doctor if you feel that any of these may be a problem, or if any portion of your body has been chronofragged."

Edit: A NOTE TO ANY AND ALL LURKERS: We'd very much like to hear your opinions about what's going on on this thread! Don't be afraid to make a post!

[SamBurke]

"Welknair's Thread: Side effects may include: Immediate loss of SAN, questions regarding our fundamental assumptions of the world around us, perpetual motion, blackholes, paradoxes, ponies, food-ified objects, piercing boulders, bludgeoning spears, and time clones. Consult your doctor if you feel that any of these may be a problem, or if any portion of your body has been chronofragged.


This goes in the OP. Right now.

[IreliVent]

I still don't know how liquids would work, liquids work the way they do in our world because they're made up of lots of molecules each doing their own thing
, if there are no atoms or molecules in Fourth Land how do liquids work?:smallconfused:

[Welknair]

I still don't know how liquids would work, liquids work the way they do in our world because they're made up of lots of molecules each doing their own thing
, if there are no atoms or molecules in Fourth Land how do liquids work?:smallconfused:

That's a very good question! I've brushed over the issue a couple of times, but don't have a definitive answer yet. There will be liquids, though. They just might not be liquids in the way that we usually think of them.

[SamBurke]

I still don't know how liquids would work, liquids work the way they do in our world because they're made up of lots of molecules each doing their own thing
, if there are no atoms or molecules in Fourth Land how do liquids work?:smallconfused:

BOOM.

Brainshot.

http://noobstore.com/prodimages/button-icon-headshot-art-280.gif

[Welknair]

I'm also running with the idea that air doesn't exist in Fourthland. So there's that, too. No air=No drag/terminal velocity. Though of course velocity works much differently here as well..

[SamBurke]

I'm also running with the idea that air doesn't exist in Fourthland. So there's that, too. No air=No drag/terminal velocity. Though of course velocity works much differently here as well..

So it's what we might call a vacuum?

[radmelon]

So, if there's no air, is there wind? Because wind is kind of important.

[Welknair]

So, if there's no air, is there wind? Because wind is kind of important.

At the moment, I don't have any reservations for wind. Given that we don't necessarily have a spinning sphere of an earth with an orbital moon pulling at liquid covering the majority of said planet, even if I did have air, there wouldn't necessarily be much wind.

But then again, if it's true in any game, anything is possible in Fourthland. It wouldn't be at all difficult to add wind if it was deemed necessary. Or if nothing else, it's an opportunity for a homebrew energy.

[Fako]

So, do people survive by "breathing" from a thin aura of Life energy, which their body slowly burns through to keep them alive? I realize that "people" will not function the same as the humans we are accustomed to... I'm just curious as to how many things about them are vaguely recognizable...

[Amechra]

We will all be barely hyperintelligent jellyfish made of pure whimsy, floating upon a black rainbow, dyed yellow by the suffusion of knowledge flowing through our pseudopods.

We also won't have any mouths. So all communication will be through sign language.

All of it. Literally. Including how we communicate to each other IRL.

[Amechra]

We will all be barely hyperintelligent jellyfish made of pure whimsy, floating upon a black rainbow, dyed yellow by the suffusion of knowledge flowing through our pseudopods.

We also won't have any mouths. So all communication will be through sign language.

All of it. Literally. Including how we communicate to each other IRL.

And, of course, through subtle differences in double posts.

[radmelon]

...I can't tell if that's poetry or madness, probably both.

[Fako]

It's the poetry OF madness. And it is beautiful.

[Story Time]

Related To Amechra:

Player One: My character tries to communicate with it!

GameMaster: How?

Player One: Um... Interpretive Dance?

[TravelLog]

Hey, interpretive transcends all boundaries!

Hahhahahahah. Sorry, couldn't keep a straight face saying that.

[SamBurke]

How dare you diss my special talent?

In other news, I just imagined a yellow jellyfish with an interpretative dance cutie mark speaking -no, flapping?- in a sad southern accent. Don't ask me how that works.

Fourthland is freakin epic.

[Fako]

Fourthland: The game where a 5 degree difference in how you hold up your ganglia changes the definition from "mother" to "monster"...

[Dimonite]

Well, I used to be very good friends with an extremely talented artist that I was hoping to draw the majority of the artwork but.. IRL things came up and that is looking less likely. Perhaps I should make a post in the Arts and Craft section? For the first release pictures aren't required, but at some point I would like them.

Well, I know the FANTASTIC PERSON who drew my dragonpuppy (evaarts.tumblr.com) is looking for work.

Also, Pickle. I missed that before.

[Welknair]

Well, I know the FANTASTIC PERSON who drew my dragonpuppy (evaarts.tumblr.com) is looking for work.

I'll keep that in mind, but for the moment I think I've got the art covered.


We will all be barely hyperintelligent jellyfish made of pure whimsy, floating upon a black rainbow, dyed yellow by the suffusion of knowledge flowing through our pseudopods.

We also won't have any mouths. So all communication will be through sign language.

All of it. Literally. Including how we communicate to each other IRL.

There are no words.


In other news: SUCCESSFUL PLAYTEST. I just did a several hour game, incorporating my numerous changes, and things went quite well! I got a list of notes on tweaks to make out of it, but on the whole, I was very pleased with the results! I managed to avoid too many headsplodes!

[Story Time]

In other news: SUCCESSFUL PLAYTEST.

Yay! :smallsmile:

[TravelLog]

When is our turn!?

[Amechra]

It's the poetry OF madness. And it is beautiful.

Thank you all; I'll be here all week.

And for the playtest, of course...

[Xechon]

Okay, so I was recently telling a friend about this upcoming system (free advertisement!), and he asked me "If the space energy isn't present, can any other energies exist there?". And I am stumped. Any help?

[Welknair]

Okay, so I was recently telling a friend about this upcoming system (free advertisement!), and he asked me "If the space energy isn't present, can any other energies exist there?". And I am stumped. Any help?

Energy zero, man. Energy zero.

[MageSparrowhawk]

Hello! I recently found this thread and was hooked into reading the whole darn thing by the end of the first post...so consider me another incredibly interested party.

Also, there was a comment about how liquids and gasses would work...wouldn't that just be less structure and more motion? To be solid, it has to have a sufficient quantity of structure, so until that point, it must be in a state of greater flux-namely a liquid or gas.

[Welknair]

Hello! I recently found this thread and was hooked into reading the whole darn thing by the end of the first post...so consider me another incredibly interested party.

Also, there was a comment about how liquids and gasses would work...wouldn't that just be less structure and more motion? To be solid, it has to have a sufficient quantity of structure, so until that point, it must be in a state of greater flux-namely a liquid or gas.

Splendid, another follower! Welcome to the wacky world of Fourthland! :smallbiggrin:

I do think that that is very close to the route I'll be using for defining liquids and gases. Though "Gas" and "Liquid" will also be "-ness"s, I think. Which means that even though the default is for gases and liquids to have little to no structure, you could potentially have Steel Gas or Rockwater. Don't try punching that river in half (/reference). It won't work.

[MageSparrowhawk]

Random thought time!

heh...that also means the solidity of a material is inherently divorced from what the material actually is. That means you could have solid water without it being ice.

How would you get ice? Is temperature a quality, and if so, would states of matter relate to it at all?

Would food be a characteristic of an object, or would it just have an inherent quantity of 4th that could be extracted for nourishment?

Could energy be given structure? Soo...could you make energy shields or a beam-saber?

[radmelon]

Cripes, this is making my head hurt. Good job on the ideas, though! I've never seen a setting this... unique.

[Dimonite]

Hold up - do "-ness"s interact with energies? And if so, how? Would I, for example, be able to use energies to extract the "swordness" out of my enemy's weapon, rendering it useless? Would I be able to remove "gasness" from the air above my foe's head, crushing him with solid air?

[Domriso]

Want. Want want want want want. This is exactly the kind of game I would love to play in/run. Though I've never been much of a good PbP player, I would lovingly extend my services to be an editor/idea bouncer. I do so love to think of things that are not intrinsically understandable.

[Welknair]

Random thought time!

heh...that also means the solidity of a material is inherently divorced from what the material actually is. That means you could have solid water without it being ice.

How would you get ice? Is temperature a quality, and if so, would states of matter relate to it at all?

Would food be a characteristic of an object, or would it just have an inherent quantity of 4th that could be extracted for nourishment?

Could energy be given structure? Soo...could you make energy shields or a beam-saber?

1. I do have a temperature-energy. Make of that what you will.

2. There's been prior reference to "Foodness" and "Foodification". Mostly from other followers of this thread though, not me.

3. Interessssting...


Hold up - do "-ness"s interact with energies? And if so, how? Would I, for example, be able to use energies to extract the "swordness" out of my enemy's weapon, rendering it useless? Would I be able to remove "gasness" from the air above my foe's head, crushing him with solid air?

"-Ness"s are separate from energies, yet still related. "-Ness"s are made from a combination of different energies. Removal and movement of a "-Ness" maaaay be possible.


Want. Want want want want want. This is exactly the kind of game I would love to play in/run. Though I've never been much of a good PbP player, I would lovingly extend my services to be an editor/idea bouncer. I do so love to think of things that are not intrinsically understandable.

Ah, Domriso! Welcome to Fourthland! :smallbiggrin: It's always nice to know that I've brought in another follower of the absolutely insane!

I'm actually somewhat surprised by the number of people this game's premise appeals to.

[Domriso]

I haven't gotten through the entire thread yet, but I definitely wanted to show my support. It seems quite intriguing.

[Welknair]

Well, I did a lot of talking to my copyright-friend (Who participated in the playtest), and I've come to a couple of conclusions. Namely, that I need to rework a lot of the internal mechanics of my game. Since you guys have heard nothing of these, I can't imagine you care too greatly. But I am effectively rewriting the core mechanics of the universe. All the craziness that I've described is going to remain present, of course. I also have a couple new ideas..

Edit: Oh, and if anyone cares, I joined BlogNomic (http://blognomic.com/). A new Dynasty just started. I get the feeling I'm going to have some fun with this.

[Story Time]

The difference between care and ignorance is a matter of sympathy. I care. I might not know many things about the system, but Welknair's success is still important to me.

I think others would feel the same. :smallsmile:

[radmelon]

Blognomic looks like the biggest headache ever. I wish I'd thought it up.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

*Peers around*
My curiousity got the best of me. :smallbiggrin:

I find the premise intriguing! I'd say more if I knew more, but I see you're being careful of the ever looming copyright monster. Very wise, but I'm sure you also enjoy keeping some secrets. If you need any input, help, testing, artwork, or comradery, allow me to return the favor for your help with my project.

[Welknair]

*Peers around*
My curiousity got the best of me. :smallbiggrin:

I find the premise intriguing! I'd say more if I knew more, but I see you're being careful of the ever looming copyright monster. Very wise, but I'm sure you also enjoy keeping some secrets. If you need any input, help, testing, artwork, or comradery, allow me to return the favor for your help with my project.

Ah, Wombous! Welcome to my crazy little corner of the 'boards! :smallbiggrin:

I have been very careful about not disclosing too much about my game, but at the same time I can eek out little ideas to see what the popular response is. In general, if you track this thread you'll see some preeeetty interesting conversations.

If I have need of your services, I will be sure to call upon you! As I said though, a sounding board for rough ideas is always appreciated!

[SamBurke]

Well, I did a lot of talking to my copyright-friend (Who participated in the playtest), and I've come to a couple of conclusions. Namely, that I need to rework a lot of the internal mechanics of my game. Since you guys have heard nothing of these, I can't imagine you care too greatly. But I am effectively rewriting the core mechanics of the universe. All the craziness that I've described is going to remain present, of course. I also have a couple new ideas..

Edit: Oh, and if anyone cares, I joined BlogNomic (http://blognomic.com/). A new Dynasty just started. I get the feeling I'm going to have some fun with this.

What's Blognomic?

[Welknair]

What's Blognomic?

