Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread

[Tanuki Tales]

Welcome Ladies and Gentleman to the Giant in the Playground Pathfinder Grab Bag competition chat thread. The purpose of this thread is to house any questions, comments or discussions concerning the contest itself and/or the entries for this month's festivities.

As the title denotes, this is a contest exclusively for Pathfinder material. If you are more of a fan of Dungeons and Dragons (specifically the 3.X editions), please check out one of these wonderful contests:

Base Class Challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181782)
GitP Prestige Class Contest
New Monster Competition

This month's contest is...


Call of a Hero






Previous Competitions
Creepy Crawlers
Path to Castle Ravenloft
Playgrounders Assemble!
A Homebrew by any other Name...
Semper Fi! Do or Die!
A Day in the Life
Saturday Morning Nostalgia
Fear Itself
On the Origins of Species
Have a Holly, Jolly Brewmas!
Oaths and Resolutions
Homebrew! I choose you!
Of Dragons and Dungeons
Spell it Out for Us
Gamer's Gambit
Once More; with Feeling!

[Tanuki Tales]

Past Entries Archive


Base Classes

{table=head]Name|Creator|Competition|Notes
Contractor 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14625290&postcount=11)Contractor 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14625297&postcount=12)Contractor 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14625305&postcount=13)Contractor 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14625317&postcount=14)|Milo v3|PGBC XI: Oaths and Resolutions|First Place Winner
Duel Summoner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14648714&postcount=7)|Morph Bark|PGBC XII: Homebrew! I choose you!|Incomplete
Living Hive (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14052276&postcount=10)|Milo v3|PGBC VIII: Fear Itself|First Place Winner
Monster Trainer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14831937&postcount=17)|Xammux|PGBC XII: Homebrew! I choose you!|First Place Winner
Necro-Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13334987&postcount=6)|masterstalker2|PGBC IV: A Homebrew by any other Name...|Incomplete
Olympian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13322347&postcount=11)|Midwoka|PGBC III: Playgrounders Assemble|First Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Pact Bound Warrior 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14516364&postcount=8) Pact Bound Warrior 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14622779&postcount=10)|DawnbringerSO|PGBC XI: Oaths and Resolutions|Second Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Pokemaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14647387&postcount=6)|Kane0|PGBC XII: Homebrew! I choose you!|Incomplete
Sanguine Inquisitor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12992060&postcount=6)|Milo v3|PGBC II: The Path to Castle Ravenloft|First Place Winner
The Shaman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14292359&postcount=10)|tallonRook|PGBC IX: On the Origins of Species|First Place Winner
Spider Blood Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12847692&postcount=10)|Milo v3|PGBC I: Creepy Crawlers|First Place Winner
Sumran Warcaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13487257&postcount=5)|Milo v3|PGBC V: Semper Fi! Do or Die!|Third Place Winner
Swarmlord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12831493&postcount=7)|Tarvon000|PGBC I: Creepy Crawlers|-
Swift Kinetic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13824168&postcount=6)|Milo v3|PGBC VII: Saturday Morning Nostalgia|-
Tainted Scion of Venom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13160906&postcount=6)|Milo v3|PGBC III: Playgrounders Assemble|Second Place Winner; counterpart to Spider Blood Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12847692&postcount=10)
Titan of Steel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13203630&postcount=8)|masterstalker2|PGBC III: Playgrounders Assemble|Incomplete
Unamed Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14658214&postcount=9)|4th Number|PGBC XII: Homebrew! I choose you!|Incomplete[/table]

Monsters

{table=head]Name|Creator|Competition|Notes
Atavist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14327786&postcount=12)|grimgrin|PGBC IX: On the Origins of Species|Third Place Winner and Judge's Choice
Forgotten Memory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14895589&postcount=8)|SamBurke|PGBC XIII: Of Dragons and Dungeons|First Place Winner
Grey Men (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13152036&postcount=10)|TARDIS|PGBC II: The Path to Castle Ravenloft|Second Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Happy Hulk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14819284&postcount=6)|Inuyasha|PGBC XIII: Of Dragons and Dungeons|Second Place Winner
Hollowed Spirit (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14654170&postcount=8)|Milo v3|PGBC XII: Homebrew! I choose you!|Incomplete
Myrmaton (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13619178&postcount=9)|Midwoka|PGBC V: Semper Fi! Do or Die!|Second Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Present Surprise (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14311410&postcount=6)|ShadowFireLance|PGBC X: Have a Holly, Jolly Brewmas!|Incomplete
Quirksteed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14219333&postcount=7)|Kane0|PGBC IX: On the Origins of Species|Second Place Winner, Most Likely to See Play and Most Unique Entry
Steelix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14682944&postcount=10)|DawnbringerSO|PGBC XII: Homebrew! I choose you!|Second Place Winner
Wasplings (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13167074&postcount=7)|Golden Ladybug|PGBC III: Playgrounders Assemble!|Third Place Winner
[/table]

Prestige Classes

{table=head]Name|Creator|Competition|Notes
Alchemical Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13929255&postcount=8)|Warpwolf16|PGBC VII: Saturday Morning Nostalgia|-
Axiopact (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14466295&postcount=6)|Kane0|PGBC XI: Oaths and Resolutions|Runner Up and Most Unique Entry
Defender of the North (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14421501&postcount=10)|Razanir|PGBC X: Have a Holly, Jolly Brewmas!|Second Place Winner
Fear Eater (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14049513&postcount=9)|Mathias1313|PGBC VIII: Fear Itself|Invalidated
Fearmonger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14007101&postcount=7)|Kane0|PGBC VIII: Fear Itself|Second Place Winner
The Iron Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13984505&postcount=10)|ErrantX|PGBC VII: Saturday Morning Nostalgia|First Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Khan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13430201&postcount=8)|Kon Lesh|PGBC IV: A Homebrew by any other Name...|Second Place Winner
Legion of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13620033&postcount=10)|Realms of Chaos|PGBC V: Semper Fi! Do or Die!|First Place Winner
Pack Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12826225&postcount=6)|BelGareth|PGBC I: Creepy Crawlers|-
Paranormal Seeker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13085266&postcount=8)|Golden Ladybug|PGBC II: The Path to Castle Ravenloft|Third Place Winner
Psionic Dancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14713114&postcount=12)|Razanir|PGBC XII: Homebrew! I choose you!|Incomplete
Returner of Old (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14213120&postcount=6)|Milo v3|PGBC IX: On the Origins of Species|Incomplete
Rocket Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13976471&postcount=9)|Midwoka|PGBC VII: Saturday Morning Nostalgia|Second Place Winner
Solarsworn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14490020&postcount=7)|4th Number|PGBC XI: Oaths and Resolutions|Third Place Winner and Judge's Choice
Uncontrollable Titan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13824920&postcount=7)|devilingreye|PGBC VII: Saturday Morning Nostalgia|Third Place Winner
Winter Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14346829&postcount=7)|4th Number|PGBC X: Have a Holly, Jolly Brewmas!|First Place Winner, Most Likely to See Play, Most Unique Entry, Judge's Choice
Worm-Eaten Collective (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12835298&postcount=8)|Golden Ladybug|PGBC I: Creepy Crawlers|Third Place Winner[/table]

Races

{table=head]Name|Creator|Competition|Notes
Bastinoi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12877667&postcount=11)|Mulletmanalive|PGBC I: Creepy Crawlers|-
Gatorfolk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13566642&postcount=7)|Warpwolf16|PGBC V: Semper Fi! Do or Die!|-
Kithkin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13729868&postcount=4)|TARDIS|PGBC VI: A Day in the Life|-
Kylanth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13656041&postcount=3)|Milo v3|PGBC VI: A Day in the Life|Second Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Lagi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13854988&postcount=10)|Midwoka|PGBC VI: A Day in the Life|First Place Winner
Midwokans (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13527873&postcount=11)|Midwoka|PGBC IV: A Homebrew by any other Name...|First Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Mutant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13792477&postcount=7)|Warpwolf16|PGBC VI: A Day in the Life|-
Nafairi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13778776&postcount=5)|Deviston|PGBC VI: A Day in the Life|Third Place Winner
Rhox (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13792321&postcount=6)|DawnbringerSO|PGBC VI: A Day in the Life|-
Sainesti (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14437685&postcount=12)|Milo v3|PGBC X: Have a Holly, Jolly Brewmas!|Third Place Winner
Theg (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12839824&postcount=9)|Kane0|PGBC I: Creepy Crawlers|Second Place Winner and Most Likely to See Play
Warp Wolves (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13355181&postcount=7)|Warpwolf16|PGBC IV: A Homebrew by any other Name...|Third Place Winner[/table]

[Tanuki Tales]

Past Entries Archive 2

[Tanuki Tales]

And with that, the contest is now completely set up and ready to run!

I'm trying something new and, as far as I'm aware, something that hasn't been attempted by one of these contests before. Hopefully it will turn out quite splendidly and won't end up crashing and burning entirely! :smallbiggrin:

So let the creative juices flow for the beginning of March everyone!

[Bearpunch]

I think I will join this. I'm thinking I will develop an insectile hive-mind race, mostly for the roleplaying challenge. That, and I have the most experience with races.

[Tanuki Tales]

I think I will join this. I'm thinking I will develop an insectile hive-mind race, mostly for the roleplaying challenge. That, and I have the most experience with races.

