OOTS: Survival Percentage?

[Jubal_Barca]

Okay, so there are six members of the Order of the Stick. My question is quite simple: how many do you think will survive to the end of the comic? That doesn't mean they won't die in the intervening period, so long as they come back again.

Some brief details, in order of death likelihood to my mind:
ELAN - He gets a happy ending. So presumably lives.
HALEY - Elan gets a happy ending. So presumably she lives.
ROY - seems unlikely he'll die. I guess the "hero sacrifice victory" is possible, but still seems unlikely.
DURKON - Will reach his homeland posthumously; that doesn't mean he can't be resurrected, only that he will die before getting home. Still, a definite death and thus possibly a permanent one on the cards.
VAARSUVIUS - The kobold hints that Belkar will have some tenuous link in terms of causing V's death before Belkar stabs him (with the words "And as for the elf-"). I suspect this has a good chance of being followed up on, and so there's a possibility of permanent death in there. Particularly since he's being set up for something of a redemption storyline given the evil he did, and it would tie up the question of whether the IFCC DO get his soul. The other argument for this is perhaps that if Durkon dies and is rezzed, it may be unlikely that V will get the same treatment. Still could well be that he gets a resurrection, though.
BELKAR - effectively confirmed permanent death coming up.

Thus assuming no massive shocks, we have a number between three and five of the six order members getting to the finishing post. I'd probably guess that one of V or Durkon won't make it (though as my two favourite order members, I'd love it if both did), so I'll guess four of six... any other thoughts?

[JCarter426]

I don't think Durkon's prophecy means anything. He doesn't even know he's allowed to go home.

[Math_Mage]

Six, in various ways. :elan:

[Quild]

I don't think Durkon's prophecy means anything. He doesn't even know he's allowed to go home.

He doesn't know why (Origin of PCs). So once dead, he could contact a non cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0016.html) dwarf or been sent back by the Order (Roy at least may know where Durkon comes from).

But his prophecy should have been really weird to him. He isn't supposed to expect never coming back home alive :smalleek:.

[JCarter426]

I'm not sure I follow you. He was already afraid he'd be eaten by a monster or something - so he was at least entertaining the possibility that he'd never return.

What I'm saying is that he doesn't know he's allowed to return home, since he never got a response from the High Priest of Thor. So he might just spend the rest of his life adventuring, assuming he's not he's not allowed to return home yet.

[Spacewolf]

Well his prophecy was worded so that he dies outside dwarven lands but that doesnt mean he wont be back before that after all, it was how he will be finally coming back.

I'm going for at least two seperate returns with the final one being buried with honours for saving them from whatever follows him

[Math_Mage]

I'm not sure I follow you. He was already afraid he'd be eaten by a monster or something - so he was at least entertaining the possibility that he'd never return.

What I'm saying is that he doesn't know he's allowed to return home, since he never got a response from the High Priest of Thor. So he might just spend the rest of his life adventuring, thinking he's not assuming he's not allowed to return home yet.

Speculation is that Kraagor's Gate is in dwarven lands. Otherwise, there would be little plot relevance to the prophecy.

[JCarter426]

We don't know that, though. At least, I can't think of any sort of evidence. If anything it should be in the halfling lands.

[Kobold-Bard]

:belkar: - Dead before the final battle. Spends the rest of the comic screwing around with the IFCC in the underworld. Mr. Scruffy gets the Fiendish template.

:durkon: - Dies in the final battle, specifically vs. :redcloak:, stopping him from shifting the Gate. Later seen drinking with Thor.

:vaarsuvius: - Dies in the final battle simultaneously stopping :xykon: while :durkon: stops :redcloak: Resurrected post-battle and goes home to the family.

:roy: - Survives, deals the final blow against Demilich :xykon: in his Astral Fortress which is strangely reminiscent of the Tomb of Horrors.

:haley: - Survives, holds off the minions/traps/etc. with :elan:, while :roy: deals with :xykon:

:elan: - Seemingly dies, but :haley: shouts at him for trying to score "Heroic Sacrifice" drama, at which point he jumps up and congratulates her for being genre-savvy enough to tell he was faking.

[rrgg]

-Belkar = Unless Rich was preemptively planning on us overthinking the prophecy so much that Belkar's eventual non-death is a true surprise then I think he's done for.

-Durkon = At the moment, if Durkon got a chance to return to the dwarven land and he hadn't died yet, then I wouldn't be surprised if he turned it down. He doesn't have a very good outlook either.

