My take on Drizzt

[JadePhoenix]

First of all: I'm a Drizzt fan.
Ever since I read that Drizzt character sheet on FRCS, I kept thinking 'hm... ok...'
It just didn't capture all the stuff Drizzt was supposed to be doing. So below is my step-by-step take on a Drizzt more similar to the novels.

Ability Scores
Drizzt is extremely agile, the likes of which have never been seen before in Menzoberranzan. That's not only an 18 (a 20 with drow adjustments), that's more than that. DMG II adds the Prodigy NPC ability (page 160). This means Drizzt starts with a Dex of 22 and a +4 extra bonus on Dex ability and skill checks (for a total of +10). Now that's more like it.
The other ability scores are harder. Drizzt is supposed to deal loads of damage, but the books don't portrair him as strong (on Exile, his gnome sidekick is stronger than him). Str 14 seems to fit. Strong enough to be in melee, but still low enough that an exceptional gnome could be stronger than him. Drizzt has very keen senses and a powerful will, so Wis 16 seems to fit. The other scores seem somewhat average - Con 12, Int 13 and Cha 12 all should work.

The Hunter
During his period roaming the Underdark, Drizzt created this alter ego. Aside from the personality shift, the Hunter makes Drizzt more dangerous in combat. The best answer seems to be Barbarian 1 (like WotC did in his official sheet), but let's take the Whirling Frenzy variant, since it fits Drizzt's combat style better.

Class Levels and Finesse
With all that Dex and average (for a melee type) Str, Drizzt obviously needs Weapon Finesse. However, this feat does not apply to scimitars. The Dervish, from Complete Warrior, treats scimitar as light weapons for all purposes. It takes a buttload of feats to qualify. However, Drizzt does not cast spells, so we can safely assume he is a variant Ranger from Complete Champion, gaining a bonus feat at 4th level. By Ranger 4, we get 3 of the 4 feats we need for Dervish. Add Fighter 1 and we're set. Drizzt qualifies to Derivsh by 5th level. By the time Drizzt leave Menzoberranzan, I'm supposing he is something like Ranger 4/Fighter 1/Dervish 2 (since he should have leveled after the events in the book).
By the time he gets to the surface, he should be a Ranger 4/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Dervish 3 at most.
Feats should be: Dodge (1st), Mobility (3rd), Combat Expertise (CC Ranger), Weapon Finesse*, Weapon Focus (scimitar)*, Track**, Endurance **, TWF**, Improved TWF (6th)
* Fighter bonus
** Ranger bonus

Any thoughts on this?

[Yuukale]

Perhaps adding a refluffed revenant blade with a slight tweak (instead of the valenar double scimitar, perhaps to any scimitar or even double-wielding scimitars)

From what Salvatore writes, it feels like Drizzt has already reached Dervish 10 with a thousand cuts. He's able to keep pace with a marilith! (passage to dawn)

Though, even with all of this, I don't think he'd be dealing enough damage without the aid of, at least some precision damage (which makes a swift hunter the best course here).

[Hiro Protagonest]

Factotum 2/warblade 15, lots of Tiger Claw and Iron Heart stuff. Possibly Moment of Perfect Mind and Action Before Thought. The Hunter aspect is either Blood in the Water or Punishing Stance. Normally he stays in Absolute Steel or Stance of Alacrity. Probably Guerilla Warrior for keeping the stealth up. Factotum levels as they get the same skills as rangers, and he's reputed as highly intelligent and learned a few cantrips from his tour of the mage school back when he was still in the drow city.

[Dusk Eclipse]

A level of swordsage and Shadow blade feat would help a lot to put that massive Dex bonus to use as damage, would have to use either shortswords reflavoured as scimitars or aptitude shenanigasn to use it with scimmy

[Morty]

Didn't Drizzt learn to be a ranger only after leaving Menzoberranzan? I thought he was just a fighter while still there, but I'm not that well-versed in Drizzt lore.
Either way, what you need is Dex to damage, because Drizzt's combat style gets badly hit with 3.5's insistence that warriors need to go all "HULK SMASH".