Sounds neat! I can't wait to see your entry. :smallbiggrin:

[Golden Ladybug]

I'll throw my hat into the ring; I was just going to watch until I read over it and got hit by inspiration for a cool bug race.

I'll figure out the Base Class and PrC as I go along.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll throw my hat into the ring; I was just going to watch until I read over it and got hit by inspiration for a cool bug race.

I'll figure out the Base Class and PrC as I go along.

Take your time. There's a whole month in this thing to go and every entry will be a hidden treasure in itself. :smallsmile:

Edit:

Wait... *just fully read what you wrote*

You do know that you're entering a Base class or a Prestige class or a Monster or a Race, not all of them or any combination, right?

[Golden Ladybug]

No, no I did not. I was reading it and thinking that the challenge was designing a trio of Base Class, PrC and Race/Monster.

Well, better scrap my first idea then and think of something that stands on its own :smallbiggrin:

[Tanuki Tales]

No, no I did not. I was reading it and thinking that the challenge was designing a trio of Base Class, PrC and Race/Monster.

Well, better scrap my first idea then and think of something that stands on its own :smallbiggrin:

Now there's a neat idea. *squirrels it away for later*

Anyways, yeah, sorry for the confusion! I've updated that rule so hopefully it doesn't happen to anyone else. :smallredface:

[Tarvon000]

I'm in. Can I make something both hive mind- and swarm-related?

[Curious]

All right, you've got my interest. I'll see what I can come up with.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm in. Can I make something both hive mind- and swarm-related?

Sure! For the themes you don't have to pick only one, those are just the guiding principles for the overarching theme.

A swarm of Badgerguins is just as valid an entry as a race of constructs who are linked in a Hive Mind. Neither one of those are anthropods but that's ok, these themes are meant to allow a cornucopia of potential entries that aren't tethered to a iron-cast mold. Out of anything I see that as the strength of the set up of my contest.

@Curious: Huzzah!

[BelGareth]

Got a good idea for a Druid Prc that summons a hoard of squirrels gaining a hive mind with them and becoming one with a Squirrel!

Should be fun to do.

[Golden Ladybug]

Got a good idea for a Druid Prc that summons a hoard of squirrels gaining a hive mind with them and becoming one with a Squirrel!

Should be fun to do.

More Squirrel than you could possibly imagine :smallcool:

[Kane0]

Can I suggest that any attempt to emulate the Geth/Legion from Mass Effect be vetoed? Just cause it was the first thing to come to mind is all...

Edit: If not then I guess ill make one :smallbiggrin:

[Tanuki Tales]

Can I suggest that any attempt to emulate the Geth/Legion from Mass Effect be vetoed? Just cause it was the first thing to come to mind is all...

Edit: If not then I guess ill make one :smallbiggrin:

Heh.

How many more day is it till launch?

As much as I want Grunt and Jack back (because he's my Bro and she's my tender puppy in need of gentle care) and as much as I'd love Wrex and Garrus back (miss my old Bro Squad from ME1), I'd like to see Legion back on your crew. I never actually got the chance to do anything with him since if I wanted a perfect game I'd need to recruit and do his mission after I had finished the rest of the game.

[Kane0]

Well its 6 days to go here in Australia, so im past even the "I cant wait" stage. :smallbiggrin:

I went back at the beggining of feb for the explicit purpose of making a perfect game with all survivors to use in ME3, which i preordered last year back in like June :smallamused:

But anyway I may end up making a 'Theg' humanoid species as a hats off to ME for this comp :smallcool:

[Tanuki Tales]

Well its 6 days to go here in Australia, so im past even the "I cant wait" stage. :smallbiggrin:

I went back at the beggining of feb for the explicit purpose of making a perfect game with all survivors to use in ME3, which i preordered last year back in like June :smallamused:

But anyway I may end up making a 'Theg' humanoid species as a hats off to ME for this comp :smallcool:

I look forward to your entry! =D

[BelGareth]

So pretty much done, just have to stat up the crazy squirrels for summon natures ally and fine tune/spell check etc the rest.

Hope you like it!

[Tanuki Tales]

So pretty much done, just have to stat up the crazy squirrels for summon natures ally and fine tune/spell check etc the rest.

Hope you like it!

I do! ^_^

Now the break down of what I found;


Special
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Table
You have it titled Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Class Features
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Wildshape
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Spontaneous Summoning
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Horde Empathy
You've got conflicting genders in the first sentence and call Pack Master "Pack Lord."

Eyes of the Horde
There shouldn't be an apostrophe in Eyes. You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. You might want to clear up the "perceives things" bit of that sentence to be more specific. You forgot the apostrophe for "Companion's" and you should probably change "vision" to "sensory modes" or something similar. Yes, Squirrels rely on sight but by the strictest sense you can only see things and nothing else.

Summon the Horde
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. And while the ability is poignant, I wonder if it would be out of line to just let the Pack Master become a swarm of squirrels in addition to its normal wildshaping options for this ability.

Power of the Pack
Should be "effective" not affective.

Many are One
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. There also shouldn't be an apostrophe in "Eyes". And what exactly does this ability do? It seems like a limited form of teleportation but really seems to have low utility as a later level ability. I mean, she jumps into her squirrel companion's body and then what? Does she still keep her spell casting?

One are Many
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. And I feel that the ship example limitation is a little silly. I think it would make more sense (especially as a capstone) to have the Pack Master either become a swarm and then the swarm needs to be killed or have the Pack Master dissolve into a certain amount of squirrels and then every one of those squirrels needs to be killed or the Pack Master will regenerate (like old school Vampires).

[BelGareth]

I do! ^_^

Now the break down of what I found;


Special
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Table
You have it titled Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Class Features
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Wildshape
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Spontaneous Summoning
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master.

Ah yes, I changed the name half way through and confusled myself.
Fixed


Horde Empathy
You've got conflicting genders in the first sentence and call Pack Master "Pack Lord."
Copypasta!
Fixed


Eyes of the Horde
There shouldn't be an apostrophe in Eyes. You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. You might want to clear up the "perceives things" bit of that sentence to be more specific. You forgot the apostrophe for "Companion's" and you should probably change "vision" to "sensory modes" or something similar. Yes, Squirrels rely on sight but by the strictest sense you can only see things and nothing else.
Added some clarifying text, the vision was specifically referencing the animals vision type (darkvison, lowlight etc.) but as animals all have lowlight I just added that specific type in the description.


Summon the Horde
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. And while the ability is poignant, I wonder if it would be out of line to just let the Pack Master become a swarm of squirrels in addition to its normal wildshaping options for this ability.
Ummm....it IS in addition to the regular wildshape.....Not sure what your getting at here.
Theres wildshape and then theres the limited use of Swarm Shape (max 3/day)


Power of the Pack
Should be "effective" not affective.
This always get's me, fixed.


Many are One
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. There also shouldn't be an apostrophe in "Eyes". And what exactly does this ability do? It seems like a limited form of teleportation but really seems to have low utility as a later level ability. I mean, she jumps into her squirrel companion's body and then what? Does she still keep her spell casting?

To answer I quote myself:

Many are One (Su): A Pack Master gains the ability to blur the lines between her body and the bodies of her Animal Companions, all are one to nature. As a full round action the Pack Master can choose an Animal Companion for which she can use the Eyes of the Horde ability on and switch bodies. If the Pack Master is not in the Wildshape form of a Squirrel she automatically activates her wildshape as a squirrel of the same size as she switches body with, if she is already in squirrel form she retains her shape. If the Pack Master has no Wildshape uses left she cannot switch bodies.

So, the two creatures swap places, and to do so the Pack Master must be in Squirrel form via Wildshape, so all the restrictions of being in wildshape are in affect.
This is essentially Teleport at will(short ranged) as long as you're in squirrel form, while it loses some power at higher levels, you still retain the ability to get out of places when in a bind. Still, I think, a Great ability.


One are Many
You call the class Pack Lord instead of Pack Master. And I feel that the ship example limitation is a little silly. I think it would make more sense (especially as a capstone) to have the Pack Master either become a swarm and then the swarm needs to be killed or have the Pack Master dissolve into a certain amount of squirrels and then every one of those squirrels needs to be killed or the Pack Master will regenerate (like old school Vampires).
I just disagree with you on this one, I think this is a great ability, but not overpowering, great in specific circumstances. Having it break into a dozen tiny creatures would just drive players and DM's crazy keeping track of, having them disburse if they can, I think, is the best option.

Thanks for pointing everything out.

[Tarvon000]

Okay, so I want the base class I'm working on to get a hellwasp familiar, but there are no statistics for individual hellwasps. Can I make up statistics for them or would that not be allowed because I'd be creating both a class and a monster?

[Tanuki Tales]

Ummm....it IS in addition to the regular wildshape.....Not sure what your getting at here.
Theres wildshape and then theres the limited use of Swarm Shape (max 3/day)

I'm saying, open it up as an option for the regular wildshape. Like how Druids can end up choosing to become plants or elementals as they wildshape. As it is right now, a Druid 4/Pack Master 10 would be able to Wildshape 6/day and can "Swarm Shape" 3/day. Would there be any harm in just opening it up as an option for regular wildshape and keep the extra 3 uses as being only able to be used for "Swarm Shape"? You've got other class features that affect the Druid's normal abilities if they don't or do pick a squirrel so it could fall into that vein.

I'll have a comment about the entry for the class further down in this post.




