Ironclaw Probabilities

[EccentricOwl]

Anyone here read up on Ironclaw's system? I'm curious if there's a probability table. I'm concerned; it seems that it's really really random.

[Beelzebub1111]

Avoid it. Like the Plague. A simpler system for what you want, and I mean this with ALL honesty, is Palladium's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles/After the Bomb.

I kid you not. Ironclaw is WORSE and MORE COMPLICATED than a PALLADIUM system.

[EccentricOwl]

What? No way. It seemed perfectly simply! The GM rolls a die for the difficulty and the players roll their dice depending on how good they are. What's so difficult about that?

[Dingle]

I haven't seen the system, but the GM rolling a die for difficulty is rather pointless if the players are also rolling dice.

The only time you couldn't theoretically combine the 2 into a single roll for less time wasting and hassle is if someone can make a decision after seeing the result of the difficulty roll.

[Lapak]

Avoid it. Like the Plague. A simpler system for what you want, and I mean this with ALL honesty, is Palladium's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles/After the Bomb.

I kid you not. Ironclaw is WORSE and MORE COMPLICATED than a PALLADIUM system.That's not true. That's impossible! [/Luke]

Seriously, I played a fair bit of TMNT and I can't think of many more ways for a system to bog down. The character generation alone...

[EccentricOwl]

We're all talking about Ironclaw 3rd Edition, right? Right? I mean, it's the system that intrigued me more than the anthropomorphic characters (though those aspects were also handled decently well).

Admittedly, the difficulty roll on the GM's part seems redundant, considering that the players are also rolling the dice. However, I did not think that it was any more complicated than other systems.

The core mechanic seemed interesting. Like the CORTEX system but unlike Savage Worlds you roll dice that change based on the situation. Maybe that's why people seem so averse to it.

If it's really overtly complex, I'm not seeing it where, but I'm willing to listen. If the character generation is indeed overly complex, that's a perfectly fair detracting point.

[hiryuu]

We're all talking about Ironclaw 3rd Edition, right? Right? I mean, it's the system that intrigued me more than the anthropomorphic characters (though those aspects were also handled decently well).

Really? It felt like those aspects were handled very poorly. Certain races have racial features that would change their culture dramatically (such as bat cities being impossible to siege, or fox cultures being primarily nocturnal) and you could probably shave everyone and just make them human without changing the culture or setting at all. Jadeclaw makes an attempt at a unique cosmology (involving the zodiac nations), but fails for a number of reasons, most notably making "ugly" animals into slave races or villains.

Though I am intrigued at the idea of adding Opabinia pirates who can breathe water and climb right up the side of your ship.

"Avast, ye sclerotized scalawags!"


Admittedly, the difficulty roll on the GM's part seems redundant, considering that the players are also rolling the dice. However, I did not think that it was any more complicated than other systems.

The core mechanic seemed interesting. Like the CORTEX system but unlike Savage Worlds you roll dice that change based on the situation. Maybe that's why people seem so averse to it.

If it's really overtly complex, I'm not seeing it where, but I'm willing to listen. If the character generation is indeed overly complex, that's a perfectly fair detracting point.

Not a fan of anything where the GM's difficulties are variable. That's really the deal. You can't really set the difficulty of anything, then, can you?

[Protoneiko]

I've Just recently created characters for an Ironclaw game (Yesterday) and it was very easy and straight forward. Admittingly Some races seem slightly broken/better then the others. We get have 2 mock battles to get used to combat and that seemed easy.

From what I heard, most people play Ironclaw for a more social/skill based game over the combat, but it all seems fun.

[erikun]

I have the March 2001 revised edition of Ironclaw, along with the June 2006 printing of Jadeclaw. I'm not quite clear what you are asking, though. What, exactly, do you want to know?

The system uses opposed dice pool rolls and compares the results on each die, starting with the highest. The larger of the highest two rolls scores one success, the larger of the next highest two scores one success, and so on. Dice range from d4 to d12, with progression one step beyond that at d14+d4, or adding another die. Extra dice above your opponent's pool count as automatic successes. (This becomes important.) The "winner" of the action is the one who scored more successes than their opponent.

The dice pool is calculated by race (if related at the skill), by career (if related), and the actual skill value. While there are no racial bonuses to combat or magic skills, most other skills can potentially benefit from both race and career, easily granting you three dice in that skill.

This can be a problem in some cases. It's possible to start with two careers, meaning a character who wants to focus on a skill could end up with four dice in it. Remember that bit above, where extra dice count as automatic successes? Well, that means a starting character with 4d6 (pretty moderate starting character) will always succeed or at least tie against a character with 2d12 - a pretty skilled value, especially if we're talking about 2d12 in a specific skill rather than 1d12 in a skill and a race/career.

Is this a problem? I guess it depends on how often the skill will come up. Four-dice stealth or tactics can quickly become a problem if sneaking around or ambushing is repeatedly called for. Four-dice swimming isn't likely to be as gamebreaking, though.

Oh, and adding bonuses and applying penalities to dice is somewhere between aggrevating to considerably stupid.

[Beelzebub1111]

That's not true. That's impossible! [/Luke]

Seriously, I played a fair bit of TMNT and I can't think of many more ways for a system to bog down. The character generation alone...

I find the game goes a lot smoother if you ignore the "Role with Impact" for anything other than area-of-effects and for character creation choose an animal and chose a OCC from some other palladium book. Heroes Unlimited, most likely, to pick your skills.

[Lapak]

I find the game goes a lot smoother if you ignore the "Role with Impact" for anything other than area-of-effects and for character creation choose an animal and chose a OCC from some other palladium book. Heroes Unlimited, most likely, to pick your skills.Oh, man, I'd forgotten Roll With Punch completely. Yes, let's add ANOTHER roll to every unarmed attack action (that already includes two at minimum) in a martial-arts game. :smallsigh: But yes, if you ignore the TMNT skills and profession options and swap them out for another Palladium game things improve somewhat. And choosing an animal rather than rolling eliminates the single greatest character balance problem. (For those not familiar with the game, you base animal is determined by two rolls on d100. If you don't end up with a very small or very large base animal, your options for mutation are basically nullified.) But at that point you're basically playing Heroes Unlimited with an animal-origin mutant, not TMNT.

(For the standard 'modern world non-superhero' feel, I'd swap in Ninjas and Superspies instead skill-wise, but that hardly reduces the bogging-down of combat. :smallsmile:)

I played the game, I really enjoyed the game, but it wasn't the system that did it. That system was just terrible.

[Beelzebub1111]

Oh, man, I'd forgotten Roll With Punch completely. Yes, let's add ANOTHER roll to every unarmed attack action (that already includes two at minimum) in a martial-arts game. :smallsigh: But yes, if you ignore the TMNT skills and profession options and swap them out for another Palladium game things improve somewhat. And choosing an animal rather than rolling eliminates the single greatest character balance problem. (For those not familiar with the game, you base animal is determined by two rolls on d100. If you don't end up with a very small or very large base animal, your options for mutation are basically nullified.) But at that point you're basically playing Heroes Unlimited with an animal-origin mutant, not TMNT.

(For the standard 'modern world non-superhero' feel, I'd swap in Ninjas and Superspies instead skill-wise, but that hardly reduces the bogging-down of combat. :smallsmile:)

I played the game, I really enjoyed the game, but it wasn't the system that did it. That system was just terrible.
Well, the point of the thread wasn't to play TMNT, it was to play an anthro animal game, and the mutant animals in that book are the best way while having the animal you pick actually matter.