DC Optimisation

[Heliomance]

I've been looking around the standard repositories of CO knowledge, and I can't find this anywhere. A comprehensive list of the various different ways to increase your spell DCs. I'll try and keep this updated as more stuff comes in, I'm AFB, so the initial list will be very short.

Classes
Master Specialist (Illusion)CM: +2 to Illusion spells with Will (disbelief)
Beguiler: +1/+2 against enemies denied their Dex mod to AC
Wild SoulCM: +1 to Enchantment


Races
Gnome: +1 to Illusion only.

Feats
Spell Focus: +1 to a school of your choice, or to [good], [evil], [chaos], or [law]CD
Greater Spell Focus: +1 to a school of your choice
Ability FocusMM: +2 to a single spell of your choice
Cold FocusFB: +1 to [cold] spells
Greater Cold FocusFB: +1 to [cold] spells
Shadow Weave MagicPGtF: +1 to Enchantment, Illusion and Necromancy
Shadow TricksterToB: +2 to Illusion while in a Shadow Hand stance
Vow of NonviolenceBoED: +4 to non-damaging spells
Malign Spell FocusBoVD: +1 to [evil] spells

Domains
DominationCD: Grants Spell Focus (Enchantment) as a bonus feat
TyrantSC: +2 to (compulsion) spells


Items
Veil of AllureMIC: +2 to Enchantment


Other
Illusion VeilMoI: Soulmeld, +1 to Illusion

[Heliomance]

Reserved. Post away!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Feat: Divine Spellpower (CDiv). Increase DC by a number equal to Turn Attempts used. Gets quite ridiculous with Nightsticks and other methods of boosting your number of turn attempts. Used to combo with Holy Word/etc... for 'no save, no SR, no immunities, just die now kkthxbai'.

Also, one method of DC stacking is to stat-stack the relevant stat. This can easily get you fairly high relatively quickly.

[Particle_Man]

Are we going with Pathfinder? Because the Arcane Bloodline of the Sorcerer has a power that does that for one school of the caster's choice. And the Advanced Player's Guide has some variant race powers that help out DC of certain spell types.

[lunar2]

feat: ability focus (MM): +2 to the save DC of any special ability. I don't think I've ever had a caster that didn't have ability focus: spellcasting

feat: sudden ability focus (ToM, binder section): 3/day, increase the the save DC of any ability by 2. generally not great, but usable with meldshaping (incarnum) and binding, since your special abilities change from day to day.

Item: anything boosting ability scores

[DarthCyberWolf]

Feat: Divine Spellpower (CDiv).

Divine Spell Power increases your caster level, it does nothing to the save DCs.

The feats Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focus (Frostburn) give +1 to the save DCs for cold spells only, stacking with spell focus 'n such.

The feat Shadow Weave Magic (Player's Guide to Faerûn) gives +1 save DC for enchantment, illusion, and necromancy spells.

There's also, uh... Heighten Spell. But that's probably not exactly what you're looking for. :smallwink:

[Heliomance]

feat: ability focus (MM): +2 to the save DC of any special ability. I don't think I've ever had a caster that didn't have ability focus: spellcasting

Wait, is that legal? :smallconfused:

[lunar2]

as far as i know. every DM i've ever had allowed it.
edit:



ABILITY FOCUS [GENERAL]
Choose one of the creature’s special attacks.
Prerequisite: Special attack.
Benefit: Add +2 to the DC for all saving throws against the special attack on which the creature focuses.
Special: A creature can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the creature takes the feat it applies to a different special attack.



spellcasting is always listed as a single special attack, so by raw, i think it is legal.

[Deathslayer7]

I don't think it is legal Spellcasting is not considered a special attack, it is considered an action.

I can see the argument though that I cast a spell as an attack, but not every spell you cast is used as an attack.

I might allow it for one specific spell but not for all of them.

But then you also have ability Focus (Eldritch Blast) but that is different. A Warlock ALWAYS uses Eldritch Blast to cast a spell.

Do you have a specific link where it says that in the SRD?

[lunar2]

just that all monsters with casting abilities list "Spells" under special attacks. I know it's probably cheesy, i'm just saying that it's there. as for the link, no. i've got the downloaded SRD, and my internet is too slow to go searching for it on the site.

[Deathslayer7]

Those special attacks of monsters are spell-like abilities not spells. Though some of them do get at will.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I would rule on that. From the SRD,

Special Abilities include Spell Like Abilities and Spells, but special attacks will give you trip disarm grapple, etc.