[Prime32]

Factotum 2/warblade 15, lots of Tiger Claw and Iron Heart stuff. Possibly Moment of Perfect Mind and Action Before Thought. The Hunter aspect is either Blood in the Water or Punishing Stance. Normally he stays in Absolute Steel or Stance of Alacrity. Probably Guerilla Warrior for keeping the stealth up. Factotum levels as they get the same skills as rangers, and he's reputed as highly intelligent and learned a few cantrips from his tour of the mage school back when he was still in the drow city.This. Drizzt can't cast spells, doesn't have an animal companion, and pulls off complex maneuvers in combat (with wizards commenting that he would make a good wizard after seeing him fight, meaning Int-based). He even has a Flash Step (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlashStep) technique which he's taught to others (easily handled by Shadow Jaunt and similar maneuvers).
A level of Ferocity Lion Totem barbarian would fit too.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Didn't Drizzt learn to be a ranger only after leaving Menzoberranzan? I thought he was just a fighter while still there, but I'm not that well-versed in Drizzt lore.
Either way, what you need is Dex to damage, because Drizzt's combat style gets badly hit with 3.5's insistence that warriors need to go all "HULK SMASH".

Well, technically he did, but if you don't call his stealth and perception skills back when he was in the tunnel patrols ranger skills, I don't know what are.

As for the Whirling Frenzy, Drizz't specifically gains a bonus on will saves in the raging state (the Hunter cannot be affected by mind controlling magic), so the closest I can think of is rage, but using a certain stance and the Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver also sorta works.

[Yuukale]

Didn't Drizzt learn to be a ranger only after leaving Menzoberranzan? I thought he was just a fighter while still there, but I'm not that well-versed in Drizzt lore.


Well, he got his "surface-world nature-training" with montolio, but he operated as a ranger (actually, more akin to the scout) while in the underdark patrol.

As for the flash step, I don't think it's really a flash step, but more of a "how to catch your opponent off-guard" = feint

Although I don't like how ToB maneuvers seem like spells, I must give in to the fact that some might do the job on drizzt's abilities.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Although I don't like how ToB maneuvers seem like spells, I must give in to the fact that some might do the job on drizzt's abilities.

That's the point why I don't like the fact that some people say the system "feels wrong" or is "too spellcasty". ToB better simulates actual warrior abilities than non-ToB. The only part where that isn't quite true is "maneuvers readied" which is needed to keep the pairing balance and flexibility.

[Morty]

I see. Well then, I suppose Ranger levels prior to leaving Underdark may be in order.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If homebrew is on the table, the Sublime Ranger (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19519074/Sublime_Way_Variant_Ranger) and selecting Iron Heart instead of Shooting Star vie the Ranger's Tradition, be the best way to emulate Drizz'ts.

It would have access to Iron Heart for normal swordsmanship, Tiger Claw to help the TWF and emulate "The Hunter" and Shadow Hand for the more mystical aspect (and access to Shadow blade). The only part I feel won't be strong is archery; but I can't recall Drizz't doing particular impressive archery feats*; but he is proficient with Bows and full BAB + some Tiger claw can be used with archery if needed.


*Disclaimer: I've only read the Icewind Dale trilogy and a few years ago, so I don't have great understanding of him.

[Seharvepernfan]

His stats actually made sense in 2nd edition, but they were copy/pasted into 3rd and it didn't match. In second edition, 13 str was like 10 str, though the highest 10 str, which is what Drizzt should have - he's described as strong, but he's also 5'4" and 130lbs. He doesn't have "strength" strength, he has agility/speed "strength".

20 dex in 2nd edition was basically 22 dex in 3rd. A 19 was the highest that an elf could have, and at 19 all twf penalties were negated (thus making his attack roles higher than some stronger twfers). So, having 20 dex was a big deal.

That means that his 15 con was also more like 12, which fits.

I agree with him having the prodigy template for dexterity, I've thought of that myself and it fits perfectly.

He is highly intelligent, even for a drow. I think his mental stats are right on, though I might lower his charisma a bit - 14 seems kinda high for him. 10 or 12 is more likely.

