Good ways to make yourself a target?

[MammonAzrael]

What are some good ways and techniques to make yourself a large target in combat? I'm looking for specific examples and combinations, rather than vague guidelines like "be dangerous." This info will be going to use in a high powered game where I'll be starting at ECL 14, and right now I'm just looking for a bunch of different ideas and options to get my brain turning.

For example, the King of Smack dishes out a lot of damage and commands an impressive reach (and is hard to miss) with his size increasing shenanigans. What are other tips and tricks you've found that will ensure that you draw plenty of focus. This info will be going to use in a high powered game where I'll be starting at ECL 14.

[Coidzor]

Well, if PF material is on the table, Antagonize (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize) will get you noticed. Likely to be either banned or houseruled into allowing ranged attacks/spell attacks.

If 3.P, a combination of Dazzling Display (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat) and Imperious Command will lock down all of their melee mook screens, causing the back-row of the enemy to suddenly be very interested in making you stop disabling their ablative meat-shields.

In 3.X, then Imperious Command + Intimidating Rage, or even just Never Outnumbered and being enlarged while wielding a reach weapon will put a noticeable hole in the opposing force's melee offense and defense.

Crusaders with Thicket of Blades and Standstill and a reach weapon will similarly become, essentially, a blocking wall that stymies and tears up the opposing force's melee capabilities.

[Mystify]

I'm a big fan of mindless rage. 2nd level spell. Its basically a will save, or the target must do everything it can to kill you in melee, and can't attack anyone else, use ranged attacks, or cast spells.. Its hilarious to cast it on an enemy caster. The wizard stands there trying to punch you to death.

[Psyren]

- Teleportation, especially stuff that lets you switch places with allies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dimensionSwap.htm)

- Make allies harder to target (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ectoplasmicShambler.htm), especially if you're the only target enemies can see.

- Stop them from getting past you. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)

- Take their damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm) for them. (Also Guardian Mantle)

etc

[MammonAzrael]

Well, if PF material is on the table, Antagonize (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize) will get you noticed. Likely to be either banned or houseruled into allowing ranged attacks/spell attacks.

If 3.P, a combination of Dazzling Display (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat) and Imperious Command will lock down all of their melee mook screens, causing the back-row of the enemy to suddenly be very interested in making you stop disabling their ablative meat-shields.

This game is 3.5, not Pathfinder, but excellent suggestions, particularly Antagonize.


In 3.X, then Imperious Command + Intimidating Rage, or even just Never Outnumbered and being enlarged while wielding a reach weapon will put a noticeable hole in the opposing force's melee offense and defense.

Crusaders with Thicket of Blades and Standstill and a reach weapon will similarly become, essentially, a blocking wall that stymies and tears up the opposing force's melee capabilities.

Both ideas I've been thinking about. My main worries at this point is the commonality of fear immunity by level 14 and increasing my size to make my reach more than just 10'.


I'm a big fan of mindless rage. 2nd level spell. Its basically a will save, or the target must do everything it can to kill you in melee, and can't attack anyone else, use ranged attacks, or cast spells.. Its hilarious to cast it on an enemy caster. The wizard stands there trying to punch you to death.

Sounds hilarious. I'll check it out.


- Teleportation, especially stuff that lets you switch places with allies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dimensionSwap.htm)

- Make allies harder to target (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ectoplasmicShambler.htm), especially if you're the only target enemies can see.

- Stop them from getting past you. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)

- Take their damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm) for them. (Also Guardian Mantle)

etc

Gotta love the psionics. :smallsmile: Perhaps I will end up going PsyWarrior - so many good tricks.

[TroubleBrewing]

Being a PsyWar also gives you the aforementioned size increase.

[Voyager_I]

Wear robes over whatever your normal equipment is (or maybe Glamered Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#glamered)), carry a Holy Symbol, and have a Spellbook prominently visible somewhere in your posessions. Maybe throw a few old Wands onto your belt for good measure.

Make sure you're convenient to attack while doing this.

[Keld Denar]

You will get a +5 GMW (with built in +1d6 Shocking) from me, the GOD wizard, along with a whole suite of buffs like Death Ward, FoM, Shield of Faith +4, Greater Blindsight, Sheltered Vitality, and Aid from our War Weaving Warsnake.

Note that if you do go King of Smack, might be worthwhile to Tash it up, rather than straight PsyWar. Monk's UAS count as a manufactured weapon, and is thusly a valid target for the Greater Magic Weapon (with the free lightning). I don't think we have anyone in party who can do Greater Magic Fang for Claws...