[NeoSeraphi]

Ability Focus (Spellcasting) is not legal, because Spellcasting does not have a DC to save against. Each individual spell has its own individual saving throw, but the Spellcasting special attack does not have a saving throw, therefore you cannot increase it.



Ah, I've spent quite a bit of time doing this particular type of min-maxing. Here we go:

Master Specialist (Prestige Class, Complete Mage)- Increases the DC for Will(Disbelief) effects by +2.

Domination Domain (Complete Divine)- Grants Spell Focus (Enchantment) as a bonus feat

Tyrant Domain (Spell Compendium)- Increase the DC for all (compulsion) spells you cast by +2.

Beguiler (Base Class, PHB II)- Cloaked Casting (+1 DC for all spells you cast against an opponent who is denied their Dex mod to AC, increases to +2 at 14th level)

Shadow Trickster (Feat, ToB)- While you are in a Shadow Hand stance, the DC for all illusion spells you cast increases by +2.

Earth Spell (Feat, Races of Stone)- When using Heighten Spell while touching the ground, you get a free +1 the DC of the spell (unless you are already Heightening it to 9th level)

Veil of Allure (Item, Magic Item Compendium)- +2 to the DC of your enchantment spells.

Illusion Veil (Soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum)- +1 to the DC of your illusion spells.

[onemorelurker]

Ability Focus (Spellcasting) is not legal, because Spellcasting does not have a DC to save against. Each individual spell has its own individual saving throw, but the Spellcasting special attack does not have a saving throw, therefore you cannot increase it.

Mildly off-topic, would it be possible to take Ability Focus ([One specific spell])? Or does the fact that spells aren't individually listed as special attacks prevent this? I'm not saying that it's a good idea, but I'm curious as to whether it would work.

[NeoSeraphi]

Mildly off-topic, would it be possible to take Ability Focus ([One specific spell])? Or does the fact that spells aren't individually listed as special attacks prevent this? I'm not saying that it's a good idea, but I'm curious as to whether it would work.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that is perfectly legal, yes.

[lunar2]

Those special attacks of monsters are spell-like abilities not spells. Though some of them do get at will.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I would rule on that. From the SRD,

Special Abilities include Spell Like Abilities and Spells, but special attacks will give you trip disarm grapple, etc.

no, i am specifically referring to creatures such as the trumpet archon that are true spellcasters. on the special attack line, it lists spells.

however, as NeoSeraphi pointed out, it's not legal because spellcasting doesn't have a set DC to increase. i just had nice (or dumb) DMs.

[FMArthur]

Actually... the listing in the statblock for monsters with class levels just shows as "spells". Not the act of spellcasting, it just refers to the spells themselves. Whether it applies collectively or not is the same argument as the ones about other collective abilities listed as one special attack, such as a beholder's Eye Rays.

I would absolutely rule that they need to be taken individually per spell, but that's a judgment for game balance and the intent (they wouldn't make a feat to wholly outclass Spell Focus so obviously).

For an argument on the RAW, I don't think the rules ever mention it; can anyone find precedent for a monster listed as having Ability Focus on a special attack listed as a collective entry, either individually or collectively? None in the Monster Manual seem to have the feat applied to any such abilities.
1Edit: Oh, here we go! In Monster Manual 3, the Mindshredder Zenthal has Ability Focus (confusion), Ability Focus (hypnotic pattern). Confusion and Hypnotic Pattern are its two Spell-Like Abilities which are listed collectively under a Spell-Like Abilities entry.

Also in MM3 is the Witchknife, who has SLAs listed under a Psionics (Sp) entry. It has Ability Focus (command) for one of them.

[Feralventas]

Master Specialist (Complete Mage) grants Greater Spell Focus for free a few levels in.

Vow of Non-violence increases the DC of non-damaging spells and effects by +4, at heavy restriction on your actions and alignment.

If you allow Pathfinder, there's spell-focus by elemental energy type as well as by spell-school.

10th level in Wild Soul (Complete Mage) adds +1 to the DC of enchantment spells.

[Person_Man]

Are you including debuffs on this list? Because there are hundreds of things which decrease an enemy's ability to resist a Saving Throw. Fear effects, a variety of auras, plenty of spells, etc.

