View Full Version : Umm, is Gobbotopia Forgetting Something?
Namely the (proverbial) sword of Damocles (literally) hanging over everyone's head? Was it really such a bright idea to construct your new society underneath a potentially world-destroying planar rift and then ignore it?
Something tells me that as soon as Redcloak returns to Gobbotopia and finds out that he was never their true leader, that thing is going to go off and save him by destroying his kingdom in a bizarre twist of fate possibly causing character development.
raphfrk
2012-02-27, 07:37 PM
Something tells me that as soon as Redcloak returns to Gobbotopia and finds out that he was never their true leader
Huh, he is the chief priest of their god?
Huh, he is the chief priest of their god?
But not necessarily Supreme Leader of the Hobgoblins. There may be a minor technicality there.
149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html)
SaintRidley
2012-02-27, 07:53 PM
But not necessarily Supreme Leader of the Hobgoblins. There may be a minor technicality there.
149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html)
Power was pretty much ceded there by the Supreme Leader.
Math_Mage
2012-02-27, 08:01 PM
He's the High Priest of the Dark One. End of that discussion.
As for the Rift, we'll see. So far it doesn't seem to be the world-eating monstrosity everyone thinks it is.
ti'esar
2012-02-27, 08:04 PM
I don't think we're going to see the former Supreme Leader again.
The possibility that the rift is going to prove a bad thing for Gobbotopia in the long run, though, isn't something as lightly discounted. Certainly would settle the question of who ends up running the place in the end.
MesiDoomstalker
2012-02-27, 08:16 PM
Well lets look at it from Soon's point of view. He established Azure City as a powerful city-state so he can defend the gate with the cities' armies. Essentially he was ensuring there was an active defence, even unwittingly, for the gate on top of the back up spirit thingies even after his death.
Now from RC's point of view. He had just uprooted and killed a large population of Hobgoblins. His ultimate goal is to put goblinoids as a respectable race and as a world power. He failed in capturing the gate intact (which would of achieved his ultimate goal) but he did obtain a fortifiable position with established infrastructure and lands fit for agricutlure. When he decided to stay in the Former Azure City, the rift was not nearly as big as it is. He established Gobbotopia, or atleast decided to, before the rift had become an issue. Once established, his citizens expected change and they got it. It was really too late to relocate Gobbotopia. The only reason Gobbotopia is what it is is because RC cripped what Azure City had developed before them. It would have been impossible to establish it anywhere else in the time they did. It is not ideal, I'm not saying it is. But RC did wonderful things with the resources he had available.
Flame of Anor
2012-02-27, 08:38 PM
I don't think we're going to see the former Supreme Leader again.
It would be hilarious if we did, though.
Dr. Strangelove
2012-02-27, 08:51 PM
Well, why shouldn't the gobbos create their state when they have the chance? If the world does end by the snarl, no real loss. If it doesn't end and gobbotopia survives, fine. If you don't take the chance to found your state and the world ends, no loss. If you don't take your chance at it and the world survives, you've lost your chance.
There's no real reason not to go for it. The world ends or it doesn't in either case, in one you end up better off, in the others you end up no worse off.
The only worse case scenario for the gobs is that this makes people take them seriously, which is what RC wants, and they respond by launching a genocidal war on the gobs now that they're a threat. Ok, one bad scenario there....
Still, all in all the gobs are going for it when they have their chance, and in most outcomes they end up little worse off, in some they end up a lot but in others they come out a lot better off, it's not an unreasonable gamble. Well, unless some high powered AC cleric makes a deal with the IFCC and casts a genocidal spell on the gob race.
Zevox
2012-02-27, 09:04 PM
They don't exactly have a choice. Azure City is the place they have conquered, precisely because the gate was there. Xykon sure as heck isn't going to let them go conquer someplace else - he wants them doing his bidding, and he doesn't care about whether they have a nation or not. They have to use what they've got, whether the rift makes it look risky or not.
Zevox
MesiDoomstalker
2012-02-27, 09:09 PM
What Zevox and Dr. Strangelove said too. They had an opportunity and can't really go any lower than they are. Its a win-or-go-back-to-where-they-started situation.
silvadel
2012-02-27, 09:13 PM
Actually the large ever-present rift is very bad-a**...
Would you try to conquer a city with that hovering over it?
At the very least it would give any invader pause and shake their morale somewhat.
Still, all in all the gobs are going for it when they have their chance, and in most outcomes they end up little worse off, in some they end up a lot but in others they come out a lot better off, it's not an unreasonable gamble. Well, unless some high powered AC cleric makes a deal with the IFCC and casts a genocidal spell on the gob race.
For Now, Hinjo didn't manage to get the clerics on board during the battle of Azure City. The two known clerics were killed by RC's raid on the Resistance (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0825.html).
Unless for course, a min max barbarian with a bull strength's scrolls came along to dig them up (Stupid Idea).
Idhan
2012-02-27, 10:39 PM
Well lets look at it from Soon's point of view. He established Azure City as a powerful city-state so he can defend the gate with the cities' armies. Essentially he was ensuring there was an active defence, even unwittingly, for the gate on top of the back up spirit thingies even after his death.
I doubt that Soon established Azure City as a powerful city-state. My guess is that it was established as a powerful city-state before the rifts' appearance due to its good harbor and position vis-à-vis maritime trade routes. If Soon established it personally, then he probably would have become its lord, but Soon was not Azure City's lord -- rather, he handed the "commander of the Sapphire Guard" position to the city's hereditary lord as an old man. Soon just established the Sapphire Guard. (I could be misunderstanding your original point, though.)