So, the two creatures swap places, and to do so the Pack Master must be in Squirrel form via Wildshape, so all the restrictions of being in wildshape are in affect.
This is essentially Teleport at will(short ranged) as long as you're in squirrel form, while it loses some power at higher levels, you still retain the ability to get out of places when in a bind. Still, I think, a Great ability.

Well, that's not exactly how you worded it. The way you have it worded makes it sound like the Pack Master literally switches bodies with an animal companion; her mind enters its body and it enters her's. Which is why I asked what this exactly did and whether or not she could still cast spells. You should probably reword it so that the ability makes them "switch locations" or something similar.



I just disagree with you on this one, I think this is a great ability, but not overpowering, great in specific circumstances. Having it break into a dozen tiny creatures would just drive players and DM's crazy keeping track of, having them disburse if they can, I think, is the best option.

Then word it as such? Right now the ability basically works as:
Pack Master would die.
The Pack Master dissolves into a swarm of squirrels.
The ability checks to see if the Pack Master died in a "logical place".
If yes, the Pack Master survives and the squirrels reform as him/her in a place 1 mile away. The Pack Master is at 0 hp but stable.
If no, the Pack Master dies.

I just personally think it'd be more interesting and easier to deal with ability if the Pack Master did dissolve into an actual amount of squirrels and they all need to be killed to kill the Pack Master. As it is right now, it's up to the DM's discretion for both the ability to work and for the Pack Master to survive. I mean, that just feels like a "Track feat" kind of ability.


Now for what I mentioned higher up.

Generally Prestige classes can't be entered until level 6 or level 7. You can take this class at level 5, only requiring 4 levels of Druid to enter it. What made you decide on allowing an early entry?


Thanks for pointing everything out.

You're welcome. Always glad to help where I can.


Okay, so I want the base class I'm working on to get a hellwasp familiar, but there are no statistics for individual hellwasps. Can I make up statistics for them or would that not be allowed because I'd be creating both a class and a monster?

Berp, misread.

An individual hellwasp is too small to really be a statted creature (which is why you find it in swarm form). And they're mindless. Is there a reason you need the Hellwasp in particular instead of something new made for the class?

And in the case of your question, you're not statting the creature as a separate entry but as an accessory to an actual entry, so you're good.

[Tarvon000]

An individual hellwasp is too small to really be a statted creature (which is why you find it in swarm form). And they're mindless.

The hellwasp is a familiar. There are already both Diminutive familiars and familiars that would normally be mindless. And judging from the swarm's stats, an individual hellwasp would actually be the most powerful familiar yet, even if I remove its DR.


Is there a reason you need the Hellwasp in particular instead of something new made for the class?

It's mostly for flavor, but my current capstone is that the familiar turns into an entire hellwasp swarm.

[Tanuki Tales]

The hellwasp is a familiar. There are already both Diminutive familiars and familiars that would normally be mindless. And judging from the swarm's stats, an individual hellwasp would actually be the most powerful familiar yet, even if I remove its DR.

Right, I forgot that Ultimate Magic introduced vermin familiars. But I'm not seeing any familiars as being that small. The scorpion and house centipede are both Tiny.

Judging from the swarm's stats how? The swarm is made up of 5,000 individual wasps.

And how do you see a Hellwasp being more powerful than an Imp or Pseudo-Dragon or any of the improved familiars (which it would be contending with)?



It's mostly for flavor, but my current capstone is that the familiar turns into an entire hellwasp swarm.

Ah, then I'd suggest just statting up some kind of "Greater Hellwasp" to fit the bill.

[Tarvon000]

Right, I forgot that Ultimate Magic introduced vermin familiars. But I'm not seeing any familiars as being that small. The scorpion and house centipede are both Tiny.

It's true that none of the vermin familiars are Diminutive, but the bat and toad are.


Judging from the swarm's stats how? The swarm is made up of 5,000 individual wasps.

Each individual hellwasp has the same physical ability scores as the swarm (Str 1, Dex 22, Con 14), and a poisonous bite attack (otherwise the swarm wouldn't be poisonous either).


And how do you see a Hellwasp being more powerful than an Imp or Pseudo-Dragon or any of the improved familiars (which it would be contending with)?

Good point. I forgot about the Improved Familiar feat.


Ah, then I'd suggest just statting up some kind of "Greater Hellwasp" to fit the bill.

As in a Tiny hellwasp? Maybe, but it would be hard to explain why the hellwasp shrinks when it becomes part of a swarm.

[Tanuki Tales]

It's true that none of the vermin familiars are Diminutive, but the bat and toad are.

Shows how much I look into familiars on characters. xD

Once again, you're right.




Each individual hellwasp has the same physical ability scores as the swarm (Str 1, Dex 22, Con 14), and a poisonous bite attack (otherwise the swarm wouldn't be poisonous either).

You mind quoting where that's from. I'm not seeing it in the rules text for the swarm subtype.




Good point. I forgot about the Improved Familiar feat.

So you could buff it up if you made it obtainable through the feat. I don't think there's precedence for a non-mundane animal being made into a familiar though without the feat.



As in a Tiny hellwasp? Maybe, but it would be hard to explain why the hellwasp shrinks when it becomes part of a swarm.


Magic? :smalltongue:

[Tarvon000]

You mind quoting where that's from. I'm not seeing it in the rules text for the swarm subtype.

It turns out I was wrong. That isn't a rule after all.


So you could buff it up if you made it obtainable through the feat. I don't think there's precedence for a non-mundane animal being made into a familiar though without the feat.

I statted it out this morning. It's actually only CR 1/2, not worth a feat, and I didn't want to make it any more powerful because the class should get it at 1st level.

Actually, I posted the whole class earlier today, but I forgot to mention it until now.

[Tanuki Tales]

I statted it out this morning. It's actually only CR 1/2, not worth a feat, and I didn't want to make it any more powerful because the class should get it at 1st level.

Actually, I posted the whole class earlier today, but I forgot to mention it until now.

I saw, I just wanted to finish this line of discussion before jumping onto my take on your entry.

And I still think it being a Magical Beast is a big thing when the rest are Animals.

[Golden Ladybug]

Okay, I've posted my Worm-Eaten Collective.

If anyone has any comments, I'd be happy to hear them.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, let's do a run down on the Swarmlord.

Role and BaB
You mention it's supposed to take a similar role to the Sorcerer or Wizard with Wildshape and touch attacks to bring it into melee range. And I see it's supposed to be thematically similar to the Druid, so I can see the rational for a medium BaB progression.

But the Paizo team specifically nerfed Wildshape as a combat option and made it quite known that they only saw it for scouting and utility, nothing more. Touch attacks also generally land because most creatures have a much lower touch ac compared to their normal ac.

So, do you really need a medium BaB progression on this guy?

Create Swarm
I notice that your usable swarm's CR as you level reflects the spell level a full caster would have at the same time. The issue with that is that as you level, your Swarms are less and less a threat for what you'd be using them against. Take the Tick Swarm for example; CR 17+ creatures wouldn't be threatened by a CR 9 creature. The swarm traits take care of this in some ways but when your enemies start being casters or dragons or powerful outsiders, those traits become like Damage Reduction/Magic.

Command Swarm
Isn't this as a whole a little limited and/or superfluous? Why not just make the swarms able to move and act on their own and just have it be a swift action or something similar to direct the swarm as a whole?

Hellwasp familiar
I have to ask; why a hellwasp? This class doesn't have any connections to the Hells so it honestly feels tacked on. Why not just make it so the Swarmlord can gain any appropriate vermin as a familiar and have the Hellwasp as one of the options?

Swarm Immunity
What about swarms of Tiny creatures? Otherwise this ability looks fine but you may be getting it too early. The DR is very limited, but those immunities can be useful. It just makes the class really front loaded for level 1 and attractive as a dip. Also, I think you mean sickened, not sickness.

Poison Use
Why poison use? The Swarmlord can create swarms with poison special attacks and the class is centered around offensive usage of swarms. Just something else that feels kind of tacked on since Poison use is generally a stealth/assassin class thing.

Poison Resistance
Does this apply to magical or supernatural poisons as well?

Splice Swarm
What exactly is a "large swarm"?

Disease Resistance
Does this apply to magical or supernatural diseases as well.

Guarded Thoughts
The first part of this is really niche and the second part is definitely too little too late. Flat immunity to Mind-affecting effects would be more suitable honestly.

Hellwasp Swarm
This...is a really weak capstone ability to be honest. It doesn't really entice someone to take all 20 levels in this class.


Oh and I should have said this earlier (with Bel's entry), but I just want to be clear that I don't mean to come off as mean or condescending or picking on the entries I look over. I'm just be thorough in my critiques of the entries so they can be polished and be the best that they can be.


@Ladybug: I'll give your class a run down when you've finished the Crown Worm and Worm-Eaten template. :smallsmile:

[Tanuki Tales]

Since it's on my mind at the moment;

I'm thinking ahead for May's theme. Would you guys be on-board if I made the theme tie in with the Avenger's movie being released that month state-side?

[Tarvon000]

Role and BaB
You mention it's supposed to take a similar role to the Sorcerer or Wizard with Wildshape and touch attacks to bring it into melee range. And I see it's supposed to be thematically similar to the Druid, so I can see the rational for a medium BaB progression.

. . .

So, do you really need a medium BaB progression on this guy?

Oh, I forgot to rewrite the role after I replaced the touch attack with a different ability. And you're right about the BAB, I changed it to 1/2.


