[3.5] Dexterity to damage

[Gullara]

Alright, so I've been fiddling with a character idea, and I've run into a snag. That being that there are rather limited ways to apply Dex to damage rather than (or in addition to) Str.

The two I have been informed of and found are the Shadow Blade feat from Tome of Battle or the Hit and Run alternate fighter feature from Drow of the Underdark. Shadow Blade seems to be the best choice, but if I do use this in a game in the future there's a chance that the DM may not be all that fond of ToB. Then there's the rather limited weapons that the feat works with, but that's a lesser concern. Hit and Run on the other hand relies on your opponent being flatfooted, and to be honest, I'm not sure how reliable that is. I'm a rather new player.

So, I was wondering if there are any other good means of applying Dex to damage. The lower the level that you can acquire it the better. For reference, the overall character idea is a rogue(maybe) going into dervish. I have other ideas, but that's the base. I'm thinking that Int or Cha to danage might have potential as well, but I'm not sure.

And as a quick aside, would the bonus stack from having both Hit and Run and Shadow Blade?

[Orsen]

Champion of Correlon Larthian (sp?) from Races of the Wild gives dex to damage, but it's not an easy entry. There's a lot of feat suck, especially for a rogue and you won't get it until 9th level even if you choose a full base attack bonus class. On top of that you'd have to be an elf, which I'm not saying is bad (except it is kinda bad), but you may already have choosen a different race. I wouldn't mention it but you've already covered the one other way I knew about.
As far as int to damage you can get that from three levels of the swash buckler class.
I also suggest this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) and referring to it for any future similar questions. It's one of the best resources I've ever seen.

[hydraa]

Crossbow sniper

[Gullara]

Unfortunately Crossbow Sniper won't work because I'd be ideally using dual scimitars.

*low whistle* Yeah, those are some steep requirements for that PrC. That won't work. Thanks for the link to that thread though. That'll help a lot. *bookmarks*

[Zombulian]

Well on the flatfooting problem, I just happen to have THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186283)!

[bassmasterginga]

Unfortunately Crossbow Sniper won't work because I'd be ideally using dual scimitars.

never heard of that one b4. might need to be a ranger for the panther companion if u cant get the figurine.

[Big Fau]

Two scimitars (PHB), or Double Scimitars (Eberron)? Because one is significantly easier to use with TWFing, and the other is a bad investment (also, PGtE has this really awesome PrC for the Double Scimitar called Revenant Blade).

[Gullara]

Well on the flatfooting problem, I just happen to have THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186283)!

Hm, this should be useful. Perhaps Invisible Blade... *thinks*


never heard of that one b4. might need to be a ranger for the panther companion if u cant get the figurine.

:smalltongue: Yes, yes, I know. I just wanted to do it purely because Dervish lets you use them as light weapons, and two of them for more attacks. I'd change if I had to.


Two scimitars (PHB), or Double Scimitars (Eberron)? Because one is significantly easier to use with TWFing, and the other is a bad investment (also, PGtE has this really awesome PrC for the Double Scimitar called Revenant Blade).

Ah, my mistake. I mean a scimitar (PHB) in each hand. I think I vaguely recall seeing the Double Scimitars once before... Vaguely.

[Psyren]

Honestly, I'd grab x-bow sniper anyway. You won't be in melee every single fight; having a ranged weapon as a backup is a very good idea.

[Voyager_I]

Honestly, I'd grab x-bow sniper anyway. You won't be in melee every single fight; having a ranged weapon as a backup is a very good idea.

Damned flying everythings.

[Hunter Killer]

Getting opponents flat-footed is really not all that hard with proper planning, as the Flat-Footing compendium shows. If you have casters in the party, they can even do if FOR you!

Honestly, my favorite way to get Dex to Damage is Hit-and-Run fighter combined with a method of Invisibility (Ring of Greater Invisibility if you can get it). A two-level dip into Fighter never hurts melee characters.

[Gullara]

Honestly, I'd grab x-bow sniper anyway. You won't be in melee every single fight; having a ranged weapon as a backup is a very good idea.

*nodnod* True enough. Just want to make sure I'm not feat starved or anything. I'll keep it in mind.

[deuxhero]

You can't. Scimitars aren't light weapons or explicitly able to be used with weapon finesse

[Zaranthan]

You can't. Scimitars aren't light weapons or explicitly able to be used with weapon finesse

Weapon Finesse is Dex to HIT, not Dex to DAMAGE.

[Fineous Orlon]

You can't. Scimitars aren't light weapons or explicitly able to be used with weapon finesse

Dervish takes care of that, explicitly.

[Gullara]

You can't. Scimitars aren't light weapons or explicitly able to be used with weapon finesse

Well...


Dervish takes care of that, explicitly.

What he said. That's why I wanted to do it rather than use some other light weapon. Aka, it's me being a little silly. I figure if I can, I'd might as well, but I won't let it hold me back from using other options.

[deuxhero]

Then he anwsered your question.

