OOTS #842 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Aurorax]

New comic is up.

Ouch....that's gotta sting.

[Alysar]

Whelp, there's one forum theory confirmed.

Now lets see if V is going to cop to what really happened. Personally, I think she will.

[Helinon]

Well we know how Draketooth got his name now at least. Way for your actions to come back and bite you V. Also great twist, never saw it coming.

[BenjCano]

That's....that's quite horrible, actually. Well done, Giant!

[Gamgee]

Mother of god. (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/199/693/disgusted-mother-of-god.png?1321272571) :smallcool: :smalleek:

[Pokonic]

Huh. I... honastly thought it was not real. Dang. Nice job, V. Nice job.

[Mutant Sheep]

It was Familicide. Cool. Score 2 for the crazy theory brigade this book. :smalltongue: (yes, there was a bit nice amount of evidence towards this, especially the "it was elven lunchtime" thing that came up. Good call.)

[Skyrunner]

Forum theory (stamp) confirmed!

Just happened to be when I was on!


Poor V :( S/he killed who could have been the strongest ally yet ...

[One Skunk Todd]

And Familicide it is. Poor V. :(

[Ulysses WkAmil]

Wow...I had heard speculations but...I...um...wow...

[Pterocards]

Woo Entomology! As an entomologist this pleased me....I wondered why the scarabs didn't eat those corpses....

[EpicLevelDM]

...OH WOW! The Draketooths were really part dragon! That's a HUGE spoiler twist! Good job Rich! Good job everyone who cracked the code!

[whitelaughter]

[Nods] The obvious question - what does V tell the others?

Plot has trumphed rules though: a simple illusion to strengthen the defences is to Shadow Conjure a Sepia Snake Sigil: the spell is permanent until triggered, no material components, and can be cast repeatedly on the same text. Haley and V should have jst been hammered with multiple attacks.

Still, arguably Haley went through disarming them all - not a spell that can normally be disarmed, but reasonable house rule given it would be wekaer than a true Sepia Snake Sigil.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Ooooh...:smalleek:

Let's look on the upside. If Xykon finds out about this, he'll be laughing too hard to defend himself, for a while anyway.

[EpicLevelDM]

...OH WOW! The Draketooths were really part dragon! That's a HUGE spoiler twist! Good job Rich! Good job everyone who cracked the code!

[Doc Kraken]

Wonder how V's going to explain this...or even if s/he will.

[Devonix]

And thus we people can fully realize just why Familicide was an evil act.

[SgtCarnage92]

Was reading through the archives again when this was posted. It seemed like it was too obvious of a fan theory from a beginning, but alas it ended up working out. Weird thing is this may actually make the OoTS's job easier seeing as many of the illusions won't be in play. Granted, it may help all of the other sides to the same degree, we can only hope that Roy and crew can make it there first. :) Great comic as always giant!:smallbiggrin:

[Incom]

So it has come to this. :smalleek:

Well done, GITP. Score one nut for the blind squirrels. Let's see if we can break the thread length record again? :smallwink:

So Girard is a quarter-dragon? I'd have thought that would be a bit more visible, but then, alter self and whatnot...

[Shale]

Well isn't that highly unlikely.

[Timeless Error]

So it was Familicide!

Well done, Playground. You have finally managed to predict a Rich Burlew-style plot twist.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

double post.

[t209]

V RUINED EVERYTHING!!!
DRAKETOOTHS ARE DEAD SINCE THEIR ANCESTORS INCLUDE DRAGONBORNS (NOT SKYRIM Version)
Nice job V, Nice job ruining the world.
I was hoping to see Penelope's daughter or seeing entire Draketooths libering Azure City.
Illusion- busted
Mass Undead idea- busted
Familicide- confirmed
First The resistance, now this!!

[SgtCarnage92]

Was reading through the archives again when this was posted. It seemed like it was too obvious of a fan theory from a beginning, but alas it ended up working out. Weird thing is this may actually make the OoTS's job easier seeing as many of the illusions won't be in play. Granted, it may help all of the other sides to the same degree, we can only hope that Roy and crew can make it there first. :) Great comic as always giant!:smallbiggrin:

[MoonCat]

Holy **** Giant

[DaggerPen]

Holy crap.

Holy crap.

HOLY CRAP.

I knew the forum speculation, but I didn't think he'd actually

Wow.

Things have just hit the fan.

Now that my initial reaction is out of the way- I bet that's how Tarquin's last wife died, too. Remember, wording of Familicide was "Every living creature that directly shares your bloodline is dead. Every living creature that is related to any of THOSE creatures is dead." If the Draketooths shared the bloodline, then Penelope would have been screwed by reason of her child with a Draketooth- related to someone who shared that bloodline.

[One Skunk Todd]

And I think I recognize most of those under Girard as people dead on the floor. Now to figure out who, if anybody is missing.

You know I must be wrong. I was lookin at everybody on the fourth row as part of Girard's clan, but many of those are nieces and nephews. I'm not sure he would have brought his brother and sister, and their families into this. Although presumably those families are just as dead.

[JCarter426]

See, now I'm convinced. :smalltongue: But I still wouldn't rule out the possibility that it's a ruse designed specifically to fool V and the Order - a bit far fetched, but no more far fetched than I thought familicide was to begin with.

Interesting seeing them work out all the possibilities, too. Reminded me of us.

[Seerow]

Wow, I read the theories, but didn't buy into it. I honestly thought it had been a few months (just in traveling time) since Familicide, so didn't see how the timelines could fit.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Woohooo! And right after my chem prelim too; thank you!

I knew it! I knew it and so did a lot of other people too!

[HUMVEE Driver]

It will be interesting to see V's reaction to all this.

[B. Dandelion]

Not only was the Familicide guess right, even the "it's the family tree on the wall next to the door with a dragon" theory was right. Wow, guys.

[ellindsey]

Yep. Answered every question asked about the Familicide theory.

[INoKnowNames]

I just got in trouble....

Because I saw the comic updated and saw the end panel, and I yelled Holy **** so loud my mom heard me and yelled at me for my language.

But I don't care, because -HOLY ****-! I did -NOT- see -THAT- coming.

Is everything in the plot capable of carrying such -MASSIVE- reprocutions? Well, not everything was as big as -that-, but still! Anything else significant that occured in the past yet to cause such a ripple?

Jesus.... Sucks to be Vaarsuvius... went too far.... went -way- too far... did the Draketooths deserve to suffer for the sake of his/her children and husband/wife?

This comic is amazing..... although the fridge -HORROR- alone, not to mention the recent level of darkness displayed in some parts (especially by the new King of the Knights of Cerberus, Redcloak) makes me wonder at what age range is it appropriate for... certainly not something a kid could read...

Then again, some of the good natured jokes weren't for that age range anyway.

[t209]

V RUINED EVERYTHING!!!
DRAKETOOTHS ARE DEAD SINCE THEIR ANCESTORS INCLUDE DRAGONBORNS (NOT SKYRIM Version)
Nice job V, Nice job ruining the world.
I was hoping to see Penelope's daughter or seeing entire Draketooths libering Azure City.
Illusion- busted
Mass Undead idea- busted
Familicide- confirmed
First The resistance, now this!!

[oppyu]

Everyone was saying it, but I was certain that it couldn't be... damn...

On the bright side, no defences. The Order of the Stick can just march in, and then defend the gate from the New Linear Guild and Team Evil with no assistance whatsoever... woohoo.

[EpicLevelDM]

Just amazing, the forum theory was correct! :smalleek:
Man you guys are amazing at cracking this...
Now the question is...What's V gonna do? He just slaughtered the ENTIRE Draketooth family!!!

[HUMVEE Driver]

No idea why this double-posted...

[SgtCarnage92]

Was reading through the archives again when this was posted. It seemed like it was too obvious of a fan theory from a beginning, but alas it ended up working out. Weird thing is this may actually make the OoTS's job easier seeing as many of the illusions won't be in play. Granted, it may help all of the other sides to the same degree, we can only hope that Roy and crew can make it there first. :) Great comic as always giant!:smallbiggrin:

[ellindsey]

Now time for more crack theories: Did the IFCC plan this?

[Raithix]

When V first cast familicide, it never occured to me that this would be a side effect...beautifully executed twist in the plot. No matter how V handles this, it will be fun to watch unfold.

[Mighty_Chicken]

Well done Giant!

One question thought, all the theories in the forums, did you considered them spoilers, or did you like all the buzz about what killed the Draketooth clan?

[HUMVEE Driver]

I don't know why my post keeps posting...

[EpicLevelDM]

Just amazing, the forum theory was correct! :smalleek:
Man you guys are amazing at cracking this...
Now the question is...What's V gonna do? He just slaughtered the ENTIRE Draketooth family!!!

[HUMVEE Driver]

Or quadruple-posted! WTF? Can a mod delete all of these? Sorry!

[Mauve Shirt]

There is only one response to this comic.
****.

[SgtCarnage92]

Was reading through the archives again when this was posted. It seemed like it was too obvious of a fan theory from a beginning, but alas it ended up working out. Weird thing is this may actually make the OoTS's job easier seeing as many of the illusions won't be in play. Granted, it may help all of the other sides to the same degree, we can only hope that Roy and crew can make it there first. :) Great comic as always giant!:smallbiggrin:

[ThePhantom]

Well, if Girard is still alive, he is going to be very, very ticked off at V.

[Timeless Error]

This comic actually managed to catch me completely by surprise, despite the Playground guessing it beforehand. I considered it plausible as a theory, but I didn't think the Giant would actually do it. Wow.

[Greenknight 007]

Odd thing:
The title of this comic is also of another comic.
Nice plot twist--

[MoonCat]

Interesting Read the name chart. We see that Orrin was alive before V did... all that.

[Mauve Shirt]

There is only one response to this comic.
****.

[Agnostik]

-1 coolness point to Roy for discouraging entomology. :smallyuk:

[Doc Kraken]

Wonder how V's going to explain this...or even if s/he will.

[MReav]

Now time for more crack theories: Did the IFCC plan this?

Not likely. They were just as stunned as we were when V cast the spell.

[Rorrik]

Poor V. That'll shake him up. I think we now know the reason for demonstrating V's growing heartlessness. His dedication to redemption should pick up now for a big change in attitude.

[One Skunk Todd]

Can somebody post the spell org chart? It's too blurry to make out on my iPad.

[theMycon]

And thus we people can fully realize just why Familicide was an evil act.

