Unearthed Arcana - Spontaneous Cleric Variant

[monkey3]

Unearthed Arcana has a Spontaneous Cleric Variant that turns Clerics into Sorcerers as far as having a limited number of spells known, but not having your spells memorized. My first question is, do you think this would drop your Tier down to Tier 2? My thought is no, because unlike a Sorcerer, you do not gain your spells at a delayed level. So if you pick the right spells, you should break even. (EDIT: removed "I don't think there is a metamagic spell casting time penalty" since there is in fact a casting time penalty)

The next question is what spells would you take as your known spells? A quick Google search came up with a thread (only 3 replies) from 4 years ago. A preliminary spell list from that thread follows:


1st level (he gets 7 of these, 2 are domains):
*Bane (suffering domain)
*Cure Light Wounds (healing domain)
*Updraft
*Sign
*Resurgence
*Conviction
*Inhibit

2nd level (he gets 7 of these, 2 are domains):
*Bear's Endurance (suffering domain)
*Cure Moderate Wounds (healing domain)
*Wave of Grief
*Divine Insight
*Ghost Touch Armour
*Resist Energy
*Zone of Truth

3rd level (he gets 6 of these, 2 are domains):
*Bestow Curse (suffering domain)
*Cure Serious Wounds (healing domain)
*Invisibility Perge
*Girallon's Blessing
*Ice Axe
*Resist Energy, Mass

4th level (he gets 6 of these, 2 are domains):
*Cure Critical Wounds (healing domain)
*Enervation (suffering domain)
*Blindsight, Greater
*Neutralize Poison
*Tongues
*Restoration

5th level (he gets 6 of these, 2 are domains):
*Cure Light Wounds, Mass (healing domain)
*Feeblemind (suffering domain)
*Incorporeal Nova
*Revivify
*Zone of Revelation
*True Seeing

6th level (he gets 5 of these, 2 are domains):
*Harm (suffering domain)
*Heal (healing domain)
*Dispel Magic, Greater
*Cometfall
*Energy Immunity

7th level (he gets 4 of these, 2 are domains):
*Eyebite (suffering domain)
*Regenerate (healing domain)
*Bestow Curse, Greater
*Spell Resistance, Mass

8th level (he gets 3 of these, 2 are domains):
*Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (healing domain)
*Symbol of Pain (suffering domain)
*Stormrage

I guess someone else can start a similar thread for a druid spell list.

[Antonok]

Sorcerers and Bards
Sorcerers and bards choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.)

For a spell with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell

Bold for emphasis. Since you turned from prepare ahead of time to spontanious(I know, misspelled :smalltongue:), it does extend the cast time.

And I don't think it'd drop them down to tier 2. Not with access to DMM Persist anyhow.

[2xMachina]

Tier 1 = Tier 2 + Flexibility (Swappable active powers)

It has limited Spell Known, thus Tier 2.

[FMArthur]

Yeah a Tier 1 isn't really much more powerful than a Tier 2, and sometimes less so for certain specializations. They're just Tier 2s that can rebuild their main class features every day by preparing new spells and that's what makes them Tier 1s.

Some of them have additional, quite-rigged features, like clerics' DMM, wizard-exclusive ACFs/feats, and druid animal companion and Wild Shape, but they would all still be tier 1 without these distinguishing features because of the nature of their casting and the breadth of their spell access.

Regardless, it's not like the sudden realization that you're Tier 2 actually makes the character you built weaker. You built a character and know its strength already. Its tier shouldn't matter unless you can't contribute (ridiculous here) or unless the DM said you have to be Tier 1 to participate in the game as a meta restriction.

[Human Paragon 3]

Yes, but it's still very strong.

By the way, I recommend leaving the healing domain alone, since you can spontaneously heal anyway. Grab another domain for more flexibility.

[Psyren]

All spontaneous casters share the metamagic casting-time penalty unless otherwise stated - See RC pg. 125.

Even psionics gets a (deferred) version of it - represented by the time to regain focus.

[monkey3]

Interesting side point: would you put a Cleric without DMM lower in tier? We have always banned DMM.

We got side-tracked a little. Any suggestions on spells.

I do concede the point that metamagic for a Spontaneous Cleric WILL be a full round cast.

(will modify op)

[Psyren]

Interesting side point: would you put a Cleric without DMM lower in tier? We have always banned DMM.

No - metamagic isn't what makes a cleric T1, so cheaper metamagic is just a perk, not the main source of their power.


We got side-tracked a little. Any suggestions on spells.

There's a lot of them out there. I'd start with the Cleric Handbook spells section (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.msg8434#msg8434) and then check which books you have available.

[DeAnno]

Make sure to pick up Delay Death (probably over neutralize poison). Alter Fortune is also pretty good if you don't mind the XP drain when necessary.