-V = I didn't remember the oracle claiming Belkar would kill V, But it seems a bit iffy that all the non-human characters would die so I'd give it a 50/50

-Roy = Fairly selfless, team leader, was his cause in the first place, a good afterlife waiting for him, seems like he'll meet his end as part of some grand noble sacrifice (heck, he did once already). This is why he is almost certainly not going to die.

Nonetheless I get the feeling that one of the three humans won't make it, and since Roy is out that leaves either Haley or Elan (or both, one killed and the other one going suicidal).

[Tev]

I hope Rich found inspiration for fulfilling Belkar's prophecy in Red Dwarf.

for infidels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifaw07fuU00

[Timeless Error]

My guess is that Belkar, Vaarsuvius, and Durkon all die, and the rest survive and live happily ever after.


-V = I didn't remember the oracle claiming Belkar would kill V, But it seems a bit iffy that all the non-human characters would die so I'd give it a 50/50

In the fifth-to-last panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html), the oracle implies that Belkar would cause the death of V in the same way he caused the death of Roy, Miko, and Miko's Horse.


Nonetheless I get the feeling that one of the three humans won't make it, and since Roy is out that leaves either Haley or Elan (or both, one killed and the other one going suicidal).

But Elan was prophesied to get a happy ending here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)...I guess I can see him being satisfied with a heroic final sacrifice coupled with living in a comfortable afterlife with Haley, but I have a feeling that he'd be happier alive.

[ti'esar]

I expect there will be one permanent death besides Belkar - Haley and Elan are out, but it could be anyone else.

[Dwy]

Elan's happy ending could be alot more grim than you guys seem to think.

The story has a happy ending for him --> He has a happy end --> He dies while happy, as for example after the final battle, in Haley's arms. In an extreme case he might even have redeemed a family member, or made one or both see the error of their ways. Getting a dramatically suiting end, while surrounded by his loved ones, thus dying happily. Not traditional, no, but the Giant has a way of dodging those pesky traditions anyway.

Edit: Just to make it clear, I'm not saying it's the most likely event, but it would be possible, and come as a shock to many.

[TwilightsBard]

As far as Belkar killing V, I'd like to point out that Belkar's question was "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, OR you?"

That or is fairly important, and it's repeated again when Belkar complains about it. The Oracle was simply trying to argue out of getting stabbed, which failed pretty badly.

[Forbiddenwar]

my guess is everyone will die and the world is unmade. Yes even Elan, what better happy ending than discovering his love ended up in the same place?

[ThePhantasm]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Belkar will die ... I know, I know, crazy, but I make wild guesses like that.

Also, is it just me or are there a LOT of character-death threads lately? (And by "a lot" and "lately" I mean more than the usual)

[ti'esar]

Elan's happy ending could be alot more grim than you guys seem to think.

The story has a happy ending for him --> He has a happy end --> He dies while happy, as for example after the final battle, in Haley's arms. In an extreme case he might even have redeemed a family member, or made one or both see the error of their ways. Getting a dramatically suiting end, while surrounded by his loved ones, thus dying happily. Not traditional, no, but the Giant has a way of dodging those pesky traditions anyway.

Edit: Just to make it clear, I'm not saying it's the most likely event, but it would be possible, and come as a shock to many.

The Giant has specifically stated that the purpose of Elan's prophecy was to make it clear that the comic would not have a bad ending with the world being destroyed or the like. Any "esoteric happy ending" for Elan would sort of undercut the point.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Also, is it just me or are there a LOT of character-death threads lately? (And by "a lot" and "lately" I mean more than the usual)

Wild speculation following: their is an influx of new forumites due to Kickstarter (which is awesome by the way). As such, these new forumites are voicing their queiries here as they have not been here long enough to realize that most of these topics have been discussed to death and to a lesser degree the etiquette of this forum. Plus death speculation is pretty easy to recognize as something to speculate about. Know I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but its something that seems to be happening. I am saying that it is our job ("our" is referring to forum-seniors) to teach by example. Newer forumites will learn in time and I expect the rate of death threads will return to normal in due time.

[ti'esar]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Belkar will die ... I know, I know, crazy, but I make wild guesses like that.

Also, is it just me or are there a LOT of character-death threads lately? (And by "a lot" and "lately" I mean more than the usual)

There seem to be a lot of the Belkar's/V's/Durkon's death threads, but this is the first "general" one I've seen this year.