But if genocide isn't wrong when a race can choose to look different from you, why is genocide wrong when some of the race looks like you? Or is it worse because they could have used the innocent victims?

[SavageWombat]

Boy, am I glad that's over.


See, now I'm convinced. :smalltongue: But I still wouldn't rule out the possibility that it's a ruse designed specifically to fool V and the Order - a bit far fetched, but no more far fetched than I thought familicide was to begin with.

I'll grant that's a possibility.


Interesting seeing them work out all the possibilities, too. Reminded me of us.

I suspect Rich has been working hard to create that extra page just to answer all the questions raised here.

[Zorgophlats]

Skyrim.

Stop quoting Skyrim.

This is NOT Skyrim.

This will never be about Skyrim.

Or the Elder Scrolls for that matter.

I play the game and I like it.

These are two completely different things.

No more about Skyrim, please.

[One Skunk Todd]

Oh I just noticed the map next to the schedule. Hopefully they'll have the sense to grab that.

[lee7pwnage]

So let me get this straight:

The Draketooths are all dead, and the defenses around the gate are failing. So this leaves the Order of the Stick and a mind-controlled Kobold to face off against not only the rapidly approaching Team Evil, but also against a souped-up Linear Guild.

So V was responsible for the whole mess, and Belkar is due to die any time.

**** just got real.

[SavageWombat]

That is an awful lot of double-posts.

[CloakedDancer]

So now everyone who called familicide can say they're right. And I can say I'm disappointed. :smallsigh:

[The Anti Hero]

Wow. I mean... Wow. Despite all of the speculation, that still floored me. And, on a related note, I really hope that this puts an end to all those "was the killing of a 1/4th of all black dragons morally justified or not" threads. I think the answer just became abundantly clear....

As one last side note... Damn V got play (I'm going ahead and saying that the IFCC planned this, which seems pretty likely).

[Skyrunner]

Yes, I hope they are smart enough to grab the map and somehow fend off the Linear Guild v2.0 T.T Noooooo!

[Lix Lorn]

ohgod
oh
just
ohgod.

[Euodiachloris]

OK -- looks like Mama ABD had a brother with weird tastes, alrighty... :smalleek:

Now I'm on tenderhooks: I can't even guess exactly how V's reaction will play out with the rest. Well, I can... but there are several ways.

No bets on exactly how much gloating (in various ways) Belkar does, though. :smallwink:

[rbetieh]

Congrats to everyone who guessed familicide on this one. I was certainly not ready to see Girard only 2 generations away from an actual dragon. It was a male dragon too....interesting.

[Crisis21]

You know, I think this may also solve the mystery of what happened to Tarquin's 9th wife, Penelope. Because she was a direct relative of a member of the Draketooth family, she would have been targeted by the spell.

[bobthe6th]

hey V, look on the bright side. you can now compare kill counts with Xyon... He still probably has more, but its up there.

I also hope V learned why necromancy is so much more eficiant then evocation here.

And remember the first rule of blood feuds, if you have to start it end it quickly.

[SweetBB]

Oh my lord. Poor V. Can't say I am surprised at this point, but poor V. :smalleek:

[iBear]

What forum theories are you all talking about? That they'd all been killed by the Familicide spell?

Also, what did Roy mean by, "The day I was resurrected. That would fit with Durkon's timeframe"?

[DaggerPen]

That is an awful lot of double-posts.

Yeah, the forums have been doing that a lot lately. I don't imagine all the forum-goers rushing here after the new comics have helped any.

[MoonCat]

Interesting Read the name chart. We see that Orrin was alive before V did... all that.

[Acora]

Holy.... I think V's face in that second to last panel is the best explanation of my reaction.

[One Skunk Todd]

... It was a male dragon too....interesting.

ABD's brother perhaps?

[Adama]

I have to admit, I'm surprised. I thought the whole Draketooth = dragon idea was kind of farfetched, and that this was going to be a separate use of Familicide by the IFCC intent on stripping the protections from the gate.

[SavageWombat]

What forum theories are you all talking about? That they'd all been killed by the Familicide spell?

Also, what did Roy mean by, "The day I was resurrected. That would fit with Durkon's timeframe"?

Makes it clear that, according to Durkon's estimate, the deaths happened on the same day he came back - the same day V had his "episode".

[Shale]

iBear: Yeah, there was a ton of debate over whether the dead bodies were the result of Familicide, poison, an illusion, or something else entirely.

And Roy means that the Draketooths stopped checking off tasks (and, by implication, died) on the day he was resurrected, which is also the day V cast Familicide.

[JCarter426]

Boy, am I glad that's over.
To be fair, I started to view the theory with far less scrutiny somewhere in the first page. And I do like that it took the family tree to convince V. :smallwink:

[Connington]

Well, if Girard is still alive, he is going to be very, very ticked off at V.

I think we can safely say that Girard is dead. Familicide slaughtered powerful black dragons by the score. I doubt that even an epic level spellcaster could survive it.

Also, gotta love how Girard's wall-drawing has a halo around it. Glad to see he never turned himself into one of those authority figures he hates so much.

Incidentally, this is the second time Rich has used "All in the Family" as a strip title. And the second time in the last ten comics that he's recycled a strip title. It doesn't really matter of course, since strip titles are just passing jokes that don't even get into print.

[zql]

Everyone was saying it, but I was certain that it couldn't be... damn...

On the bright side, no defences. The Order of the Stick can just march in, and then defend the gate from the New Linear Guild and Team Evil with no assistance whatsoever... woohoo.


Woohoo? They are soooo screwed.

[ellindsey]

Can somebody post the spell org chart? It's too blurry to make out on my iPad.

Here's what I can make out. It's blurry on my screen too.

GINA MIRAGE ARCANA
ORRIN PHANTASMAGORIA
SAMU SCREEN
KANTA SHIFTING PATHS
VENNA SHIFTING PATHS
TIRAN SR. ILLUSORY PIT
TIRAN JR. MISDITECTION
DYLAN FALSE VISION
LIANA WALL OF GLOOM

Days of the week, monday to sunday, are across the top.

[One Skunk Todd]

What forum theories are you all talking about? That they'd all been killed by the Familicide spell?

Also, what did Roy mean by, "The day I was resurrected. That would fit with Durkon's timeframe"?

Durkon says they've been dead a fortnight, fourteen days. In comic time, fourteen days ago, V cast familicide a short time before Roy was ressurrected.

[bhtooefr]

See, now I'm convinced. :smalltongue: But I still wouldn't rule out the possibility that it's a ruse designed specifically to fool V and the Order - a bit far fetched, but no more far fetched than I thought familicide was to begin with.

Interesting seeing them work out all the possibilities, too. Reminded me of us.

It'd have to have been the IFCC that did it, though - and, based on Penelope dying, they'd have to ACTUALLY do a Familicide - not the Draketooths themselves. They're the only ones who knew both that Vaarsuvius was going after Girard's Gate, and that V had used familicide.

Also... this completely debunks anything making Haley related to the Draketooths, of course.

[eusticepious]

See, now I'm convinced. :smalltongue: But I still wouldn't rule out the possibility that it's a ruse designed specifically to fool V and the Order - a bit far fetched, but no more far fetched than I thought familicide was to begin with.

Interesting seeing them work out all the possibilities, too. Reminded me of us.

I agree. Familcide is an epic spell and Girard is an epic illusionist. A "worst nightmere" illusion is plausible.

[Smolder]

I thought all of the discussion of Familicide actually made the reveal more exciting, rather than spoiling it.

[TechnoScrabble]

Wow...if all the crazy comic conspiracy theorists were right...what about the others?
I was waiting for repercussions, though. Nice to see the gun hit Chekhov dead on.

[EternalRuin]

Just... wow :smalleek:. Saw it coming along with half the forums, and yet its still pretty shocking...

Do y'all think that Girard himself was killed, or if he made his saving throw?

And, entirely unrelated, what the heck is going on with the double/triple/quadruple posts? :smallconfused:

EDIT: And also: why the heck do they write with magic/illusions only, leaving but scratches visible to normal people (I assume that's why we can only see the family line proper when looking from V's viewpoint)

And I count at LEAST 33 people in that tree. V has quite a kill count now :smalleek:

[Vercon]

OOTS needs a soundtrack. I could almost hear the violins playing when V saw the family tree.

[brionl]

Dun Dun DUNNNNHHH!!!

[iBear]

Thank you, SavageWombat and Shale. My mind keeps confusing Durkon with Dorukan. Makes much more sense.

Oh, and holy ****, I didn't see that coming. The comics just keep getting better and better.

[Elfinor]

Wow, I read the theories, but didn't buy into it. I honestly thought it had been a few months (just in traveling time) since Familicide, so didn't see how the timelines could fit. Yeah, I'd pegged it at a few weeks (based mostly on Belkar's observation (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0779.html) in jail) but someone corrected me and said it was probably a week or so less than that. It took Durkon a few days (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0643.html) to get there after getting contacted by the sending, and just before he arrived V casted Familicide.

My theory was that whatever killed them killed Penelope as well, but her funeral was held just over a week ago (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0727.html). We still don't know what could have killed her, though I suppose it could've been Familicide if there was enough time between her death and the state funeral. Or, if Girard survived, it could've been him tying up loose ends.

[Cranica]

Durkon can't Raise them because they were killed by a death effect, but what about his scroll of Resurrection? He's been "saving it for an emergency" if the IFCC is to be trusted, and this certainly qualifies.

[Stabbey]

I was one of the ones who thought it was highly implausible that V's Familicide just HAPPENED to take out the Draketooth line. And yet, this reveal is just so clever and succinct that I don't mind.

[snikrept]

Now it will be interesting to see if an epic level illusionist has defended at all against epic level necromancy.

Also, assuming he's represented by the figure with the halo, Girard was 1/4 draconic. Why a halo, I wonder?

EDIT also, it appears that Familicide works backwards up the family tree as well, if we are to assume that Tarquin and Nale's confusion about who killed Tarquin's wife is because V did it.

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'll be honest, I thought the Familicide theory was too easy to deduce. In my arrogance I didn't consider that just because a plot twist was easy to see coming does not mean its reprecautions can not be dramatic and unexpected. So while I did not support the Familicide theory, I congratulate the Giant on making the reveal not only dramatic, but the reprecautions to come be epic in proportions as I think we all know he will. Kudos, Giant.

[SaintRidley]

Congrats to everyone who guessed familicide on this one. I was certainly not ready to see Girard only 2 generations away from an actual dragon. It was a male dragon too....interesting.