If you were to go with non-ToB or factotum, then I'd say he's a scout/fighterlight*/barbarian (whirling frenzy)/ranger/tempest. Dervish is honestly too powerful in my opinion, even for Drizzt. *fighterlight being fighter, but getting something instead of heavy armor/tower shield - maybe guerilla warrior/scout? I also wouldn't give him 50ft. speed, despite having it from two classes - 40ft. fits. His anklets give him the real speed.

He is described as having learned some cantrips in Homeland, he can draw a summoning circle be memory in Crystal Shard, and is described by Regis as "the most knowledgeable person I've ever known" - also in Crystal Shard, but it's never come up since... So, if you were to allow factotum and warblade, then go ahead, they're probably the best fit, and they really let Drizzt be a slice above all the other fighter/rogue/ranger/scout/barbarians/various prestige classes out there.

In my homebrew, I made Drizzt like this: Scout 3/Bravo 6/Tempest 5/Barbarian (WF) 2/Ranger 2/Thief-Acrobat 2

With whirling frenzy, drop the bonus to reflex saves and keep the will saves.

Houserules being that certain feats are considered combat options that require prerequisites instead of being feats, among these being TWF/Imp/Greater and Weapon Finesse - So, if you have 19 dex and +11 Bab, you have greater two weapon fighting, and if you have at least +1 bab, you can use your dex to attack rolls with light weapons if you want. I also added in Supreme Two Weapon Fighting, which requires 21 Dex and +16 Bab.

I also have some extensive parry/riposte rules, which are basically using attacks of opportunity to attack your enemies' attacks, then expending another AoO to make a riposte. Drizzt and Artemis really shine with these rules.

Bravo is fighter, except d8, no heavy armor/tower shield, 4 skill points with balance and tumble added, and guerilla scout/warrior - but only for the bravo levels. Also, since Fighter sucks, if you take 6 levels of fighter and have at least 3 levels in something else, you can take a feat to allow you to gain 3 extra levels in that other class, kinda like gestalt, but only for the class abilities - Drizzt takes this with scout. Also, my fighters/bravos get +1 vs. fear every two levels.

Scimitars are finessable, and mithril finessable weapons gain a +1 competence bonus to attack rolls - Twinkle might be mithril...

His stats are Str 11, Dex 22, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 12 at 1st level.


BTW, it's "Ghost step" not flash step.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Dervish is honestly too powerful in my opinion, even for Drizzt.

...What.

Dervish isn't too powerful. It actually makes dual-wielding scimitars viable. It's also weaker than a ToB class.

[Yuukale]

He is highly intelligent, even for a drow. I think his mental stats are right on, though I might lower his charisma a bit - 14 seems kinda high for him. 10 or 12 is more likely.

Agreed, he's not much socially articulate, oftentimes quiet and a bit shy. (drow priestess, alustriel and innovindil may have a saying on that...)



If you were to go with non-ToB or factotum, then I'd say he's a scout/fighterlight*/barbarian (whirling frenzy)/ranger/tempest. Dervish is honestly too powerful in my opinion, even for Drizzt. *fighterlight being fighter, but getting something instead of heavy armor/tower shield - maybe guerilla warrior/scout? I also wouldn't give him 50ft. speed, despite having it from two classes - 40ft. fits. His anklets give him the real speed.


Dervish too powerful? Why do you say this?
In his defense, this guy when raging delivers almost literally "a thousand cuts"! I may understand dervish being sub-part from an optimization/mechanical point of view, but it's what best fits drizzt (other than a tome of battle approach)



He is described as having learned some cantrips in Homeland, he can draw a summoning circle be memory in Crystal Shard, and is described by Regis as "the most knowledgeable person I've ever known" - also in Crystal Shard, but it's never come up since...


I'd have that as some points in knowledge (Arcana) and knowledge (the planes) - as for the cantrips, perhaps some feat that grants cantrips (i believe there are some)

OR a "knowledge(arcana)-based skill trick" such as "for every bonus int you have, you may cast a chosen cantrip from wizard/sorcerer list/day)

Btw: flash step is the trope name :P

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, he got his "surface-world nature-training" with montolio, but he operated as a ranger (actually, more akin to the scout) while in the underdark patrol.