[Venger]

Champion of Correlon Larthian (sp?) from Races of the Wild gives dex to damage, but it's not an easy entry. There's a lot of feat suck, especially for a rogue and you won't get it until 9th level even if you choose a full base attack bonus class. On top of that you'd have to be an elf, which I'm not saying is bad (except it is kinda bad), but you may already have choosen a different race. I wouldn't mention it but you've already covered the one other way I knew about.
As far as int to damage you can get that from three levels of the swash buckler class.
I also suggest this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) and referring to it for any future similar questions. It's one of the best resources I've ever seen.

a 1 level dip in ruathar (contrasting, the easiest to qualify for prc in the game, being difficult not to qualify for at level 6+ will let you count as an elf without actually having to play an elf since they suck, especially for melee fighters, even of the dex variety .

while champion of Corellon Larethian (this is how it's spelled. don't feel bad, I can't spell it without looking it up either) isn't very interesting, it is pretty solid, offering d10s, full BA, good fort and wlll, and despite 2 points/lvl, has a pretty nice array of class skills. it seems to think that armor's relevant, but you can mostly ignore that. the reason you're here is the feats. while the feat tax of dodge,combat expertise, ad mounted combat is unreasonably high, especially in keeping with the other stuff (suck it up and dip ftr 2 for MWP and heavy armor proficiency)

the prereqs when broken down individually aren't that bad, and as much as I dislike the elves' characterisation in the D&D splats, they do have the right POV here in taking the long view.

champ of CL is from RotW, so look there for your salvation. it's no secret that dodge sucks, so take expeditious dodge, also in RotW instead. it explicitly counts as dodge for stuff that requires dodge (special ability, feat, prc) and since you're kind of set up to be a mounted charger type (charging with longswords? derp) you're pretty much guaranteed to move the 40ft it takes to keep this active. pretend you're a scout and have to keep moving to stay relevant

the bonus feats are weird in that they have to be fighter feats and must require one of your prereq feats as a prereq feat. this is annoying at first, but with 4 feats throughout the class, this is enough to complete the spring attack/whirlwind attack chain (if you're into that) or the spirited charge chain (since it kind of pigeonholes you into riding on stuff and leaves you with nothing to do)

since you wanna be dexbased, I somehow don't think playing an ubercharger suits you. am I wrong? if so, champ of CL may be worth a look. while the class isn't unsalvagable, it's garbage for dips. taking 2 levels for dex to damage (against SA-able targets only, a big limit at mid to high levels) is a terrible misapplication of resources since you're wasting 3 feats for just a tiny bit of damage bonus. stay in at least long enough to complete one of the usually subpar fighter chains, till level 4 or 7 depending on its length. this way you're "spending" 3 feats to get 2 or 3 feats, which depending on what you pick could be a very potent exchange.

what exactly is your character? if you have a good wisdom, take insightful attack from boed (an exalted feat, so your character needs to be good aligned. not sure if that will be a problem. no there's no reason why, there's nothing particularly good (alignment) about this. it is boed after all) it lets you use wis on attack rolls instead of str like weapon finesse. with a 2 level monk dip (evasion's good for someone who enjoys dex, so are 2 free bonus feats and wis to AC) don't forget to poke around the different monk schools, some of their chains are pretty neat

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm

[Averis Vol]

i'm not sure if its an allowed book seeing as its 3E but in A&EG there's a specific weapon called sword of graceful strikes (or something close to that) that gives you dex to damage instead of str. two things though 1) its 70kish, so expensive expensive 2) its base form is a shortsword, this could be easy to deal with if you have a flexible DM i guess, i had it made into a pair of daggers on a rogue i made once. hope this helps.

[Heliomance]

a 1 level dip in ruathar (contrasting, the easiest to qualify for prc in the game, being difficult not to qualify for at level 6+ will let you count as an elf without actually having to play an elf since they suck, especially for melee fighters, even of the dex variety .

No it doesn't. Ruathar is about being an elf-friend, yes, but it doesn't make you count as an elf in the same way Stoneblessed does for gnomes, dwarves and goliaths.

1st level gets you a seret passphrase to make elves friendly towards you, and a magic item. Second level gets you low light vision and a bonus to search, spot and listen. 3rd level you get a bonus to attacks and saves while under the night sky, and your lifespan increases. That's all.

[Saph]

Dervish Dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) from Pathfinder lets you add Dex to attack/damage, but it's one-handed only. Pity, sounds like it'd be perfect otherwise!

[Venger]

No it doesn't. Ruathar is about being an elf-friend, yes, but it doesn't make you count as an elf in the same way Stoneblessed does for gnomes, dwarves and goliaths.

1st level gets you a seret passphrase to make elves friendly towards you, and a magic item. Second level gets you low light vision and a bonus to search, spot and listen. 3rd level you get a bonus to attacks and saves while under the night sky, and your lifespan increases. That's all.

Whoops! You're right. Thanks for the correction, I was remembering it wrong. It seems a little weird that since you're already so much like an elf that you don't count as an elf for elf-only prcs (which is hardly game-breaking, there are only a few that I can think of) it's especially confusing since RotW was published a year after RoS, so it's not like a mechanic for letting one race count as another didn't exist.

[JadePhoenix]

Dervish Dance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat) from Pathfinder lets you add Dex to attack/damage, but it's one-handed only. Pity, sounds like it'd be perfect otherwise!

Pathfinder does have the finesse enchantment, though. Only a +1 equivalent, and adds Dex to damage.

[Rubik]

Isn't there a targeteer variant fighter in Dragon Magazine somewhere that gives you +Dex to damage?

[Averis Vol]

drow fighter gets dex to damage against flat footed foes. combine that with the darksong knight sub levels to get dancing feint and 5 levels in invisible blade can get you feint as a free action. combine that with surprising reposte and you can always get dex to damage. though that does involve only using dagger like weapons.