Since we are currently in Sigil, I'd suggest using a bludgeoning weapon. I could get you a NICE fancy Greater Mighty Wallop scroll, scribe it, and drop +5 size increases on whatever you choose. Unfortunately, the only reach weapon that has type Bludgeoning is the Lucern Hammer from A&EG, and it doesn't have the "strike adjacent" clause which is lacking in usefulness as a controller when you are trying to keep people from moving. Still, it would be great for UAS damage (from Tash), or with an Executioner's Mace (2d6 Martial 19-20 Bludg/Slashing Dungeon 112) which is also a valid target for Whirling Blade if you want to Gish it up. Whirling Blade is smexy.

[Person_Man]

Ways to increase size and reach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127732).

Knight's 4 gives you the Test of Mettle ability.

Goad feat: One enemy must Save or attack only you. Complete Adventurer.

Binder 1 can get the "Shield Self" ability at will, which makes 1 target (friend or foe) take 50% of your damage. (Paladin and Cleric also get the the Shield Other spell, which only protects an ally).

Undermountain Tactics feat: When in a hallway/corridor/tunnel/etc with no empty spaces between you and the walls, you can block line of site so that your enemies can’t target your allies standing behind you (but not block your allies ability to target enemies in front of you). If you're standing in front, enemies basically have no choice but to target you. You can also knock your enemy Prone when attacking from higher ground (for example, if you're really big, or mounted, or Spider Climbing on the ceiling even through you completely fill the space of the hallway). Requires Dwarf of Gnome. Dungeonscape.

[Psyren]

Binder 1 can also get masterwork full plate at first-level for free, along with DR, and switch places with allies too - all from the same vestige.

[gorfnab]

Feats:
Goad - Complete Adventurer
Karmic Strike - Complete Warrior
Robilar's Gambit - Player's Handbook II

Race:
Kender - Dragonlance Campaign Setting (Taunts and the Bluff Skill, page 29)

[kardar233]

You will get a +5 GMW (with built in +1d6 Shocking) from me, the GOD wizard, along with a whole suite of buffs like Death Ward, FoM, Shield of Faith +4, Greater Blindsight, Sheltered Vitality, and Aid from our War Weaving Warsnake.

Note that if you do go King of Smack, might be worthwhile to Tash it up, rather than straight PsyWar. Monk's UAS count as a manufactured weapon, and is thusly a valid target for the Greater Magic Weapon (with the free lightning). I don't think we have anyone in party who can do Greater Magic Fang for Claws...

Since we are currently in Sigil, I'd suggest using a bludgeoning weapon. I could get you a NICE fancy Greater Mighty Wallop scroll, scribe it, and drop +5 size increases on whatever you choose. Unfortunately, the only reach weapon that has type Bludgeoning is the Lucern Hammer from A&EG, and it doesn't have the "strike adjacent" clause which is lacking in usefulness as a controller when you are trying to keep people from moving. Still, it would be great for UAS damage (from Tash), or with an Executioner's Mace (2d6 Martial 19-20 Bludg/Slashing Dungeon 112) which is also a valid target for Whirling Blade if you want to Gish it up. Whirling Blade is smexy.

Keep in mind that if you go Tash you can use your Unarmed Strike to trip if they get in range of your Lucern Hammer.

[Malroth]

Splash Bard 2, grab the spell inspiration boost, a vest of legends, either the song of the heart or the words of creation feat, and as many ranks in Perform(yo momma jokes) as you can. So for the cost of a feat and 4HP you're giving your whole party +6 to attack/damage that will last all day as long as you don't cast any other spells, while being the most annoying thing in existance.

[Torq]

Roleplay Taunting a la Monty Python and The Holy Grail:

"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!"

"I fart in your general direction!"

That should do it.

[Grollub]

sleep with the gm's significant other :smallfurious:

[Mystify]

sleep with the gm's significant other :smallfurious:
If thats the only fallout from doing that, you are getting off easy.

[mikau013]

If thats the only fallout from doing that, you are getting off easy.

Depends, she might just like it.

[MammonAzrael]

Wear robes over whatever your normal equipment is (or maybe Glamered Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#glamered)), carry a Holy Symbol, and have a Spellbook prominently visible somewhere in your posessions. Maybe throw a few old Wands onto your belt for good measure.