Well, there IS that handy link there. BlogNomic is a variation of Nomic which Amechra was kind enough to introduce me to. Basically, BlogNomic a net-version of Calvinball. The players make proposals to change the rules, and said proposals are voted on. Each game has a specific theme, and a new game starts every month or so. Each game is called a "Dynasty" and has an "Emperor" that oversees it and determines the theme. The Emperor of a Dynasty is the winner from the prior Dynasty.

Dynasty 100 started about a week ago (Rules are still fresh and simple). The Theme is "Time Monks". We are time-traveling bhuddists. Within the next few days, rules are going to be put in place that will allow travel to previous Dynasties. While in a past Dynasty, a Time Monk (Player) is subject to the rules of that Dynasty. The winner of Dynasty 100 will be based upon who gains a certain number of Victories by traveling to past Dynasties and completing their Victory Conditions. BlogNomic has been going on for a looooong time. For veteran players, I'd imagine that this Dynasty will be a nostalgic trip down memory lane, revisitng all their past exploits. For us noobies, it means that we have 100 Dynasties worth of archives and rulesets to skim through.

It's really fast and easy to join! And I could use a partner in crime for enacting Scams!

Oh, that reminds me. In any given Dynasty, there are usually two ways to win: The "Legit" way and a Scam. The Legit way is to honestly go about fulfilling the victory fair-and-square, as they were intended. A Scam is the exploitation of loophools to gain victory. I've read a few Scams from the archives, and these things are impressive. They are rarely able to be enacted by a single player. Hence alliances form to work the system. Fun stuff!

[jojolagger]

It's really fast and easy to join! And I could use a partner in crime for enacting Scams!

Oh, that reminds me. In any given Dynasty, there are usually two ways to win: The "Legit" way and a Scam. The Legit way is to honestly go about fulfilling the victory fair-and-square, as they were intended. A Scam is the exploitation of loophools to gain victory. I've read a few Scams from the archives, and these things are impressive. They are rarely able to be enacted by a single player. Hence alliances form to work the system. Fun stuff!

Sounds like my kind of party. :smallbiggrin: only problem is I highly doubt I have enough time to get involved in it right now. Maybe next dynasty, or near the end of this one.

[SamBurke]

Well, there IS that handy link there. BlogNomic is a variation of Nomic which Amechra was kind enough to introduce me to. Basically, BlogNomic a net-version of Calvinball. The players make proposals to change the rules, and said proposals are voted on. Each game has a specific theme, and a new game starts every month or so. Each game is called a "Dynasty" and has an "Emperor" that oversees it and determines the theme. The Emperor of a Dynasty is the winner from the prior Dynasty.

Dynasty 100 started about a week ago (Rules are still fresh and simple). The Theme is "Time Monks". We are time-traveling bhuddists. Within the next few days, rules are going to be put in place that will allow travel to previous Dynasties. While in a past Dynasty, a Time Monk (Player) is subject to the rules of that Dynasty. The winner of Dynasty 100 will be based upon who gains a certain number of Victories by traveling to past Dynasties and completing their Victory Conditions. BlogNomic has been going on for a looooong time. For veteran players, I'd imagine that this Dynasty will be a nostalgic trip down memory lane, revisitng all their past exploits. For us noobies, it means that we have 100 Dynasties worth of archives and rulesets to skim through.

It's really fast and easy to join! And I could use a partner in crime for enacting Scams!

Oh, that reminds me. In any given Dynasty, there are usually two ways to win: The "Legit" way and a Scam. The Legit way is to honestly go about fulfilling the victory fair-and-square, as they were intended. A Scam is the exploitation of loophools to gain victory. I've read a few Scams from the archives, and these things are impressive. They are rarely able to be enacted by a single player. Hence alliances form to work the system. Fun stuff!

That sounds epic... but... Time Consuming.

Darn you to herps, Mine craft. You take so much time.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

That sounds epic... but... Time Consuming.

Darn you to herps, Mine craft. You take so much time.

I agree. Running a server on top of the rest of my life keeps me fairly busy. But it's so darn addicting....

[Welknair]

I agree. Running a server on top of the rest of my life keeps me fairly busy. But it's so darn addicting....

A little known fact: I happen to moderate on a Minecraft RP server by the name of "Silver Age Roleplay". I wish I had more time for it..

UPDATE: Work on re-jiggering internal mechanics is progressing nicely. I'm also intending to include full-support for magitech-esque machinery and devices, though hopefully a bit simpler. -Ness's will play a large part in how these things work.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

A little known fact: I happen to moderate on a Minecraft RP server by the name of "Silver Age Roleplay". I wish I had more time for it..

UPDATE: Work on re-jiggering internal mechanics is progressing nicely. I'm also intending to include full-support for magitech-esque machinery and devices, though hopefully a bit simpler. -Ness's will play a large part in how these things work.

Oh no! You too have fallen victim to the allures of minecraft! Well, if you send me the server ip, i'd be game to check it out!
Also, i can't seem to find information on -ness's...what are they exactly?

[SamBurke]

Oh no! You too have fallen victim to the allures of minecraft! Well, if you send me the server ip, i'd be game to check it out!
Also, i can't seem to find information on -ness's...what are they exactly?

Here is the site. (http://silverage.enjin.com/) Not sure where to go from there, but it looks epic.

Ness's... where have those been seen before?

[MageSparrowhawk]

a sword must have 'swordness' to actually work as a sword. however, you could give this swordness to anything else...which will cause it to work as a sword. On a more universal level, form does not create function, function creates function. That baguette with swordness cuts like a blade, and that longsword with foodness is quite nourishing.

[Eleven]

With all of this beautiful craziness, I've been starting to wonder about the boring logistics of the game-world. What kind of races are you going to have? What is the setting going to look like? What about the politics, the geography (cosmography?), the factions, the quests?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

With all of this beautiful craziness, I've been starting to wonder about the boring logistics of the game-world. What kind of races are you going to have? What is the setting going to look like? What about the politics, the geography (cosmography?), the factions, the quests?

Yeah, i've been wondering about language too.

[MageSparrowhawk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the intention of the game would be that each game would have it's own characteristics. The players and the (what was the "DM" role named?) would construct the world as they went...or something like that.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the intention of the game would be that each game would have it's own characteristics. The players and the (what was the "DM" role named?) would construct the world as they went...or something like that.

Ah, that would make sense. So more free form such as GURPS then?

[Xechon]

Muse. The DM is called a muse. Also, he has mentioned rules for creating your own energies, and probably ness's to go along with it, but unless you make it different using those rules, you're probably gonna run into the same shenanigans all over again.

And the boring logistics likely don't exist. What is a race? We don't have an energy for that.

Finally; Welknair's server is a role-playing one, so they are very likely not accepting others. Especially not from here, together I feel we'd break minecraft (and the universe).

[SamBurke]

Muse. The DM is called a muse. Also, he has mentioned rules for creating your own energies, and probably ness's to go along with it, but unless you make it different using those rules, you're probably gonna run into the same shenanigans all over again.

And the boring logistics likely don't exist. What is a race? We don't have an energy for that.

Finally; Welknair's server is a role-playing one, so they are very likely not accepting others. Especially not from here, together I feel we'd break minecraft (and the universe).

SilverAge Server: They crack down on power gamers pretty hard, from what I can tell. Which is for the best.

Logistics: Yup. The what is an X? question has been asked several times. A race may have a different structure, but that doesn't mean they're different. It'd only be their aptitude to certain energies, or perhaps mental temperament (the emotion energy is still mine, peeps.)

World Creation: From what I could tell, most of the basics of the world, including any alternate gravity, is determined by the DM beforehand. You're thinking of Progressive Start. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239940) [Link hits my interpretation of it, and attempt to homebrew it to D20. We have little knowledge of how it works mechanically as of yet.]

Point of Order: Also, since we appear to be discussing several things at once, I just put the topic of each paragraph at its beginning. Dunno.

[TravelLog]

At the risk of stating the obvious: this copyright thing is really tricky.

[SamBurke]

At the risk of stating the obvious: this copyright thing is really tricky.

That's why he's got that friend to help.

[Welknair]

With all of this beautiful craziness, I've been starting to wonder about the boring logistics of the game-world. What kind of races are you going to have? What is the setting going to look like? What about the politics, the geography (cosmography?), the factions, the quests?

Ah, that would make sense. So more free form such as GURPS then?
There's a few Essays I still really need to write about games, which contain terminology that I'd like to use to respond to this.. Here's a brief description of one:

"Definition". Tabletop RPGs have a set "Definition" level, which is the gauge of how free the GM is to create their world. A game with very High Definition requires less (if any) worldbuilding on the part of the GM, but also means that they have less freedom. A game with Low Definition requires more work, but offers more freedom. My usual examples of these two poles: Exalted and GURPS. D&D is about in the middle. They have the "default setting" but still leave a lot up to the DM, plus the DM could rewrite some basic racial interactions if they wished, or use entirely different races. At the same time, they're still constrained by the bounds of the system.

I'm aiming Fourthland to be closer to D&D Definition level, if a bit lower. Because of the "Beautiful Craziness", Muses will have TONS of options in building their worlds. One playtest I ran had the world a flat plane, one was on an amorphous blob, one was on the inside of a sphere... Weird stuff. Thanks to no-gravity zones, the ability to infuse Movement into things, plus crazy Alchemies, there will be a plethora of crazy options to go about the usual stuff.

As for factions, quests and so forth: It's up to the Muse. I'll likely include a full "Default Setting", but it won't be essential to the mechanics by any means. Just a starting point to show what the game is capable of.


Yeah, i've been wondering about language too.
That's an interesting question, and not one that I've previously pondered.. My default is a Common language, though I suppose I can work something more... weird in if people wanted.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the intention of the game would be that each game would have it's own characteristics. The players and the (what was the "DM" role named?) would construct the world as they went...or something like that.
This is indeed correct! I like originality and innovation (I made THIS game, didn't I?) and I'd like to encourage these traits in both my Players and my Muses.



Muse. The DM is called a muse. Also, he has mentioned rules for creating your own energies, and probably ness's to go along with it, but unless you make it different using those rules, you're probably gonna run into the same shenanigans all over again.
I have indeed mentioned my wish for people to eventually homebrew additional Energies, and that advanced groups may use up to four such energies to augment the insanity of their game. But yes, many of the same tricks will likely come up.


And the boring logistics likely don't exist. What is a race? We don't have an energy for that.
This was actually an interesting question brought up by my latest playtest. Namely, all characters in Fourthland are still "Abstract conceptions given the semblance of life" or somesuch jargon. To help people make sense of them, I describe them as humanoids. So far, I've always described them as humans. This necessitates of course that I describe them with clothes. The problem: "What are clothes? We don't have an energy for that." The clothes are a part of the human-guise, just like the hair and nails and eyes and mouths. They aren't really THERE. As a result, you couldn't, say, tear up your shirt and tie the ends together to make shoddy rope. It doesn't work like that here. You need yourself some Ropeness. Players, however, are like to try such things. As a result, it has been suggested that I start describing the characters as a different, still humanoid form. Scales and fur were both suggested, such that clothes wouldn't be required. I think I've mentioned before that sexes don't exist in my game, so Fourthland characters wouldn't have to worry themselves about covering such bits.

Due to the low-definition of my game, if I take this kind of route, Muses would have the option to come up with pretty much any race-description they wanted for the main Fourthland Characters, as long as they stayed within rough bounds and didn't include supernatural characteristics.


Finally; Welknair's server is a role-playing one, so they are very likely not accepting others. Especially not from here, together I feel we'd break minecraft (and the universe).
Frankly, I think you guys would be a great addition to the server. We could use a bit more insanity. Oh, and I happen to be on the Whitelist team..


SilverAge Server: They crack down on power gamers pretty hard, from what I can tell. Which is for the best.
Aye, we don't allow much powergaming. This is mostly saying things like *Cuts off his head*, though. Just be careful to not make yourself look like a power-hungry griefer and you ought to be fine. As long as you're in character, you can even still be power hungry.


Logistics: Yup. The what is an X? question has been asked several times. A race may have a different structure, but that doesn't mean they're different. It'd only be their aptitude to certain energies, or perhaps mental temperament (the emotion energy is still mine, peeps.)
This is another interesting idea and one that could be integrated very easily. Because of the amorphous nature of my game, it would be exceedingly simple for a Muse to state that there are multiple races and that some are more adept than others at certain things.

