Wait a minute...ringS of true seeing???

[cloudland]

In this comics, V seems to explain that the reason why the bugs did not devour the bodies is because they are unable to see what they are eating. Let's just assume that these bugs are affected by invisibility (because per rules those with vermin trait don't necessarily include blindsight, only darkvision), then the question remains is...how do the Draketooth clan see among themselves, or even their food, their furniture?
The answer I find most sensible is a large number of them have rings of true seeing. This seems to fit the previous development with Penelope give Tarquin a ring of true seeing as birthday gift: she could have gotten one from Orrin who have it because his clan manufactured it enmass.
In that case, if OOTS loot the corpses of them now, they will have plenty of such rings to use. So who would do the looting? Belkar is not hesitated to loot from corpse, and V is fine with that too, and Haley is greedy. Problem is, Haley and Belkar is now busy in another room, and V is probably still too shocked.
So what do you think about this hypothesis?

[Goosefarble]

I doubt anyone among the party (except possibly Durkon and Elan) would be adverse to taking the rings off people who clearly can't use them any more. It's more of a question of usefulness, which, given that all of the illusions have pretty much worn off now, isn't going to come up much again (unless someone in the Draketooth family somehow survived). If it were me, I'd still take them, but I don't know if it's going to be addressed, really.

[Friv]

Pretty sure that what V meant was that the entire chamber was invisible from the outside, so the bugs couldn't get inside to eat. Now that the chamber is visible, bugs are flying in for supper.

[Chuckles101]

It is possible that the inivisibility is actually an illusion. Thus anyone who disbelieves the illusion could see things as they are. Obviously, the Draketooths would (nearly) automatically disbelieve the illusion, while other creatures might not.

If the invisibility is an illusion, there's no need for the rings. However, this also is a will-save against invisibility

[Giddon]

It was most probably an illusion because images have a lot longer durations then invisibility. Of course we are talking about possible epic level illusionists which could very possibly have found a better version of invisibility sphere, which allows people inside to still see each other.

[SavageWombat]

Interesting idea, but we know from Haley that the comic roughly follows the wealth-by-level guidelines, so that's out.

[BaronOfHell]

Being invisible from the outside does not make something invisible from the inside. Not even in our world. In a world of magic, such limitation would be surprising. Beside, I don't think it's solely invisibility, more like untangible and can't be sensed. It's not like it'd be hard to interact with something you can't sense, like it's not hard to sense something you can't eat.

[cloudland]

I think the possibilities that you are suggesting does not fit what seems to have happened in the comics:
-If invisibility is cast on the whole pyramid, and as you're suggesting people inside the same invisibility spell can see "from the inside", then the bugs itself would be able to see those bodies and would consume them.
-If you think anyone who is under invisibility can see other invisible object, then it would not fit the description of invisibility spell.
-If you think the bug just fly in, then it seems rather weird that bugs already managed to crowd in there in just 20mins after the party dispel invisibility.
-If it's not invisibility but something else, then it's hard to explain how does the magic stay after a few weeks, since there is noone left to cast it. At least invisibility can be made permanent easily. Though this might be still possible, if someone is still alive, or perhaps it's because Eugene somehow managed to provide a permanent illusion of Belkar in jail before.

[BaronOfHell]

I think the possibilities that you are suggesting does not fit what seems to have happened in the comics:
Maybe not. Hopefully any criticism from each party will be constructive and well met.:smallsmile:

-If invisibility is cast on the whole pyramid, and as you're suggesting people inside the same invisibility spell can see "from the inside", then the bugs itself would be able to see those bodies and would consume them.
Would that not require the bugs to be inside? The bugs could never get inside if the pyramide always was "invisible". I think the bugs flew in as soon as the spell was lifted.

-If you think anyone who is under invisibility can see other invisible object, then it would not fit the description of invisibility spell.
That's not what I implied. My post is not about single persons being invisible, nor is it about seperate invisible people/things being able to interact with eachother. It's neither how the scene in question appears.

-If you think the bug just fly in, then it seems rather weird that bugs already managed to crowd in there in just 20mins after the party dispel invisibility.
It's bugs in a world with other rules in a clima where we don't know half the details. V indicated the bugs could to some degree sense the food. Belkar could smell it. It makes it probable that any spell that covered smell, should this not be part of an illusion, had dissapeared at this time, but the bugs could as of yet still not interact with the pyramid. Had the pyramid merely been invisible, it'd be no problem to eat something invisible. So the bugs probably had plenty of time to gather, but no time to eat, like explained in the comic.

-If it's not invisibility but something else, then it's hard to explain how does the magic stay after a few weeks, since there is noone left to cast it. At least invisibility can be made permanent easily. Though this might be still possible, if someone is still alive, or perhaps it's because Eugene somehow managed to provide a permanent illusion of Belkar in jail before.
I honestly don't know. Though Girard was epic, so I'd not be surprised if he had some permanent spell. In any case, I don't think the mechanics behind is really relevant in regard to my post. I mean.. it's magic, just because it is or isn't part of some obscure book, does not make it more or less likely to be applied in the story.

Thanks for your comment, I found them constructive and it was a pleasure replying to them.:smallsmile:

[Onyavar]

So what do you think about this hypothesis?

Yep. Penelope getting such a ring from a Draketooth family member is now simply the easiest way of explaining how she got it.

Good find!
Tough I doubt that the order will now put a ring of true seeing on each finger.

By the way - how many magic rings can you wear? In D&D computer games it's 2 rings of course, but what about p&p? Also, can you wear rings on your feet, or in a rather unpleasant position as alluded to in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html)? :smalleek:

[AntMac]

Why would bugs need to see to find things they want to eat?. They mostly don't have long range sight anyway. They live in caves a lot. And they eat while inside things, in the dark, all the time ( ants, borer beetles, corpse beetles ) and also come out at night a LOT to feed.
Anyone with a garden will tell you that.

They would just think it was night, or under a stone.

[Grey Watcher]

Yep. Penelope getting such a ring from a Draketooth family member is now simply the easiest way of explaining how she got it.

Good find!
Tough I doubt that the order will now put a ring of true seeing on each finger.

By the way - how many magic rings can you wear? In D&D computer games it's 2 rings of course, but what about p&p? Also, can you wear rings on your feet, or in a rather unpleasant position as alluded to in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html)? :smalleek:

I believe it's still limited to two, barring (epic?) feats that allow you to wear more.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm

[Alleran]

I believe it's still limited to two, barring (epic?) feats that allow you to wear more.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm
There's an Eberron feat that allows you to wear more than that, and I believe you can also have rings (or other items) that don't take up a body slot at the price of costing twice as much to make. You could potentially have dozens of rings, with enough finger space and money.

[Spacewolf]

Yep. Penelope getting such a ring from a Draketooth family member is now simply the easiest way of explaining how she got it.

Good find!
Tough I doubt that the order will now put a ring of true seeing on each finger.

By the way - how many magic rings can you wear? In D&D computer games it's 2 rings of course, but what about p&p? Also, can you wear rings on your feet, or in a rather unpleasant position as alluded to in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0261.html)? :smalleek:

I always figured he was using it as a prince albert, since that would make sense for belkar. Although thats not exactly more pleasant