Will Save Optimization

[Mr. Anon Omys]

Hello playground.

What is the highest will save that can be obtained for a tenth level character? Use any non-homebrew, no other requirements. No real reason for the challenge, either, save for curiosity.

Thank you all in advance for any aid you give.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Paladin with Serenity. Make wisdom your best stat. I mean, really go all out with it. Make an archer paladin with the Zen Archery feat if you have to because of a low con making you a bad melee combatant.

At level 1, with lesser aasimar, you can have 20 wisdom. That's +5 on will saves. At level 3, you get Serenity, giving you +11 total. Get Iron Will, Indomitable Soul, a Cloak of Resistance, and a Periapt of Wisdom. Of course, with Indomitable Soul, you don't have enough feats for a good mounted archer with Zen Archery, so it's not really practical. Maybe ditch lesser aasimar for human and get an extra feat, which you very much need to get your archery tactics online earlier.

[tyckspoon]

Do you want just highest Will save, or are you interested in having a high Will save on an otherwise functional character as well? Because you can abuse the heck out of multiclassing to get +2/level (be a Bard/Cleric/Druid/Sorcer/Wizard/Monk/Beguiler/Dragon Shaman/Duskblade/Knight.. and that's just the Core+PHB2 base classes with good Will saves) but the resulting character won't be any good at anything other than making Will saves.

For more functional characters.. hmm.. be a lower-ECL monstrous race/abuse templates to get a really high Constitution (it's one of the easier stats to pump this way), take Endurance -> Steadfast Determination, apply Con mod to your Will save. Look into Deepwarden or Fist of the Forest to make it your AC stat as well.

[Psyren]

Don't forget Empty Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/emptyMind.htm) - fully-augmented at level 10 can get you +6 untyped to Will.

A Resolved Psicrystal will get you another +2 untyped.

Enigma Helm soulmeld gets you +1 enhancement to Will/essentia, and Cerulean Will gets you +1 insight to Will/essentia.

[gbprime]

Yeah, pretty much any Wisdom caster (or CHA caster with Force of Personality feat) that has three classes and/or PrC's is going to be pretty stacked for Will Save.

Even an un-optimized Mystic Theurge (Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / MT 4) is going to have a base will save of +10 and she's going to add something like 24 wisdom (after WIS enhancement item) to that for a +17 overall. Throw in a cloak of resistance and you're looking at a +19 minimum.

You can go higher, of course, but it takes work. And there are a few PrC's and feats that allow you to re-roll failed saves or will saves or try again the following round if you want to go whole hog with it.

[Cespenar]

Paladin 2, Marshal 1 and Force of Personality, combined, gives you +cha to will saves three times. Maybe it can help.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Let's do this without making the character completely worthless offensively:

Middle-Age Human, Cloistered Cleric 2/ Human Paragon 3/ Divine Oracle 2/ Prestige Paladin 3
Your domains are actually completely open. Charm can give you +4 Cha for 1 minute per day, but I wouldn't bother. Your Knowledge domain should be traded for Knowledge Devotion.
Detached and Plucky traits; Two flaws (anything but weak-willed).
Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole; Skill Focus (Knowledge: Religion) via the Frog God's Fane.
Bullheaded, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, Practiced Spellcaster, Mounted Combat; Extra Turning and Craft Rod or Power Attack and Leap Attack.

Starting stats: Str 11, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 9, Wis 17, Cha 15
Middle-Age and levels: Str 10, Dex 9, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 22, Cha 16

Cast Greater Resistance or DMM: Persistent Nightshield every day for a +3 Resistance bonus. DMM: Persist Divine Power, Divine Favor, and Mass Lesser Vigor are highly recommended.

Two pieces of the Five Virtues item set (MIC).

Will save:
+10 base
+6 Wis
+3 Cha
+3 Resistance
+1 Detached
+1 Plucky
+2 Bullheaded
+2 Iron Will
+1 Morale
= +29 total Will save bonus all day long.

With 8th level Cleric spellcasting at caster level 10, DMM: Persist Divine Power with Paladin weapon/armor proficiencies, Uncanny Dodge, Knowledge Devotion, etc.

[Suddo]

The question almost becomes can you beat:
18 Wisdom
+2 Wisdom Race (Lesser Aasimar)
10 Levels of casters with +2 Will

2 Paladin (with at least 18 Char unbuff) gives you +4 and allows you to get more from being buffed.

I'm pretty sure there's a trait that can increase your by +1 or +2.