Not necessarily. Dragons generally breed with humans by shapeshifting into human forms. This dragon might have been a lady dragon who felt a bit kinky.


What forum theories are you all talking about? That they'd all been killed by the Familicide spell?

Also, what did Roy mean by, "The day I was resurrected. That would fit with Durkon's timeframe"?

Roy is referring to the last date at which the illusions were updated - a couple weeks ago, on the Wednesday he was resurrected.





I want to draw your attention to the family tree. Look at Girard on there. Notice the halo-like thing. Odds of the Draketooth clan revering Girard as a deity of sorts? I think so.

[Rorrik]

What forum theories are you all talking about? That they'd all been killed by the Familicide spell?

Also, what did Roy mean by, "The day I was resurrected. That would fit with Durkon's timeframe"?

Durkon said they had been dead for a fortnight, apparently that's how long its been since Roy was resurrected.

[skaddix]

I agree. Familcide is an epic spell and Girard is an epic illusionist. A "worst nightmere" illusion is plausible.

True but Girard is an Epic Illusionist is he really strong enough to stand up to an Epic Necromancer who is the strongest Epic Spellcaster that the IFCC has even stronger then their other epics by a noticable amount. I don't think its a fake especially since this is not an attack u could see coming.

[One Skunk Todd]

Also, gotta love how Girard's wall-drawing has a halo around it. Glad to see he never turned himself into one of those authority figures he hates so much.

To be fair, we don't know that he created the family tree. And his ancestors are of less importance to the protection of the gate than Girard himself, hence the halo as indication of importance and possibly also that he's dead

[SavageWombat]

I like the "Worst Nightmare" spell. Must go directly to your subconscious mind, to something you never even considered. Someone write it up.

Anyway - remember that there are such things as permanent illusions, and we still haven't gotten to the gate. I'm still betting Roy blows it up to keep it from the evil sides, but I'm hoping there's a more interesting choice.

[Gift Jeraff]

Is this the first time we see Roy's sword/armour with actual sheathes (or whatever they'd be called)?

[LordVader]

Heh. Well played, Giant.

[R_G_R]

That's the most incredible twist I've seen so far. It was just... wow :smalleek:

[PhantomFox]

I gotta say I like this development, even if we saw it coming. Chalk it up as proper foreshadowing.

[Speedball]

Ah, V. You thought you could escape the consequences of your actions. That's TWO now. (First being the divorce). And he hasn't even revealed that evil fiends own a good hour's worth of his life and can take him over at any time of their choosing to the rest of the group.

If V doesn't swallow the remains of his pride RIGHT NOW and come clean it's going to haunt him even more down the line. I hope he does come clean, but if he doesn't that sets up a whole lot of more dramatic conflict for later.

[Conuly]

And thus we people can fully realize just why Familicide was an evil act.

We already should've realized it. What, it only becomes evil because it inconveniences the Order but makes life easier for Team Evil and the Linear Guild?

Also, everybody is missing out on the OTHER piece of information here: Two weeks have passed. (At least.) Belkar's death is approaching two weeks sooner than it was last time we had an exact date.

[skaddix]

Durkon can't Raise them because they were killed by a death effect, but what about his scroll of Resurrection? He's been "saving it for an emergency" if the IFCC is to be trusted, and this certainly qualifies.

Sure they use to Speak to Dead and bring back the strongest.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Wow... And Hailey? Girard Draketooth is NOT your father!
(Personal theory of mine, now thoroughly debunked)

[Laws of Chaos]

WOW! just wow. I need a minute to let that one sink in. I saw it coming, but I didnt think the Giant would go there. I mean I knew he could, but, and it wasnt out of the realm of possibilities, but WOW!

Awesome comic! WOW!

[Rorrik]

Also, is this the first time we've seen how Roy keeps his sword on his back? I had wondered. Simple that.

[JCarter426]

It'd have to have been the IFCC that did it, though - and, based on Penelope dying, they'd have to ACTUALLY do a Familicide - not the Draketooths themselves. They're the only ones who knew both that Vaarsuvius was going after Girard's Gate, and that V had used familicide.
We still don't know for sure how Penelope died. And I wouldn't put it past Girard to murder her just to keep up the illusion. Or abduct her and fake her death. Again, I think it's far fetched, but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility.

But it's also possible you're all just figments of my imagination. :smalltongue:

Also... this completely debunks anything making Haley related to the Draketooths, of course.
Well, no. Even if they were related, the connection might be so distant that they were spared. And again there's the illusion possibility.

I thought all of the discussion of Familicide actually made the reveal more exciting, rather than spoiling it.
I agree. As far fetched as I thought it was, the discussion did convince me beyond a reasonable doubt that it was possible, and would be an interesting scenario.

I'll be honest, I thought the Familicide theory was too easy to deduce.
I've recently learned not to dismiss something just because it's too easy to deduce, especially when the general audience isn't going to deduce it. However, I didn't think familicide was too easy to deduce. It wasn't my first thought, certainly.

[SavageWombat]

Sure they use to Speak to Dead and bring back the strongest.

And they even have a chart to help them find the strongest. Possible.

Anyone else notice that Roy doesn't seem phased by finding them all dead? Haley and Elan are visibly shocked. Roy seems expressionless. Except at Belkar.

[Duos Greanleef]

First and foremostly, I bow to your skills as a storyteller far outweigh any skill I could potentially possess in my lifetime.

And to all of the Familicide-is-evil people, i disagree. Any action can be used for good or evil. Just because it had a direct negative impact on the status of the safety of the world, doesn't make it an evil action. It just makes it a bump (erm... mountain?) in the story.

[Aerysil]

Yep, Familicide. Good call.

[One Skunk Todd]

Here's what I can make out. It's blurry on my screen too.

GINA MIRAGE ARCANA
ORRIN PHANTASMAGORIA
SAMU SCREEN
KANTA SHIFTING PATHS
VENNA SHIFTING PATHS
TIRAN SR. ILLUSORY PIT
TIRAN JR. MISDITECTION
DYLAN FALSE VISION
LIANA WALL OF GLOOM

Days of the week, monday to sunday, are across the top.

Thank you. :)

[rgrekejin]

Dunh Dunh DUNNNNNH!

So, I guess the main question now is: Was Girard still alive at the time familicide was cast? If he was, did he manage to resist it somehow, or is he dead as well? It seems unlikely that he is still alive, or else he wouldn't have allowed the gate's defenses to run down, but perhaps a further twist awaits us.

...also, why does that pedigree only show a pairing for the first two? From this, we can either deduce that the Draketooths either reproduce by parthenogenesis... or that they just aren't big on monogamy, and the tree would have been too crowded (probably that second one...)

Lastly, what does this mean for Tarquin's wife? Does familicide kill parents who breed in to the bloodline? I suppose it would make sense, but I hadn't been expecting it. Eh, we shall see.

[Shale]

Dude, what makes it an evil action is that it killed dozens, maybe hundreds, maybe even thousands (given the draconic predilection for interbreeding) of living beings who did nothing to deserve it.

[skaddix]

First and foremostly, I bow to your skills as a storyteller far outweigh any skill I could potentially possess in my lifetime.

And to all of the Familicide-is-evil people, i disagree. Any action can be used for good or evil. Just because it had a direct negative impact on the status of the safety of the world, doesn't make it an evil action. It just makes it a bump (erm... mountain?) in the story.

I don't see how it could be used for good. Unless there is a control method so that u can do a mode so it targets all the people who are in a family that correspond to a certain alignment then it always evil. It simply kills the whole family does not matter if they are good or evil or young and old. All Die.

[Anarion]

I want to draw your attention to the family tree. Look at Girard on there. Notice the halo-like thing. Odds of the Draketooth clan revering Girard as a deity of sorts? I think so.

Not a deity, I think. He's still drawn in the same size and style as all his generation. Probably something like the family patriarch and perhaps the halo is indicative of him becoming an epic level character.



This was a powerful comic. I had read the forum speculation about it being familicide, but I don't think that detracted from this at all. The way V discovered it and the look of absolute shock were powerful and the gruesomeness of the scene as well. I'm continually impressed by the ability of this art style to convey emotions.

Now, forgive my tiny tiny nitpick. However, none of the lines from familicide actually ended on the Western Continent. See? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html)

[jmucchiello]

Who the heck is Penelope?

[SaintRidley]

First and foremostly, I bow to your skills as a storyteller far outweigh any skill I could potentially possess in my lifetime.

And to all of the Familicide-is-evil people, i disagree. Any action can be used for good or evil. Just because it had a direct negative impact on the status of the safety of the world, doesn't make it an evil action. It just makes it a bump (erm... mountain?) in the story.

Familicide is functionally identical to comitting genocide in six seconds.

It's evil. Straight up.



Who the heck is Penelope?

Orrin Draketooth's baby mama and Tarquin's latest ex-wife.

[ThreeEyedOni]

I agree. Familcide is an epic spell and Girard is an epic illusionist. A "worst nightmere" illusion is plausible.

Epic Spell, "Your Worst Nightmare" was actually one of my thoughts here. Assuming that Girard was still alive up until recently, I wouldn't put it past him to say "fark it" and zap anyone entering his territory with a world-shattering delusion spell. If the person is a good guy, then you snap them out of it and leave them with a "what a nightmare" morning. If they're baddies... well, problem solved.

[jedipilot24]

wow, nice job breaking it V!

[snikrept]

Yes, the halo around Girard's pictoglyph suggests weak evidence that his tirade in the desert about authority, hierarchy and religion was a bunch of falsehoods.

It would sync nicely with the fact that he accompanied the tirade with a really wimpy booby trap that would not have scratched a high level Paladin. I still think he wasn't trying to kill Soon, just make people think he was trying to do so. Lying about his motivations would be part of the package.

[t209]

Who the heck is Penelope?
Wife of Orrin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0816.html) Draketooth. Mother of (Now Beef Jerkey) Orrin's daughter.
P.S- This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYWV1-AwYOY) cheer us up.

wow, nice job breaking it V!
Hey I started saying this
Here! (by me)

V RUINED EVERYTHING!!!
DRAKETOOTHS ARE DEAD SINCE THEIR ANCESTORS INCLUDE DRAGONBORNS (NOT SKYRIM Version)
Nice job V, Nice job ruining the world.

