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View Full Version : White Raven Tactics+Adaptive Style+Cloud of knives?



gomipile
2012-02-28, 06:00 PM
Step 1: Delay action until the bottom of the initiative order, say initiative=1
Step 2: Cast Cloud of Knives
Step 3: Initiate White Raven Tactics, initiative count becomes 0
Step 4: On Initiative 0, release a knife as a free action with cloud of knives
Step 5: Use Adaptive Style as a full-round action to recover White Raven Tactics
Step 6: Initiate White Raven Tactics, making initiative count -1

Repeat steps 4 through 6, pushing initiative count further into the negatives until every enemy target within range is dead. This all happens within the space of one combat round, so Cloud of Knives never expires even if it is cast normally with no metamagic. Also, initiative count can be negative, since initiative penalties(low dex, Unreactive flaw, etc.) have to have meaning even if you roll very low.

So, other than a pedantic interpretation of the words "each round" in the description of Cloud of Knives, why wouldn't this work?

Mari01
2012-02-28, 06:55 PM
Step 1: Delay action until the bottom of the initiative order, say initiative=1
Step 2: Cast Cloud of Knives
Step 3: Initiate White Raven Tactics, initiative count becomes 0
Step 4: On Initiative 0, release a knife as a free action with cloud of knives
Step 5: Use Adaptive Style as a full-round action to recover White Raven Tactics
Step 6: Initiate White Raven Tactics, making initiative count -1

Repeat steps 4 through 6, pushing initiative count further into the negatives until every enemy target within range is dead. This all happens within the space of one combat round, so Cloud of Knives never expires even if it is cast normally with no metamagic. Also, initiative count can be negative, since initiative penalties(low dex, Unreactive flaw, etc.) have to have meaning even if you roll very low.

So, other than a pedantic interpretation of the words "each round" in the description of Cloud of Knives, why wouldn't this work?

When taking the full round action how are you going to act immdeiately after? If you're going last and THEN using Adaptive style, wouldnt the initative start back at the top?

gomipile
2012-02-28, 07:29 PM
When taking the full round action how are you going to act immdeiately after? If you're going last and THEN using Adaptive style, wouldnt the initative start back at the top?

White Raven Tactics is a swift action. And it specifically says that its targets initiative(in this case your own) becomes your current initiative -1. AFAIK, there is no RAW that states subtracting one from your initiative count can put you at the top of the order of the next round.

Douglas
2012-02-28, 07:33 PM
White Raven Tactics is a swift action. And it specifically says that its targets initiative(in this case your own) becomes your current initiative -1. AFAIK, there is no RAW that states subtracting one from your initiative count can put you at the top of the order of the next round.
It doesn't put you at the top of the order of the next round, it puts you at an initiative count that hasn't happened yet in the current round. White Raven Tactics is explicit that this results in the target getting another turn in the same round if he's already acted this round.

Edit: Oh, wait, you're the OP and you understand this already. I think you phrased your point poorly in the post I quoted, though.