Create Swarm
I notice that your usable swarm's CR as you level reflects the spell level a full caster would have at the same time. The issue with that is that as you level, your Swarms are less and less a threat for what you'd be using them against. Take the Tick Swarm for example; CR 17+ creatures wouldn't be threatened by a CR 9 creature. The swarm traits take care of this in some ways but when your enemies start being casters or dragons or powerful outsiders, those traits become like Damage Reduction/Magic.

I added abilities to make the swarms more powerful at later levels.


Command Swarm
Isn't this as a whole a little limited and/or superfluous? Why not just make the swarms able to move and act on their own and just have it be a swift action or something similar to direct the swarm as a whole?

Actually, this ability is the main reason I made the class in the first place. I've always wanted to add the AP system to a roleplaying game.


Hellwasp familiar
I have to ask; why a hellwasp? This class doesn't have any connections to the Hells so it honestly feels tacked on. Why not just make it so the Swarmlord can gain any appropriate vermin as a familiar and have the Hellwasp as one of the options?

Swarm Immunity
What about swarms of Tiny creatures? Otherwise this ability looks fine but you may be getting it too early. The DR is very limited, but those immunities can be useful. It just makes the class really front loaded for level 1 and attractive as a dip. Also, I think you mean sickened, not sickness.

Poison Use
Why poison use? The Swarmlord can create swarms with poison special attacks and the class is centered around offensive usage of swarms. Just something else that feels kind of tacked on since Poison use is generally a stealth/assassin class thing.

Poison Resistance
Does this apply to magical or supernatural poisons as well?

Splice Swarm
What exactly is a "large swarm"?

Disease Resistance
Does this apply to magical or supernatural diseases as well.

Guarded Thoughts
The first part of this is really niche and the second part is definitely too little too late. Flat immunity to Mind-affecting effects would be more suitable honestly.

Hellwasp Swarm
This...is a really weak capstone ability to be honest. It doesn't really entice someone to take all 20 levels in this class.

All of these were either fixed or replaced with new abilities.

[Kane0]

Ok, my Theg have more or less been submitted, just got some touching up to do which ill get around to later.

And yes for those wondering I completey took the ideas of the Geth and Collectrs from Mass Effect, mashed them together and applied them to the Fogotten Realms. Please PEACH :smallsmile:

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, second rundown for the Swarmlord.

Create Swarm
Letting him place it anywhere in 30 feet of himself is much better. Allows some strategy for dropping swarms before using any action points.

Command Swarm
Are the "Or"s really necessary? What's the difference between moving in a path of your choice and towards the nearest target? There isn't a point cost difference or other opportunity cost, just your choice of action.

Agile Swarm
May I suggest refluffing this as a continuous swarm floating around the Swarmlord and change the dodge bonus to a deflection bonus?

Swarm Resistance
Not a big thing, but I might suggest making this scale in someway. It's very, very, very niche but making it start at DR 5/- and then improve to DR 10/- sometime down the line might be something nice that someone looks forward to as they level.

Evasive Swarm
Like Agile Swarm, I'd just suggest refluffing this as the swarm around the Swarmlord taking/mitigating the blow. Also, do you want this ability to allow Swarmlords to qualify for things that require the Evasion class feature? If so, you probably want to make a note of that.

Penetrating Swarm
This ability is kind of powerful in my opinion. The Penetrating Strike feat only allows the ignoring of 5 points of DR (though doesn't affect DR X/-) and even then a Fighter can't take it until 12th level.

Warded Swarm
SR 17-25 at level 12-20 is a little weak since decent SR would be giving 23-31 at those level ranges.

Greater Swarm
See, this still feels weak as a capstone to me. It's much better than your last one though. Maybe someone else can give an opinion on it, but I still feel that a capstone should be something flat out amazing.

@Kane: I'll give your race a rundown when you've finished the mechanics for it. :smallsmile:

[Shadow Lord]

Troll Bräu, are we allowed to make a Race, Class, and Prestige Class combination? As in, are we allowed to do all three for the same entry?

[Tanuki Tales]

Troll Bräu, are we allowed to make a Race, Class, and Prestige Class combination? As in, are we allowed to do all three for the same entry?

Firstly, thank you for using the umlaut.

Secondly, at least for this month's contest the answer is no. In the future, if the folks we get to consistently take part in this contest are up for doing that amount of work for a specific month's contest, I'm all for it. Just at this juncture it wouldn't be fair for you or the other current contestants.

Of course, I know that Ladybug at least would love to see that happen at one point since she/he/hir/other gender pronoun/etc. originally thought that was how this month's contest was set up because of how poorly I worded the first rule. :smallbiggrin:

[Tarvon000]

Command Swarm
Are the "Or"s really necessary? What's the difference between moving in a path of your choice and towards the nearest target? There isn't a point cost difference or other opportunity cost, just your choice of action.

Whenever there's an "Or," the first option lets you move the swarm at twice its normal speed. So you have to choose between speed and precision.


Agile Swarm
May I suggest refluffing this as a continuous swarm floating around the Swarmlord and change the dodge bonus to a deflection bonus?

Evasive Swarm
Like Agile Swarm, I'd just suggest refluffing this as the swarm around the Swarmlord taking/mitigating the blow. Also, do you want this ability to allow Swarmlords to qualify for things that require the Evasion class feature? If so, you probably want to make a note of that.

These abilities only apply to the swarms, not to the swarmlord itself. I changed the wording to make this clearer.


Penetrating Swarm
This ability is kind of powerful in my opinion. The Penetrating Strike feat only allows the ignoring of 5 points of DR (though doesn't affect DR X/-) and even then a Fighter can't take it until 12th level.

Greater Swarm
See, this still feels weak as a capstone to me. It's much better than your last one though. Maybe someone else can give an opinion on it, but I still feel that a capstone should be something flat out amazing.

Okay, then. Penetrating Swarm now ignores only 10 points of DR until 20th level.

[Milo v3]

I've thrown my blade into the arena. Its not finished but it will be done long before the deadline. It is an assassin style base class who has various spider based powers. I really hope thats close enough to arthropodes to qualify, as spiders are arthropodes.

As I go along with it I'd like to hear any comments people have about it.


I'm thinking ahead for May's theme. Would you guys be on-board if I made the theme tie in with the Avenger's movie being released that month state-side?
I've got an idea for a superpowered class that I've been wanting to make but never had the initiative, the due date may give me the push to make it.

So basically I'm all for you making a tie in. And its your competition, the theme is simply inspiration which you choose for us to aim towards.

That made more sense in my head.

[Tanuki Tales]

Whenever there's an "Or," the first option lets you move the swarm at twice its normal speed. So you have to choose between speed and precision.

Could you explain the rationale behind this ability then please? I know you want to start a new subsystem but why did you choose to build it in this way?



Okay, then. Penetrating Swarm now ignores only 10 points of DR until 20th level.

Still a little much at 8. Maybe 5 at 8, 10 at 14 and then all at 20?

The capstone still feels like it could use something. Maybe when you summon a swarm you get two instead of one? Something like that should be added on to what you already have to really give it an oomph.



I've thrown my blade into the arena. Its not finished but it will be done long before the deadline. It is an assassin style base class who has various spider based powers. I really hope thats close enough to arthropodes to qualify, as spiders are arthropodes.

As I go along with it I'd like to hear any comments people have about it.

And I feel like a massive idiot.

Thank you for saying something or I may not have noticing I had anthropods instead of arthropods. :smallsigh:

And yes, that meets the theme.


I've got an idea for a superpowered class that I've been wanting to make but never had the initiative, the due date may give me the push to make it.

So basically I'm all for you making a tie in. And its your competition, the theme is simply inspiration which you choose for us to aim towards.

That made more sense in my head.

Well, I can make themes as I please and till I'm blue in the face but I won't matter if no one likes them enough to compete. :smallwink:

But that's good to hear, guess I've got May's theme then. :smalltongue:

I'll take a look at your entry later Milo, still trying to wake up here.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, time to give a run down on the Spider Blood Assassin.

Alignment
How exactly does one go about being a "Good" Assassin?

Skills
As an assassin, shouldn't this class have Knowledge (Local) and/or Knowledge (Nobility)? And why Knowledge (Nature)?

Weapon Proficiencies
If I remember right, one of the many issues with the Monk (in both 3.5 and Pathfinder) was that it's weapon list was so restricted. Why not just grant flat Simple Weapon Prof and then list the extras?

Assassin Techniques
Camouflage - You have a weird bit of grammar in the first sentence.

Child of Araneae - This feels a little weak to me as a 9th level feature. Maybe if the spider got half the Assassin's Sneak Attack dice.

Combat Trick - There's no spacing between this and the choice above it.

Drain the Fluids - And this works on any kind of creature? Elementals, Undead and Oozes?

Weapon Training - This is honestly a waste of a technique. Sure, normally the Assassin can't take it but the feat isn't that great to begin with. Maybe if the technique let you count as some level of virtual fighter or something.

Widow's Toxin - This ability needs to be tagged. Also, poisons in Pathfinder don't have "initial" and "secondary" damage, that was a 3.5 thing. Viper for example. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/snake/snake-viper)

Why does this key off charisma instead of constitution?

Save Bonus against Poison
The name is honestly clunky, I'd consider renaming it. And it needs to be tagged as an ability. Also, does it apply to magical and supernatural poisons?