[Gift Jeraff]

I thought the halo was similar to sainthood and likely indicated death (or some form of stasis like the statue idea).
It doesn't really matter of course, since strip titles are just passing jokes that don't even get into print.Actually, they're on the bottom of every page in the print compilations (which works better, IMHO). Most of the bonus strips get titles as well.

[T.G. Oskar]

Had it not been because of the "six-nine years in the making" think, this would have been an epic Brick Joke.

Now, is it bad if I believe in a counter-twist to the twist? I dunno, if Girard's an epic illusionist, he wouldn't suffice with mere illusions. 110% real shadow illusions, maybe?

Also, this should definitely debunk any idea that Haley is a descendant of the Draketooths, even if it was thoroughly debunked pages ago by meeting her parents (both Ian and her mother in flashbacks).

I want to see the reaction of the Linear Guild, though. Perhaps Elan will use this as a weapon against his father, saying "you can be the most magnificent evil-doer ever, but you're no genocidal maniac!" That is, if V decides to spill the beans. It would be a tender moment of bonding between Elan and V, tho, which would set up a even more surprising brick joke which I won't tell. And I should really cut on the Troping. This post was almost 30% full of tropes.

[Incom]

So moving forward.

Belkar is now in a different room than the rest of the Order, with V probably about to launch into a long monologue and with both Team Evil and LinearGuild!Tarquin scheduled to show up on the doorstep at any time now.

Belkar will die within the next ten or so strips.

Also, it's been said, but while I'm on a prediction kick, Girard survived Familicide via a contingency flesh-to-stone and is the statue we saw in the last strip.

[ericgrau]

Well played, sir.

And I played Phantasmagoria all the way through to the end. Slick reference. I wish Roberta Williams would make some more games now that the multimedia fad is done harming what she worked on.

[One Skunk Todd]

Now, forgive my tiny tiny nitpick. However, none of the lines from familicide actually ended on the Western Continent. See? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html)

In some of the other threads people were suggesting that any place the line changes direction indicates a kill or kills before continuing on.

And I just noticed the only place it specifically stops is when it hits the eggs, presumably because they have no descendants to continue towards.

[Giddon]

Hundreds of strips later, when we come back to this one, V's face will be forever immortalized in one of the most profoundly shocking revelations of the strip. Its amazing how many of us were able to predict it just its completely shocking, and I couldn't help but think "...just hit the fan", even though this was predictable, it was masterfully delivered.

[snikrept]

Also, what does Phantasmagoria do? I'm not familiar with that one

[Kikon9]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

If I'm remembering how familicide works, then wouldn't Girard's children still be alive?
Maybe I'm going off the wrong definition of blood relation here, but V said:
"Every living creature that directly shares your bloodline is dead. Every living creature directly related to any of those creatures is also dead"

If it only goes two generations in, then Girrard's son should still be alive, as should any other kids they've had.

But, if everything I just said is wrong, then I'll just say that this is an awesome comic regardless :smallbiggrin:

[Pterocards]

-1 coolness point to Roy for discouraging entomology. :smallyuk:

*high fives*

I was so very pleased with the entomology.

Poor Draketooths.....I wonder how the group will react. Will V tell? Only time will tell...

[ericgrau]

Also, what does Phantasmagoria do? I'm not familiar with that one

See my post 7 posts back.

[nonamearisto]

Yes, the halo around Girard's pictoglyph suggests weak evidence that his tirade in the desert about authority, hierarchy and religion was a bunch of falsehoods.

It would sync nicely with the fact that he accompanied the tirade with a really wimpy booby trap that would not have scratched a high level Paladin. I still think he wasn't trying to kill Soon, just make people think he was trying to do so. Lying about his motivations would be part of the package.

The halo could have been put there by his family members, who don't necessarily agree with his views on authority, hierarchy, and religion. Also, the halo might have been there more for the benefit of the readers than for anyone else.

I'm only surprised that he didn't have any visible black dragon features, given that his grandfather was a black dragon; that's not very far back up the family tree. Makes me wonder if his grandmother knew that she was breeding with a dragon at the time, or if it was willing on her part. Black Dragons are listed as evil in the Monster Manual, after all.

[WistfulWanderer]

Nice job breaking it, V. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero)

[CowardlyPaladin]

I was really touched by how upset this made Roy, who is normally very composed towards death, he got so upset at Belkar for almost making a joke.

[ellindsey]

Now that we have confirmation that Roy was resurrected on a Thursday, I have revised my timeline.

Familicide Timeline:

We know from the chart and speech in strip 842 that Roy was resurrected on a Thursday.

While Roy is being ressurected, V casts Familicide in strip 639. In the Windy Canyon, the entire Draketooth clan is wiped out during lunch. Penelope also dies mysteriously in the Empire of Blood.

On that same day, V transports the entire Azure City refugee fleet to an island located "a few dozen kilometers from the Western Continent" in strip 643. V then goes on to attack Xykon, rescue O'chul, etc.

The next morning (Friday), the Order of the Strip leaves for Sandsedge on "Hinjo's fastest ship". This is one day after Familicide.

In strip 678, the Order is in Sandsedge. Blackwing states "You were only back home two days ago", placing this at Saturday. It would appear that the trip from the island where the refugee fleet was teleported to Sandsedge only took about a day.

Strip 682 is still Saturday evening (no reason to assume more than a day has passed since 678). Roy states “We'll travel north … for the first few few days” to the oasis. From this we assume he means all of Sunday and Monday will be spent traveling.

At strip 687, the Order is at the oasis, on Monday evening. The slaver attack (strips 683-686) probably took place on Monday, four days after Familicide, since when the Order is rewarded at the oasis Belkar is still sunburned, and it seems unlikely that the traders would wait a day before rewarding them for the rescue.

Strip 688 begins Tuesday, five days after Familicide, and the Order has split off from the caravan. Due to the sandworm ride, it only takes "a few hours" (per strip 690) to get to the false gate location.

In strip 692, a search montage takes place. It is not clear if this is literal, or a comedic musical montage via Summon Exposition. The Giant states that there was “a week spent searching the desert”, but it is not clear if this included the travel time to and from the false location. If we assume a full five days is spent here, the day of the week does not match up in later strips. We assume instead that one day is spent, and strip 692 is showing what happened Tuesday evening and night.

Girard's triggered illusion takes place on Wednesday, 6 days after Familicide. The order then takes the rest of that evening searching (strip 697). In the evening of that day (strip 698), someone scries on the location. The color of the scrying spell is green, which matches the color of magic cast by Zz'drti.

In strip 698, it is stated that the "nearest edge of the desert is only four days". The Order begins this trip on the Wednesday evening. We assume they spend all day Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday traveling.

In strip 702, Redcloak states that it has "Been a hard week” which included “terrorist attack by elven insurgents". This implies less than a week has taken place since Familicide was spent. Note that we do not know exactly when this scene is taking place relative to the scenes in the desert.

In strip 710, the Order is in a city on the edge of the desert. If we assume the 4 day travel estimate was correct, and that it is now the next morning, then it is Monday morning, 11 days after Familicide was cast.

In strip 727, Tarquin states that "Penelope recently passed away” and that they had a “funeral for her last week". Penelope died Thursday, eleven days previous. “Last week” implies the funeral was last Monday at the earliest, which would be four days after Penelope died.

Tarquin then promises "Three days and nights of merriment". We assume that Monday is the first night of this.

In strip 731, the bounty hunter says that they brought three others to the palace that morning, confirming it is still the same day. In strip 735, it is stated to be only two hours since the three fugitives were dropped off.

In 739, it is stated that the feast will be tonight (Monday), and the parade will be tomorrow at dusk (Tuesday).

In 741, V finished trancing and casts Sending. This is still Monday, eleven days after Familicide. A poster shows that there will be a special mid-week event (presumably Wednesday)

Strip 748 begins the next day (Tuesday, ten days after Familicide). It is stated that the games will be 'tomorrow', which is Wednesday.

Strip 750: The Order spends a full day in the Empire of Blood. This is Tuesday.

Strip 754 begins the parade sequence, on Tuesday night. This is the second evening of Taquin's three days and nights.

Strip 775 begins Wednesday, thirteen days after Familicide. This is the day of the promised bloody gladiatorial games. On this day the Linear Guild attacks.

In strip 801, Nale says "Last week you're hundreds of miles away in the middle of the desert". This is further evidence that it was Zz'drti that scried on the Order after the explosion at the false location, which was the previous week's Wednesday.

In strip 815, Elan says "we still owe you one more night", confirming that two nights have been spent in the Empire of Blood so far.

In strip 816, Tarquin says that Penelope got a tip about the location of Orrin "A few weeks ago”, implying that she was alive 21 days at the latest, then "unexpectedly passed".

The magic carpet that he gives them in strip 817 will "Get you to Windy Canyon in two days", which would be on Friday.

In strip 821, we learn that Penelope was killed the day after getting the Windy Canyon tip. That would mean she got the tip on Wednesday, two weeks previous.

In strip 833, Xykon says "Where do you think I've been these past few weeks", which would imply that this takes place at least 14 days after the Familicide spell, which is consistent with the timeline.

In strip 834, the Order has arrived at the Windy Canyon. It is Friday, fifteen days after Familicide was cast.

In Strip 835, we have confirmation that it has been two days since the Linear Guild attacked, which makes this fifteen days after the Familicide spell. We also learn that it will take a day for Durkon and company to reach the Windy Canyon.

In Strip 836, the Order is reunited. If the travel estimate in 835 is correct, it is Saturday, sixteen days after Familicide. (It might also be later the same day – it's hard to tell – but it does seem likely that they enter the Canyon at least a day after strip 834)

On examining the bodies in strip 842, Durkon states that the Draketooth clan have been dead at least 2 weeks. This is consistent with Familicide being 16 days previous.

[Niesra]

So, here's the thing (and I could be completely off), I have a hard time believing it's impossible to survive the familicide spell. There must have been black dragons who did survive it, and specially the relatives of the relatives, since I would assume the spell's power waned the more far-fetched the relation. Of course, anyone low to mid level could not withstand it, given V's level at the time. But there must have been high-enough level people that were not as closely related to the black dragon that had a chance to survive it. No spell can be 100% effective in every situation, right?

If this is true, then the decoy/trap theory could still have a chance. If only those of highest level survived, which I reckoned were only a few, they would have figured someone planned this attack on them to go after the gate. They would not have known about who cast familicide and why, correct? Their plan would be to let whoever did it think it was 100% effective and then fall back to let them fall into a trap.