MesiDoomstalker
2012-02-27, 10:46 PM
I doubt that Soon established Azure City as a powerful city-state. My guess is that it was established as a powerful city-state before the rifts' appearance due to its good harbor and position vis-à-vis maritime trade routes. If Soon established it personally, then he probably would have become its lord, but Soon was not Azure City's lord -- rather, he handed the "commander of the Sapphire Guard" position to the city's hereditary lord as an old man. Soon just established the Sapphire Guard. (I could be misunderstanding your original point, though.)
I admit my information may be inaccurate as it comes from commentary from a book I do not own. If I am wrong, please someone who has the book clarify and correct me. But my point was that the city was a defence in of it self as any would be attacker of the gate will have to capture the city in all likely hood and thus must defeat the cities defenses. Thus, the city and it's army/defences were defences for the gate just as much as they were for the city, albeit unwittingly to the general public.
Idhan
2012-02-27, 11:13 PM
As for the original question, I'm wondering about it too. It seems like Xykon and Redcloak should be thinking about how to seal the rifts that were opened in addition to their focus on the remaining undamaged gates. Since the Order of the Scribble sealed the rifts, perhaps Xykon and Redcloak could too (althoug Redcloak might need a few more levels before he has the power to). Ultimately, even if they succeed in controlling a gate, they'll have to patch up the rifts. Being able to blackmail the gods won't help them with that one, because the gods themselves don't know how to deal with the rifts without destroying the world to make a new one.
I admit my information may be inaccurate as it comes from commentary from a book I do not own. If I am wrong, please someone who has the book clarify and correct me. But my point was that the city was a defence in of it self as any would be attacker of the gate will have to capture the city in all likely hood and thus must defeat the cities defenses. Thus, the city and it's army/defences were defences for the gate just as much as they were for the city, albeit unwittingly to the general public.
I don't own any OotS books, but it looks to me like 1) Soon considered himself to be a resident of Azure City prior to the discovery of the rifts, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html) and 2) the rift in the skies above Azure City was already above a blue-hued city recognizable as Azure City while it was still open. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) The fact that the rift appeared over an urban area necessarily meant that, if a gate were built over the rift, the defenses of the city were also to some extent defenses of the gate (although one wonders what would have happened if a rift had appeared over, say, Greysky City or some other less orderly city.), but the rift appeared over the city; the city wasn't created to guard the rift.
The secular authorities of Azure City did seem to be quite accommodating to Soon's efforts, going so far as to place the throne room in the same place as the gate, but ultimately, the rift over Azure City was something the Azurites just couldn't ignore regardless of how they felt about Soon or the Order of the Scribble in general.
He's the High Priest of the Dark One. End of that discussion.
As for the Rift, we'll see. So far it doesn't seem to be the world-eating monstrosity everyone thinks it is.
I have my doubts that the snarl is secretly all puppies and rainbows. You wouldn't happen to know when the last "Crackpot Snarl Theory" thread was, would you?
aldeayeah
2012-02-28, 11:48 AM
It would be hilarious if we did, though.
It would be hilarious and awesome if he had been Jirix all along, hiding in plain sight.
fwiffo
2012-02-28, 12:43 PM
As for the original question, I'm wondering about it too. It seems like Xykon and Redcloak should be thinking about how to seal the rifts that were opened in addition to their focus on the remaining undamaged gates. Since the Order of the Scribble sealed the rifts, perhaps Xykon and Redcloak could too (althoug Redcloak might need a few more levels before he has the power to). Ultimately, even if they succeed in controlling a gate, they'll have to patch up the rifts. Being able to blackmail the gods won't help them with that one, because the gods themselves don't know how to deal with the rifts without destroying the world to make a new one.
I have always wondered about that (unless it was already discussed and I missed it).
The gods weave a prison for Snarl. The prison has some weaknesses in it, aka the rifts. Snarl pokes out of the rifts and kills people, like Soon's wife. Order of the Scribble seals the rifts with gates, thus guaranteeing integrity of the prison. All 5 holes through which snarl can poke out are closed.
Then we go on our little Xykon rampage. Lirian's gate is down, Dorukan gate is down, Soon's gate is down. Rifts are opened. So, why the heck are they not concerned with that? If snarl is sealed and cant get out of ruined gates, why not just ruin all of them? And if it is not sealed and can get out, then why is nobody really saying "bleep, we need to reestablish the seal"?
What's the big deal about moving one of the gates so you can open it and blackmail whoever that snarl would poke out of the rift when there already 3 rifts that are opened? If it was a big deal for Order of the Scribble to seal the rifts why is it not big deal for Order of the Stick to re-seal them now? What am I missing?
Red XIV
2012-02-28, 12:43 PM
The rift has pretty much stabilized (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0544.html). I don't think there's any pressing danger, unless the two remaining gates both get destroyed too. And if/when that happens, I'm not thinking it particularly matters where in the world the goblinoid races have their nation set up. Everywhere would be equally threatened.
aldeayeah
2012-02-28, 03:01 PM
What's the big deal about moving one of the gates so you can open it and blackmail whoever that snarl would poke out of the rift when there already 3 rifts that are opened?
The big deal is that you can move the Gate to other planes of existence and use it as an anti-god weapon, something you can't do with an open rift.
As for the plane the OOTS world is located in... yup, with all those open rifts, it seems to be on the way to destruction.
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