I need a word for the opposite of a Church...

[Typewriter]

So, I'll be running a new campaign soon, and in my setting 'religion' and 'church' aren't quite the right words to use. The problem is that I don't know what else to use. Can anyone help?

Short version:
The gods are against 'humanity' but 'humanity' can use holy symbols to drain power from the gods and keep them weak. 'Churches' spread knowledge of this, but do not worship because worship empowers the gods.

Long version:

1. Gods create monstrous races(Trolls, Ogres, Goblins, Orcs), known as the Faithful.
2. The Faithful races start to enslave each other
3. The gods are powerful due to the worship of the faithful, so they create races to serve as slaves (humans, elves, dwarves)
4. The slave races learn that they can harness the gods power via holy symbols.
5. The slave races learn that doing so enough actually weakens the gods
6. Revolution! Most of the faithful are destroyed, thus weakening the gods further.
7. Continuing to harness the power of the gods keeps them weak. Don't let the Faithful rebuild their shrines, etc. etc.


So sailors don't pray to the gods of the Sea to keep them safe, they channel the power of the Sea gods to keep said god weak enough that he can't send a storm their way.

Places of 'worship' exist, but 'worship' is the completely wrong word, and I certainly don't think it would occur at a 'church'.

Any thoughts?

[Fax Celestis]

They "tithe" at a "sanctum" or a "citadel".

[2xMachina]

Hmm, IDK. But Ur-Priest fluff might be relevant?

[Typewriter]

They "tithe" at a "sanctum" or a "citadel".

I'm liking Sanctum. It is holy, but it doesn't inherently imply worship.

[Psyren]

I'd go even more nontraditional than that - they're essentially draining the gods, so a noun related to draining or bleeding would work. Like "Effusions," or "Siphons."

[Flickerdart]

Do any gods have bendy straws as their holy symbol?

[Godskook]

How about words like:

Emancipation
Liberation

And then adapt that with something akin to "unlock the power within" to get something like "liberate what the gods stole from you"

[Typewriter]

@2xMachina
I had never actually read up on the Ur-Priest before. That's surprisingly accurate flavor for the kind of thing I'm going for.

I'm not sure about the word "Siphon" though. It makes the act sound malevolent to a certain degree, which just isn't entirely accurate the way I'm doing it.

@Psyren
As I just said, I'm not sure what I think about using the word "Siphon". So far it's my favorite fit, and I may go with it, but I'm still not sure.

@Godskook
I like the idea but I'm trying to use as little 'different' terminology as possible. As it is we'll probably say "Church" instead of "Sanctum" fairly regularly just because of absent-mindedness.

I was going to go with Channel for harnessing the power, but we're playing Pathfinder, and "Channel Energy" is a power. I don't want to use a term that is already mechanically defined.

Thanks for ideas all, I appreciate it :)

[Wings of Peace]

A university? It seems fairly appropriate given that a D&D church will teach you about how worshiping god X will make your life awesome where as a university would teach you skills for making your life awesome yourself or arcane magic for making your reality awesome yourself.

Hell, make an Archivist university that teaches people that the gods are cheating them and that worship isn't actually required to use divine magic at all.

[Novawurmson]

That's a really awesome idea for a campaign setting. You might want to consider looking at the Greek titans and furies (godlike but malevolent), as well as the World of Warcraft titans (godlike but detached creators), and the Lovecraftian Old Ones/Outer Gods.

[Icestorm245]

If you don't mind me asking. are the gods against humanity because humanity is draining them of their power or is humanity draining the gods' power because the gods are against them?

[Calmar]

Conspiracy, Sect, Conjuration, Drain ?

[Jack_Simth]

If you don't mind me asking. are the gods against humanity because humanity is draining them of their power or is humanity draining the gods' power because the gods are against them?
The simple answer: Humans say they're draining the gods' power because the gods are against them. The gods say that they're against the humans because the humans are draining the gods' power.

AKA, it depends on who you ask.

[SaintRidley]

You could use kirk for church.

It derives from the same roots as church, but mostly exists in Scots, Scottish English, and certain northern English dialects. So bonus of being synonymous while sounding like it might be unrelated if your group doesn't know these things.

[Agent 451]

It's more fitting for a legal setting (but maybe it works here since the humans are trying to restrain the power of the gods) but how about they gather at a "moot (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot)"?