And, to be honest, for all the forum theories about familicide being the only thing that made sense, the plot twist was still... unbelievable.

[SavageWombat]

Thanks, Ellindsey.

Who gets credit for spotting the family tree in 841?

[ti'esar]

Moving away from what's got to be the 5000th morality debate on here... I'd like to take a moment to congratulate Rich once again on his skill at making stick figures emote. Durkon's sorrowful look in panel 3, Elan at the beginning, and, of course, the close-up on V's dawning horror - simply superb.

[psijac]

An awesome reveal

[Kaulguard]

I'll be honest, I thought the Familicide theory was too easy to deduce. In my arrogance I didn't consider that just because a plot twist was easy to see coming does not mean its reprecautions can not be dramatic and unexpected.

Nope. Sorry, but you are too close to it. In addition, you have days of discussion dissecting every line and phrase and background graphic to work with. The guy reading the book has the micro second it takes him to flick his eyes up to the top of the next page, and he's gonna poop his pants at the reveal. Maybe holler 'Holy S***' and get called down by his ma, like the poster on page 2. For sure.

A very strong twist, Giant, well played. One thing I love about the strip is how Rich is able to maintain the tension in his writing over such a long production period. Admirable.

The best thing, though is how much it has evolved like an actual campaign. The joke-a-day period was great, but much like early sessions of PnP had little direction. Entertaining, but no real scope. And, just like in tabletop play, you can tell the moment that the DM catches hold of a story to tell. Right now we are in the middle of a roll. That's the best part of a campaign, when the guy has all the threads in his hands, and has firm in his mind how to tie them all together. There is a certain fire that you recognize. It feels so much like a game, I almost wonder if he is playing it out with a group.

Right this moment in the story, I imagine a challenging smile, a cocked eyebrow- a DM leaning back in his chair, aware of the stunned silence around the table, but eyes locked on the player of the elven wizard. Looong pause, then:

"So... what do you do?"

[MoonCat]

So I have always made a point of not telling my family what goes on in OoTS in the small hope that they'll read it some day and shouldn't spoiler, but that ALL went out the window. I had to explain to them why I was shouting OH MY GOD tens of times over and over, so both my parents just got an info dump that stretched all the way back to the very existence of the Snarl.

Eh, I'm sure they'll forget by the time they ever get around to reading OoTS.

[Agnostik]

Yes, the halo around Girard's pictoglyph suggests weak evidence that his tirade in the desert about authority, hierarchy and religion was a bunch of falsehoods.

It would sync nicely with the fact that he accompanied the tirade with a really wimpy booby trap that would not have scratched a high level Paladin. I still think he wasn't trying to kill Soon, just make people think he was trying to do so. Lying about his motivations would be part of the package.
This is not necessarily true.

First off, we don't know if these inscriptions were made in Girard's time or after his passing. If it's the latter, it's more than plausible that his descendants who made the inscriptions held him in highest regard (he built their ancestral home and basically was the patriarch of this Draketooth line).

Another possibility is that, well, people change. Girard himself might have let his perceived importance get into his head. We don't know when the message was recorded, it could be before the delusions of grandeur crept in.

People seem to forget that it's unlikely that Girard even was still alive when V familicide'd his whole clan. Unless Girard was a lot younger than Soon, he most definitely was already long dead by then.

[ThreeEyedOni]

I'm only surprised that he didn't have any visible black dragon features, given that his grandfather was a black dragon.

Well... that might have been part of why he went into illusion?

[HalfTangible]

Who the heck is Penelope?

Tarquin's most recently deceased wife.

Which brings up a question: Can Familicided people be resurrected? Obviously ya can't resurrect them all, but given Tarquin's resources NOT resurrecting her doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

And something i thought could be inferred from V's dialogue before: how far into the family tree does Familicide go? When I first read it, it made it sound like it went two levels in every direction on the tree. So your grandparents(-2), parents(-1), siblings(0), children(1) and grandchildren(2) would all die, as well as anything two levels from THEM (great grandparents, great great grandparents, aunts/unc- you get the idea) but not two from that second group, because then you're getting ridiculous numbers of greats, and more importantly if it kept going into infinity it would wipe out entire species and thus the family distinction would be pointless.

That would mean that it's possible that the entire family tree we see there is dead, but if Girard is distantly related to the ancient dragon V cast the spell on (if the dragon was one level down or up from the ancient dragon it would work), it's also possible that the lowest level on the tree survived the spell. This would also fit with why the spells they've encountered so far have been largely low-level or long-lasting - because the wizards standing guard over the gate (assuming they're still there) are low level.

This all speculation based largely on the name of the spell and some dialogue, of course, it could easily be wrong.

[Skeppio]

It's about time something finally came back to bite V in the ass. Here's hoping it only gets worse for him/her/whatever from here. :smallamused:

[Goosefeather]

Also, it's been said, but while I'm on a prediction kick, Girard survived Familicide via a contingency flesh-to-stone and is the statue we saw in the last strip.

To expand on this, I think he might have turned himself to stone a while before. The family consider him as dead, hence the halo in the picture, and the trigger for his return will be to do with non-family members near the gates, maybe similar to the trigger for his desert illusion.

I mean, we still have to explore his paranoia and his history with Soon!

Looking forward to some juicy V character development around now as well :smallsmile:

[TheBossBoy]

...Oh dear.

Actually, my initial comment was "WOOPWOOPWOOP! I (and everyone else who suspected that) WAS RIGHT! HOT DANG!!!!!

[Caivs]

Ahhh at last, I was eager to see what would follow, great work Rich

Not that it was really surprising with the pile of evidence/hints there was, but still, it was a great idea to bring back familicide here. Amazing storytelling as always...

[SavageWombat]

I can't find "Phantasmagoria" immediately. Anyone know if it's a published spell?

[Porthos]

Late to the party, but:

Aw, crap.

[Seerow]

Now that we have confirmation that Roy was resurrected on a Thursday, I have revised my timeline.

Familicide Timeline:

We know from the chart and speech in strip 842 that Roy was resurrected on a Thursday.

While Roy is being ressurected, V casts Familicide in strip 639. In the Windy Canyon, the entire Draketooth clan is wiped out during lunch. Penelope also dies mysteriously in the Empire of Blood.

On that same day, V transports the entire Azure City refugee fleet to an island located "a few dozen kilometers from the Western Continent" in strip 643. V then goes on to attack Xykon, rescue O'chul, etc.

The next morning (Friday), the Order of the Strip leaves for Sandsedge on "Hinjo's fastest ship". This is one day after Familicide.

In strip 678, the Order is in Sandsedge. Blackwing states "You were only back home two days ago", placing this at Saturday. It would appear that the trip from the island where the refugee fleet was teleported to Sandsedge only took about a day.

Strip 682 is still Saturday evening (no reason to assume more than a day has passed since 678). Roy states “We'll travel north … for the first few few days” to the oasis. From this we assume he means all of Sunday and Monday will be spent traveling.

At strip 687, the Order is at the oasis, on Monday evening. The slaver attack (strips 683-686) probably took place on Monday, four days after Familicide, since when the Order is rewarded at the oasis Belkar is still sunburned, and it seems unlikely that the traders would wait a day before rewarding them for the rescue.

Strip 688 begins Tuesday, five days after Familicide, and the Order has split off from the caravan. Due to the sandworm ride, it only takes "a few hours" (per strip 690) to get to the false gate location.

In strip 692, a search montage takes place. It is not clear if this is literal, or a comedic musical montage via Summon Exposition. The Giant states that there was “a week spent searching the desert”, but it is not clear if this included the travel time to and from the false location. If we assume a full five days is spent here, the day of the week does not match up in later strips. We assume instead that one day is spent, and strip 692 is showing what happened Tuesday evening and night.

Girard's triggered illusion takes place on Wednesday, 6 days after Familicide. The order then takes the rest of that evening searching (strip 697). In the evening of that day (strip 698), someone scries on the location. The color of the scrying spell is green, which matches the color of magic cast by Zz'drti.

In strip 698, it is stated that the "nearest edge of the desert is only four days". The Order begins this trip on the Wednesday evening. We assume they spend all day Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday traveling.

In strip 702, Redcloak states that it has "Been a hard week” which included “terrorist attack by elven insurgents". This implies less than a week has taken place since Familicide was spent. Note that we do not know exactly when this scene is taking place relative to the scenes in the desert.

In strip 710, the Order is in a city on the edge of the desert. If we assume the 4 day travel estimate was correct, and that it is now the next morning, then it is Monday morning, 11 days after Familicide was cast.

In strip 727, Tarquin states that "Penelope recently passed away” and that they had a “funeral for her last week". Penelope died Thursday, eleven days previous. “Last week” implies the funeral was last Monday at the earliest, which would be four days after Penelope died.

Tarquin then promises "Three days and nights of merriment". We assume that Monday is the first night of this.

In strip 731, the bounty hunter says that they brought three others to the palace that morning, confirming it is still the same day. In strip 735, it is stated to be only two hours since the three fugitives were dropped off.

In 739, it is stated that the feast will be tonight (Monday), and the parade will be tomorrow at dusk (Tuesday).

In 741, V finished trancing and casts Sending. This is still Monday, eleven days after Familicide. A poster shows that there will be a special mid-week event (presumably Wednesday)

Strip 748 begins the next day (Tuesday, ten days after Familicide). It is stated that the games will be 'tomorrow', which is Wednesday.

Strip 750: The Order spends a full day in the Empire of Blood. This is Tuesday.

Strip 754 begins the parade sequence, on Tuesday night. This is the second evening of Taquin's three days and nights.

Strip 775 begins Wednesday, thirteen days after Familicide. This is the day of the promised bloody gladiatorial games. On this day the Linear Guild attacks.

In strip 801, Nale says "Last week you're hundreds of miles away in the middle of the desert". This is further evidence that it was Zz'drti that scried on the Order after the explosion at the false location, which was the previous week's Wednesday.

In strip 815, Elan says "we still owe you one more night", confirming that two nights have been spent in the Empire of Blood so far.

In strip 816, Tarquin says that Penelope got a tip about the location of Orrin "A few weeks ago”, implying that she was alive 21 days at the latest, then "unexpectedly passed".

The magic carpet that he gives them in strip 817 will "Get you to Windy Canyon in two days", which would be on Friday.

In strip 821, we learn that Penelope was killed the day after getting the Windy Canyon tip. That would mean she got the tip on Wednesday, two weeks previous.