Then spend Feats on things like:
Iron Will (Standard +2 Will save)
I think there's an apprentice that gives +2
And such. At worse you get things that give +1 to Will.
If you have 18 or more Con Endurance + Steadfast Determination becomes viable as a chain before that its not as good as a +2.
So:
Lesser Aasimar (+2 Wis, +2Cha)
32 Point Buy:
18 Wis
18 Cha
8 Everything else
Paladin of Freedom 2 / Sorc 1 / Wizard 1 / Favored Soul 1 / Cleric 1 / Wu-Jen 1 / Bard 1 / Duskblade 1 / Beguiler 1
Flaw: Iron Will (+2)
Flaw: Apprentice (Philocifer) (I think its +2)
Level 1: Heroic Luck (+1)
Level 3:
Level 6:
Wu-Jen 1: Heighten Spell
Level 9:

I'm away from my books. There are probably 3 feats. Though if you want something a little better:
Paladin of Freedom 2 / Sorc 1 / Cleric 1 / Rainbow Servant 1 / Dweomkeeper (Online version) / Any 4 of the following (that don't need feats)

Mage of the Arcane Order: Skill Focus (Knowledge Arcane)
Fatespinner
Mindbender
Master Specialist
Loremaster
Alienist
Geometer
Geomancer
Incantrix
Archmage
Guild Wizard of Waterdeep (Magic of Faerun)
Flaw: Earth Spell
Flaw: Earth Sense
Level 1: Heighten Spell
Level 3: Sanctuary Spell
Level 6: Iron Will (+2 Will)
Level 9: Heroic Luck (+1 Will)
This will give you Almost as much Will but with decent spells.

[Psyren]

Squeeze the psicrystal in there for +2 more untyped.

Or - take Force of Will so you can make Will saves in place of fort/reflex. (Useful in high-psionics campaigns.)

[Kuulvheysoon]

For more functional characters.. hmm.. be a lower-ECL monstrous race/abuse templates to get a really high Constitution (it's one of the easier stats to pump this way), take Endurance -> Steadfast Determination, apply Con mod to your Will save. Look into Deepwarden or Fist of the Forest to make it your AC stat as well.

This.

It saved my friend's frostblood orc FB's terrible Will save.

[Person_Man]

Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver (Tome of Battle) allows you to replace a Will Save with a Concentration checks as an Immediate Action. Skill checks of any kind are fairly easy to boost, although the Immediate Action limits it to one per round.

Deformity (Madness): You take a -4 penalty to your Wisdom, but gain immunity to mind-affecting effects (which is pretty much 90% of Will Saves). Once per minute you can add 1/2 your character level to any Will Save. Alternatively there's Insane Defiance: As an Immediate Action when you are targeted by a Mind Affecting spell or spell like ability, you can take a point of Wis damage to redirect it to another target. Both in Elder Evils.

Chosen of Evil: As an Immediate Action take a point of Con damage to gain an Insight bonus equal to the number of Vile feats you have (including this one) to any attack, Saving Throw, ability check, or Skill check. Although this doesn't seem like much, some of the Vile feats are quite strong, so getting 3+ of them and then picking up Chosen of Evil to get a floating +4 or higher bonus is a fairly good idea for an Incarnate or Binder (who can easily repair the Con damage). Elder Evils.

Pious Defiance: Burn a turn/rebuke use as an Immediate Action to gain 1/2 your class level to your Will Save. Fiendish Codex II, pg 85.

Empyreal armor or shield enhancement: You can transfer your enhancement bonus to AC to be a sacred bonus to Saves. Although adding this to a +5 shield to get a bonus to your Saves would be twice as expensive as the same bonus from a Cloak of Resistance, it’s noteworthy in that the bonuses stack. So for a grand total of 75,000ish gp, you can get a +10 to all of your Saves. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 112.

There are a ton of X to Y (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) bonuses to Saves that you could cram in before ECL 10. It's not that difficult to get your Charisma to Saves two or three times over.

[Tyndmyr]

This still fails to even the lowest DC on a natural 1. You need Dumb Luck. Treat a natural 1 on a save as a natural 20.

Now, you need two luck feats to get there. I'd start with Survivor's Luck, which allows a free reroll of saves.

Grab another luck feat of your choice, and you have a fair bit of luck points to power them, and a statistically much better chance of surviving even the most insane of DCs.

[Douglas]

This still fails to even the lowest DC on a natural 1. You need Dumb Luck. Treat a natural 1 on a save as a natural 20.

Now, you need two luck feats to get there. I'd start with Survivor's Luck, which allows a free reroll of saves.

Grab another luck feat of your choice, and you have a fair bit of luck points to power them, and a statistically much better chance of surviving even the most insane of DCs.
In that vein, take a level of cleric and get the Pride domain - every natural 1 you ever roll on a save gets 1 free reroll (if the reroll comes up 1, tough luck).

[Tyndmyr]

In that vein, take a level of cleric and get the Pride domain - every natural 1 you ever roll on a save gets 1 free reroll (if the reroll comes up 1, tough luck).

Also an option, and a less resource intensive one, but automatically treating a nat 1 as a nat 20 is likely superior, especially if comboed with a reroll.

[Cespenar]

Hmm, wait. Paladin 2/Marshal 1/Warlock 1 with Force of Personality? Am I missing something?

18 Cha, +2 from Middle Aged, +2 from some race: +26 at level 4 before anything else.