Edit: To clarify, I do not intend to include a D&D-esque list of races. I will state that Muses have the option of defining multiple races, but it is by no means necessary, nor essential for the game to function.


World Creation: From what I could tell, most of the basics of the world, including any alternate gravity, is determined by the DM beforehand. You're thinking of Progressive Start. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239940) [Link hits my interpretation of it, and attempt to homebrew it to D20. We have little knowledge of how it works mechanically as of yet.]
This is quite correct!


Point of Order: Also, since we appear to be discussing several things at once, I just put the topic of each paragraph at its beginning. Dunno.
Hence my response style!

[SamBurke]

Size: That, sir, is a wall of text. All others claiming such should stand by for true form. The harbinger of its destiny, as it were. :smallwink:

Silver Age Server: In other news, you're on the whitelist team? Fantastic.

Races: Would that be available in default, or more as the Muse preferred?

[Welknair]

Size: That, sir, is a wall of text. All others claiming such should stand by for true form. The harbinger of its destiny, as it were. :smallwink:

Silver Age Server: In other news, you're on the whitelist team? Fantastic.

Races: Would that be available in default, or more as the Muse preferred?

Size: THE BIGGER THE BETTER

Server: Yup! As long as you send in reasonable applications, I have the power to accept you.

Races: Muse-preferred, as per my above clarification.

[Dark_Archivist]

Welknair, I have been a fan of your work for some time, but this...There are just no words to describe how awesome this is. I look forward to getting a copy.

[Welknair]

Welknair, I have been a fan of your work for some time, but this...There are just no words to describe how awesome this is. I look forward to getting a copy.

*Maniacal laughter* And so another joins the herd! I'm glad to hear that you've been enjoying my work!

[Amechra]

I must say... I think this group doesn't need to be humanoid.

(Go jellyfish!, Jellyfish! Jellyfish! I want to be a yellow-tinged jellyfish!)

[Welknair]

I must say... I think this group doesn't need to be humanoid.

(Go jellyfish!, Jellyfish! Jellyfish! I want to be a yellow-tinged jellyfish!)

Hmm.. Duly noted.

[SamBurke]

I must say... I think this group doesn't need to be humanoid.

(Go jellyfish!, Jellyfish! Jellyfish! I want to be a yellow-tinged jellyfish!)

I'll be an emotionless four-legged sapient ox! Who... bends... emotions.

Because you have not heard Shakespeare until you've heard him in the voice of the Elcor! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fao7VS3yrx8)

Aren't floating Jellyfish just Flumphs?

[Welknair]

I'll be an emotionless four-legged sapient ox! Who... bends... emotions.

Because you have not heard Shakespeare until you've heard him in the voice of the Elcor! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fao7VS3yrx8)
:smalleek:

I am so going to regret this... I have just made it such that Fourthland Characters can be anything that satisfy the following criteria:

Means of transportation, not including true flight.
No special abilities beyond standard stuff (Attack, think, talk, move, manipulate the fundamental energies that comprise the world, etc.)
Have some means of weilding one or two items (Telepathy works)
Roughly the size of a Human.
Some section that can vary in color (For Humans, it's usually the eyes)

Muses can dictate that all players play a single defined race, or may open it up such that the players can describe themselves..

:smalleek:

OH WHAT HAVE I DONE

[SamBurke]

:smalleek:

I am so going to regret this... I have just made it such that Fourthland Characters can be anything that satisfy the following criteria:

Means of transportation, not including true flight.
No special abilities beyond standard stuff (Attack, think, talk, move, manipulate the fundamental energies that comprise the world, etc.)
Have some means of weilding one or two items (Telepathy works)
Roughly the size of a Human.
Some section that can vary in color (For Humans, it's usually the eyes)

Muses can dictate that all players play a single defined race, or may open it up such that the players can describe themselves..

:smalleek:

OH WHAT HAVE I DONE

I tremble to think what will be done with these rules in the hands of the non-serious gamer.

True flight =? You have to define it a bit, methinks...

[radmelon]

:smalleek:

I am so going to regret this... I have just made it such that Fourthland Characters can be anything that satisfy the following criteria:

Means of transportation, not including true flight.
No special abilities beyond standard stuff (Attack, think, talk, move, manipulate the fundamental energies that comprise the world, etc.)
Have some means of weilding one or two items (Telepathy works)
Roughly the size of a Human.
Some section that can vary in color (For Humans, it's usually the eyes)

Muses can dictate that all players play a single defined race, or may open it up such that the players can describe themselves..

:smalleek:

OH WHAT HAVE I DONE

I am currently wearing the grin that only those who know that an epic flood of 'original' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SturgeonsLaw)ideas shall be pouring in, and that it will be glorious hilarious a disaster. :thog:

[Drowlord]

This... Is..... Amazing!
This idea has so much potential, it's not funny.

End of Campaign
And so, the evil, emotion-draining bovine was defeated by the Yellow-Tinged Jellyfish Legions after being swarmed with what looked like ordinary pies... But were really pies of +15 swordness. The Ringworld was safe again, thanks to their brave men.
...
"What are men?"
...
Okay, you. But he'll be back next time, because he's not dead... The fourth is with him.

[SamBurke]

May the Fourth be with you.

*hnnnggngngngngn*

Too... Punful... can't... go on! Obi-One-Kenobi, your use of Structure is our only hope!

[Welknair]

I tremble to think what will be done with these rules in the hands of the non-serious gamer.

True flight =? You have to define it a bit, methinks...


I am currently wearing the grin that only those who know that an epic flood of 'original' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SturgeonsLaw)ideas shall be pouring in, and that it will be glorious hilarious a disaster. :thog:
Yeaaaah, I'm going to be very careful to say that Muses should approve or disapprove any suggestion players give. They are by no means obligated to allow that player to play zombie-Lincoln-with-tentacles. It's up to the Muse to determine what they want the team to look like.

True flight is like a D&D fly speed, as opposed to a hyperintelligent jellyfish's ability to hover along.


This... Is..... Amazing!
This idea has so much potential, it's not funny.

End of Campaign
And so, the evil, emotion-draining bovine was defeated by the Yellow-Tinged Jellyfish Legions after being swarmed with what looked like ordinary pies... But were really pies of +15 swordness. The Ringworld was safe again, thanks to their brave men.
...
"What are men?"
...
Okay, you. But he'll be back next time, because he's not dead... The fourth is with him.
Welcome, newcomer! It seems like you'll fit right in!

"The fourth is with him"

....

....

....

....

http://www.overthehillgamers.net/addons/autogallery/Gallery/131585348413.Epic_Face_Palm.jpg

[Drowlord]

Welcome, newcomer! It seems like you'll fit right in!

"The fourth is with him"

....

....

....

....

http://www.overthehillgamers.net/addons/autogallery/Gallery/131585348413.Epic_Face_Palm.jpg

Gotta love a game that is amazingly different from virtually any other RPGS; a crazy good, misleading, alien to everything you know, anything-is-possible sort of game whose basic principle comes with a really lame pun.

Also, seconding 0 being matter, but something you can't manipulate. Also, a concept for a not-class: takes one Energy and subtracts it for another thing. For example:
The Hyperjellyfish goes up to another living being (4 energy). He subtracts it from its knowledge (5). The creature turns into pure mass (1).
Thoughts? Too powerful?

[Welknair]

Gotta love a game that is amazingly different from virtually any other RPGS; a crazy good, misleading, alien to everything you know, anything-is-possible sort of game whose basic principle comes with a really lame pun.
This sums things up pretty well.

That reminds me, I'd like to add some quotes from this thread to the OP. This would include things like this, or what I said earlier trying to summarize the thread. If you post your favorite quotes, I'll add them to the OP.


Also, seconding 0 being matter, but something you can't manipulate. Also, a concept for a not-class: takes one Energy and subtracts it for another thing. For example:
The Hyperjellyfish goes up to another living being (4 energy). He subtracts it from its knowledge (5). The creature turns into pure mass (1).
Thoughts? Too powerful?

0 as matter: I'm currently having 0 as Space. Matter is matter, not an Energy. They're separate... things. So far pretty much everything is either: Matter, Energy, Alive, Alchemy, -ness. Alive, -ness and Alchemy tend to have Matter attached as well.

Subtraction of Energies: Hmm.. Well, first off my not-classes all follow a pretty set pattern involving being tied to one of the Energies and having a set list of abilities that scale with *mumblemumble*. Having one that does this wouldn't exactly fit. HOWEVER, it is something that would fall under the purview of Alchemies and Masteries. Hmm.. Something exactly like that would indeed be waaaay too powerful and abusable. However, it may be possible to affect energies in a similar peculiar manner. Just not that overt.

IN OTHER NEWS: I've re-written my core damage and combat mechanics in light of those previously-mentioned internal-mechanics changes. Actively working on re-writing my social combat.

[SamBurke]

Social Combat? Can haz!?!?

I am intrigued!

[Welknair]

Social Combat? Can haz!?!?

I am intrigued!

I got the term itself from Exalted, which has been the first and only game I've encountered where the social system was as fleshed out as the physical combat was.

Another essay I intended to write was on a couple tricks for identifying and classifying various Tabletop games. One of these is a look at how long certain sections of the book are. As a general rule of thumb, you can tell what you'll be spending most of your time in a game doing by how many pages are allocated to that thing. There are of course exceptions.

Look at D&D 3.5, PHB. Combat. COMBATCOMBATCOMBAT. The vast majority is combat rules, character stats FOR combat, tools for use in combat, and so forth. Many skills, some adventuring gear, and a couple other areas are notable deviations from this trend. But still, it's not hard to tell that you're going to be fighting things a lot.

Then look at Exalted. There's a large quantity spent on the default setting, showing that it will be very important. Then social combat has as much facetime as physical combat, and mass-combat makes an appearance.

4e. ... I'll leave it up to readers to determine for themselves what the page allocation is like.


Anywho! Now that I have that out of my system (Ha.. ha..), I can talk about my game a bit. Yes, I'm planning on including a fleshed-out social mechanic. I'm not aiming for my entire game to be hack-and-slash and making automated hack-and-slashers which also turn things into jellyfish that fire whimsy-lasers.

I think I've mentioned earlier that there will be three "Tiers" of not-classes. An entire tier will be devoted to social abilities.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Reading about your first playtest makes sense to me (behind with current conversation, I know) because due to its often foreign concepts, its hard to...wrap your brain around. This only fuels the desire to play and understand it in my mind, however my mind is not like many (thankfully). However, it can defineately be observed that this might not be everyone's type of game...most likely why you've labeled anyone who has praised this game as insane. :smallbiggrin:

I can see one disadvantage to this type of game is the quality of a Muse. Muses that both understand the mechanics effectively and provide all the details for each campaign (since much of what is in the universe is dependent on the Muse). Some lesser creative people that still would like to run a game would benifit from a list of examples of some sort...though that might stunt creativity as well...I'm sure you know what you're doing. Just observing.

I see you've created a section for creating character types, which can be dependent on the Muse and/or the Player. A swarm of objects making up a whole, where two of the objects are some sort of weapon-ness of some sort, while others function as other uses come to mind. Sort of like the rock monster from Metroid Prime (though this creature surely did not originate with this game). You might also put in that they must be able to communicate in some fashion (though this can be anything, such as speak, sounds, telepathy, or even making images out of the form of your body, as my rock swarm might).

This game as a whole reminds me of Phillip Jose Farmer's "World of Tiers" Series in some small capacity. Have you ever read these? If not, I recommend them.

[Dimonite]

This could be the first game to actually let me play a dragonpuppy! SO. MUCH. HAPPY. (flight wouldn't be a problem, the wings are mostly decorative anyway. Also, playing with gravity would help that...)

[Drowlord]

Yes, finally, something not just hack and slash!
Also, somebody really needs to start a Fourthland Puns collection. I see many of them... Very many...

R2-D2? Why are you moving so fast? Oh, two is motion. Never mind...

...
Apart from that, gentlemen, I do see that is crazily a usable, and I just meant something generally like that
Or something.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

"Oh man, I want to hide this in something, and make sure no one can get to it."