[FMArthur]

Does Cloudy Conjuration happen before or after the spell you cast takes effect? If it happens before, the automatic Sickened condition it bestows would give -2 to saves (and other rolls) to those in a 5ft radius from your spell's target; basically a more severe, narrowly focused (spacially speaking) version of Spell Focus (Conjuration).

[nedz]

A few more
Spell Focus (Chaos), Spell Focus (Evil), Spell Focus (Good) and Spell Focus (Law) from CDiV grant +1 DC to spells with the given descriptor. Doesn't stack with any other Spell Focus though.

Spell Focus (Good) from BoED this time. adds a +2 bonus to the spells DC.

Vow of Nonviolence BoED again
+4 DC on spells & special abilities used on Humanoids & Monstrous Humanoids that do not cause lethal damage, ability damage, negative levels, automatic death, etc.

[FMArthur]

A few more
Spell Focus (Chaos), Spell Focus (Evil), Spell Focus (Good) and Spell Focus (Law) from CDiV grant +1 DC to spells with the given descriptor. Doesn't stack with any other Spell Focus though.

Spell Focus (Good) from BoED this time. adds a +2 bonus to the spells DC.

Vow of Nonviolence BoED again
+4 DC on spells & special abilities used on Humanoids & Monstrous Humanoids that do not cause lethal damage, ability damage, negative levels, automatic death, etc.

Funny, I was just reading Dragon 357's Class Acts section for an unrelated reason, and saw the Aligned Spellcaster ACF for hexblades, sorcerers and wizards to replace their familiars with.

It gives all of your spells an alignment descriptor (must be part of your own alignment) if they don't already have one that is opposite. It also gives your spells +1 CL versus opposite-aligned creatures or +2 versus those with opposite-aligned subtypes. The +CL feature doesn't work on spells that don't specifically target people (most AoEs, for instance).

So Spell Focus (alignment) could be a universal bonus to your spell DCs this way. I probably wouldn't go for it unless I was running a generalist, and maybe not even then, but there you have it. Might be nice if you enjoy save-or-X spells from various schools.

[Torq]

Tattoo focus from the DMG gives +1 to spells from your school.

[nedz]

Funny, I was just reading Dragon 357's Class Acts section for an unrelated reason, and saw the Aligned Spellcaster ACF for hexblades, sorcerers and wizards to replace their familiars with.

It gives all of your spells an alignment descriptor (must be part of your own alignment) if they don't already have one that is opposite. It also gives your spells +1 CL versus opposite-aligned creatures or +2 versus those with opposite-aligned subtypes. The +CL feature doesn't work on spells that don't specifically target people (most AoEs, for instance).

So Spell Focus (alignment) could be a universal bonus to your spell DCs this way. I probably wouldn't go for it unless I was running a generalist, and maybe not even then, but there you have it. Might be nice if you enjoy save-or-X spells from various schools.

Interesting idea which could also be applied via the following feats

From BoED
Consecrate Spell
Spell gains the [good] subtype and half the damage dealt by the spell is Untyped.

Purify Spell
Spell gains the [good] subtype, Neutral creatures take ½ damage, Good creatures take no damage and Evil Outsiders have the die size of the damage dice

From CDiv
Corrupt Spell
Spell gains the [evil] subtype and half the damage dealt by the spell is Untyped.

There all +1 Spell level

[Baldin]

Lore of the Ur-flan [General]

You're schooled in the ancient art of Ur-*Flan necromancers.

Region: Flan.

Benefit: Add +2 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against necro*mancy spells with the evil descriptor you cast. This bonus stacks with those granted by the Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats.

[ahenobarbi]

Feat: Divine Spellpower (CDiv). Increase DC by a number equal to Turn Attempts used. Gets quite ridiculous with Nightsticks and other methods of boosting your number of turn attempts. Used to combo with Holy Word/etc... for 'no save, no SR, no immunities, just die now kkthxbai'.

Also, one method of DC stacking is to stat-stack the relevant stat. This can easily get you fairly high relatively quickly.

Huh? My copy of CDiv says it changes CasterLevel not DC...

[Psyren]

No mention of Taint yet? Tainted Scholar, Tainted Sorcerer and Subverted Psion can all get your DCs to somewhere north of NI.

[FearlessGnome]

Lore of the Ur-flan [General]

You're schooled in the ancient art of Ur-*Flan necromancers.

Region: Flan.

Benefit: Add +2 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against necro*mancy spells with the evil descriptor you cast. This bonus stacks with those granted by the Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats.

Where is this beauty printed?