Make sure you're convenient to attack while doing this.

A clever deception, and one that might have some surprise effect for a round or two. I'll keep non-mechanical deception in mind.


Ways to increase size and reach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127732).

Knight's 4 gives you the Test of Mettle ability.

Goad feat: One enemy must Save or attack only you. Complete Adventurer.

Binder 1 can get the "Shield Self" ability at will, which makes 1 target (friend or foe) take 50% of your damage. (Paladin and Cleric also get the the Shield Other spell, which only protects an ally).

Undermountain Tactics feat: When in a hallway/corridor/tunnel/etc with no empty spaces between you and the walls, you can block line of site so that your enemies can’t target your allies standing behind you (but not block your allies ability to target enemies in front of you). If you're standing in front, enemies basically have no choice but to target you. You can also knock your enemy Prone when attacking from higher ground (for example, if you're really big, or mounted, or Spider Climbing on the ceiling even through you completely fill the space of the hallway). Requires Dwarf of Gnome. Dungeonscape.

Solid suggestions, thanks. Particularly for the link, nice compilation!


Binder 1 can also get masterwork full plate at first-level for free, along with DR, and switch places with allies too - all from the same vestige.

That would be terrific normally, but I'll have plenty of cash to spend. :smallsmile:


Feats:
Goad - Complete Adventurer
Karmic Strike - Complete Warrior
Robilar's Gambit - Player's Handbook II

Race:
Kender - Dragonlance Campaign Setting (Taunts and the Bluff Skill, page 29)

Hmm...it is high enough level to engage in AoO shenanigans.


Splash Bard 2, grab the spell inspiration boost, a vest of legends, either the song of the heart or the words of creation feat, and as many ranks in Perform(yo momma jokes) as you can. So for the cost of a feat and 4HP you're giving your whole party +6 to attack/damage that will last all day as long as you don't cast any other spells, while being the most annoying thing in existance.

Amusing, but the party looks to be pretty well covered int eh buffing department. I'll be needing enemies to focus on me because I'm a singular threat, not because I'm boosting others.


Roleplay Taunting a la Monty Python and The Holy Grail:

"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!"

"I fart in your general direction!"

That should do it.


sleep with the gm's significant other :smallfurious:


If thats the only fallout from doing that, you are getting off easy.


Depends, she might just like it.

If you're going to post, please have actual advice, and remain on topic. :smallannoyed:

[Malroth]

Amusing, but the party looks to be pretty well covered int eh buffing department. I'll be needing enemies to focus on me because I'm a singular threat, not because I'm boosting others.


Coming out +5 to hit (-1bab compared to full but +6 morale) and +6 damage per attack ahead on your own attacks keeps you from being a singular threat? Maintaining an existing bardic music is a non action meaning you can do your reach weapon battlefield control at the same time.

[JoeYounger]

If you're going to post, please have actual advice, and remain on topic. :smallannoyed:

No need to be rude, I for one enjoyed those posts.

[deuxhero]

What are some good ways and techniques to make yourself a large target in combat?

Obviously you have to start with something like Enlarge Person or Expansion...

[MammonAzrael]

Coming out +5 to hit (-1bab compared to full but +6 morale) and +6 damage per attack ahead on your own attacks keeps you from being a singular threat? Maintaining an existing bardic music is a non action meaning you can do your reach weapon battlefield control at the same time.

It's certainly a nice boost, but 3 of the 4 other part members will be casters, and additionally at the level of optimization this game will be running at the boost to damage will be fairly negligible.

I was unclear how you intended for the Inspire courage to last all day - are you saying that my character would simply be performing non-stop the entire day through?


No need to be rude, I for one enjoyed those posts.

I wasn't trying to be rude and apologize if that is how it came off. I simply find suggestions to annoying fellow players and sleep with their partners to be not only missing the point of this thread, but juvenile at best and insulting at worst.


Obviously you have to start with something like Enlarge Person or Expansion...

Indeed. :smallamused: While I love having self-sufficient characters, I know the party wizard can toss around enlarge person, so I won't be too upset if I can't cast it myself!

[Torq]

I may have thrown a few monty python lines into my post but I still think role playing is a good option. The actual mechanics for Tanking or drawing 'aggro' in D & D are mostly non existent.

[mikau013]

A good way to make yourself a target is also to make everyone else less of a target, so talk to your fellow players and see how you can work together better.