[Flame of Anor]

:belkar: - Dead before the final battle. Spends the rest of the comic screwing around with the IFCC in the underworld. Mr. Scruffy gets the Fiendish template.

:durkon: - Dies in the final battle, specifically vs. :redcloak:, stopping him from shifting the Gate. Later seen drinking with Thor.

:vaarsuvius: - Dies in the final battle simultaneously stopping :xykon: while :durkon: stops :redcloak: Resurrected post-battle and goes home to the family.

:roy: - Survives, deals the final blow against Demilich :xykon: in his Astral Fortress which is strangely reminiscent of the Tomb of Horrors.

:haley: - Survives, holds off the minions/traps/etc. with :elan:, while :roy: deals with :xykon:

:elan: - Seemingly dies, but :haley: shouts at him for trying to score "Heroic Sacrifice" drama, at which point he jumps up and congratulates her for being genre-savvy enough to tell he was faking.

I like this. I would guess something similar for number of survivors.


But Elan was prophesied to get a happy ending here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)...

I just want to thank you for typing "prophesied" and not "prophesized" as so, so many people do. :smallsmile:

[Timeless Error]

I just want to thank you for typing "prophesied" and not "prophesized" as so, so many people do. :smallsmile:

You're very welcome. That's a pet peeve of mine as well.

[ChaosOS]

So, my lists
Dead:
Belkar - Prophecy. I'll cover how in a second.
Varsuuvius - This gate. Possessed by IFCC, defeating everyone, Belkar gets up and tackles Darth 2.0 V. DV blasts Belks, knocking him into the gate. Xykon blasts V dead, finishing what he had started in Azure City and immediately soulbinds V. Team evil is about to win for real, Durkon then sacrifices himself and then it's a race to Kraagors.

Alive:
Durkon - Ressurected at Kraagor's, for final showdown of OOTS at 4 people (But with friends!) vs. Team Evil
Elan & Haley - Happy Ending
Roy - He's gonna get a happy ending, growing up, solving his differences with his father, and maybe an epilogue where he has a kid that's a wizard.

[Quild]

I'm not sure I follow you. He was already afraid he'd be eaten by a monster or something - so he was at least entertaining the possibility that he'd never return.

What I'm saying is that he doesn't know he's allowed to return home, since he never got a response from the High Priest of Thor. So he might just spend the rest of his life adventuring, assuming he's not he's not allowed to return home yet.

True, but he sure would prefer to return to dwarven lands alive. So I don't understand how his prophecy is a good thing for him. It's a better response than "never", but still...

To him, he "just" had been sent to a studying humans mission. He totally should expect it to end and allow him to make his report, then to enjoy the rest and his live and dwarven beer.

[Amarsir]

Also, is it just me or are there a LOT of character-death threads lately? (And by "a lot" and "lately" I mean more than the usual)
I got the same impression. Perhaps seeing a room full of dead people got everyones' minds going.

I feel like we've established Roy's "home base" is the LG afterlife. Certainly he's got more family there than anywhere else. Eugene's part in the story (and interaction with Roy) needs to be resolved. It would also be nice to have the deva or someone acknowledge that the blood oath was officially fulfilled. (Yes she said it didn't matter because Roy was trying, but I'm assuming he'd get at least a cursory second review after more live time.) So that would suggest his ending involves dying.

Then again, Celia needs to be wrapped up too I guess so maybe cutaways to Eugene (who can manifest himself below) would handle all the above, and Roy can go tolerate Celia as only he can.

[Hironomus]

:belkar: - Dead before the final battle. Spends the rest of the comic screwing around with the IFCC in the underworld. Mr. Scruffy gets the Fiendish template.

:durkon: - Dies in the final battle, specifically vs. :redcloak:, stopping him from shifting the Gate. Later seen drinking with Thor.

:vaarsuvius: - Dies in the final battle simultaneously stopping :xykon: while :durkon: stops :redcloak: Resurrected post-battle and goes home to the family.

:roy: - Survives, deals the final blow against Demilich :xykon: in his Astral Fortress which is strangely reminiscent of the Tomb of Horrors.

:haley: - Survives, holds off the minions/traps/etc. with :elan:, while :roy: deals with :xykon:

:elan: - Seemingly dies, but :haley: shouts at him for trying to score "Heroic Sacrifice" drama, at which point he jumps up and congratulates her for being genre-savvy enough to tell he was faking.