[Baldin]

Where is this beauty printed?

I'm not sure, we use it for our Greyhawk setting and i think its from the Furyondy gazetteer.

[FearlessGnome]

Dragon 319, it seems. A Must Have for anyone with the Mother Cyst feat. :smallbiggrin:

[gkathellar]

No mention of Taint yet? Tainted Scholar, Tainted Sorcerer and Subverted Psion can all get your DCs to somewhere north of NI.

To elaborate: there's a thoroughly TO trick and a high-op trick.

In the former case: with the (evil) subtype, Tainted Scholar/Subverted Psion increase your save DCs and your spells/day literally every time you cast a spell. It's questionable whether this trick also works with undead or evil outsiders, but I personally read it as doing so. This gets you to NI spell DCs.

The high-op trick: don't be (evil), an evil outside, or undead. Your casting stat is Con now. Why? Because Con is what lets you survive Taint. You'll take the negative effects, but you'll have really high save DCs.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Every single Reserve feat, in addition to whatever else they do, also gives a +1 DC to the relevant school/subschool/flavor/etc...

[NeoSeraphi]

Every single Reserve feat, in addition to whatever else they do, also gives a +1 DC to the relevant school/subschool/flavor/etc...

No, they give +1 to caster levels. (Summoning doesn't have saving throws, how could it increase their DCs? :smallconfused:)

[dextercorvia]

Some of the fancy holy symbols in CChampion increase saving throw DC's. Fiendish Power, Fey Power, and Draconic Power increase by 1 the DC of [Evil], Enchantments, and [Elemental] spells respectively.

Veil of Allure (MIC) +2 to DC of Enchantments and Cha based special abilities

Earth Spell Increases the effective level by 1, increasing the DC.

Shadow Weave Magic: The saving throw for every spell you cast from the schools of enchantment, illusion, and necromancy increases by +1.

Malign Spell Focus (BoVD) +1 to [Evil] Spells.

[nedz]

Anything which buffs your casting stat will also bump your save DC.

[Heliomance]

Tattoo focus from the DMG gives +1 to spells from your school.

Can I get a page number on that? Can't find it.

[FearlessGnome]

It is on page 194.

[Randomguy]

Fey power gives +1 to enchantment DC's and fiendish power gives +1 to evil spell DC's. It also boosts caster level.

[Heliomance]

Fey power gives +1 to enchantment DC's and fiendish power gives +1 to evil spell DC's. It also boosts caster level.

What book are they from?

[dextercorvia]

What book are they from?

Complete Mage.

Draconic Power is in Complete Arcane.

[FearlessGnome]

Sadly, Fiendish Power has Fiendish Heritage as a prereq. Two feats for +1DC (&+1 untyped on saves v. effects by Good aligned characters). So SF & GSF [Evil] are better options. They do stack, if you can spare 4 feats for +3 to DCs.

[dextercorvia]

Sadly, Fiendish Power has Fiendish Heritage as a prereq. Two feats for +1DC (&+1 untyped on saves v. effects by Good aligned characters). So SF & GSF [Evil] are better options. They do stack, if you can spare 4 feats for +3 to DCs.

You do also get a CL bump from the X Power feats. I usually have better stuff to spend feats on, but there are times (E6) when feats are a little less scarse.

Where is Greater Spell Focus: Evil?

[dextercorvia]

Harmonic Chorus (SC): Bard2 Spell grants another caster +2 morale bonus to CL and Saving throw DCs for spells.

Blood-Face of Erythnul (CC): 350gp, +1 to Save DCs for [Chaotic] spells.

Moradin’s Forge (CC): 350gp, +1 to Save DCs for [Earth] spells and Earth domain spells.

Vecna's Hand and Eye (CC): 350gp, +1 to CL and Save DCs for spells from the Magic and Knowledge domains.

Affiliation score of 30 with The Temple of True Aim (CC): 1/day add 1/2 your character level to a save DC for a 3rd level or lower spell you cast.

Holy Potency (CC): If you use a Positive/Negative energy spell after trying to turn/rebuke undead, the save dc is increased by your Cha bonus.

Paragnostic Apostle (CC): Discern Weakness: +1 to save DCs for spells targeting chosen creature type. -- Noble Presence: +1 to save DCs for charms or compulsions that affect emotions rather than actions. -- See through the Veil: +1 to Save DCs of Necromancy spells targeting undead.