Advanced Techniques
You forgot to bold the name of this ability.

A Touch of Venom - The wording of this ability is a little clunky. You should word it more like, "If the Spider Blood Assassin successfully delivers an unarmed strike or a melee touch attack, they may use their Widow's Toxin Assassin Technique in addition to the normal effects of the attack."

Weapon Subtly
I think you misspelled subtly. This ability is something generally gained by a class earlier on than this point and once you add this with some of your other abilities, the class is starting to become MAD.


This class has no capstone; what entices me to take all 20 levels of this class?

In fact, once I hit level 10 there's little to keep me in the class except for some numeric boosts and if there were some more Assassin Techniques, Advanced Techniques or feats that I really wanted for my build but hadn't gotten yet by level 10.

[Milo v3]

Alignment
How exactly does one go about being a "Good" Assassin?
Only killing villians. I'm pretty sure most hero's are good even though they kill people.


Skills
As an assassin, shouldn't this class have Knowledge (Local) and/or Knowledge (Nobility)? And why Knowledge (Nature)?
Knoweldge (Local) is meant to be there seems I forgot it. Knowledge (Nature) is their so they can identify spiders and get Child of Araneae. I didn't want to add Knowledge (Nobility) as I thought it might cause it to have too many class skills


Weapon Proficiencies
If I remember right, one of the many issues with the Monk (in both 3.5 and Pathfinder) was that it's weapon list was so restricted. Why not just grant flat Simple Weapon Prof and then list the extras?
Your right I've changed it so it works with all Simple Weapons.


Assassin Techniques
Camouflage - You have a weird bit of grammar in the first sentence.Fixed


Child of Araneae - This feels a little weak to me as a 9th level feature. Maybe if the spider got half the Assassin's Sneak Attack dice.Gave it better sneak attack, think I may have stuffed up the wording though.


Combat Trick - There's no spacing between this and the choice above it.Fixed


Drain the Fluids - And this works on any kind of creature? Elementals, Undead and Oozes? I'll reword it.


Weapon Training - This is honestly a waste of a technique. Sure, normally the Assassin can't take it but the feat isn't that great to begin with. Maybe if the technique let you count as some level of virtual fighter or something.Its the Weapons Training Talent from Pathfinders Rogue so it should be realitively balanced... I'll try and beef it up.


Widow's Toxin - This ability needs to be tagged. Also, poisons in Pathfinder don't have "initial" and "secondary" damage, that was a 3.5 thing. Viper for example. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/snake/snake-viper)

Why does this key off charisma instead of constitution?
Sorry I'll fix.


Save Bonus against Poison
The name is honestly clunky, I'd consider renaming it. And it needs to be tagged as an ability. Also, does it apply to magical and supernatural poisons?This has the exact same wording and formatting as the Assassin Ability of the same name. Thats why it is like how it is.. Why change what is canon in Pathfinder.


Advanced Techniques
You forgot to bold the name of this ability.Fixed.


A Touch of Venom - The wording of this ability is a little clunky. You should word it more like, "If the Spider Blood Assassin successfully delivers an unarmed strike or a melee touch attack, they may use their Widow's Toxin Assassin Technique in addition to the normal effects of the attack."I'll reword this.


Weapon Subtly
I think you misspelled subtly. This ability is something generally gained by a class earlier on than this point and once you add this with some of your other abilities, the class is starting to become MAD.Changed it to Dexterity


This class has no capstone; what entices me to take all 20 levels of this class? I tried to think of one but nothing came to mind.... I'll try again.


In fact, once I hit level 10 there's little to keep me in the class except for some numeric boosts and if there were some more Assassin Techniques, Advanced Techniques or feats that I really wanted for my build but hadn't gotten yet by level 10.I'll try and think up some more Techniques and the Capstone.

[Tanuki Tales]

Only killing villians. I'm pretty sure most hero's are good even though they kill people.

An "assassin" though is someone who's sole profession is the art of killing another living, sentient being. When it comes down to the line and the end of the day draws to a close, the only answer that enters the mind of the individual such as that is the curtailing of someone or something's life. Even when used for good ends, the act of murder is, at best, a neutral act. Yes, those who are squarely in the good alignment kill, but they do this generally as an action of last resort. The good alignment espouses mercy, kindness, forgiveness and the attempt to take a heinous foe prisoner for potential rehabilitation before exerting the most final of methods.

TL;DR: Good people may kill but assassin kill as their bread and butter.



Knoweldge (Local) is meant to be there seems I forgot it. Knowledge (Nature) is their so they can identify spiders and get Child of Araneae. I didn't want to add Knowledge (Nobility) as I thought it might cause it to have too many class skills

Eh, you can never have too many class skills really. Once you multiclass and dip here and there you can pretty much grab every skill as a class skill before level 4 and still have a good build.

I would suggest expanding the use/necessity of Knowledge (Nature) for the class then to make it less tacked on and more important for the flavor and mechanics of the class.



Gave it better sneak attack, think I may have stuffed up the wording though.

A little. Just end the sentence after the 5 and start a new sentence saying something like, "The animal companion possesses half its master's sneak attack dice as well".



I'll reword it.

Alrighty.


Its the Weapons Training Talent from Pathfinders Rogue so it should be realitively balanced... I'll try and beef it up.

Emphasis on the concept of "should". Pathfinder may have done a lot of good things, but it didn't particularly change the tier system too much or fix every problem. So don't feel scared to make the Spider Blood Assassin better than the Rogue.



Sorry I'll fix.

Looks good.


This has the exact same wording and formatting as the Assassin Ability of the same name. Thats why it is like how it is.. Why change what is canon in Pathfinder.

Because that's why we homebrew good sir. Because that's why we homebrew. :smalltongue:

On a serious note though, just because Pathfinder did something one way or named something a certain way doesn't mean we can't tweak it or give it a better window dressing. The wonderful folks at Paizo are no more infallible than you or I.

But it's ultimately up to you to decide to take any advice or critiques I offer, so go with what feels right to you.

At the very least, change the name of the ability. It honestly makes the table look sort of clunky.



I tried to think of one but nothing came to mind.... I'll try again.

I'll try and think up some more Techniques and the Capstone.

I definitely suggest adding in more spider related and themed abilities. Don't feel above cribbing from other fictional sources (like the multiple incarnations of Spider-man for example) when looking for inspiration.

[Milo v3]

An "assassin" though is someone who's sole profession is the art of killing another living, sentient being. When it comes down to the line and the end of the day draws to a close, the only answer that enters the mind of the individual such as that is the curtailing of someone or something's life. Even when used for good ends, the act of murder is, at best, a neutral act. Yes, those who are squarely in the good alignment kill, but they do this generally as an action of last resort. The good alignment espouses mercy, kindness, forgiveness and the attempt to take a heinous foe prisoner for potential rehabilitation before exerting the most final of methods.

TL;DR: Good people may kill but assassin kill as their bread and butter.
Based on that that every soldier character at war should be evil. Also I never a Spider Blood Assassin has to be part of an organisation. He could be just have his pact which grants him gifts and he is really a master thief. I think a lot of his talents would be perfect for a thief.


Eh, you can never have too many class skills really. Once you multiclass and dip here and there you can pretty much grab every skill as a class skill before level 4 and still have a good build.
Good Point.


I would suggest expanding the use/necessity of Knowledge (Nature) for the class then to make it less tacked on and more important for the flavor and mechanics of the class.
I'll try to do that. Maybe give it a variant of Animal Empathy.


A little. Just end the sentence after the 5 and start a new sentence saying something like, "The animal companion possesses half its master's sneak attack dice as well".
That is worded lot better than what it was, thanks.


Emphasis on the concept of "should". Pathfinder may have done a lot of good things, but it didn't particularly change the tier system too much or fix every problem. So don't feel scared to make the Spider Blood Assassin better than the Rogue.I think it already is more powerful than the rogue as it has multiple of its talents and the extra ones are generally more powerful and useful, so that shouldn't be a worry.


On a serious note though, just because Pathfinder did something one way or named something a certain way doesn't mean we can't tweak it or give it a better window dressing. The wonderful folks at Paizo are no more infallible than you or I.
I'll probably rename it to Spider Blood and make it slightly more balanced.


But it's ultimately up to you to decide to take any advice or critiques I offer, so go with what feels right to you.
I like to hear peoples opinions, without them I've submitted something I have no idea on its status on whether grammer needs fixing, balance, or lack of versatility.


I definitely suggest adding in more spider related and themed abilities. Don't feel above cribbing from other fictional sources (like the multiple incarnations of Spider-man for example) when looking for inspiration.
He was the inspiration for this class as he is my favourite hero. Strange a hero being the inspiration for a class excelling at killing. Also I've already got a few ideas.

[Tarvon000]

Could you explain the rationale behind this ability then please? I know you want to start a new subsystem but why did you choose to build it in this way?

Swarms are often too slow to be effective if they can only take a single move action each round.

[Tanuki Tales]

Based on that that every soldier character at war should be evil. Also I never a Spider Blood Assassin has to be part of an organisation. He could be just have his pact which grants him gifts and he is really a master thief. I think a lot of his talents would be perfect for a thief.

That's honestly a skewed comparison to make.