Edit: You take this further by applying legalese type words to replace terms like worship, etc.

[Typewriter]

A university? It seems fairly appropriate given that a D&D church will teach you about how worshiping god X will make your life awesome where as a university would teach you skills for making your life awesome yourself or arcane magic for making your reality awesome yourself.

Hell, make an Archivist university that teaches people that the gods are cheating them and that worship isn't actually required to use divine magic at all.

University comes off a bit too scholarly for my tastes I think. It's not just about the spread of knowledge, though that is a focus. I prefer it to church, but at this point I still like Sanctum.


That's a really awesome idea for a campaign setting. You might want to consider looking at the Greek titans and furies (godlike but malevolent), as well as the World of Warcraft titans (godlike but detached creators), and the Lovecraftian Old Ones/Outer Gods.

I will look some of this stuff up tomorrow at work. I have a random smattering of knowledge in regards to some real world historical religions, but nothing in depth, and definitely nothing about WoW or Lovecraft (other than what I've learned playing Call of Cthulu).


If you don't mind me asking. are the gods against humanity because humanity is draining them of their power or is humanity draining the gods' power because the gods are against them?

Here is the backstory of the campaign world, as I presented it to the players. I can't really say any more on the subject as I know at least one of my players checks these boards periodically.

Setting:

The first races created by the gods are referred to today as the Faithful. Orcs, Goblins, Ogres, Trolls. Originally all these were equal creatures in the eyes of the gods, but eventually a hierarchy began to form. Trolls commanded Ogres who commanded Orcs who abused Goblins. The Faithful races had an insane devotion to the gods, building monuments wherever they went and worshipping day and night. Even the Goblins maintained a true love of their gods. But it had never been the intent of the gods for their original creations to be slave to one another.

Due to the devotion of their creations the gods were still powerful at this time. In order to elevate the they vowed to use their power to create lesser races to serve as minions of their Faithful. This is where Elves, Human, and Dwarves came from.

The Faithful were violent, aggressive people and they worked their slaves hard. For hundreds, maybe even thousands, of years the Faithful dominated the wilds of the world as their slaves built monuments to the gods that had no interest in them. Eventually it turned out that having their slaves create these monuments was a mistake, but the Faithful would not find this out until it was too late.

An Elven builder by the name of Layel found that he could harness the power of the gods for healing and protection when holding a symbol of the gods. He spread this information among his people, and word spread quickly. At first this was seen as nothing more than a way to make life a bit easier for themselves, but eventually they overheard the Faithful talking. The gods were getting weaker, in fact it seemed as if something had been leeching power from the gods. The Faithful, and even the gods it seemed, were at a loss as to what was causing this. The Elves knew it was them, and they took advantage in the confusion.

A group of elves, led by Layel, revolted in the middle of the capital city. They fled for the docks where more of their number had been preparing things for them. Every single ship in the docks was either destroyed or stolen by elves. They escaped to the sea, leaving the Humans and the Dwarves to very angry masters.

For hundreds of years the elves used their fleet to keep the Faithful land locked. They destroyed or captured every ship they found, occasionally raiding strongholds to free more elves. Word spread among the other races of how to harness power from the gods, but it was dangerous. Any slave found with a holy symbol was killed painfully and publicly.

Eventually goblins, and even some Orcs, were put back into the positions of slaves, but this caused in-fighting among the Faithful. Some opposed it because it was against the will of the gods, while others said it was necessary for the continuation of their society.

Fights erupted, and eventually the elves took advantage of it. They started striking different cities and clearing out the Faithful. They freed the other races, but there was a good deal of animosity about having been left abandoned for so long. The slave races united to fight against the Faithful, but they did so separately - Elves from the Sea, Dwarves and Humans from land.

This 'war' lasted 600 years. In that time every Faithful stronghold that could be found was destroyed, every monument to the gods had been destroyed, and millions of the Faithful were killed. During this entire period tensions remained high between the races.

Layel had continually felt guilty about what had happened, but he had made the decision based off of logic and reasoning. He knew there wouldn't be enough ships for the Elves to take anyone else with him when he had fled so many years ago. He knew that if he had taken too many slaves had fled they would have been pursued more ruthlessly. Most importantly he knew the elven mind, and knew how to train his people to fight back against the Faithful. It had been Layel who had been maintaining peace all this time.