Angel's Blood (CC): 85gp, Additional material component, increases save DCs by 1 for [Evil] spells

Crypt Powder (CC): 150gp, Additional material component, increase save DC and CL by 1 for spells that target corpses or undead.

Essences of Order(CC): 300gp, Additional material component, +1 to save DCs of [Lawful] spells.

[dextercorvia]

From Complete Mage

Battlecaster Offense: +1 to save DC vs an opponenent you hit with a melee attack in the previous round.

Captivating Melody: Make a perform check and Spend Bardic Music attempt to get a +2 to the save DC of an Enchantment or Illusion spell.

Metamagic Vigor: Metamagic Versatility: apply different metamagic to two spells cast in consecutive rounds, and get a +1 to the save DC of the second.

Master Specialist: (Illusion) Minor School Esoterica, +2 to save DCs of Illusion (Will Disbelief)

Vale of Smoke: Magical Location (18,000gp equivalent) +50% duration and +1 to save DCs of Illusion spells

[Flickerdart]

Vale of Smoke: Magical Location (18,000gp equivalent) +50% duration and +1 to save DCs of Illusion spells
Out of curiosity, does it say how it interacts with Concentration-duration spells?

[dextercorvia]

Out of curiosity, does it say how it interacts with Concentration-duration spells?

No, but it does specify all illusion spells.

[Flickerdart]

Hm...I can see the increase as either being 0 rounds (no duration by default) or Concentration+0.5X rounds where X is however long you spent concentrating. Depends on when it decides the duration of the spell. I'm leaning towards the former, since a spell's duration doesn't change if you get your CL tanked or boosted after you cast it.

[dextercorvia]

Spell Compendium

Spell Enhancer: Sor/Wiz4, +2CL and +1 Save DC on next spell.

Harmonic Chorus (Mentioned Earlier)


Magic Item Compendium

Greater Crystal of Arcane Steel: 600gp, +1 to attack, damage, and save DC of a spell delivered through a melee weapon.

Psionatrix: 8000gp, +1 to save DC of powers from the chosen discipline.

Veil of Allure: 14,000gp mentioned earlier.

Vest of the Master Evoker: 10000gp, 3/day deal extra damage,+2 save DCs for evocation spells

Frostburn

Cold Focus: +1 to save DCs for [Cold] spells. (This and GCF explicitly stack with the regular ones, unlike the alignment spell focus feats)

Greater Cold Focus:+1 to save DCs for [Cold] spells

Snowcasting: Add snow to the spell to add the [Cold] descriptor.

Complete Arcane

Elemental Savant: Energy Penetration, +1 or +2 to save DCs for spells with chosen [Energy] descriptor.

Fatespinner: Spin Fate, use one point of spin to add +1 to save dc of next spell cast.

Sanctum Spell: Spell level is increased by one in the sanctum, which gives a +1 to save DCs.

Dragon Magic

Draconic Aura: Energy, Bonus to save DCs to all effects with chosen [Energy] descriptor.

Amulet of Fearful Might: 11000gp, +2 to DCs of Fear spells (doesn't stack with SF/GSF)

Player's Handbook 2

Arcane Consumption (Don't use this, only included for completion)

Mystic Surge: Sor/Wiz4, Target's next spell is cast with +1CL and +2 Save DC

Affiliation score of 15 with SHARULHENSA, THE ALABASTER TOWER: +1 to save DCs of Enchantments.

[TurtleKing]

Illumians from Races of Destiny have a certain sigil combination that if leave two spells of different spell levels open then the other spells in that spell level have +1 DC.

Plus someone mention this before but what about effects that reduce their saves? For example Fearsome Necromancy has on necromancy spells that allow a saving throw automatically become shaken no questions asked. This basically reduces their saves by 2 for one round so could help make them fail the saving throw among the other effects.

[nedz]

Fey power gives +1 to enchantment DC's and fiendish power gives +1 to evil spell DC's. It also boosts caster level.

There is the similar Draconic Power from CArc also.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Two words: Circle Magic.

[FearlessGnome]

Two words: Circle Magic.

Except any game where the DM gives players access to Circle Magic is a game where the DM cannot be told he is being unfair when he brings out Circle Magic'd Save or Die spells as well.

It's almost as stupid a mechanic as undead going into Tainted Scholar.

[dextercorvia]

Fiendish Codex I

Temptation Domain: +1 to Save DCs to mind-affecting spells cast on the gender of your choice.