I could live with this.
Why wouldn't Belkar (:smallamused:) And Durkon be rezzed though?

[skaddix]

I can see the party not wanting to bring back belkar as for Durkon either unmake at the hands of the Snarl or he goes the Shojo route and choses not get resurrected. Either Way Works.

of course might need to replace those two if they die before the end. Hard to get a worse tracker then Belkar though and they know some paladins so getting a new healer should be an easy.

[Kobold-Bard]

I could live with this.
Why wouldn't Belkar (:smallamused:) And Durkon be rezzed though?

Besides it being in the best interests of the world in general for Belkar to stay dead, I reckon he will enjoy the infinite potential for murder & evil inherent to the Abyss and would refuse even if resurrection was offered (assuming Mr. Scruffy is around).

As for Durkon, his family is dead so will be waiting for him in the afterlife, and he'll be in the domain of his deity. I reckon he'll decline in favour of his version of paradise.

[Flame of Anor]

You're very welcome. That's a pet peeve of mine as well.

And for that, you make the buddy list. :smallwink:

[JCarter426]

True, but he sure would prefer to return to dwarven lands alive. So I don't understand how his prophecy is a good thing for him. It's a better response than "never", but still...

To him, he "just" had been sent to a studying humans mission. He totally should expect it to end and allow him to make his report, then to enjoy the rest and his live and dwarven beer.
Yes, but as he said, he didn't expect to wind up saving the world from a lich, either.

[RoboChap]

As for Durkon, his family is dead so will be waiting for him in the afterlife, and he'll be in the domain of his deity. I reckon he'll decline in favour of his version of paradise.

Personally, I think that given the choice of remaining dead in his version of paradise or being rezzed to continue a quest to save the world, Durkon would choose the latter. A Dwarfs duty is more important than a Dwarfs happiness after all (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html), and I think he would feel duty bound to stand by Roy to the end

[Kobold-Bard]

Personally, I think that given the choice of remaining dead in his version of paradise or being rezzed to continue a quest to save the world, Durkon would choose the latter. A Dwarfs duty is more important than a Dwarfs happiness after all (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html), and I think he would feel duty bound to stand by Roy to the end

Well assuming I'm right about him dying before the final act of the battle, who is going to rez him in time to help with Xykon?

And after Xykon's dead he's no longer duty-bound to Roy and Roy's no longer on his grand adventure (I see him retiring and moving in with Celia to have weird Air-Genasi kids) so I see no reason why he would have to come back. I know technically he can still do some random good, but he's already helped prevent one apocalypse, and except for sequels (which we pretty much know OotS won't have) and ensemble-cast pieces which satirise the genre their characters are from (which won't let death stop them from happening), player characters only have to stop one apocalypse/lifetime.

I don't know, coming back to do random good deeds without any clear purpose just seems fairly crap compared to spending every day drinking with your honoured ancestors & your deity.

[RoboChap]

Ah, sorry, yeah in that scenario I imagine he would stay dead. Sorry, think I got a little mixed up between posts quoting posts and thought that was in response to a "Durkon dies but gets rezzed at Kraagors gate" theory, and why he wouldn't want to be!

[Smolder]

I could live with this.
Why wouldn't Belkar (:smallamused:) And Durkon be rezzed though?

Would it count if Belkar fell/jumped into the Snarl/portal and ended up on that other planet in there?

I mean, he's effectively removed from the story, and from the point of view of those still in Ootsverse, they witnessed his death as far as they know.

Although if Elan and Haley fell through together, they could arguably have a happy ending living happily ever after on the other side, so it could go either way.

[JCarter426]

The prophecy is that he "will draw his last breath ever", so that wouldn't qualify.

[LordVader]

I wouldn't necessarily call Elan safe based on the prophecy; a Chaotic Good afterlife with Haley and his family is certainly a "happy ending".

[Smolder]

I wouldn't necessarily call Elan safe based on the prophecy; a Chaotic Good afterlife with Haley and his family is certainly a "happy ending".

What would a Chaotic Good afterlife look like? I imagine it would probably be much like Las Vegas, sinful but benign.


While we're on the subject of odds, I'd be willing to bet that Belkar dies at the hands of a kobold. It would make Belkar's murder streak a plot point instead of a punch line.

The Oracle took a good shot at it by founding Lickmyorangeballshalfling (Pop. Just Enough) but my feeling is that someone named Y_kY_k will have the last laugh.