"Oh, just hide it in this Lock-ness Monster!"

[Welknair]

Reading about your first playtest makes sense to me (behind with current conversation, I know) because due to its often foreign concepts, its hard to...wrap your brain around. This only fuels the desire to play and understand it in my mind, however my mind is not like many (thankfully). However, it can defineately be observed that this might not be everyone's type of game...most likely why you've labeled anyone who has praised this game as insane. :smallbiggrin:
Yeah, this is the game for the people the weird people consider weird. But frankly, in my experience, weird roughly correlates to awesome.


I can see one disadvantage to this type of game is the quality of a Muse. Muses that both understand the mechanics effectively and provide all the details for each campaign (since much of what is in the universe is dependent on the Muse). Some lesser creative people that still would like to run a game would benifit from a list of examples of some sort...though that might stunt creativity as well...I'm sure you know what you're doing. Just observing.
This is very true, and something I've been continually trying to cope with. True Fourthlanders are a rare bunch, and I need to find ways to make the game a little more accessible to people that aren't as completely insane as we are. This is part of why I included the entire "Progressive Disclosure" system, and why four-dimensional-space is going to be an optional rule. I also intend to include a sizable Muse-guide, trying to give hints on how to handle such a profoundly alien game. Examples and suggestions ought to abound.


I see you've created a section for creating character types, which can be dependent on the Muse and/or the Player. A swarm of objects making up a whole, where two of the objects are some sort of weapon-ness of some sort, while others function as other uses come to mind. Sort of like the rock monster from Metroid Prime (though this creature surely did not originate with this game). You might also put in that they must be able to communicate in some fashion (though this can be anything, such as speak, sounds, telepathy, or even making images out of the form of your body, as my rock swarm might).
Very interesting! I need to tweak some things, but I want to make this sort of creativity fully supported and greatly encouraged.


This game as a whole reminds me of Phillip Jose Farmer's "World of Tiers" Series in some small capacity. Have you ever read these? If not, I recommend them.
I have not! I'm looking them up now.


This could be the first game to actually let me play a dragonpuppy! SO. MUCH. HAPPY. (flight wouldn't be a problem, the wings are mostly decorative anyway. Also, playing with gravity would help that...):smallbiggrin:


Yes, finally, something not just hack and slash!I like a bit of Roleplay in my Roleplaying-Games.


Apart from that, gentlemen, I do see that is crazily a usable, and I just meant something generally like that
Or something.
Fret not, there will be weird ways of altering the world aplenty.


"Oh man, I want to hide this in something, and make sure no one can get to it."

"Oh, just hide it in this Lock-ness Monster!"
I think I just bruised my forehead.


Edit: Anyone contributing OP-worthy quotes from prior in this thread will receive a PM containing a hint about my not-classes.

[Drowlord]

*gasps*
Vote for my quote, for the fourth will be with you too!

[Welknair]

*gasps*
Vote for my quote, for the fourth will be with you too!

When I say "Contribute", I mean "Find and post a link to". The contributor need not be the original poster.

Edit:

I'd like to make a more formal advertisement for that previously mentioned MC server:

Silver Age Serious Roleplay is currently in search of new, active members that have some decent RP skill. Additionally, people skilled with building could potentially land build-team jobs, and people that are generally intelligent and can think logically (I hope everyone on this thread could be described like that) may be able to get moderator positions at some point.

The URL for our website it silverage.enjin.com, and you can find a link to the Minecraft forum post at the top bar. If you're interested in joining, read the first post of the forum thread and fill out an application.

A few things of note:
There are some big changes coming soon, most likely this weekend. If you join now, there's a chance you're character will soon perish in an... apocalypse . Still, I'd highly advocate joining sooner rather than later. You'll get a feel for the server and have a higher chance of landing a position if you want one.

Oh, and I'm one of the two whitelisters. I have total power to accept/reject applicants. So yeah, there IS that.

I'd rather this not get off topic, focusing too heavily on said server, I just wanted to spike out the opportunity to any interested. If you have any questions, please PM me or make a post on the forums I linked to.

Now! Back to Fourthland-insanity!

I thought of a new type of being.. :smalleek: It's a little frightening, but should help round things out.

[Story Time]

Hey, Welknair? How do you feel about FourthLand clothes?

You know, after the manual is copy-right registered.

[Welknair]

Hey, Welknair? How do you feel about FourthLand clothes?

You know, after the manual is copy-right registered.

You mean paraphernalia? Isn't it a bit early for that?

Nevertheless, I very much like the idea. It'd be a great way to spread the word.

[Welknair]

I did the quote-searching myself. The OP has been updated once more, this time also including some photoshop art from copyright-friend.

[SamBurke]

In a shameless attempt to get on the OP, here is my blurb for Fourthland, similar to what would be seen on the back.

You know, most games claim to challenge what you think is true, but they don't. See, when you look at fourth land, you can't assume anything. Gravity? Please, that got thrown out in minutes. Time? Linear chronology is for wimps. Liquids? Seriously, I said no assumptions! Life? Nope, not even that.

So what's the game about, then? It's a game about anything. Literally, anything: you can make a pie of swordness to slash the inside of your enemies' mouths. You can parkour your way to the sun, blast people with the raw energy of time, structure, or gravity. It's a land of ultimates, extremes, and originality. Because nothing will ever be the same.

Fourthland, the game of Abstractions.

---

Also, seconding that shameless advert for the Silver Age Server. It needs good, solid, role-players like only the Playground can find. Seriously, go join the server. We need thee.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I have finally finished back slogging and am now up to speed!. (and now that I have a compiled list of OP Welk goes in and does it. Ah well. My fourth is meaningless!)

So, while perusing and hint hunting, I came up with a list of questions. I by no means hope to have them all answered, as I know there are some that you'd rather keep secret - "Spoilers, Darling" - but I figure I'd rather ask and be nullified rather than not ask them at all. Who knows, maybe they'll be useful.

-Carrying capacity - in what way do creatures retain items? There aren't clothes, so there aren't pockets. Are there objects with "Storageness" or some such? Could a creature be an item? Or a grouping of items? I could just see someone being a sentient backpack.

-On a similar note, can a creature be imbued with a -ness? -Ness's are similar to creatures - a makeup of several energies. What is the difference then between an item and a creature besides the fourth? I guess a few other energies as well like fifth, sixth and so on, but here me out completely. If creatures cannot be imbued with -ness's, then (per a recent post) they cannot be liquid or gas, since those are -ness's. If they CAN, well that's a whole 'nother realm of possibilities.

-To go further on this limb, if creatures could be imbued, why would one need items? On could imbue parts of the body to each function. I also noticed that creatures don't need to breathe or drink water, and they don't have dangly bits for sparkly screens, so I don't think they need food either. They shouldn't. And this gives me a thought: Maybe creatures quite literally live on life. I remember somewhere you mentioning the fourth acted similarly to "XP", so maybe that's the catch - a creature must be actively seeking out the fourth in order to thrive.

-This makes me wonder a little bit more about energies themselves. Where do they come from? Are they a non-renewable resource? Or does something produce them? Over time do they decay?

-Additionally, it seems energies work similar to items. I vaguely picture each having a texture or viscosity. A malleable substance kind of like clay. That's probably not what it's like at all, but that's how I imagined it (and maybe if I was a muse that would be possible).

-Either way, drawing from an earlier point, since creatures are made up of a bunch of different energies, and energies apparently can be obtained from areas that they are, and I don't know how they can be stored (i see it unlikely a glove of bagness could hold all energies) and things don't work the way we're used to - What if when a creature obtains an energy it absorbs it to store it. There are many implications to this, such as if one absorbed enough of an energy it would take on more an more of it's quality, but I want to focus on what the creature could do with that energy. They wouldn't need to carry around an item, they could just make the -ness out of the energies and imbue it on their "hands" or where ever function would dictate. Or instead, one could remove the energy for similar functions, like the gravity clamps to steal suns, or chrono-nades. Just don't take too much out of your energies! Things could get interesting...

-Can someone affect the energy of another creature? Or one they are using- such as using an anti-version of an energy on the energy they are manipulating to cancel it out?

I tried to be short winded, and again I failed. I have more, but I'll save it for the next slump in thread talk. Gotta keep those views up! Additionally, I've written up a sheet on what has been discovered about Fourthland so far, so if you want me to send that to you to see if I got it all correctly, let me know. :smallsmile:

[jojolagger]

first of, in regards to the Silver Age Server, I'm quite interested, but between school stuff and the other projects I'm working on, I don't really have time to get back into minecraft.

Also, in regards to the 4th point in the OP, Fourth Land isn't weird. It is eccentric. Weird is the guy walking about the school with a hockey mask on, Eccentric is the kids building a radio station in their spare time.

[radmelon]

first of, in regards to the Silver Age Server, I'm quite interested, but between school stuff and the other projects I'm working on, I don't really have time to get back into minecraft.

Also, in regards to the 4th point in the OP, Fourth Land isn't weird. It is eccentric. Weird is the guy walking about the school with a hockey mask on, Eccentric is the kids building a radio station in their spare time.

Yes, but Fourthland seems to be turning into the guy building a hockey mask out of radio parts, and then using it as a mobile facial protection/telecommunications device. It's just that odd.

[Story Time]

That is some serious art in the first post... Messy, but definitely fitting the abstract theme.

[Elfstone]

That is some serious art in the first post... Messy, but definitely fitting the abstract theme.

Me gusta. Its cool.

[Welknair]

In a shameless attempt to get on the OP, here is my blurb for Fourthland, similar to what would be seen on the back.

You know, most games claim to challenge what you think is true, but they don't. See, when you look at fourth land, you can't assume anything. Gravity? Please, that got thrown out in minutes. Time? Linear chronology is for wimps. Liquids? Seriously, I said no assumptions! Life? Nope, not even that.

So what's the game about, then? It's a game about anything. Literally, anything: you can make a pie of swordness to slash the inside of your enemies' mouths. You can parkour your way to the sun, blast people with the raw energy of time, structure, or gravity. It's a land of ultimates, extremes, and originality. Because nothing will ever be the same.

Fourthland, the game of Abstractions.
Beautiful. Goin in the OP.


I have finally finished back slogging and am now up to speed!. (and now that I have a compiled list of OP Welk goes in and does it. Ah well. My fourth is meaningless!)

So, while perusing and hint hunting, I came up with a list of questions. I by no means hope to have them all answered, as I know there are some that you'd rather keep secret - "Spoilers, Darling" - but I figure I'd rather ask and be nullified rather than not ask them at all. Who knows, maybe they'll be useful.

-Carrying capacity - in what way do creatures retain items? There aren't clothes, so there aren't pockets. Are there objects with "Storageness" or some such? Could a creature be an item? Or a grouping of items? I could just see someone being a sentient backpack.

-On a similar note, can a creature be imbued with a -ness? -Ness's are similar to creatures - a makeup of several energies. What is the difference then between an item and a creature besides the fourth? I guess a few other energies as well like fifth, sixth and so on, but here me out completely. If creatures cannot be imbued with -ness's, then (per a recent post) they cannot be liquid or gas, since those are -ness's. If they CAN, well that's a whole 'nother realm of possibilities.

-To go further on this limb, if creatures could be imbued, why would one need items? On could imbue parts of the body to each function. I also noticed that creatures don't need to breathe or drink water, and they don't have dangly bits for sparkly screens, so I don't think they need food either. They shouldn't. And this gives me a thought: Maybe creatures quite literally live on life. I remember somewhere you mentioning the fourth acted similarly to "XP", so maybe that's the catch - a creature must be actively seeking out the fourth in order to thrive.

-This makes me wonder a little bit more about energies themselves. Where do they come from? Are they a non-renewable resource? Or does something produce them? Over time do they decay?

-Additionally, it seems energies work similar to items. I vaguely picture each having a texture or viscosity. A malleable substance kind of like clay. That's probably not what it's like at all, but that's how I imagined it (and maybe if I was a muse that would be possible).