In strip 833, Xykon says "Where do you think I've been these past few weeks", which would imply that this takes place at least 14 days after the Familicide spell, which is consistent with the timeline.

In strip 834, the Order has arrived at the Windy Canyon. It is Friday, fifteen days after Familicide was cast.

In Strip 835, we have confirmation that it has been two days since the Linear Guild attacked, which makes this fifteen days after the Familicide spell. We also learn that it will take a day for Durkon and company to reach the Windy Canyon.

In Strip 836, the Order is reunited. If the travel estimate in 835 is correct, it is Saturday, sixteen days after Familicide. (It might also be later the same day – it's hard to tell – but it does seem likely that they enter the Canyon at least a day after strip 834)

On examining the bodies in strip 842, Durkon states that the Draketooth clan have been dead at least 2 weeks. This is consistent with Familicide being 16 days previous.

An impressive analysis. A lot of those trips that apparently had things specifically saying it was only a day or two I had pegged at taking almost a week, which explains my misconception.


Also quoted the whole thing rather than snipping because that post deserves more exposure than it's likely to get 5 pages into the thread.

[Othniel Edden]

Hmmm, This means Belkar has about 5 more weeks left to live, tops, that is unless there is shenanigans. Maybe something including V's repentance...

[M.A.D]

And to all of the Familicide-is-evil people, i disagree. Any action can be used for good or evil. Just because it had a direct negative impact on the status of the safety of the world, doesn't make it an evil action. It just makes it a bump (erm... mountain?) in the story.

Familicide is a genocidal magic. Nothing good can come of it

[DougTheHead]

I just realized...

This probably means that neither Tarquin nor Nale killed Tarquin's most recent ex-wife. After all, what's the use of a Familicide spell that doesn't kill spouses?

EDIT: Woops, guess I wasn't the first one to point this out. I guess it IS pretty obvs.

[Jahkaivah]

Moral of the story: Don't sleep with dragons.

[Kumon]

Nice job breaking it, V (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero)

[Rowsen]

Poor V? Poor...V?

Cool, cast a family tree killing spell out of spite with full control over yourself at the time and with no thought to the repurcussions and suddenly now that there's consequences V's a victim?

Yeah no, welcome to the Evil alignment buddy, it's like you never left.

[Shale]

It wouldn't kill spouses directly, but it would kill all the relatives of every member of the Draketooth bloodline. So it got Girard, it got Orrin, it got Orrin's daughter, and then, by virtue of the "everyone related to anyone who shares your bloodline" clause, the daughter's mother - Penelope.

[MoonCat]

I just realized...

This probably means that neither Tarquin nor Nale killed Tarquin's most recent ex-wife. After all, what's the use of a Familicide spell that doesn't kill spouses?

Already both Tarquin and Nale denied killing her. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html)

Also, who was it who first came up with the Familicide theory? It seems to have stretched even before the last comic, since the first post mentioning it was asking about whether it was maybe true.

[thubby]

oh hell.

i don't even know what more can be said. V... just... wow. :smalleek:

[SGNenets]

I must say, I was one of the skeptics of the Familicide idea.

Time to eat my words.

[Petey7]

I can't find "Phantasmagoria" immediately. Anyone know if it's a published spell?

I've never heard of it before now and I'm familiar with A LOT of spells. I'm guessing it's a spell the Rich created based on this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasmagoria).

[t209]

wow, nice job breaking it V!


Moral of the story: Don't sleep with dragons.
Especially the dark ones!
P.S- I was hoping a dead girl will get up say "BOO!"
P.P.S- Time Travel Anyone? (Stop V from using familicide, prevent the death of Resistance.)

[Flame of Anor]

Holy **** Giant

That's pretty much the only valid response here.

:sigh:

Damn it, Vaarsuvius, you stupid, arrogant bastard.

What a completely believable character, though. Mad props to the Giant.

[Subbo]

Congrats to everyone who called it correctly!

We've got a whole new bundle of questions now. How will V react? How does the Order react if he/she tells them? When are the Linear Guild and Xykon showing up? And did any Draketooth survive the Familicide? Is the spell so powerful Girard's epic levels didn't even matter?

This is going to be really rough if it's just the OOTS vs. all the forces of evil chasing the gate. Not to mention that if its the LG they face off against the fiends can cash in on V's soul splice and win the battle very quickly.

[Madara]

Proud moment for all of us, as things get shaken up. Also, it really paints epic magic as..EPIC :smallbiggrin:

[One Skunk Todd]

Which brings up a question: Can Familicided people be resurrected?

More importantly, would any of the Draketooths WANT to be ressurrected? I mean pretty much everyone they knew or cared about is there with them. Why would they leave when some complete stranger called? Except maybe Penelope... Do we know if Tarquin tried to raise her?

[Leliel]

Poor V? Poor...V?

Cool, cast a family tree killing spell out of spite with full control over yourself at the time and with no thought to the repurcussions and suddenly now that there's consequences V's a victim?

Yeah no, welcome to the Evil alignment buddy, it's like you never left.

No, it's because all of that...

...and because V is horrified.

I personally think zhe's at the E end of the alignment scale, but with what Dicefreaks would call Neutral tendencies. There's still something in there that wants to be truly Good, instead of what V thinks is Good, and this may be the catalyst that forces zhe to examine who zhe truly is as a person.

[Crisis21]

Tarquin's most recently deceased wife.

Which brings up a question: Can Familicided people be resurrected? Obviously ya can't resurrect them all, but given Tarquin's resources NOT resurrecting her doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


You assume that Tarquin loved her enough to spend the resources necessary to raise her. Considering that he's gone through eight wives and no divorces since leaving Elan's mom, I doubt he's the kind of guy to do that.

[Douglas]

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

If I'm remembering how familicide works, then wouldn't Girard's children still be alive?
Maybe I'm going off the wrong definition of blood relation here, but V said:
"Every living creature that directly shares your bloodline is dead. Every living creature directly related to any of those creatures is also dead"

If it only goes two generations in, then Girrard's son should still be alive, as should any other kids they've had.

But, if everything I just said is wrong, then I'll just say that this is an awesome comic regardless :smallbiggrin:
"Shares your bloodline" is not the same as "one generation away from you."

"Shares your bloodline" means "is a genetic descendant or ancestor of you." Under more liberal interpretations, siblings of you and your ancestors may also be included. Number of generations is irrelevant. Just the first part of Familicide, "shares your bloodline", would kill your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great-grandparents, etc., children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, great-great-grandchildren, and so on. Adding the second part, killing everyone who "shares the bloodline" of any one of those people, could reasonably be interpreted in the real world to have the spell wipe out literally every living creature on Earth - go back far enough and you'll get to the (whatever belief system you have) equivalent of biblical Adam and, since that's in the first "shares your bloodline" clause, the spell's second step would then leap from him to everyone.

Familicide obviously doesn't go quite that far, so this raises the question of just what the limit really is. My guess is that the second step only follows the bloodlines of victims who were still alive to be killed by the first step. That, or it has a generation limit, probably in the four to ten range.

[Calanon]

Holy crap...completely threw me for a loop :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/259/927/ebb.gif

EDIT: OH LAWD! DOES THIS MEAN THAT EVERYONE AND THERE GRANDPA IS GONNA BE AFTER GIRARD'S GATE!? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

[Porthos]

Still working my way through the thread, but I can't help but notice a distinct lack of the name "Girard" on the spell chart.

Though, I suppose, he might be left off of it coz he has other things to do. Or is at the bottom of it for some reason...

[Ravian]

I noticed something, the schedule says illusions (canyon), this could mean that the actual pyramid is still defended, most likely with epic permanent illusions. I find it likely that if Durkon has a scroll of resurrection like the IFCC said he should find Orrin, or his daughter and get them up. They need someone here that knows the place if they want a chance at keeping this gate.

[Fish]

I cannot comprehend the comments in the thread that say "Boring. Obvious. Saw it coming."

Like the Hindenberg, you did.

It's easy to mine the archives for an explanation after you know what the disaster looks like ("the Hindenberg was flammable, I totally called it").

If you predicted that Familicide killed the Draketooth clan before comic #841, then you saw it coming. If you predicted it before comic #816 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0816.html) then you saw it coming. If you saw it coming prior to comic #693 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html) then you're a genius. It's theoretically possible to have foreseen it as early as comic #640 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html), where Vaarsuvius explains the spell Familicide, but I doubt anybody did. All the forum's heavy lifting as we tested the Familicide theory came after we saw the Draketooth clan stacked like cordwood, not before.

Well played, Giant. I can honestly say that nobody saw that coming.

[ThreeEyedOni]

"Shares your bloodline" is not the same as "one generation away from you."

Exactly. The spell is Familicide, not Immediate Familicide.


"Shares your bloodline" means "is a genetic descendant or ancestor of you." Number of generations is irrelevant. Just the first part of Familicide, "shares your bloodline", would kill your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, great-great-grandparents, etc., children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, great-great-grandchildren, and so on. Adding the second part, killing everyone who "shares the bloodline" of any one of those people, could reasonably be interpreted in the real world to have the spell wipe out literally every living creature on Earth - go back far enough and you'll get to the (whatever belief system you have) equivalent of biblical Adam and, since that's in the first "shares your bloodline" clause, the spell's second step would then leap from him to everyone.

Familicide obviously doesn't go quite that far, so this raises the question of just what the limit really is. My guess is that the second step only follows the bloodlines of victims who were still alive to be killed by the first step. That, or it has a generation limit, probably in the four to ten range.

My guess? Familicide takes subject A, the origin point for the bloodline. It targets that individual, develops an image of it's family tree, and then sets the whole damn thing on fire. Direct descendents and blood relations are obviously all dead, and past that I would say that it stops when the individuals are no longer related tot he primary bloodline. Would that kill the parent of a bloodline member? Possibly, possibly not. We don't really have enough evidence to be sure.. yet.

[rbetieh]

More importantly, would any of the Draketooths WANT to be ressurrected? I mean pretty much everyone they knew or cared about is there with them. Why would they leave when some complete stranger called? Except maybe Penelope... Do we know if Tarquin tried to raise her?

Well if, the entire clan is in the same afterlife, then it stands to reason that they are with Mama black, who has told them why they are all dead. A few might want to come back for nefarious purposes......

What is funnier to think of is the entire clan finding the entire Sapphire Guard and Soon standing there. Good ol afterlife brawl....

[B. Dandelion]

I cannot comprehend the comments in the thread that say "Boring. Obvious. Saw it coming."

