3.P swordsage.

[MukkTB]

I'm trying to build a swordsage for 3.P. I have run into some compatibility problems.

How would you guys recommend doing starting skillpoints. Is that 6x thing a typo? My best guess is to calculate how many skillpoints the character would have at lvl 1 in 3.5 and divide by 4 to get 3.P.

What is the right thing to do with concentration checks? keep the skill? Initiator lvl + stat bonus? In that case which stat should I use?


I'm thinking of doing high dex with weapon finesse and shadow blade. PF Finesse can be taken w/o a BA of 1. Human with 25 point buy so the stats would be Str 10, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 10. The Optimization Voice tells me to do Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 7, but I don't feel great about that 7 Cha. I don't want to roleplay as someone socially inept. On the other hand I'm not bothering to put any skillpoints into cha skills anyway. So the mechanical difference is very little. I'm planning on eventually picking up TWF but I'm not a great fan of it. I chose a dex based fighting style for the defensive benefits. (Swordsage can't go heavy armor.)

So what advice do you guys have?

[Aegis013]

6+int mod skill points was errata'd to 4+int mod skill points.

If you're going TWF, Tiger Claw I believe will be one of your best, since it gets the additional attack maneuvers.
You could go Assassin Stance and try to stack up precision damage too.

[Telasi]

In 3.P, you get the same skill points every level. For Swordsage, that's 6+Int mod.

Edit: Swordsage'd with some errata. :smalltongue:

Concentration is gonna have to be your GM's call. My preferred solution is to do it exactly the same way as casters do, but with Initiator level. So Initiator level + main stat vs. DC. I've also seen Autohypnosis be used in place of Concentration, but that gets weird and calls for the psionics book to get the skill description.

[MukkTB]

Would the playground agree that wisdom is the 'main' stat?

[Telasi]

This playgrounder would in fact argue for Dex on your character, but that's me and how I run it. Wis isn't a bad option, either.

[Gavinfoxx]

but that gets weird and calls for the psionics book to get the skill description.

Or you could, you know. Get it from the online SRD...

[FMArthur]

6+int mod skill points was errata'd to 4+int mod skill points.

No, it wasn't. This is the ToB errata before it inexplicably turns into the Complete Mage errata:

Page 74-75 – Strike of the Broken Shield [Deletion]
Remove last two sentences of
maneuver’s text.

Page 77 – Five-Shadow Creeping Ice Enervation Strike [Deletion]
Remove “Duration: 1 minute.”

Page 53 – Firesnake [Deletion/Substitution]
Remove last two sentences of first paragraph. Substitute last two sentences of second paragraph with “A c

And the 6+Int wasn't the part that was a mistake at all. The "x6 at 1st level" part was the error, which is obviously supposed to be "x4 at 1st level" just like every other class. The 'fan errata' (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13292.0) agrees. It's irrelevant to Pathfinder; Swordsages just get 6+Int skills and you discard the "x6" bit just like you'd discard the "x4" in normal 3.5 classes converting to Pathfinder.


Would the playground agree that wisdom is the 'main' stat?

Not usually. It's just your AC and not a lot of maneuvers offer a save you'd increase the DC of with Wisdom.

Some here would say that the main stat is Dexterity, but that's really only for a particular type of Swordsage and the class supports a broad range of concepts. You can do it if you're willing to spend feats to get Dexterity to your attacks and damage. The only natural proclivity a Swordsage has towards Dexterity than some other melee class is that they can choose to stay in a Shadow Hand stance for their whole career to benefit from the Shadow Blade they spent a feat on getting, replacing their Strength with their Dexterity to damage. It's not horrible or anything but it's far from mandatory.

A more standard Swordsage is something like Strength > Constitution = Wisdom > Dexterity. There is a fair bit of leeway because maneuvers are well-designed, so it's not difficult to build an effective swordsage around a stat spread that focuses on something more than Strength and/or dumps any one of those four entirely that isn't Constitution.

[Telasi]

Found Paizo's conversion guidelines, for whatever they're worth to you: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy89m6


Or you could, you know. Get it from the online SRD...

Yep, you can use the Pathfinder SRD website (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/), too. Good site, that, btw. The point was that you're bringing in the psionics rules to make ToB work in 3.P with that method, not that you actually had to buy the book.

[Aegis013]

No, it wasn't. This is the ToB errata before it inexplicably turns into the Complete Mage errata:...

I see. Sorry for the misinformation, I clearly misunderstood something. Thank you for clearing that up.

[gourdcaptain]

I've also seen Concentration for Tome of Battle classes in PF discussed as doing it with the key stat for each discipline, but that's 3.0e Psionics Handbook levels of crazy MAD.

EDIT: If you really want to add an extra class feature to Swordsages to PF them (not that I'm entire sure they'd need one), give 'em Adaptive Style as a bonus feat.

[FMArthur]

Concentration being a skill basically meant that your Diamond Mind checks were character level + Con + 3. Do you want to keep it around where it was or do you want to nerf those maneuvers?

[MukkTB]

I don't think its going to be necessarily to add more features to the class. Those features don't really effect class tier. They mostly keep each level interesting. Swordsage getting new maneuvers each level should stay interesting. Kind of like the PF wizard not getting new class doodads at every level.