-Either way, drawing from an earlier point, since creatures are made up of a bunch of different energies, and energies apparently can be obtained from areas that they are, and I don't know how they can be stored (i see it unlikely a glove of bagness could hold all energies) and things don't work the way we're used to - What if when a creature obtains an energy it absorbs it to store it. There are many implications to this, such as if one absorbed enough of an energy it would take on more an more of it's quality, but I want to focus on what the creature could do with that energy. They wouldn't need to carry around an item, they could just make the -ness out of the energies and imbue it on their "hands" or where ever function would dictate. Or instead, one could remove the energy for similar functions, like the gravity clamps to steal suns, or chrono-nades. Just don't take too much out of your energies! Things could get interesting...

-Can someone affect the energy of another creature? Or one they are using- such as using an anti-version of an energy on the energy they are manipulating to cancel it out?

I tried to be short winded, and again I failed. I have more, but I'll save it for the next slump in thread talk. Gotta keep those views up! Additionally, I've written up a sheet on what has been discovered about Fourthland so far, so if you want me to send that to you to see if I got it all correctly, let me know. :smallsmile:
Items and carrying: Think a bit about the direction this game has been going in. I don't have atoms. I don't have air. Why would I have something so mundane as "Equipped items"? As you have aptly pointed out, the concept of -ness's allows for numerous possible solutions to this issue.

Energies: Origin will likely be up to individual Muses. The way things currently work, there is a "Conservation of Energy" of sorts. Though I've defined Energies as intangible forces, I do have a vaguely visual conception of them. In one of my short stories I reference an ancient scholar who was surrounded by a yellow vortex of 3rd. And then there's also *Mumblemumble*..

Storing Energies: You've got quite a lot of Sharpness going on there. Quite. A. Lot.

Affecting Energies: This will be a major component of the game. And with a group like the one we have gathered here, you can be quite certain that they'll spend a lot of their time toying with the physics. This is what 7th is for.

Data sheet: Feel free, though do be aware that I have a million and one things going on right now. It may take a bit of time for me to get back to you on it.


Also, in regards to the 4th point in the OP, Fourth Land isn't weird. It is eccentric. Weird is the guy walking about the school with a hockey mask on, Eccentric is the kids building a radio station in their spare time.

Yes, but Fourthland seems to be turning into the guy building a hockey mask out of radio parts, and then using it as a mobile facial protection/telecommunications device. It's just that odd.
...And then using the tele-mask as a thrown weapon to jam the signals being sent to the giant robotic squid rampaging through the middle of the funny hat factory.


That is some serious art in the first post... Messy, but definitely fitting the abstract theme.


Me gusta. Its cool.
Glad you guys like it! It's decent given that he made it in a couple hours going off of some images from online. He's a decent artist, but mostly takes pre-existing images and transforms them into what he wants, which also happens to be far enough that any original copyrights no longer have effect. It's cool, but I'd rather the art in the book itself be entirely original.

[SamBurke]

YES! Shameless attempts at writing good marketing literature have been super effective!

Also, this game is going to be so complicated.

Facepalm. (http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2004-12-08/)

[Story Time]

Well, it was kind of a good snippet.

[TravelLog]

"Complicated" things is insufficient to describe this game.

Awesome.

[Durksmurf]

I have been lirking this for a while.
Time to contribute.

I would like one standing "Law" of the game. Cause and Effect. You use your Life energy to say, animate an object. It succeds. Your target object is animated AND somewhere far away (or close) a random effect of Life energy happens to the same level of animation you used on the object.
Just my two cents. (you can have 3 if you want:smallbiggrin:)

[Welknair]

I have been lirking this for a while.
Time to contribute.

I would like one standing "Law" of the game. Cause and Effect. You use your Life energy to say, animate an object. It succeds. Your target object is animated AND somewhere far away (or close) a random effect of Life energy happens to the same level of animation you used on the object.
Just my two cents. (you can have 3 if you want:smallbiggrin:)

Ah a newcomer! Welcome to the brave world of POSTING! :smallbiggrin:

I do have a type of "Cause and Effect" type deal in my game. There is no "Free" manipulation of energy. If you want to boost your buddy's First, it means you're going to have to lower your own a bit. I have a number of rules and mechanics to moderate this and it is intended to be a significant part of the game. Certain Alchemies may result in more far-ranging Energy-based effects.

Random note:

Energies v Alchemies v -Ness's (Functions)

Energy: There's 12 main ones. They can go up and down. Pretty much everything will have some Structure (First) and Energies are needed to make pretty much everything else in existence.

Alchemy: An "Alchemy" is something made with Energies and has some sort of stranger function. A favorite of mine is the "Interpretation Engine" which causes the Melded vessel to treat certain -Ness's as others.

http://img.booru.org/grognard//images/24/c1c10e4c3a608ac2b97f785816ec6429a5201e74.jpg
A sort of "Converter" would be an Alchemy. Something that, say, tried to reverse any inertia entering a given field would be an Alchemy (Probably requiring a lot of Second and Seventh to function). You can think of Alchemies as sort of Energy Machines that accomplish various tasks too complicated for a Ness.

Ness's: A basic function. Swordness is our most famous example. All types of matter have a specific Ness about them. Liquidness, particulateness, flexibleness and so on.. It is not advisable to apply such a Ness to a living being (I think it may not be possible). Ness's can be created by combining Energies and are much easier to make than Alchemies. I think that players may be allowed to apply up to four Ness's to themselves at a time.

Note: Alchemies and Ness's are still experimental. The majority of my work has been on Shapes and Energies. With these alone the game is playable. I obviously want to see Alchemies and Ness's become an integral part of the game and it is obvious that the players I'm looking to appeal to will spend most of their time toying with these. As a result, I need to be eeeeextra careful when I make 'em. My current project.

[SamBurke]

You're giving us all that?

Brave soul. I'll play a good song at your funeral.

:smallbiggrin:

[Amechra]

Yes! Now to gorge on ideas, so that we may devour his exquisite corpse.

In other news; the Risus+Nomic project kinda evolved... into me starting on making my own interpretation of Bequeathed a Rotting Kingdom.

The thread that is about the game is here. (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?390518-Game-Create-a-Game-Through-Spoilers)

So, yeah, if you want to help me playtest something based off of the link, I'll need testers.

Sorry to distract the thread, just thought I would get some vampiric-advertisement out.

[Welknair]

Yes! Now to gorge on ideas, so that we may devour his exquisite corpse.

In other news; the Risus+Nomic project kinda evolved... into me starting on making my own interpretation of Bequeathed a Rotting Kingdom.

The thread that is about the game is here. (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?390518-Game-Create-a-Game-Through-Spoilers)

So, yeah, if you want to help me playtest something based off of the link, I'll need testers.

Sorry to distract the thread, just thought I would get some vampiric-advertisement out.

Ooh, definitely interested in RisuNomic! I can't seem to figure out which one is you, though. Can't seem to find an "Amechra". I'd also suggest making a thread on these boards somewhere on the topic for easy discussion. It seems like you have a pretty lively conversation going on over there, though!

And yeah, I figured you guys would be able to have a field day with that much. Obviously the homebrewing of Alchemies is going to be a pretty big thing.

Edit: I've been meaning to post a link to this comic (http://blankitcomics.com/2008/06/08/blankit-0001/) for a while now. It's a bit slow to update, but it's total-crazy-ness level is pretty up there, engendering a similar feel of "Everything you know about the world is wrong". And it has TALKING COOKIES. THE KING WILL HEAR OF THIS!

[Amechra]

... That thread has nothing to do with Risunomics.

Look at the dates; I'm not over there (I started gaming in '09, which, now that I think about it, was a long time ago.), but I've always wanted to make a game based off it.

So Risunomics is going on hold (ultimately, I'm having a few problems in breaking down the rules; nothing big, its just I'm too busy right now to make sure I got it right.), while I tackle making all of that into a cohesive setting in which I can place an RPG.

No worries, eh? (I relax in the oddest ways...)

[Welknair]

... That thread has nothing to do with Risunomics.

Look at the dates; I'm not over there (I started gaming in '09, which, now that I think about it, was a long time ago.), but I've always wanted to make a game based off it.

So Risunomics is going on hold (ultimately, I'm having a few problems in breaking down the rules; nothing big, its just I'm too busy right now to make sure I got it right.), while I tackle making all of that into a cohesive setting in which I can place an RPG.

No worries, eh? (I relax in the oddest ways...)

Ohhhh! I should have thought to check dates. And wow. I made my forum account here in 2009. GOSH DARN TWELFTH, SNEAKING UP ON ME.

As long as you're maintaing the fundamentals of Nomic, do note that any rules you include at the start are more than likely going to change. All you need is a basic framework for things to start from. I still very much look forward to seeing what you come up with!

[Story Time]

You're giving us all that?

Indeed. Please wait until the manual is complete and registered before laying out broad strokes of text, Welknair.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I think the artist M.C. Escher would have have a field day playing this game. Imagine how many of his artworks would be entirely possible, if not the NORM.

"Wait. Is my apartment on upside-down level Red next door to the Duck-Squids or is on rightside-up level 5 diagonal to Gareth, the Goblin King?"

"Both, duh."

"Oh that's right! I must have lost some Fifth in that last Alchemy."

[Welknair]

Indeed. Please wait until the manual is complete and registered before laying out broad strokes of text, Welknair.

I've been thinking a bit about this issue. In short, this is my first real venture into the world of publishing and proper game-making. The way I work, I kind of feed off of forum responses. You guys encourage me to continue and help guide my creation of the game. I'm not posting any of the actual text from the book, and thus there won't be any direct copyright problems. As for idea-stealing:

1. Who is honesty going to steal these ideas? I recognize that you guys believe them to be very cool, but the fact is that this game will be extremely niche.

2. If they DO steal my ideas, then hey. If they can make my game to the level where it's popular and widespread, I'll do a little victory dance. Proof of concept, baby. I can make something with that much potential. "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery"

3. If they do steal my ideas, so what? The main people I want to get this game are right here on this thread, or other people I'm in direct contact with. They'll know that whatever game was made based on my ideas isn't mine. I can still freely finish my own, possibly with a couple of name changes (But I doubt they can trademark "Energy" or "Shape". Pretty generic as-is).

The worst thing I could possibly see happening is someone grabbing these ideas and mass-marketing them, twisting them away from what I originally intended. But I really, really doubt that will happen.

I am young. I am creative. I doubt that this will be the last game I ever make. This is a learning experience for me. I require feedback for my creative process, and it's difficult to get the level I'd like with only people I know IRL. If I have to be paranoid to market and sell this game, maybe I shouldn't do so. I want to give you guys the best game I can make, and frankly I don't see that happening when I'm sitting here in a bubble.

I currently plan to plod on as I have been, but I have resolved to be a little less concerned that everyone's out to steal my ideas. To me, getting my game out there and played is infinitely more important than making money. If it comes to it, I could just post the whole thing free online. I stil fully intend to market and publish it, but it won't be the end of the world if someone beats me to it.

Of course this all doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to start handing out specifics all over the place. The above post is almost entirely recap of things that have previously been mentioned, plus an update.

Energies and -Ness's: Nothing new here, save for the potential to apply -Ness's to a player, which you guys had jumped to long ago. That, and that there's some sort of balance in Energies, which I believe I alluded to earlier.

Alchemies: I'd previously talked the least about these. But I made the description here intentionally open-ended. THEY MAKE WIERD THINGS HAPPEN. The point was to get you guys going with some more crazy ideas.


What are everyone's opinions here? My impression is that I've long since passed the line where people wouldn't be able to make a work that resembled mine based off the ideas in this thread. I don't see the harm in giving my followers a little more to work with. If many of you agree, though, I suppose I could resume being extra-careful about how much information I dole out.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

What are everyone's opinions here? My impression is that I've long since passed the line where people wouldn't be able to make a work that resembled mine based off the ideas in this thread. I don't see the harm in giving my followers a little more to work with. If many of you agree, though, I suppose I could resume being extra-careful about how much information I dole out.

You and me work similarly, at least in this sense. I think best bouncing ideas off of other people. Sometimes, people make comments that make you go "Ooo! I really like/want to do that!" Other times while explaining something, an idea comes out of the explination. Best of all, feed back allows someone who is outside of the information look into it and give you honest, uninfluenced reception. So, naturally, I agree with your thoughts.