A soldier goes into their duty knowing that chances are that they will have to kill another person in the pursuit of their duty. This is the inevitability of their choice to become a defender for their home land, but it's just that, an inevitability. It may and will happen but a soldier never knows when and it's not the only way to accomplish their duty. They become a soldier to protect that which they hold dear and that is how you have a good soldier. The minority may be sadists using their station as an excuse to commit atrocities, but they are a minority in all but Chaotic/Neutral Evil societies.

An assassin though? An assassin made the conscious decision to lead a life of death dealing. An assassin always kills and exists only to kill, nothing more. They are a living, intelligent weapon that is directed at other living, intelligent creatures. Whether this be by an organization, a lone employer or their own principles, it doesn't change that their hands are drenched in the blood of countless targets. They may kill to meet good ends, but that is the argument of a neutral character, not a good character.

TL;DR: Soldiers exist to protect and sometimes kill. Assassins exist to kill and sometimes protect.

I'd suggest changing the name to "Spider Blood Agent" or "Spider Blood Apostle" or something similar. If you keep assassin in the name you're going to open the class to theological debate, especially against those who try to espouse the capability of being an assassin and of the good alignments as well.



That is worded lot better than what it was, thanks.

You're welcome.



I'll probably rename it to Spider Blood and make it slightly more balanced.

Look forward to seeing it.



I like to hear peoples opinions, without them I've submitted something I have no idea on its status on whether grammer needs fixing, balance, or lack of versatility.

I know, I just feel like I might come off as a little too overbearing or harsh in my critiques. :smallredface:



He was the inspiration for this class as he is my favourite hero. Strange a hero being the inspiration for a class excelling at killing. Also I've already got a few ideas.

Ever read What If? Spider-Man Vs. Wolverine Vol 1 #1?

The whole story concerns Spider-man joining up with Wolverine to terminate terrorist organizations after he accidentally killed a KGB friend of Wolverine's (in the main universe he was haunted and horrified and went into Mary Jane's open arms. In this universe he "stayed in the cold"). He becomes a better martial artist and assassin than Wolverine and he develops his spider sense to the point that it's actual precognition (to the point of detecting things hours and days ahead if I'm remember correctly).

His outfit was really awesome too:

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/1/1a/What_If%3F_Spider-Man_Vs._Wolverine_Vol_1_1_page_33_Peter_Parker_%28 Earth-8351%29.jpg

[Tanuki Tales]

What I actually did was allow the swarmlord to move a swarm at twice its normal speed by spending an additional action point, and then grouped its options according to action point cost. I'll change the wording to make this clearer.

Alrighty, look forward to the updated version.

[Milo v3]

That's honestly a skewed comparison to make.

A soldier goes into their duty knowing that chances are that they will have to kill another person in the pursuit of their duty. This is the inevitability of their choice to become a defender for their home land, but it's just that, an inevitability. It may and will happen but a soldier never knows when and it's not the only way to accomplish their duty. They become a soldier to protect that which they hold dear and that is how you have a good soldier. The minority may be sadists using their station as an excuse to commit atrocities, but they are a minority in all but Chaotic/Neutral Evil societies.

An assassin though? An assassin made the conscious decision to lead a life of death dealing. An assassin always kills and exists only to kill, nothing more. They are a living, intelligent weapon that is directed at other living, intelligent creatures. Whether this be by an organization, a lone employer or their own principles, it doesn't change that their hands are drenched in the blood of countless targets. They may kill to meet good ends, but that is the argument of a neutral character, not a good character.

TL;DR: Soldiers exist to protect and sometimes kill. Assassins exist to kill and sometimes protect.

I'd suggest changing the name to "Spider Blood Agent" or "Spider Blood Apostle" or something similar. If you keep assassin in the name you're going to open the class to theological debate, especially against those who try to espouse the capability of being an assassin and of the good alignments as well.
I'm fine for a theological debate but this definitely isn't the place. But all I want to say is that I've now added that Spider Blood Assassin's don't have to be killers.

Also Apostle means messenger, and an agent is someone who works on the behalf of others, neither of which fit the class's feel.


Look forward to seeing it.
I've made Spider Blood.


I know, I just feel like I might come off as a little too overbearing or harsh in my critiques. :smallredface:
The H in PEACH stands for Honestly and your posts seem to be Honest rather than harsh so they are welcome.


Ever read What If? Spider-Man Vs. Wolverine Vol 1 #1?

The whole story concerns Spider-man joining up with Wolverine to terminate terrorist organizations after he accidentally killed a KGB friend of Wolverine's (in the main universe he was haunted and horrified and went into Mary Jane's open arms. In this universe he "stayed in the cold"). He becomes a better martial artist and assassin than Wolverine and he develops his spider sense to the point that it's actual precognition (to the point of detecting things hours and days ahead if I'm remember correctly).

His outfit was really awesome too:

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/1/1a/What_If%3F_Spider-Man_Vs._Wolverine_Vol_1_1_page_33_Peter_Parker_%28 Earth-8351%29.jpg
Sadly I haven't and now I really want to find that issue.

[Tanuki Tales]

Also Apostle means messenger, and an agent is someone who works on the behalf of others, neither of which fit the class's feel.

Well, the class does get its power from a pact with a Spider Goddess, doesn't it?



I've made Spider Blood.

It looks great. I would still make some mention about magical and supernatural poisons. One doesn't jump directly to my mind, but it'd be good to clarify and/or cover all your bases.



The H in PEACH stands for Honestly and your posts seem to be Honest rather than harsh so they are welcome.

I know, I just feel like I can be too critical. Just ignore me on this bit then. xD



Sadly I haven't and now I really want to find that issue.

I could have sworn I read this in some tradeback volume...but I can't remember which...

[Milo v3]

Troll Bräu if you have the time can you do an overview of my class again. I've added several new abilities and techniques, most of the new ones being designed for above level 10 to incite people to continue with the class as that was a problem before.

[Kane0]

Updated my Theg entry.

Thought you ought to know :smallredface:

[Golden Ladybug]

Oh yeah, I finally found the time to go and write up my Crown Worm and Worm-Eaten Template.

[Tanuki Tales]

Here's another rundown for the Spider Blood Assassin.

Poison Use
You have "blade" instead of "weapon".

Assassin Techniques
Aranea Shell - This ability needs to be tagged.

Drain the Fluids - Do you intend this ability to work on Elementals? Otherwise you need to specify it doesn't since Elemental became a subtype of Outsider in Pathfinder.

Tarantula's Tool - Now, do they gain the same chompers of a Tarantula or just sharp teeth or what? Something I like to do when I make base classes that grant natural attacks is that they can grow and dismiss them (usually standard to grow, free to dismiss for me) so that they don't impede them socially. Otherwise, this ability is fine.

Unrelenting Grip - This ability needs to be tagged.

Weapon Training - While both are still subpar feats, this is definitely better.

Advanced Assassin Techniques
Mark of Kaine - *chuckles*
Anyways, the end of the last sentence looks like a copy/paste error.

Whispers of the Web
I would just word this as something like, "A Spider Blood Assassin of twelfth level or higher can converse with Arachnids as if they shared a language." and make it a Supernatural ability. Sp abilities generally require a direct activation, not a passive benefit.

Also, I would change this to only allow conversing with spiders and spider-like creatures, not arachnids. The issue arises where you'd require the players and DMs to know what is an arachnid and what isn't and that this ability would allow conversing with scorpions, ticks, mites, harvestmen and solifugae (though if you meant that, it's fine).

Nest of Fangs
You forgot "can" after "Assassin".

A permanent duration is a little much, even if you can only have one swarm at a time. This means the swarm will always be following you once summoned and you'll need to keep up with its day to day needs. I'd suggest changing the duration to a set amount of time (like an hour or two) and giving the option for dismissing the swarm prematurely.

And this is more just something I like to do while formatting abilities, but can I suggest making a of what the changes are?

A Thousand Eyes
As what spell?

Spider Thrall
I'm a little confused with this one. If the spider already has to be willing, what is the exact purpose of this ability? What do you and the thrall get out of it?


I really like how you've updated the class. :smallsmile:




Alright, time for a rundown on the Theg.


Fluff
I must admit that my knowledge of the Realms is honestly very threadbare. I've read a few of the Drizzt novels and I have the campaign setting sitting around here somewhere, but that's about it.

Plowing on though, I really like how they've domesticated Ankhegs. For some reason those monsters have always been a favorite of me and mine and it's a nice touch.

Physical description
I'm guessing ceratinous/keratinous is a regional dialect thing?

Do they look like any beetle in particular or are they just generically beetle-like?

Relations
I think you meant "subduing".

Adventuers
It looks like you haven't finished writing this part. But I am curious on something; you make mention how a Theg separated from the collective withers and dies. Why is this different than an adventuring Theg?

Names
You have "o" instead of "to".

Language
You have "ar" instead of "at".

I think you meant "deeply" instead of "deep".

Racial Traits
Ability scores - Sturdiness and Memory would entail a Constitution and Wisdom bonus, not Strength and Intelligence.

Movement speed - There is none listed.

Visions - There is none listed.

Hivemind - I'd clear up how this is worded to make it more in line with other racial abilities. Also, I'd reword the positive so that as long as any Theg are within range of each other, they all have to be caught flat-footed/flanked for any one member to be caught flat-footed/flanked.

Ancient Netherese Patronage - You can make Knowledge checks untrained as long as the DC is 10 or lower, so you may want to clarify what this ability does exactly.

Aging
Well, they're certainly long lived for insects.