Are we in the same thread? I have seen I think one person express unhappiness.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The Order is never going to forgive V for this, I doubt V will ever forgive hirself for this, and frankly they shouldn't.

Hell, they should twist the knife a bit more. You know how sometimes you beg someone to punish you, because anything's better than the guilt and anger you feel towards yourself? That you know you deserve and that somehow makes it worse?

I have the feeling that's what's going to happen. V's going to, along with whatever happens, beg for the order to kill hir, torture hir, hurt hir somehow because nothing could be as bad as the pain s/he's feeling. And they won't.

But I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen next, except that it's going to be good.

[SaintRidley]

Still working my way through the thread, but I can't help but notice a distinct lack of the name "Girard" on the spell chart.

Though, I suppose, he might be left off of it coz he has other things to do. Or is at the bottom of it for some reason...

He's either dead or not an active part of maintaining the defenses. If the latter, the statue = Girard theory becomes quite reasonable.

[Chess Tyrant]

48 pages of speculation and nobody noticed that there was a family tree on the wall... :smallsigh:

[jere7my]

Thanks, Ellindsey.

Who gets credit for spotting the family tree in 841?

I believe I was the first to say on the forums that the wall carvings were dragons.


1) Take a look at the carvings on the walls, particularly in panel 4 and above Elan's dialogue bubble in the last panel. Pretty draconic, no?

But someone else made the jump to family trees.

[Shadowknight13]

A random question out of the blue: if a male dragon mates with a human female resulting in a half-dragon...does she give birth to eggs or humanoids with draconic traits directly?

[One Skunk Todd]

Well if, the entire clan is in the same afterlife, then it stands to reason that they are with Mama black, who has told them why they are all dead. A few might want to come back for nefarious purposes......

What is funnier to think of is the entire clan finding the entire Sapphire Guard and Soon standing there. Good ol afterlife brawl....

I don't know the D and D afterlives very well. Would the Draketooths likely end up in the same place as a black dragon? Or with the Sapphire Guard?

[ti'esar]

You know, it's taken a few minutes for it to sink in, but never have I so wished I wasn't right about a theory. This is bad. This is really, really bad.

If this doesn't make V come clean, it's hard to guess what will - but at the same time, it's also hard to guess just how badly the rest of the Order will take it. Roy's got every reason (at least after the upcoming battle is over) to kick her off the team entirely.

[1dominator]

Good shot V! To all the people brining genetics into this, keep in mind that genetic divides between lines are not at all well drawn and all humans (all mammals) share the vast majority (90 + % I believe) of their DNA.

[B. Dandelion]

48 pages of speculation and nobody noticed that there was a family tree on the wall... :smallsigh:

Uh... I read pretty much that whole thread, and yes, people DID predict exactly that. I was quite impressed.

[KoboldRevenge]

To quote Phillip J Fry "I knew it! Insane theories one, regular theories a billion."

Well that's a twist!

[Smolder]

I love how the comic perfectly recaps how the forum discussion went:

:roy: Is it an illusion?

:durkon: Nope.

:roy: Is it a decoy or trap?

:haley: To convince people the gate is less defended?

:roy: Why didn't Belkar recognize corpse smell?

:durkon: Desert mummification.

:haley: Why didn't the bugs start eating?

:vaarsuvius:The illusion just wore off.
((Edit: Thanks, Jeraff, you beat me to it))

:elan: Was it Nale?

:roy: Not his style.

:elan: Xykon?

:roy: He's capable...

:elan: ...but would have made zombies.

:haley: These people died two weeks ago. And look, they helpfully compiled charts and graphs showing the exact timeline over the last two weeks.

[Gift Jeraff]

Still working my way through the thread, but I can't help but notice a distinct lack of the name "Girard" on the spell chart.

Though, I suppose, he might be left off of it coz he has other things to do. Or is at the bottom of it for some reason...There are two lists. Presumably the other is "Illusions (Pyramid)," which might have his name on it. Or maybe he has his own personal "Illusions (Gate)" list.

[Porthos]

He's either dead or not an active part of maintaining the defenses.

Or, at least not the canyon ones. But, yeah, him being dead is certainly more probable right now.

OTOH, I just have a nagging feeling that we ain't seen the last of him yet. Call it a hunch without much basis in fact at the moment. :smallsmile:

[Geno9999]

DRAKEtooth...
DO'H!!!
So, V accidentally killed a major defense of the gate. Nice job breaking it hero. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero)

I guess this means that human-dragon hybrids have a tattoo as a mark.

[t209]

A random question out of the blue: if a male dragon mates with a human female resulting in a half-dragon...does she give birth to eggs or humanoids with draconic traits directly?

Probably Mutant Babies! (Biology says that Humans are mammals (Mammals cannot lay eggs).

[Nephrahim]

The Order is never going to forgive V for this, I doubt V will ever forgive hirself for this, and frankly they shouldn't.

Hell, they should twist the knife a bit more. You know how sometimes you beg someone to punish you, because anything's better than the guilt and anger you feel towards yourself? That you know you deserve and that somehow makes it worse?

I have the feeling that's what's going to happen. V's going to, along with whatever happens, beg for the order to kill hir, torture hir, hurt hir somehow because nothing could be as bad as the pain s/he's feeling. And they won't.

But I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen next, except that it's going to be good.

Wow, that's a.... rather dark interpretation of what will happen.

V will feel terrible, of course, and may feel the need for repentance, but the order will most likely tell hir they still need V's help.

But now I'm speculating, so who knows.

[Joe the Rat]

Holy crap. Crap crap crap crap crap.

...

Well played, Giant!

Ooookay... Good one, V! That is a heck of a lot of collateral damage, and certainly has put the Order in a bit of a (mastercraft) pickle. Two different teams of Unfriendlies zeroing in soon, and nobody left to maintain the defenses. (Lesson: Play to your strengths, but have a backup plan for when your strength fails you. Or your entire family gets wiped out by some truly epic necromancy.)

I'm fairly certain this was not in the IFCC plan - or if it was, it was an unlikely outcome, given how surprised they look. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html) That might just be from the verbal lemon juice V's pouring over the dragons wounds, but I'm leaning towards the raw act side.

Looks like I'm not the only one who was wondering about this being the "Mysterious Circumstance" that took Penelope. Either a twisted family tree, or a seriously aggressive bit of sympathetic magic.



OK -- looks like Mama ABD had a brother with weird tastes, alrighty... :smalleek:
Well, y'know... redheads.

[Chess Tyrant]

Uh... I read pretty much that whole thread, and yes, people DID predict exactly that. I was quite impressed.

It took six replies to predict Familicide, but the family tree is visible on the wall in 841, right behind Elan. Maybe I just missed the appropriate comments, but I never saw someone suggest that particular picture was a family tree.

[Aaron]

:smalleek:Well well, looks like the forum speculation was right after all.

:elan: Dun dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!

The looks of horror on V and Blackwing really have a kick to it. Lets see if V drops the bombshell about Familicide and the demons now.
An interesting detail is how the characters and the speech bubbles are blocking the view of the family tree chart until the last panels.
On a side note, anybody have about two dozen times 5000gp worth of diamonds for resurrections? :smallannoyed:

[Shadowknight13]

Probably Mutant Babies! (Biology says that Humans are mammals (Mammals cannot lay eggs).

Well, yeah, but we know that dragons and dragonkind can be adept at magic, and everyone knows magic can do crazy things, like merging an owl with a bear, or a duck with a snake, or a bunny with a wolf, or even a penguin with a lion. So it may be unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibility that with magic, mammals CAN actually lay eggs.

[Joe the Rat]

The looks of horror on V and Blackwing really have a kick to it. Lets see if V drops the bombshell about Familicide and the demons now.

Yeah, I'm not seeing that much personal responsibility being taken.

[SaintRidley]

Probably Mutant Babies! (Biology says that Humans are mammals (Mammals cannot lay eggs).

Never heard of this guy, eh?

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1001/platypus-platypus-humor-god-demotivational-poster-1263410839.jpg

[t209]

DRAKEtooth...
DO'H!!!
So, V accidentally killed a major defense of the gate. Nice job breaking it hero. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceJobBreakingItHero)

I guess this means that human-dragon hybrids have a tattoo as a mark.

No, Vengeance consumes him! His (supposedly) love for family made him a thoughtless monsters. I guess V have to trade his soul to revive the Draketooths (or timetravel).

[Crisis21]

Or, at least not the canyon ones. But, yeah, him being dead is certainly more probable right now.

OTOH, I just have a nagging feeling that we ain't seen the last of him yet. Call it a hunch without much basis in fact at the moment. :smallsmile:

So far, Xykon and Redcloak have dueled three members of the Order of the Scribble at their gates. Even Soon, who we all knew was dead, made an appearance. I'd be a bit disappointed if this pattern did not continue.

What I'm looking forward to finding out is how.

[Zea mays]

The Order is never going to forgive V for this, I doubt V will ever forgive hirself for this, and frankly they shouldn't.

Hell, they should twist the knife a bit more. You know how sometimes you beg someone to punish you, because anything's better than the guilt and anger you feel towards yourself? That you know you deserve and that somehow makes it worse?

I have the feeling that's what's going to happen. V's going to, along with whatever happens, beg for the order to kill hir, torture hir, hurt hir somehow because nothing could be as bad as the pain s/he's feeling. And they won't.

But I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen next, except that it's going to be good.

I V wants to find someone to punish him, he should just stay put.

- The New & Improved Linear Guild is coming in after them - I'm sure Z is itching for a re-match
- Xykon is headed towards them, and I don't think he'll have any problem remembering the elf who helped lose his phylactery
- If all that fails, he can just free the Kobold.

My favorite Elf is in for a (not undeserved) world of hurt. :smalleek:

[ThreeEyedOni]

A random question out of the blue: if a male dragon mates with a human female resulting in a half-dragon...does she give birth to eggs or humanoids with draconic traits directly?

I can actually give you an educated guess on this:

In the real world, you have snakes that lay eggs, and snakes that give live birth. Me and some other breeders were discussing what would happen if you bred a hybrid between the two types.

While none of us have done this, and I really don't want to be the first to experiment, it was generally agreed that by matter of necessity the reproductive choice would depend on the mother's biology.

So yes, the woman would likely give birth to a bouncing, scaly boy.

[Julian84]

Come on, Giant, I spend so much time tipping my hat to you I never get to wear it at all. :smallannoyed:

[Gift Jeraff]

I love how the comic perfectly recaps how the forum discussion went:

:roy: Is it an illusion?