And by all means, don't put all the information out at once! Part of the creativity we've had has been because you limit this! Plus it allows you to test out specific sections on us without having us look at the whole.

As for the whole idea stealing...it's no good having a heart attack worrying about project hijacking - but just remember to take precautions, which it seems you are doing. As you said, keep quotes out of here, and in a more private setting (if you plan on presenting the source to us at a point). Google Docs is a good one, and there's another I can't remember the name of.

In other words, I think you've got the right thinking about this! Though, I for one love the hints! Mysteries and riddles are certainly something of which I'm fond.

[Amechra]

Yeah, you are right in the theft; for my current project, I'm stealing from stuff like Risus and Continuum to get inspiration for how combats involving an amalgam of Time Travel, Psychic Powers, Memetic Social Engineering, Super-Tech Hacking, and good ol' Fisticuffs.

I hope it will work...

[SamBurke]

Also, seconding MC Escher. Because non-standard gravity and spatial dimensions is just awesome.

[Virdish]

Still reading and compiling my list of hints and knowledge but color me immensely intrigued. I started reading this thread as a sort of idea board for steps I'll have to do for my own game and I think in the last couple hours of reading I have suffered so many mindsplosions that I may have to seek medical attention before I no longer am able to form rationale thought. I'm not completely done reading yet but Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.

[Welknair]

You and me work similarly, at least in this sense. I think best bouncing ideas off of other people. Sometimes, people make comments that make you go "Ooo! I really like/want to do that!" Other times while explaining something, an idea comes out of the explination. Best of all, feed back allows someone who is outside of the information look into it and give you honest, uninfluenced reception. So, naturally, I agree with your thoughts.

And by all means, don't put all the information out at once! Part of the creativity we've had has been because you limit this! Plus it allows you to test out specific sections on us without having us look at the whole.

As for the whole idea stealing...it's no good having a heart attack worrying about project hijacking - but just remember to take precautions, which it seems you are doing. As you said, keep quotes out of here, and in a more private setting (if you plan on presenting the source to us at a point). Google Docs is a good one, and there's another I can't remember the name of.

In other words, I think you've got the right thinking about this! Though, I for one love the hints! Mysteries and riddles are certainly something of which I'm fond.

:smallbiggrin: I do intend to continue with my basic precautions, and have no plans to stop with the hints! Those are half the fun!


Yeah, you are right in the theft; for my current project, I'm stealing from stuff like Risus and Continuum to get inspiration for how combats involving an amalgam of Time Travel, Psychic Powers, Memetic Social Engineering, Super-Tech Hacking, and good ol' Fisticuffs.

I hope it will work...
I'm sure it'll turn out amazingly. I'd be very surprised if it didn't.


Also, seconding MC Escher. Because non-standard gravity and spatial dimensions is just awesome.
Imagine trying to have grid-combat in one of those. :smalleek:


Still reading and compiling my list of hints and knowledge but color me immensely intrigued. I started reading this thread as a sort of idea board for steps I'll have to do for my own game and I think in the last couple hours of reading I have suffered so many mindsplosions that I may have to seek medical attention before I no longer am able to form rationale thought. I'm not completely done reading yet but Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.

I hope you don't mind I sig'd the last bit of that! :smallbiggrin:

[Virdish]

Not at all I am honored to make the Sig. This is so much to take in. I will need some time to fully digest all that you have put out.

[Welknair]

I will need some time to fully digest all that you have put out.

Given you've been reading through the thread, I'd assume you know that this is by no means an uncommon response. It takes a bit of getting used to, but once you do you'll be eating Swordness Pie along with the rest of us. :smallbiggrin:

Random observation: 8,000 views is coming up! I think I may have some goodies when it rolls around.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Given you've been reading through the thread, I'd assume you know that this is by no means an uncommon response. It takes a bit of getting used to, but once you do you'll be eating Swordness Pie along with the rest of us. :smallbiggrin:

Random observation: 8,000 views is coming up! I think I may have some goodies when it rolls around.

HECK YEAH! Maybe some of those not-classes we've heard so little about? :smallwink:

[Welknair]

HECK YEAH! Maybe some of those not-classes we've heard so little about? :smallwink:

I was thinking along the lines of allowing four questions to be asked, which I would answer quite truthfully (Although not necessarily entirely. I have a bit of experience with Players and Divinations). This would be on a first-come-first-serve basis, with no one being able to ask more than a single question. I'd assume you may want to strategize about your questions before asking them.

Though if it is the popular opinion, I may be able to give a couple of Shape tidbits instead.

[Virdish]

With this croud giving four questions would surely need a thread devoted to our discussions of which questions we should ask. It would be at least a week before the first question was asked. We would all be fat on swordness pies by the time we put the first sentence of our epic questions together.

[Welknair]

With this croud giving four questions would surely need a thread devoted to our discussions of which questions we should ask. It would be at least a week before the first question was asked. We would all be fat on swordness pies by the time we put the first sentence of our epic questions together.

Inb4legaldocuments? Hmm.. Do you have an alternative proposal?

[Virdish]

No I love your idea. Just saying that you have a rather particular following. We would all want to achieve the most insight out of any question we put forth.

[Welknair]

No I love your idea. Just saying that you have a rather particular following. We would all want to achieve the most insight out of any question we put fourth.

I think I'll likely go with that, then! :smallbiggrin: As per Wombat, yall may wish to ask something about the not-classes (I've called them Shapes enough times that you ought to know that's their name). I'm perfectly fine with question-conjecture being posted on this thread - the more activity the better! Once four posters vote for a single question, said question will be answered. Discussion may begin now, though obviously no questions will be answered before we hit 8,000 views (Which will more than likely be sometime tonight).

Edit: Of course asking for any direct quotes from the work, or specifics on mechanics, will not be met with success. *See basic precautions, discussed a bit earlier*

[MageSparrowhawk]

I second the question about shapes, and motion to specify it further to what exactly they do for a character.

[Welknair]

I second the question about shapes, and motion to specify it further to what exactly they do for a character.

Counting Wombat's suggestion as a question-vote, that is now two votes for Shape-details. And no, I will not be keeping tally after every single vote. Just occasionally to make sure everyone's on the same page with this thing.

Edit: Retracting the two-vote-count. I'm going to specify that it must be four posters that all post identical, fully-phrased questions.

[Virdish]

I think something needs to be asked about the tier system that Welknair has talked so much about. It seems to honestly be a base for the character in it's entirety as he has mentioned that one of the tiers will be social. Either we somehow need to work this into the shape question or make it a question of it's own.

[Welknair]

I think something needs to be asked about the tier system that Welknair has talked so much about. It seems to honestly be a base for the character in it's entirety as he has mentioned that one of the tiers will be social. Either we somehow need to work this into the shape question or make it a question of it's own.

And so it begins. (http://muwhahaha.com/)

Edit: And there it is. Just passed 8k. May the questions roll.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Gentlemen, Ladies and Lurkers! In light of the current windfall of possible information, I'd like to input what we already know so that we may better identify what we do not.

Elements:We know there is a Zero energy called space, as well as 12 energies. The 1st is Structure, 2nd is Movement, Fourth is Life. Fifth is Mind or Knowledge and Sixth is Emotion or Temperament (Though we have not found the exact titles). Seventh has been mentioned many times and mistaken to be Gravity, but it is not. I at least don't know what it is. Ninth is Light, and Tenth is Heat (anti-heat of course being Cold). Eleventh is Gravity (as one playtest, someone stole the moon with it...and the sun) and Twelveth is Time (just was confirmed, but after the hidden text about the numbers on the clock, I had a suspicion).
We also know the first 8 energies represent a player's stats. Everything is made up of energy. Life represents XP, and Time doesn't go backwards, only slows or speeds.
Messing with Energies drains energies from you.

Alchemy and -ness's:Ness's are functions, Alchemy are more complicated or multiple functions in one. They are made up of different energies. These can be applied to "items" and function supersedes form. The rest may be subject to change.

Cycles:There are 3 Cycles in Fourthland, though we do not know the meaning of them or significance: Grand Cycle, Mother Cycle, Father Cycle. (and maybe a Cycle Cycle)

Shapes:There are 3 Tiers of Shapes. Players get to pick one from each tier. We know one from each tier at the moment. 1st Tier - Shaper, 2nd Tier - The Forge, 3rd Tier - Inventive

Mechanics: The game is set in stages of "progressive disclosure" where one can choose a basic build of the game, or descend farther into madness the more stages added. It is playable by 2-6 players, with 4 as recommended.
-----
Things I feel would be good to put to question:
Shapes (as mentioned before)
The last 3 energies-3,7,8 (and maybe a more certain label to 5 and 6).
What in the world is Tick, Tock, Click, Clack, Arc, Circle, Cycle, Grand Cycle, Mother, Father? (needs better phrasing).

Also, we must phrase these questions wisely. I have experience in DMing wishes in D & D, and it would be advisable to find a question devoid of loopholes. Still, probability dictates we will flub up at least one of them. This is why I presented 3 subjects. Anyone else have some ideas or would like to edit or add to my information?

(we also might want to question some of the hidden texts, such as the list of bonds in the first page)

[SamBurke]

Indeed. I can help with the "legalese" work.

Personally, I'd like to see a written text of how a play test went. Either that, or listen in on a Skype call of the players playing, if possible (though that's probably a blatant invasion of privacy... :smallredface:).

I'd place a priority not on the energies, but how they work. The cycles is also a good topic, imo.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Ok, so for the Cycles then...what do we want to know? Part of being specific is knowing enough details about them to do so, and we don't...so it's going to be tricky. What if it were something like: How do the Grand, Mother and Father Cycles relate to the Fourth? Or...What is the significance of the Grand, Mother and Father Cycles?

[Amechra]

Alright, my votes as to questions:

What are the names and equivalent concepts of the following energies: 3, 5, 6, 7, 8?

What are the cycles, explained in the most straight-forward manner that you possibly can achieve, without the answer being a variation of the sentiment "I can't tell you"?

I can't think of any others, but here are initial, small loop-hole questions.

The first is phrased the way it is just in case a given Energy has a confusing name, or he obfuscates a given name.

The second is phrased in such a way that he can't answer with a riddle :smallwink:.

I am assuming for the purpose of these questions that nothing Welknair reveals to us will be a lie by addition, with his answers being limited to the truth and lies of omission. Are these correct surmises?

(Note: The last question in this post is not about Fourthland itself, and therefor is not included in the 4 questions we get to ask you.)

[SamBurke]

I think "How are the cycles significant" is in the vein of the questions we want to ask.

[Welknair]

Alright, my votes as to questions:

What are the names and equivalent concepts of the following energies: 3, 5, 6, 7, 8?

I am assuming for the purpose of these questions that nothing Welknair reveals to us will be a lie by addition, with his answers being limited to the truth and lies of omission. Are these correct surmises?

(Note: The last question in this post is not about Fourthland itself, and therefor is not included in the 4 questions we get to ask you.)

Energy question: I think I ought to put a rule in place that you cannot have multi-part questions. If I don't, you'd be able to string as many as you like together. If you want to know the identities of all those energies, you'll need a separate question for each. Or I suppose you could try a more creative wording in an attempt to get me to reveal information on more than one.

Truthfullness: This is entirely correct. I said at the start of this that I will be entirely truthful, but will maintain the power to limit my responses to a degree I see fitting.

Not a question: Fully bold any question you're voting for. You ought only do this when you have the wording worked out to a point your satisfied with and so on. This ought to help clear up any confusion or worry about me accidentally answering one of your questions you didn't intend me to.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Energy question: I think I ought to put a rule in place that you cannot have multi-part questions. If I don't, you'd be able to string as many as you like together. If you want to know the identities of all those energies, you'll need a separate question for each. Or I suppose you could try a more creative wording in an attempt to get me to reveal information on more than one.

Would the question about the cycles I worded earlier: "What is the significance of the Grand, Mother and Father Cycles?" apply to this ruling?


