A Problem With My Tripper Build [3.5]

[kulosle]

So I've been working on a tripper build for the fun of it and I've come upon two problems.

The little problem is that I want to get to colossal size because it jumps 10ft in reach which means 20 for with a reach weapon. The best way I have found of doing this is Goliath half Minotaur barbarian psywarrior so you start out as large size, rage and you become huge and then an augmented expansion makes you colossal. The only issue with this is that now I don't qualify for the aberration blooded feat, must be humanoid, so I can get inhuman reach. Which my DM ruled make you qualify for extended reach. So no matter which way I go I loos out on 10ft of reach. Is there a way to get both?

The other problem, and it's a problem I imagine must have been addressed before I just can't seem to find a discussion of it anywhere, is that making yourself larger lowers your dex which lowers your number of AoO which you need as much as you can get. Did everyone just pump a lot of resources into dex, then how did you avoid being MAD, or is there another solution I don't know of?

[Keld Denar]

Mountain Rage doesn't make you 1 size larger...it makes you large. Since you are already large due to Half Mino (uggg), it would have no effect on you.

[Killer Angel]

try to convince your DM to introduce the PF feat lunge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/lunge-combat---final).

[Rejusu]

So I've been working on a tripper build for the fun of it and I've come upon two problems.

The little problem is that I want to get to colossal size because it jumps 10ft in reach which means 20 for with a reach weapon. The best way I have found of doing this is Goliath half Minotaur barbarian psywarrior so you start out as large size, rage and you become huge and then an augmented expansion makes you colossal. The only issue with this is that now I don't qualify for the aberration blooded feat, must be humanoid, so I can get inhuman reach. Which my DM ruled make you qualify for extended reach. So no matter which way I go I loos out on 10ft of reach. Is there a way to get both?

Drop the Barbarian as already noted it's not useful. Also you don't need the rage enlarge to begin with. An augmented expansion moves you up two size categories and you're already large thanks to half minotaur. This means a regular expansion would bring you to Huge and an augmented one would take you to colossal. I'm not sure there's an easy way to reach gargantuan though.

HOWEVER you do have powerful build from Goliath so you do gain the bonuses of being one size category larger when it's beneficial, ie for the purposes of trip checks. And you can also use weapons designed for characters one size category larger without penalty. No extra reach, but being able to count as gargantuan is something at least. Though if you're going Psy-war I'd consider swapping Goliath out for half-giant, you can still qualify for the template with it.

If you're okay with losing powerful build you could always find a large size aberration to use as your race. After all with goliath/HG and half-minotaur you're already taking a +3 LA so I'm sure there's something with a similar level adjust that has the type and size you want. Otherwise you'll probably have to pick between the extra reach and the increased size, can't really have both.


The other problem, and it's a problem I imagine must have been addressed before I just can't seem to find a discussion of it anywhere, is that making yourself larger lowers your dex which lowers your number of AoO which you need as much as you can get. Did everyone just pump a lot of resources into dex, then how did you avoid being MAD, or is there another solution I don't know of?

There's no solution to this I know of. There's a cumulative -2 Dex penalty for each size category you increase. So basically 1 less AoO with Combat reflexes per size category. If you're going for extra reach and power through expansion you basically have to give up going the combat reflexes route. If you want to base yourself around AoO's then you're better off going a Monk/Psy warr build with Monastic training (see the psychic warrior handbook). I just built a similar kind of character to what you're doing but without the template. Gone for a Half-Giant Psy warr with spiked chain proficiency.

But yeah there's no way to avoid it without being very MAD. You'd need a Dex of +3 at your base size to make Combat reflexes viable because an augmented expansion will bring it down to +1. Even then I'd say it isn't really worth it unless you have a Dex of +4 (for 2 extra AoO's when expanded) which means having an 18 in Dex at your base size.

I mean if you were prepared to go heavy Dex you could get weapon finesse for the spiked chain. As you get to choose whether you apply your Dex or not (according to the RAW of weapon finesse) you could just use your Dex when it's higher and switch to your strength when it overtakes it. But it's a very MAD way to do things, and expansion would continually nerf you. Really it's not worth it, a Psy War already requires great strength, a 16 in Wis for max level powers (and bonus PP, which they really need), a 13 in int if you're going combat expertise (which is a requirement for a tripper), and good constitution to make up for their kind of meh hit die.

If you want to go for tons of reach then grab a spiked chain and go for combat expertise, improved trip and knock down. Sure you get only one AoO per round. But you get a free trip whenever you deal 10+ damage and you get a free attack whenever you trip someone.

If you want to go for an AoO'er then go for a dex heavy build with monk and drop expansion altogether.

Or take a third option. There's a second level Psy Warr power called Prowess that can be manifested as an immediate action and gives you an extra AoO when an enemy provokes one. So that can be used to gain an extra AoO a round even without combat reflexes and a high dex. But be warned it'll eat your power points.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Realistically, most people skip the insane character sizes because you probably won't fit into a dungeon like that anyway. Inhuman Reach + Spiked Chain on a Large character threatens/occupies a 70-ft. diameter circle. You're often not going to find a larger battleground than that, and when you do it's going to be so much larger that any more reach won't really matter.

For the Dex reduction problem, Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) 5 adds your Wis bonus to your number of AoOs/round.

[Rejusu]

Realistically, most people skip the insane character sizes because you probably won't fit into a dungeon like that anyway. Inhuman Reach + Spiked Chain on a Large character threatens/occupies a 70-ft. diameter circle. You're often not going to find a larger battleground than that, and when you do it's going to be so much larger that any more reach won't really matter.

For the Dex reduction problem, Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) 5 adds your Wis bonus to your number of AoOs/round.

I really don't rate psychic weapon master highly. To get the wisdom based combat reflexes you have to lose 3 manifester levels, have combat reflexes ALREADY (to gain the wisdom bonus), and it has SIX(!) feats as prerequisites. Worst of all the prereq feats don't include the ones you'd want for a tripping build anyway (Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Knock-Down) and instead include pretty meh feats like dodge. Short of gaining bonus feats through race and flaws this means you have to spend your initial six feats fulfilling the prereqs. Then it takes another five levels just to get the wis based combat reflexes.

Really just not worthwhile for a few extra AoO's a round.