As for the flash step, I don't think it's really a flash step, but more of a "how to catch your opponent off-guard" = feint

Although I don't like how ToB maneuvers seem like spells, I must give in to the fact that some might do the job on drizzt's abilities.

No, he ran 'point' while operating in the Underdark Patrol. Which is to say 'beatstick/meatshield'. He started off with Fighter levels. Back in 2e, when the books were written, Fighters (and their derivatives) were just about the only class which had multiple attack progression, however it gives you the feats necessary to get into Dervish in a reasonable time frame. Also, don't forget Tempest, which was inspired by him.

He's got a decent Wis score, so he's got an okay Spot and Listen check. Enough to at least survive.

When he leaves, Hunter Mode is pretty much Barbarian. I'd say go Whirl AND Pounce variants, since he can charge and still make a full attack.

He doesn't even begin taking Ranger levels until he hits the surface. Which royally screws him over, because he picks up TWF as a bonus Fighter feat, then picks up Ranger... and chooses melee fighting style, which gives him no benefit whatsoever for several levels.

Now, if you really want, have him start off with Fighter2 for the bonus feats. You and I both know he's going to need them. Then go into your bog-standard Swift Hunter build with Scout, picking up a level of WhirlPounceBarian along the way. This gives him an additional source of damage per swing (skirmish), a method of applying it (pounce), and it synergizes well with a Dervish build.

[JadePhoenix]

Didn't Drizzt learn to be a ranger only after leaving Menzoberranzan? I thought he was just a fighter while still there, but I'm not that well-versed in Drizzt lore.
Either way, what you need is Dex to damage, because Drizzt's combat style gets badly hit with 3.5's insistence that warriors need to go all "HULK SMASH".

Not really, he was a master of surviving in the underdark. If that's not a Ranger...

EDIT: Also, can't I believe I forgot this, but Drow Fighter fits Drizzt really well. Dex to damage and +2 Initiative.

[Seharvepernfan]

I think Dervish was a poorly balanced class, at least for non-casters. It just lobs on the bonuses and VERY beneficial abilities - compare it to Tempest or any core/complete class.

A point man needs to be extremely alert and quick - a scout. Furthermore, Drizzt is described as being an exceptional point man, meaning he is exceptionally alert and quick. It's all about hide/move silently/listen/spot/initiative/reflex.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think Dervish was a poorly balanced class, at least for non-casters. It just lobs on the bonuses and VERY beneficial abilities - compare it to Tempest or any core/complete class.

...I'm not seeing it being overpowered compared to a spirit lion whirling frenzy barbarian. And spellcasters are still leagues ahead, you can't just say "compared to non-casters". Also, Tempest sucks.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think Dervish was a poorly balanced class, at least for non-casters. It just lobs on the bonuses and VERY beneficial abilities - compare it to Tempest or any core/complete class.And pidgeonholes that character into a single sub-par fighting style.


A point man needs to be extremely alert and quick - a scout. Furthermore, Drizzt is described as being an exceptional point man, meaning he is exceptionally alert and quick. It's all about hide/move silently/listen/spot/initiative/reflex.

He didn't do much hide/move silently, that was more his cloak's work. Initiative is Dex and has nothing to do with class, and Improved Initiative is a Fighter bonus feat. Dex also directly affects Reflex saves. Listen and Spot both use his higher Wis mod, and can be taken cross-class.

I see nothing in this description which 'demands' anything other than Fighter.

[gkathellar]

I think Dervish was a poorly balanced class, at least for non-casters. It just lobs on the bonuses and VERY beneficial abilities - compare it to Tempest or any core/complete class.

... you have read the barbarian, right?

Also, Tempest? Really? Tempest is awful. How could you even begin to compare an okay-ish melee PrC with Tempest?

[Taelas]

As much as it makes sense to increase his Dexterity (as scores above 18 mean something different than what they did in 2nd Edition), it really makes no sense to reduce the rest.

Str 13, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 14. Those should be his stats, before any level adjustments.

Drizzt could be pulled off as a Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger/Dervish, and it makes a good deal of sense. Might want to use Ferocity instead of Whirling Frenzy, but all three (even normal Rage) make sense.