Truthfullness: This is entirely correct. I said at the start of this that I will be entirely truthful, but will maintain the power to limit my responses to a degree I see fitting.

If you are asked a question you cannot answer, will not answer or do not have an answer to, would you give us our question back or is it spent?

[Welknair]

Would the question about the cycles I worded earlier: "What is the significance of the Grand, Mother and Father Cycles?" apply to this ruling?
No, as long as you aren't looking for specific descriptions of each.


If you are asked a question you cannot answer, will not answer or do not have an answer to, would you give us our question back or is it spent?
Yes, I would. Though I think I'm active enough on this thread to point out no-answers before they get the full four votes.

[Virdish]

For the energies obviously thefirst 8 would be the most important for us to know at this point since we all I am sure are already trying to create characters in our head. So perhaps a variation on the wording of "what are the first 8 energies"

[SamBurke]

For the energies obviously thefirst 8 would be the most important for us to know at this point since we all I am sure are already trying to create characters in our head. So perhaps a variation on the wording of "what are the first 8 energies"

I think that's a pretty good question.

VOTE: What are the First Eight Energies and the element or idea they represent?

Underlined for voting.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

No, as long as you aren't looking for specific descriptions of each.


Yes, I would. Though I think I'm active enough on this thread to point out no-answers before they get the full four votes.

True enough. I thought of that but wanted to see my wiggle room anyway. :smallsmile: Speaking of wiggle room, can we assume you will answer in english, and not some other language such as bianary, fictional, ?


What are the cycles, explained in the most straight-forward manner that you possibly can achieve, without the answer being a variation of the sentiment "I can't tell you"?

"What are the cycles" could lead to him answering with a list of the cycles. As Sam said, I think we should be following the "What is the significance" venture...How about: "How would you explain the significance of the Grand, Father and Mother Cycles in the Fourthland omniverse to one who does not know anything about them?"

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I think that's a pretty good question.

VOTE: What are the First Eight Energies and the element or idea they represent?

Underlined for voting.

What about: "What are the First Eight Energies and their basic concepts?"

[SamBurke]

What about: "What are the First Eight Energies and their basic concepts?"

That's close enough to my vote. Let's do it!

[Welknair]

What about: "What are the First Eight Energies and their basic concepts?"

Multi-question alert. This could be separated into "What are the First Eight Energies?" and "What are the basic concepts of the First Eight Energies?". And even then, do realize that a general question will be met with a general answer.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Multi-question alert. This could be separated into "What are the First Eight Energies?" and "What are the basic concepts of the First Eight Energies?". And even then, do realize that a General Question (salutes) will be met with a General Answer (salutes) .

Hmmm. Point. So folks! We need to decide whether we want what each is or how the 8 energies work to create a creature (since they represent the stats so that's their basic concept).

Or we'll need to be more specific. What if it were something like: "If I were to use each energy one by one, what would be the result of each in turn?" Or: "What would be good examples of manipulating each of the 12 energies."

[SamBurke]

Hmmm. Point. So folks! We need to decide whether we want what each is or how the 8 energies work to create a creature (since they represent the stats so that's their basic concept).

Or we'll need to be more specific. What if it were something like: "If I were to use each energy one by one, what would be the result of each in turn?" Or: "What would be good examples of manipulating each of the 12 energies."

Too broad is my best guess of his answer.

I do like splitting the question of the energies and asking two, "What are they" and "What do they do?"

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Too broad is my best guess of his answer.

I do like splitting the question of the energies and asking two, "What are they" and "What do they do?"

Perhaps it is too broad, but my arguement is I ask not what the identity is, I just want an example of how I could manipulate each one. Though he could be very vague, such as for 11th - Steal the moon. Well that tells me nothing.

...I think I just invalidated my own arguement. Excellent. Moving on, I'm with Sam. However, perhaps we can specify things a bit more, so that we don't get a broad answer.

I wonder if he'll be answering per agreed one or all four at once. I think if it's the latter it might be wise to save the second two in case the first two inspire further questions.

[Virdish]

Splitting the questions works because both are highly important questions.

[Dimonite]

*ahem*
"In regards to the first eight energies, what would be the result of the most common/direct manipulation of each?"

Perhaps that would work? Also, I would definitely like to know more about shapes.

[SamBurke]

*ahem*
"In regards to the first eight energies, what would be the result of the most common/direct manipulation of each?"

Perhaps that would work? Also, I would definitely like to know more about shapes.

Works for me.

I too want to know about the "Not-classes."

[TheWombatOfDoom]

So, gents. It seems we have four potential questions. I wanted to wait for other fourthland "veterans" to put in their two sense, since they've been around awhile, so I'm going to propose one that has not been argued:

For nomination:

How would you explain the significance of the Grand, Father and Mother Cycles in the Fourthland omniverse to one who does not know anything about them?

[jojolagger]

So, gents. It seems we have four potential questions. I wanted to wait for other fourthland "veterans" to put in their two sense, since they've been around awhile, so I'm going to propose one that has not been argued:

For nomination:

How would you explain the significance of the Grand, Father and Mother Cycles in the Fourthland omniverse to one who does not know anything about them?

Other than their names.

Add that. not sure how badly it could be mangled without it, but specifics are always nice.

[SamBurke]

It's got my vote.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Other than their names.

Add that. not sure how badly it could be mangled without it, but specifics are always nice.

I think that it's fine the way it is...I name the names in the question, and it makes the question more awkward adding other than their names...plus i say in the question what is their significance. so stating more specifics just overly complicates the question.

[SamBurke]

I think that it's fine the way it is...I name the names in the question, and it makes the question more awkward adding other than their names...plus i say in the question what is their significance. so stating more specifics just overly complicates the question.

Indeed. I don't think Welk is out to put us down so obviously: it'll be a riddle, not a cheat.

[Welknair]

Indeed. I don't think Welk is out to put us down so obviously: it'll be a riddle, not a cheat.

Quite correct. I wouldn't have set this up if I intended to give you a useless answer.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

It's got my vote.

So I'd say that's +3 for How would you explain the significance of the Grand, Father and Mother Cycles in the Fourthland omniverse to one who does not know anything about them? if we count jojolagger.

[jojolagger]

So I'd say that's +3 for How would you explain the significance of the Grand, Father and Mother Cycles in the Fourthland omniverse to one who does not know anything about them? if we count jojolagger.
Yeah, count me. not thinking entirely straight, end of school and all.

[Virdish]

Adding my vote to

How would you explain the significance of the Grand, Father and Mother Cycles in the Fourthland omniverse to one who does not know anything about them?

[Welknair]

DING DING DING DING! First question issued:

How would you explain the significance of the Grand, Father and Mother Cycles in the Fourthland omniverse to one who does not know anything about them?

Answer: Grand, Father and Mother cycles are the last three of the phases, of which there are ten in total. Beings in Fourthland do not live linear lives as we do, but instead cycle about, through existence and non-existence, with the periods growing longer each time. The Mother Cycle is the longest of these and precedes the repetition of the Full Cycle.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I don't think we could have gotten more out of that other than asking about the cycles as a whole. Even then - the answer would have likely been even more general than the current one. I'm pleased with the result.

Interestingly enough, while he mentions Full coming after Mother, it's Tick on the line up of ten (tick,tock,click,clack,so on). Not sure, but since he speaks of existence and non, perhaps the converse of each cycle is the non. Tick's converse is Tock. So maybe Full Cycle and then Empty? I wonder what the differences are to each. Haha. Questions always lead to questions, and I think these we won't find answers to without sacrificing some of the other causes.

On a related note, I love that he Dinged four times.
(EDIT: I now also think I understand his "bianary" hint, where "10" is repeated over and over)

So...what are we asking next? :smallsmile:

[Amechra]

Cyclical existence, eh?

How delightfully quaint.

[SamBurke]

EPIC!

We also can generally look at the question and answer as precedent for Welk's answers.

What now?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

EPIC!

We also can generally look at the question and answer as precedent for Welk's answers.

What now?

How about - What are the First Eight Energies in the Fourthland Concept?

[Virdish]

How about - What are the First Eight Energies in the Fourthland Concept?

I second the vote for What are the first eight energies in the fourthland concept.

[Welknair]

Starting next thursday, I ought to have a couple fewer things on my plate, and hopefully I can really buckle down on the writing. Watching Man of La Mancha is a good way to stimulate the imagination.


And to those that care, the giant apocalypse event on the RP server I frequent went exceedingly well, though we're having technical difficulties reopening in the new world. I was promoted to Admin, and TheWombatofDoom and SamBurke are both being promoted, though I'm not 100% of their new position names.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Starting next thursday, I ought to have a copule fewer things on my plate, and hopefully I can really buckle down on the writing. Watching Man of La Mancha is a good way to stimulate the imagination.


And to those that care, the giant apocalypse event on the RP server I frequent went exceedingly well, though we're having technical difficulties reopening in the new world. I was promoted to Admin, and TheWombatofDoom and SamBurke are both being promoted, though I'm not 100% of their new position names.

Horray for less distractions! Man of La Mancha...never heard of it. Deets?

I never expected to be so freely accepted and instantly valued. I'm still rather shocked at how I've become swept up in the tides of Silver Age! :) I believe I'm becoming permanent Build staff or even Moderator status and sam is being promoted to Moderator as well. I've been enjoying the plotting that has been going on surrounding my character. That poor, poor man.

[Welknair]

Horray for less distractions! Man of La Mancha...never heard of it. Deets?

I never expected to be so freely accepted and instantly valued. I'm still rather shocked at how I've become swept up in the tides of Silver Age! :) I believe I'm becoming permanent Build staff or even Moderator status and sam is being promoted to Moderator as well. I've been enjoying the plotting that has been going on surrounding my character. That poor, poor man.

Not watching Man of La Mancha ought to be considered as heinous an offense as not watching Princess Bride! In all seriousness, Man of La Mancha is the movie adaptation of the famous spanish play "Don Quixote de la Mancha", written by the famous playwright Don Miguel de Cervantes. I hear there have been two such adaptations, but I've only ever seen the first. The story of Don Quixote is the spanish equivalent of Romeo and Juliet, in terms of prestige. The story is obviously quiiiite a bit different.

The story follows a man by the name Alonso Quejana, a lesser nobleman in later life. He reads book upon book and becomes disillusioned with the world, hearing far too much of the treachery of man. He gives up on being sane, and decides to be crazy instead. He declares himself Knight Errant and "Sallies Forth" to fight evil, with his still-sane-neighbor as his squire. It is a story of reality versus nonreality, cynicism versus idealism. One of my favorites.



Something I think we sometimes forget here on the OotS forums is that we are a minority. There aren't many of us, though we hang out with our own kind. When we actually get involved elsewhere, it shouldn't be surprising our talents are recognized. And on the Silverage server, we can use every capable set of hands we can get. The two of you have been an enormous help, and I look forward to playing with you in the near future!

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Ah! Don Quixote de la Mancha I'm actually familar with, to some degree. I've read a few of the stories (though not all, as it was at a library I was reading at). I enjoyed what I read! I've never seen any of the films or such. I'll have to see if I can find them...

I do often forget we are a minority, as I have had several attempts to assimilate some for D & D, to no great success. Though, I have had one small victory! One of my good female friends LOVES D & D now and wants to play all the time. I may be able to get a campaign going regularly again with her, her boyfriend (who also plays and is a close friend), and...well I don't know. (I like having 4 or 5 in a party.)

I look forward to it as well. I'm currently writing backstory. And more back story.

Anywho! FourthLand! Is it strange that when I see things like "Fourth Street" and "First National Bank" I inevitably think of fourthland's elements, and the strange puns that ensue that no one else understands?

I don't know if you've broken me, or caused me to assend to a higher level of Pun speak.

[Welknair]

Anywho! FourthLand! Is it strange that when I see things like "Fourth Street" and "First National Bank" I inevitably think of fourthland's elements, and the strange puns that ensue that no one else understands?

I don't know if you've broken me, or caused me to assend to a higher level of Pun speak.

"Punsel tongue", if you will! :smalltongue:

I think we all have that problem to some degree.

[Xechon]

Curse you gmail, for not notifying me of fourthland updates sooner!