Height/Weight Table
The Weight Modifier is a static number in Pathfinder, it's not rolled.




Now let's do a rundown for the Worm-Eaten Collective.

Fluff
The second paragraph confuses me a little bit. Is the goal of this class to gather drones under their control or are they trying to destroy the Collective as a whole or what? And why is Rival capitalized?

Requirements
Alignment - I don't know about Chaotic, but this class definitely should require an Evil alignment. You're transforming creatures against their will into meat puppets for your own use and power and the spell required to enter the class has the "evil" tag.

Spells - I'd reword this to say something like, "Must be able to cast arcane spells (one of which is Fleshworm Infestation)."

Class Skills
There's only 1 f in Profession.

Table
You forgot to add in the class' name.

Spells Per Day
So if a Wizard 7/Cleric 1 took all 10 levels in this class then they could choose to progress their Cleric casting and cast as a Wizard 7/Cleric 9?

Worm-Eaten
What is the significance of 5 hp or less? Generally abilities like these require the target to be helpless, unconscious or asleep.

Three different will saves feels a little superfluous honestly. If there were varying results for failing or saving against different amounts of the saves I could see justification for 3 saves, but not as it is now.

You do realize that the scale of resisting Horde starts at 2 HD or more (with the first level of this class taken) and ends at 5 HD or more (at 20th level). Did you intend for the horde the character controls being mostly weak NPCs?

Is there a cap on the insight bonuses?

Hoo-boy. That there is a massive drawback to the class, especially with how weak your individual horde members are.

I think this ability needs a tag of some sort or a break down of what parts of Ex, Su, etc.

Natural Armor Increase
The fluff for this matches more with Damage Reduction than Natural Armor. And I'd personally rename it to be less literal and clunky, but that's just me.

Master Collective
This ability needs a tag. And you're really starting to get into some serious bookwork with this class now and I wonder if you may be breaking the action economy here with your high grade minionmancy.

Pain of the Horde
You should give a range for this ability.

Indomitable Soul
I think this needs an (Ex) tag since you didn't use the feat's name as the feature.

Sacrificial Centrality
This ability needs a tag and a range.

And..um...wow. This ability is really, really powerful. Game breakingly so. You drop the HP on a maximized size horde by just 10 and you're getting +20 Con, +20 Charisma, and +20 Caster level.

This really needs to be toned down.

Crown Worm
That is a 3.5 stat block. Could you please reformat it to the Pathfinder one I provided? Also, you may want to check it against the Monster Creation Guidelines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation) that Paizo put out.

Template
Again, this is a 3.5 set up. I didn't remember to provide an example one when setting up the contest, but I'll add one in when I get the chance. In the mean time, please use the Lich (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lich) as an example.


And done.

[Golden Ladybug]

Now let's do a rundown for the Worm-Eaten Collective.

Fluff
The second paragraph confuses me a little bit. Is the goal of this class to gather drones under their control or are they trying to destroy the Collective as a whole or what? And why is Rival capitalized?

The Goal of the class goes hand in hand with Drone/Horde Member gathering, and form their own collective. Destroying opposing Collectives (who compete for 'resources' and have a reason to threaten you, as they can take control of your drones easily after your death) is a sound strategy, but it isn't the main goal of the class.

And rival is capitalised because...I'll go change it :smallwink:


Requirements
Alignment - I don't know about Chaotic, but this class definitely should require an Evil alignment. You're transforming creatures against their will into meat puppets for your own use and power and the spell required to enter the class has the "evil" tag.

Chaotic comes from my understanding of the Alignment wheel, as the Chaotic Alignment covers freedom and independence in quite a distinct way, which is part of my idea for how this class functions; one of the requirements is to stave off the control of another Worm-Eaten Collective, so I thought that reflecting that with the required alignment requiring a free spirit.

However, your point is valid, and I think I might just change it to Evil. The Class certainly isn't Good, and it'd be toeing the deep end of Neutral at the very best of times.



Spells - I'd reword this to say something like, "Must be able to cast arcane spells (one of which is Fleshworm Infestation)."

That's me leaving a small loophole, as Fleshworm Infestation isn't a Sorc/Wiz only spell. If a Druid or a Cleric wanted to get into the class, they could, if they were willing to jump through some hoops.



Class Skills
There's only 1 f in Profession.

Table
You forgot to add in the class' name.


:smallredface:



Spells Per Day
So if a Wizard 7/Cleric 1 took all 10 levels in this class then they could choose to progress their Cleric casting and cast as a Wizard 7/Cleric 9?


Indeed they could; I like classes that don't specify which type of casting they progress, as it leaves open the option to get strange things where they aren't expected.


Worm-Eaten
What is the significance of 5 hp or less? Generally abilities like these require the target to be helpless, unconscious or asleep.

Three different will saves feels a little superfluous honestly. If there were varying results for failing or saving against different amounts of the saves I could see justification for 3 saves, but not as it is now.

You do realize that the scale of resisting Horde starts at 2 HD or more (with the first level of this class taken) and ends at 5 HD or more (at 20th level). Did you intend for the horde the character controls being mostly weak NPCs?

Is there a cap on the insight bonuses?

Hoo-boy. That there is a massive drawback to the class, especially with how weak your individual horde members are.

I think this ability needs a tag of some sort or a break down of what parts of Ex, Su, etc.

I thought I edited out the 5HP part? My bad :smallredface:

The 5HP was a relic from the first draft of the class, which drew a lot on Greater Consumptive Field for the crunch, but I threw that out. I'll change that now.

The Three Saves does seem a bit off, in retrospect, but I didn't want to give the class a Save-or-Die as their main class feature; that's not the focus I was going for. What I was thinking about when writing this up was minionmancy. Now that you've brought it up, I don't really think it would work, and it would gimp the class a little.

I may raise the non-resistance cap a little, but I felt that having it uncapped would be a huge mistake. What happens when they fill their Control Pool with...Thunder Behemoths or something? Lots of lower powered creatures was my preference over a small group of ridiculously powerful ones. Still, I should look at that and tweak it a little, especially since I want to revise the Saves now.

The Cap is how many Worm-Eaten Creatures you can fit into the range of the ability, and once again I start to think how poorly balanced that is. I'll do something to fix that, or limit it more.

Its intentionally a Drawback, and its the cost for the huge control pool the class grants. They have to be coddle a bit, or else you take a penalty (maybe one that is too harsh, perhaps...I'll think about it). But, that just means putting them in combat has to be done with care. Equipping them all with a Bow and directing them to shoot at an enemy will solve problems. Even if they're only hitting on a twenty, the amount of arrows you've put in the air is astounding, especially if you start getting into the Teamwork Feats for archery.


Natural Armor Increase
The fluff for this matches more with Damage Reduction than Natural Armor. And I'd personally rename it to be less literal and clunky, but that's just me.

Reading over it, I think I should change it as well. Either rewrite the fluff or keep it and give them DR 10/-


Master Collective
This ability needs a tag. And you're really starting to get into some serious bookwork with this class now and I wonder if you may be breaking the action economy here with your high grade minionmancy.


No more than a Necromancer does, and they have more versatile options. They can fill their control pool with Thunder Behemoths all they want, and have to go through a lot less work to get them (kill, raise, rinse and repeat).

Worm-Eaten creatures are less likely to be useful in a straight up fight compared to Zombies or Skeletons, especially since they are both more fiddly to make, and are less durable. To make the archetypes comparable (as both a Necromancer and a Collective is concerned with Minionmancy) I've traded quality for quantity. You get a lot of minions out of this class.

I'll put a tag on it.



Pain of the Horde
You should give a range for this ability

Indomitable Soul
I think this needs an (Ex) tag since you didn't use the feat's name as the feature.


I'll get on that.



Sacrificial Centrality
This ability needs a tag and a range.

And..um...wow. This ability is really, really powerful. Game breakingly so. You drop the HP on a maximized size horde by just 10 and you're getting +20 Con, +20 Charisma, and +20 Caster level.

This really needs to be toned down.


How so? If you've filled the horde, the most likely maximum amount of hitpoints you're packing is the 5HD ones. Assuming average rolls and normal arrays, you're not going to be breaking 100HP. Lets say that the entire Horde is 5HD Barbarians, with 22 (16 Base, +6 Worm-Eaten) Con. They're going to have an average of 62 HP, which means that you can eke +16 Con, +16 Cha +8 CL out of them by killing them all. That is powerful, but you've just turned all your resources into a one hour buff.

The size of the horde means nothing, but the overall amount of HP that you can draw on. Every single creature needs to take 10 points of damage for you to get that buff, so the limit is decided by the Maximum HP of a creature in your Horde.

But, nonetheless, you have a point. I'll tone it down a bit.



Crown Worm
That is a 3.5 stat block. Could you please reformat it to the Pathfinder one I provided? Also, you may want to check it against the Monster Creation Guidelines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/monster-creation) that Paizo put out.

Template
Again, this is a 3.5 set up. I didn't remember to provide an example one when setting up the contest, but I'll add one in when I get the chance. In the mean time, please use the Lich (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lich) as an example.


I spend too much time playing 3.5 and my brain has too many examples of statblocks and templates from it. :smallbiggrin:

I'll get to work fixing that as soon as I have time...which will probably be tommorrow afternoon, so I'll leave it as is for now.