:durkon: Nope.

:roy: Is it a decoy or trap?

:haley: To convince people the gate is less defended?

:roy: Why didn't Belkar recognize corpse smell?

:durkon: Desert mummification.

:elan: Was it Nale?

:roy: Not his style.

:elan: Xykon?

:roy: He's capable...

:elan: ...but would have made zombies.

:haley: These people died two weeks ago. And look, they helpfully compiled charts and graphs showing the exact timeline over the last two weeks.You forgot:

:haley: Why didn't the bugs start eating?

:vaarsuvius: The illusion just wore off.

[DoctorIllithid]

The fact this was predicted all over the place, by multiple people, does little to undermine the "Oh sh*t" factor here. Well done, Giant. As always.

[The MunchKING]

Ah man, looks like the Familicide camp was right. there goes MY 10 GP.

[Pokonic]

Well, y'know... redheads.

Redheads: Corrupting young, impressional dragons since -1000 DR.

[Porthos]

There are two lists. Presumably the other is "Illusions (Pyramid)," which might have his name on it. Or maybe he has his own personal "Illusions (Gate)" list.

THe latter is my guess.

What I was more pointing out is that we still really have no idea whether or not Girard is alive right now/was alive at the time of the casting of Familicide.

Sure, we gots hints. But it's still a pretty major mystery to be solved.

And I am still putting a bet on someone, anyone surviving this tragedy. Either through non-blood relation (a captured wife/husband who hadn't procreated yet perhaps) or through Epic Magic defending against Epic Magic.

After all, someone is gonna have to be cross with what happened. Besides, you know, the rest of the Order.

Which brings me to my other bet. I am tending to think that V isn't going to pipe up and volunteer info on what happened. He's just too private about his shames.

Though I will also say this represents a heck of a chance to step up and take the consequences of one's actions. I just get the sense that V is gonna rationalize it all away to himself and keep his yap shut though.

[Circle of Life]

Oh.

Oh wow.

I did not see that one coming, to the point where I just said "oh snap" out loud when reading the comic.

[Shadowknight13]

I can actually give you an educated guess on this:

In the real world, you have snakes that lay eggs, and snakes that give live birth. Me and some other breeders were discussing what would happen if you bred a hybrid between the two types.

While none of us have done this, and I really don't want to be the first to experiment, it was generally agreed that by matter of necessity the reproductive choice would depend on the mother's biology.

So yes, the woman would likely give birth to a bouncing, scaly boy.

Well, let's hope that other features like horns and spines develop as they mature instead of being born with it, otherwise: ouch.

[Elderac]

That was my reaction! "Oh, snap!" indeed.

What a heck of a lead-up.

[Wyntonian]

....What. Seriously. Darn, Giant. You good. You gosh-darn good.

[ThreeEyedOni]

Well, let's hope that other features like horns and spines develop as they mature instead of being born with it, otherwise: ouch.

*shrug* Makes sense. Jackson's Chameleons don't start developing their horns until well after hatching; up until what you might consider "puberty" both the males and females look the same.

Same goes for species like bearded dragons; you sure as heck wouldn't want to give birth to an adult, but when they're a baby... ok, so you still sure as heck wouldn't want to give birth to one, but for different reasons.

[Flame of Anor]

It took six replies to predict Familicide, but the family tree is visible on the wall in 841, right behind Elan. Maybe I just missed the appropriate comments, but I never saw someone suggest that particular picture was a family tree.

You missed the appropriate comments. I distinctly remember them.

[SaintRidley]

Have to say, this will merit some commentary in the fifth compilation. I look forward to seeing what Rich says about it there.

[Welknair]

I just realized. The face tattoos are Dragonmarks. I'm in awe.

[jere7my]

It took six replies to predict Familicide, but the family tree is visible on the wall in 841, right behind Elan. Maybe I just missed the appropriate comments, but I never saw someone suggest that particular picture was a family tree.

This is the earliest reference to the family tree that I could find:


I have been trying to find any correlation between any of the visible marks and the runes on the far wall that look like they might be a family tree, but I haven't found any obvious matches.

That's from page 33 of the thread for #841.

[Rizzer]

Continuity error: the Family Tree lies to the right of the door in #841, but it's shown to the left of the door in #842.

Unless there's two copies of it, which might be the case. #841 does show a pattern to the left which has a similar form to the one on the right. Why would they make two copies?

[kierthos]

Son of a....

You know, when I came up with the crazy theory, I wasn't expecting to be correct.

[Laws of Chaos]

Continuity error: the Family Tree lies to the right of the door in #841, but it's shown to the left of the door in #842.

Unless there's two copies of it, which might be the case. #841 does show a pattern to the left which has a similar form to the one on the right. Why would they make two copies?

It's shown in both locations, just not at he same time

[Fishman]

What is funnier to think of is the entire clan finding the entire Sapphire Guard and Soon standing there. Good ol afterlife brawl....Unlikely. Soon and the Sapphire Guard are in the Lawful Good afterlife. These guys are probably off in the Chaotic Neutral afterlife, assuming they were all "Always Chaotic Neutral" like Girard himself, which may be a stretch. They could just end up shotgunned across the wheel of afterlives.

[silvadel]

I wonder if this means V actually got a smidge of exp from the familicide for killing Girard.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Laws of Chaos]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/259/927/ebb.gif



My thoughts exactly!

[Forikroder]

still makes me wonder what killed Girard, i doubt it was old age especially since he seemed so far up the family tree

i wonder if any of his epic illusions were still up though a high level sorcerer(?) with a special super long lasting illusion

[treyh37]

well this also explains the "mysterious circumstances" of penelope's death since shes related by the daughter.

still we have at least one spell caster left of draketooths peoples since we had a scry eye from back in the desert most likely not related to the draketooths (though they could be undead since the spell only targets alive family members).

also this firmly squashes the haley is related to the draketooths theory (doesn't stop them from knowing each other though)

[Toxinthegreat]

:smalleek:
In all my months of reading OOTS I have never EVER been so surprised! I did know the Familicide theory, but thought it was just weird! Now, I know that it was V.... I was extremely Excited when I saw it. I hope S/he explains.
Great comic as alwas Giant!

[Aaron]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the IFCC had arranged to or planned on having Haera "influence" V with whispers in the ear to use the Familicide on the Black dragon. Note what the orange Fiend says in panel 4 to Quarr (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html). The gate might (and probably does) have weakened defenses right now as Roy said.

[deuxhero]

Damn...


In other news...


The Giant mentioned in the podcast he posted the arc would reveal motives for Girard distrusting Soon. I'm assuming they aren't "Your Paladin shows up 50 strips to too late to drag some adventures to jail and thus lets them kill my cousin (?) which leads to my death" as he is an epic illusionist and not an epic diviner, so I wonder what they are.

[fruityjanitor]

One crazy theory and a million semi-sane theories... :smallwink:

Haha! Kudos to everyone who guessed this after seeing the previous page!

[Psyren]

Brilliant.

*waits for Kaytara*

:smallamused:

[Flame of Anor]

Damn...


In other news...


The Giant mentioned in the podcast he posted the arc would reveal motives for Girard distrusting Soon. I'm assuming they aren't "Your Paladin shows up 50 strips to too late to drag some adventures to jail and thus lets them kill my cousin (?) which leads to my death" as he is an epic illusionist and not an epic diviner, so I wonder what they are.

I'll place my bet right now--we're going to encounter some living Draketooth(s). Either some weird evasion of the spell, or rezzed by Durkon.

[Shale]

well this also explains the "mysterious circumstances" of penelope's death since shes related by the daughter.

still we have at least one spell caster left of draketooths peoples since we had a scry eye from back in the desert most likely not related to the draketooths (though they could be undead since the spell only targets alive family members).

also this firmly squashes the haley is related to the draketooths theory (doesn't stop them from knowing each other though)

They eye was Zz'ditri. Same two-toned green aura as his other spells, and how else would Nale know that the order had been in the middle of the desert a few days before?

[DreadArchon]

Sometimes we get cheap jokes. :smalltongue:

Sometimes we get background fluff. :smallsmile:

Sometimes we get shocking twists. :smalleek:

Sometimes we get creeping, horrifying reveals that everyone sees coming but nobody wants to believe. :smallfrown:


MASTERFUL PACING: The feat Mr. Burlew took that guarantees he will always be better than M.N. Shyamalan and J.J. Abrams combined. :smallcool:

[Flame of Anor]

MASTERFUL PACING: The feat Mr. Burlew took that guarantees he will always be better than M.N. Shyamalan and J.J. Abrams combined. :smallcool:

uh-oh...it's M.J. SHYBRAMS

[Andrew Stevens]

Damn...


In other news...


The Giant mentioned in the podcast he posted the arc would reveal motives for Girard distrusting Soon. I'm assuming they aren't "Your Paladin shows up 50 strips to too late to drag some adventures to jail and thus lets them kill my cousin (?) which leads to my death" as he is an epic illusionist and not an epic diviner, so I wonder what they are.

Draketooth is descended from a black dragon. The color of the dragon is key and probably the answer to your question.

[Forikroder]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the IFCC had arranged to or planned on having Haera "influence" V with whispers in the ear to use the Familicide on the Black dragon. Note what the orange Fiend says in panel 4 to Quarr (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html). The gate might (and probably does) have weakened defenses right now as Roy said.

but the IFCC dont really want weakened defences, in all likelihood Tarquin is going to come save the day becuase team evil can still roll over team good

especially with Girard AWOL the IFCC would want the draketooths alive since then it would be one huge melee if it was Dorukons they wouldnt mind if the defender is dead but the draketooths are less likely to have a self destruct rune, so if Xykon does rip his way through the defenders and they control the gate long enough to cast the ritual thats game over for them, any enemys the IFCC has in the nine hells will blame THEM for the Dark One getting the Snarl since it was there soul splice that caused it to lose all its defenses

[Riverdance]

Somebody on this forum mentioned the theory that the "drake" in girard draketooth's name meant he was descended from dragons and therefore V's familicide killed him. Whoever that was props to you, you totally called it.:amused:

[OverdrivePrime]

WOW. That caught me completely off guard. Fantastic update, Giant! I think my jaw dented my laptop!

[The MunchKING]

Wow, looks like the Familicide camp was right. There goes MY 10 GP.

[Lemur Bear]

Well played Giant, well played...