Anyway, now that I'm all caught up, I have a few things to say:

Silver Age- Am I too late to join? I don't know any of the schedules, but I don't have very much of a life, and would love to hop aboard.

Stealing ideas/minecraft- You see where this is going. Now, I would never just up and take your mind-product, but something I've been thinking of is; fourthland, minecraft based rpg. Essentially a ton of mods in a pack such as you would find on the technic launcher. I can't code java yet, but I'm learning, and eventually I'd love to see this happen, and I belive some others would too.

Minority- I am a simulationist, and very analytical. I like to take ideas, and change them to my mindset, my ultimite design. So it's no surprise that the first thing I did when I was hooked on d&d was to plot all of its errors and try to make a perfect system that would simulate anything and everything realistically. Then, I could add back in all the supernatural, and balance it perfectly with the mundane, and blah blah blah. Then I realised that no one cares, either they are content with D&D or they move to GURPS, and no one (except for me) questions GURPS. All that to say, being a minority sucks for inspiration.
And now, still fascinated in realistic RPGs and physics, both known and theoretical, I am rooting for this system, that completely breaks all of the rules my life has been about... I must say, congratulations, and thank you. I'm even more of a minority because of this project, but I feel like less of one.

And now that my lack-of-sleep induced rant is over, back to the questions. I third the question of what the names of the first 8 energies are, and question how you can add/remove/create/destroy -ness's.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

And now that my lack-of-sleep induced rant is over, back to the questions. I third the question of what the names of the first 8 energies are, and question how you can add/remove/create/destroy -ness's.

Make sure you're bolding your questions!

(also- Here! Here! on your rant. also also- Silver Age will take you anytime you want to apply. :) )

[Xechon]

The question still needs re-wording so the genie doesn't twist it around and destroy the world. A generous genie, however, seeing the answer to the previous question and the fact that he is giving 4 wishes instead of the usual 3. Although that's probably just because of the intended repeating numbers going around in his posts.

Edit: I'll try and apply for silver age tonight. My minecraft name is 80sing if it is needed.

[Amechra]

Don Quixote isn't a play; it's a novel.

A damn good novel, that would make Cervantes cringe nowadays, since a lot of people see it as supporting chivalry, when it was supposed to do the exact opposite.

I seriously need to finish the book; I borrowed it from the library, and lost reading time to stupid school (damnit school, let us read the classics!)

[Welknair]

Curse you gmail, for not notifying me of fourthland updates sooner!

Anyway, now that I'm all caught up, I have a few things to say:

Silver Age- Am I too late to join? I don't know any of the schedules, but I don't have very much of a life, and would love to hop aboard.

Stealing ideas/minecraft- You see where this is going. Now, I would never just up and take your mind-product, but something I've been thinking of is; fourthland, minecraft based rpg. Essentially a ton of mods in a pack such as you would find on the technic launcher. I can't code java yet, but I'm learning, and eventually I'd love to see this happen, and I belive some others would too.

Minority- I am a simulationist, and very analytical. I like to take ideas, and change them to my mindset, my ultimite design. So it's no surprise that the first thing I did when I was hooked on d&d was to plot all of its errors and try to make a perfect system that would simulate anything and everything realistically. Then, I could add back in all the supernatural, and balance it perfectly with the mundane, and blah blah blah. Then I realised that no one cares, either they are content with D&D or they move to GURPS, and no one (except for me) questions GURPS. All that to say, being a minority sucks for inspiration.
And now, still fascinated in realistic RPGs and physics, both known and theoretical, I am rooting for this system, that completely breaks all of the rules my life has been about... I must say, congratulations, and thank you. I'm even more of a minority because of this project, but I feel like less of one.

And now that my lack-of-sleep induced rant is over, back to the questions. I third the question of what the names of the first 8 energies are, and question how you can add/remove/create/destroy -ness's.

The question still needs re-wording so the genie doesn't twist it around and destroy the world. A generous genie, however, seeing the answer to the previous question and the fact that he is giving 4 wishes instead of the usual 3. Although that's probably just because of the intended repeating numbers going around in his posts.

Edit: I'll try and apply for silver age tonight. My minecraft name is 80sing if it is needed.
Silverage: I think we're technically "Halegron's Handbook" now. Appropriate link to where to apply here (http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1279222-%e2%80%a0-t-h-e-b-o-o-k-o-f-h-a-l-e-g-r-o-n-%e2%80%a0-enter-the-world-of-ar%c3%a6thon-%e2%80%a0-roleplay-%e2%80%a0-whitelist-%e2%80%a0-nations-%e2%80%a0-war-%e2%80%a0/). I see no reason why we'd stop accepting applications in the near future. It is worth also reiterating my position as one of the two Whitelisters. Apply, and I'll make sure you get accepted quite quickly. In case I haven't posted it elsewhere, I play Elric Seeker, one of the few survivors from Agazatra. Soon after the start of the new map (WHICH HAS NOT YET OCCURRED), Elric will gain ownership of the human province of Northcrest, the center of learning in the new land of Araethon. So yeah. Feel free to look me up IC, or apply for a Scribe job there.

Stealing Ideas: For copyright reasons, I would kindly request you abstain from the release of any such mods/plugins prior to me copyrighting something
with my name and "Fourthland" on it. I think a minecraft-fourthland crossover is an amazing idea, and I'm very interested to see what you come up with. Do note this matter could be simplified a bit by having a tweaked name (Fifthworld?). We'd still know what it is, but no one would have to worry about copyright infringement.

Minority: I forget if I've posted it elsewhere in this thread, but I tend to be a simulationist myself, believe it or not. Previous game attempts by me have included impeccable mechanics for handling both combat, character growth, and even moral decisions. Everyone that looked over it agreed it was an excellent model. The only problem was how long it took to get through the mechanics. I eventually determined that I was trying to make a game here, not a simulation. So I abandoned our world, in favor of one where I was untethered by the burdensome constraints of real-world physics. And thus Fourthland was born! :smallbiggrin: It's been a learning experience, and I'm intrigued for much the same reason you are. An entirely new world to explore. ENTIRELY NEW. That's worth something.


Don Quixote isn't a play; it's a novel.

A damn good novel, that would make Cervantes cringe nowadays, since a lot of people see it as supporting chivalry, when it was supposed to do the exact opposite.

I seriously need to finish the book; I borrowed it from the library, and lost reading time to stupid school (damnit school, let us read the classics!)

Shows what I know! I've only ever seen the first movie adaptation, in which the story is phrased as a play. And my spanish class a few years ago was awesome enough to show us the movie. :smallcool:

[Xechon]

Silverage
Okay, I've submitted my form. Will I be notified somehow of acceptance or do I just get on after a day or so? I've never done this before, but am quite exited to finally be social with the rest of the internet (https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod%3D14&q=forever+alone&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=OdTfT7XFMYSm8gSlwYiSDQ&biw=1024&bih=6).


Stealing Ideas
Don't worry, I was saying that I wanted to collaborate with you to create this, if I ever get around to actually learning Java (So...much...code; Minecraft, it beckons). Copyright shouldn't be an issue, you'll get your name stamped on there plenty. I'm not even sure I will be able to do this, but it is something I'd definitely love to see happen, and I have ideas a-brewin'.


Minority
No, I didn't know that, but now that I do, I'm not very surprised. It's a hard life trying to get games to follow all of our pesky laws of existence. I imagine a lot of simulationists would love to kick physics as many times as possible, just as you are. You are a good man, Welknair. I congratulate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCaXycaYDhQ) you again.

[Elfstone]

Don Quixote isn't a play; it's a novel.

A damn good novel, that would make Cervantes cringe nowadays, since a lot of people see it as supporting chivalry, when it was supposed to do the exact opposite.

I seriously need to finish the book; I borrowed it from the library, and lost reading time to stupid school (damnit school, let us read the classics!)

And here I was being all confused. I read it once. In 7th grade. Made my head hurt after I finished it. Never had the nerve to do so again.

However the Princess Bride the book, now that was a great book. I've only read an abridged copy, but apparently the original had 70+ pages devoted to detailing the wardrobe of the princess... What some people do for the sake of humor.....

Since it appears Im not going to make the playtest(leaving for a month+ within a few days), I'll drop my slot for someone else. Unless of course, you haven't started by the time I get back.

[Xechon]

And I jump in for it! Please:smallbiggrin:?

[Welknair]

Okay, I've submitted my form. Will I be notified somehow of acceptance or do I just get on after a day or so? I've never done this before, but am quite exited to finally be social with the rest of the internet (https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod%3D14&q=forever+alone&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=OdTfT7XFMYSm8gSlwYiSDQ&biw=1024&bih=6).
I'd recommend keeping an eye on that thread. With the number of submissions coming in, we whitelisters are handling them almost constantly. The other whitelister, zePato, has rejected your first application. Note that you can just keep reapplying. Main tips: We don't have Half-elves, at least not yet. We try to stay away from "They killed my parents!" backstories - they're a bit cliche. Give it another swing, and you ought to be accepted.


Don't worry, I was saying that I wanted to collaborate with you to create this, if I ever get around to actually learning Java (So...much...code; Minecraft, it beckons). Copyright shouldn't be an issue, you'll get your name stamped on there plenty. I'm not even sure I will be able to do this, but it is something I'd definitely love to see happen, and I have ideas a-brewin'.
Ah, alright. Then yes, I'd be game for such a collaboration later on.


Since it appears Im not going to make the playtest(leaving for a month+ within a few days), I'll drop my slot for someone else. Unless of course, you haven't started by the time I get back.
Ah, that's a shame! I hope your trip goes well.


And I jump in for it! Please:smallbiggrin:?
Welcome aboard!

[Xechon]

Ah, I was hoping for a human character with little elf traits, as it didn't specify which special traits humans can choose from. And that backstory is that of my best defined character, with a few modifications to fit this server's apparent feel. I'll try out some of my others, then. Also, they didn't kill his parents, ones still alive and the other dire of natural causes. He wants to give his life for the same cause as his brother, who had the "you killed my father mentality". I had a corrupted government version earlier, but decided I don't want to die and get stolen from and grifed in the wilderness, so I used that one. I thought I did so well, to...

And thank you for your acceptance into the playtest! I was upset at myself when I missed a spot on the team.

Edit: Just got accepted, same character but a few minor modifications. I look forward to trying this out in the morning :smallbiggrin:.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

And here I was being all confused. I read it once. In 7th grade. Made my head hurt after I finished it. Never had the nerve to do so again.

However the Princess Bride the book, now that was a great book. I've only read an abridged copy, but apparently the original had 70+ pages devoted to detailing the wardrobe of the princess... What some people do for the sake of humor.....

Since it appears Im not going to make the playtest(leaving for a month+ within a few days), I'll drop my slot for someone else. Unless of course, you haven't started by the time I get back.

Elf, you fell for it then. There was no "original" Princess Bride. The book pretends there is. Trust me. I fell for it too. I searched and searched for the original. It doesn't exist. I love how it does this, to make it seem more mysterious. It draws you in. I found the book hilarious and as fun to read as the movie is to watch. :)


As for the slot in the play test. It seems I've missed my chance. Shucks.

[Welknair]

Ah, I was hoping for a human character with little elf traits, as it didn't specify which special traits humans can choose from. And that backstory is that of my best defined character, with a few modifications to fit this server's apparent feel. I'll try out some of my others, then. Also, they didn't kill his parents, ones still alive and the other dire of natural causes. He wants to give his life for the same cause as his brother, who had the "you killed my father mentality". I had a corrupted government version earlier, but decided I don't want to die and get stolen from and grifed in the wilderness, so I used that one. I thought I did so well, to...

And thank you for your acceptance into the playtest! I was upset at myself when I missed a spot on the team.

Edit: Just got accepted, same character but a few minor modifications. I look forward to trying this out in the morning :smallbiggrin:.

Do note that the server isn't actually open to the public right now. We're putting the finishing touches on it, hopefully to be opened tomorrow afternoon. And congrats on being accepted!

[Amechra]

Dang, due to... issues I've got with my tech, I can't do teh online servers.

...

Any chance I could get a client-side version of whatever mods you are running on Silverage/HH?