Then Layel passed away. Tensions rose, weapons were drawn. In the end the Elves sailed off, and the humans and dwarves called off their hunt. The war was finally over.

Humans started to fill in the cities that had once been possessed by the Faithful, but the dwarves found the idea of living in the homes of their former masters not to their liking. They, instead, took to the world itself as their home.

If the war had gone for another 1-2 hundred years then perhaps the final remnants of the Faithful would have been wiped away. As it is they are still out there, sometimes raiding, sometimes just trying to eke out a living. The only ones that are continually hunted are those who try to build worship to their old gods.


It's more fitting for a legal setting (but maybe it works here since the humans are trying to restrain the power of the gods) but how about they gather at a "moot (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot)"?

Edit: You take this further by applying legalese type words to replace terms like worship, etc.

I actually kind of like this because clerics are becoming the biggest political leaders in the world. Using more political terms would cause that to be more apparent.

I think Moot and Sanctum are now my two favorites...

[Ormur]

To borrow from His Dark Materials, the word Magisterium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magisterium) might serve your purpose. Pullman took it from Catholicism but it means the authority of the church without necessary implying worship.

Or really any word that sounds like it represents authority and organization works.

[Agent 451]

Glad you like it! To be honest, all I can think about now is a giant Greek-style amphitheatre full of Ents debating in long convoluted stretches of legalese :smalltongue:

[Dr.Epic]

Cult headquarters? That's all I got.

[Telonius]

Prometheans, maybe? Prometheus (word means "forethought") was the titan who stole the fire from the gods to give to humans.

[KutuluKultist]

Bring in conjunctions.

The rituals take place in a "Sanctum against GODNAME" instead of a "Sanctum of", or a "Temple against X" rather than a "Temple to" or "of" x.

[Kire_Nessumsar]

Asylum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_(antiquity))

[Venger]

So, I'll be running a new campaign soon, and in my setting 'religion' and 'church' aren't quite the right words to use. The problem is that I don't know what else to use. Can anyone help?

Short version:
The gods are against 'humanity' but 'humanity' can use holy symbols to drain power from the gods and keep them weak. 'Churches' spread knowledge of this, but do not worship because worship empowers the gods.

Long version:

1. Gods create monstrous races(Trolls, Ogres, Goblins, Orcs), known as the Faithful.
2. The Faithful races start to enslave each other
3. The gods are powerful due to the worship of the faithful, so they create races to serve as slaves (humans, elves, dwarves)
4. The slave races learn that they can harness the gods power via holy symbols.
5. The slave races learn that doing so enough actually weakens the gods
6. Revolution! Most of the faithful are destroyed, thus weakening the gods further.
7. Continuing to harness the power of the gods keeps them weak. Don't let the Faithful rebuild their shrines, etc. etc.


So sailors don't pray to the gods of the Sea to keep them safe, they channel the power of the Sea gods to keep said god weak enough that he can't send a storm their way.

Places of 'worship' exist, but 'worship' is the completely wrong word, and I certainly don't think it would occur at a 'church'.

Any thoughts?

thanks for posting the backstory for your campaign! that sounds like a lot of fun, I'd love to play in a world like that.

since you're looking for a place where knowledge is spread and you want it to countermand the traditional D&D representation of religions, how about libraries?

revolutions and dictatorships in the real world show the importance of controlling your population's access to their history (pol pot, mao zedong, kim jong il, etc) and as a result, the underground/rebel forces are those with access to real history instead of the ruling elite's creation myths.

[Amphetryon]

Antisectarianism?

[Psyren]

Conspiracy

Ooh, change of plans, I like this one.

[Jzadek]

Apostatium

[navar100]

You could use kirk for church.

It derives from the same roots as church, but mostly exists in Scots, Scottish English, and certain northern English dialects. So bonus of being synonymous while sounding like it might be unrelated if your group doesn't know these things.

The leader of a particular kirk would be called Captain.
:smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

My friend Roget has the following suggestions (amongst others) :-
Minster, Conventicle, Fane, Chantry

[shaikujin]

Concordat?
Covenant?
Cabal?
Coven?
Enclave?

Definitely non church-ey, but still suggestive of a form of law/agreement/faith.