[CTrees]

Race:
Kender - Dragonlance Campaign Setting (Taunts and the Bluff Skill, page 29)

Yep, kender are any easy number one target, every time. Even if theyre in my party. Freaking kender...

[Keld Denar]

I may have thrown a few monty python lines into my post but I still think role playing is a good option. The actual mechanics for Tanking or drawing 'aggro' in D & D are mostly non existent.


A good way to make yourself a target is also to make everyone else less of a target, so talk to your fellow players and see how you can work together better.

Its not really that simple. High level D&D is crazy. Disguising yourself or your allies or pretending to do something isn't that useful when you are facing a bunch of genius level outsiders with True Seeing always on. When the PC wizard drops an 8th level spell + a Quickened 4th level spell in the same round, its REALLY easy to figure out who the biggest threat is. You need abilities to stop that wizard from getting pasted by a dozen or so advanced bad guys and their summoned friends, plus enemy casters and ranged guys. This game is pretty crazy

I've actually been thinking about the possibility of 3 Mountains? Nausea is a pretty decent debuff, but I'm not sure how to get the type of range he'd probably need with it beyond Enlarge Person.

[Malroth]

Goliath psionic warrior with willing deformity tail and extended reach?

[Ernir]

Huge reach + some kind of stopper (probably Stand Still, at this level) could really do most of the work. The battlefields we're on aren't of infinite size. If the reach is so long that flying around it with common methods (and towards my minuscule-HP ass) is problematic... that'd be really great.

Too bad getting reach beyond a reach weapon + size increases tends to have the cost of two feats. Might still be worth it, though.


And hmm. A Giant Sizing Wu Jen gish might actually be doable at this level. Alternatively, if you can fit in shenanigans (Recaster, Wyrm Wizard) to get just Giant Size on the spell list of a more traditional gish...

[kulosle]

Goliath psionic warrior with willing deformity tail and extended reach?

This doesn't work either because you have to be medium size to take willing deformity tall.

[supermonkeyjoe]

This doesn't work either because you have to be medium size to take willing deformity tall.

Goliaths are medium size, they can just count as large whenever it's beneficial.

[Telonius]

If you're going to post, please have actual advice, and remain on topic. :smallannoyed:

You're asking advice from a bunch of D&D players and expecting them to not mess around, and stay on topic? :smallbiggrin:

A Magic Aura spell cast on an item you're carrying can help with making you a target. Make it emulate a high enough spell level, and anyone who's detecting magic will think it's some sort of terrifically powerful magic item; therefore you're probably very dangerous. Days/level, too, so you don't have to reload this one very often.

[Tr011]

There's a spell that revives your mates at half their HP. After 4-6 uses of this, the enemy will see that you should die first.

[mikau013]

Its not really that simple. High level D&D is crazy. Disguising yourself or your allies or pretending to do something isn't that useful when you are facing a bunch of genius level outsiders with True Seeing always on. When the PC wizard drops an 8th level spell + a Quickened 4th level spell in the same round, its REALLY easy to figure out who the biggest threat is. You need abilities to stop that wizard from getting pasted by a dozen or so advanced bad guys and their summoned friends, plus enemy casters and ranged guys. This game is pretty crazy



Sorry I misread the highly optimized part. I just automagically assumed someone who wanted to make herself a target wouldn't play in an optimized game.

But in that case let me alter my advice. Making yourself a target doesn't work, since if your enemies get actions you have a good chance of dying. You need to win init and kill your enemies before they can kill you. And need to not be surprised since otherwise they might be able to kill you in the surprise round.

[Ernir]

There's a spell that revives your mates at half their HP. After 4-6 uses of this, the enemy will see that you should die first.

That's my job. :smalltongue:


Making yourself a target doesn't work, since if your enemies get actions you have a good chance of dying. You need to win init and kill your enemies before they can kill you. And need to not be surprised since otherwise they might be able to kill you in the surprise round.

Sure it works. "Optimized" doesn't have to mean "rocket tag". Defense can be optimized as well as offense can. The characters' offense being better optimized than the defense leads to rocket tag, while the inverse leads to deadlocks. It's just that offense optimization seems to be more popular.

So far, all the battles in this particular campaign have been fairly long. And yes, it's the highest powered one I've been in.

[Choco]

Well, if the enemies are intelligent and you currently don't have any mechanics to go about using, you could try some old fashioned trash talking. If the DM is even half decent then at least some enemies should have short tempers and be easily provoked.