[Tanuki Tales]

The Goal of the class goes hand in hand with Drone/Horde Member gathering, and form their own collective. Destroying opposing Collectives (who compete for 'resources' and have a reason to threaten you, as they can take control of your drones easily after your death) is a sound strategy, but it isn't the main goal of the class.

And rival is capitalised because...I'll go change it :smallwink:


I thought that might be it, it's just the language seemed a little muddled to me.




Chaotic comes from my understanding of the Alignment wheel, as the Chaotic Alignment covers freedom and independence in quite a distinct way, which is part of my idea for how this class functions; one of the requirements is to stave off the control of another Worm-Eaten Collective, so I thought that reflecting that with the required alignment requiring a free spirit.

Ah, I can see that. But it could also be that an individual staved off their own control through a strict mental discipline and iron clad will and now wants to dominate and use the concept of the collective to their own ends as a powerful tool. So I could see Lawful WECs too.




Yup.



[quote]That's me leaving a small loophole, as Fleshworm Infestation isn't a Sorc/Wiz only spell. If a Druid or a Cleric wanted to get into the class, they could, if they were willing to jump through some hoops.

Well, that's not the way it's worded right. Only Sorc/Wizs/other arcane casters can get in, not Druids or Clerics. You should probably word it like, "Must be able to cast 4th level Arcane Spells or be able to cast Fleshworm Infestation."





Indeed they could; I like classes that don't specify which type of casting they progress, as it leaves open the option to get strange things where they aren't expected.

There was some issue with that back in the day...but I can't remember what. Not that important, just wanted to clarify.




The Three Saves does seem a bit off, in retrospect, but I didn't want to give the class a Save-or-Die as their main class feature; that's not the focus I was going for. What I was thinking about when writing this up was minionmancy. Now that you've brought it up, I don't really think it would work, and it would gimp the class a little.

Well, it is a prestige class after all, so a Save or Suck wouldn't be out of line for it's main feature and I'm sure there's another way to set it up so a Save or Die could work.


I may raise the non-resistance cap a little, but I felt that having it uncapped would be a huge mistake. What happens when they fill their Control Pool with...Thunder Behemoths or something? Lots of lower powered creatures was my preference over a small group of ridiculously powerful ones. Still, I should look at that and tweak it a little, especially since I want to revise the Saves now.

Well, you don't need to uncap it entirely, but raising it a little more wouldn't be out of line imo.



Its intentionally a Drawback, and its the cost for the huge control pool the class grants. They have to be coddle a bit, or else you take a penalty (maybe one that is too harsh, perhaps...I'll think about it). But, that just means putting them in combat has to be done with care. Equipping them all with a Bow and directing them to shoot at an enemy will solve problems. Even if they're only hitting on a twenty, the amount of arrows you've put in the air is astounding, especially if you start getting into the Teamwork Feats for archery.

But that might be too large a drawback though. I'd revise it so that a fellow high level caster or a decent dragon doesn't just ignore you, toast a chunk of your horde and laugh as your charisma takes a major plummet.

And can you choose the feats these guys have?




No more than a Necromancer does, and they have more versatile options. They can fill their control pool with Thunder Behemoths all they want, and have to go through a lot less work to get them (kill, raise, rinse and repeat).

But can a Necromancer have 460 minions under their control in Pathfinder?


Worm-Eaten creatures are less likely to be useful in a straight up fight compared to Zombies or Skeletons, especially since they are both more fiddly to make, and are less durable. To make the archetypes comparable (as both a Necromancer and a Collective is concerned with Minionmancy) I've traded quality for quantity. You get a lot of minions out of this class.

Eh, these guys are better than Zombies in my opinion and might be better than skeletons. They get a +6 Con bump and Fast Healing 1, that's pretty much ahead of them. I mean, DR is nice, but FH is nicer.








snip

Sorry, the "maximum size horde" bit was included when I misread it. The size of the horde isn't important.

My math was a little off and I can't remember which creatures I was using as measuring sticks (might have been some dragon or ooze), but yeah, that's still a big buff for little investment, even as a capstone for a prestige class. That's more like a level 20 capstone for a base class thing, imo.





I spend too much time playing 3.5 and my brain has too many examples of statblocks and templates from it. :smallbiggrin:

I'll get to work fixing that as soon as I have time...which will probably be tommorrow afternoon, so I'll leave it as is for now.

Look forward to it!

[Kane0]

I have updated the Theg, minor fixes based on PEACH.

[Tanuki Tales]

I have updated the Theg, minor fixes based on PEACH.

Alright, let's give another run down on the Theg and we'll be jumping right to the racial traits.

Ability Scores
Hardiness is still more a language choice for Constitution, not Strength.

Vision Modes
None are listed. Does this mean that the Theg see as humans?

Hivemind
You still need to clean this up. It's mechanically sound but looks really clunky in its set up.

Ancient Netherese Patronage
This is worded clunky and it's hard to really understand what it does. I'd suggest wording it like, "Theg receive a bonus on Knowledge skill checks equal to one quarter their total hit dice and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained". That's half as good as the Bard's Bardic Knowledge class feature and should be all right as a racial class feature.

What is the "Improved Racial Familiarity" feat? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

And what does the historian magnet bit have to do with anything mechanically?

Favored Class
There are no racial favored classes in Pathfinder.

Height/Weight table
The weight modifier is the same thing as the weight multiplier. You roll the height modifier and multiply it by the weight modifier to get how many pounds to add onto the base weight.

[Golden Ladybug]

Okay, did some tinkering and I think the Collective is looking a bit better.

I've messed with Control Cap a bit, bumped it up to 1/2 Character Level, but in return, I've limited Sacrificial Centrality and the other Horde Powers.

I've changed the Natural Armor into DR, which is still kinda nice, and also edited the Worm-Eaten Template.

Oh, and you don't get to choose the feats of whoever you take control of by default (if you want to ask you DM if you can mess around with feats, then go nuts). Normally, they'll keep whatever feats they had before.

[Kane0]

OK, I fixed up the Theg racial abilities some more.
I split some abilites and clarified them all, should be cleaner now, still not sure about Ancient Netherese Heritage though.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, time for another run down for the Worm-Eaten Collective.

Class skills
Why does the Worm-Eaten Collective have Disguise as a class skill if they end up taking a massive penalty to it?

Worm-Eaten
Now this looks much better. The total HD amount cap is definitely better than having hundreds of 1-5 HD creatures. Are creatures immune to poison immune to this ability since you framed it as being a toxin?

You may wanted to mention that the nausea affects those who would be otherwise immune to it. That way someone couldn't just dip into Tarvon's Swarmlord and then progress as a caster into this class for no penalty minionmancy. And may I also suggest some unmitigated nonlethal damage on top of the nausea?


If the Worm-Eaten Collective's charisma score decreases to the point that she can no longer control the entirety of her Horde, she loses the benefits of those Horde Members no longer under her control (which members of the Horde are lost is determined randomly).

You may want to reword this since it's a carry over from when the class feature dealt Charisma damage.

Horde Mind
Looks good.

Painless
Looks good.

Master Collective
If Worm-Eaten is Ex, shouldn't this be too?

Sacrificial Centrality
This ability still needs a cap, especially since you've changed it to up for every 20 hp (so 1 hp from 20 horde members) drained from the Horde instead of 10 from each member. A cap of 10 should be poignant, especially since it'd be a 20th level ability.

The bonuses have become untyped, but I guess that's fine for a 20th level ability.

Crown Worm

Can you explain why it's a Will save and then a Fortitude save for it's Burrowing Bite?

With Organization, generally mention is made of what each grouping is called.

You forgot the apostrophe in Victim's.

Also, I note these guys are just plain vermin. Could you explain what the exact vehicle for the creation of the templated creature is?

Template
Why the inclusion of Living Constructs? They would generally seem immune to these guys (lacking a brain and all) and they don't exist in Pathfinder (it's probably product identity). Giant isn't a creature in Pathfinder, it became a subtype of Humanoid. Why are Undead susceptible but not Dragons, regular Constructs, Oozes or Outsiders?

Why does it lose it's natural armor bonus?

You should probably just note it has the Mindless ability:

Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). A Worm-Eaten Creature with an Intelligence score loses this trait.

Why does it have immunity to Fortitude saves?

That text in the parenthesis for the immunity to Nonlethal damage isn't really necessary.



Alright, another run down on the Theg.


The racial traits still need some cleaning up; let me link you to the Dwarf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/dwarf) so you have an example of the formatting.

Hivemind
What is the difference between a hostile and non-hostile Theg for this ability. And why the distinction?

ANH
Yeah, this is still funky. I really suggest taking my suggested wording for this one. It's clean and simple and based on an existing class ability so it at least has some balance.

Height/Weight
Look at the Dwarf's table.

[Kane0]

Hivemind
What is the difference between a hostile and non-hostile Theg for this ability. And why the distinction?

My thinking was along the lines of this: If humans had a racial ability named cooperation that granted +2 to attack when adjacent to another human, and were fighting another human, of course they would not be granting each other fighting bonuses by cooperating.
Similarly a Theg will not provide tactical assistance to a Theg on the opposing side, espacially if they are fighting each other.



ANH
Yeah, this is still funky. I really suggest taking my suggested wording for this one. It's clean and simple and based on an existing class ability so it at least has some balance.


Revised it again. Added another racial trait.



Height/Weight
Look at the Dwarf's table.

OK, patched up again.

[Tanuki Tales]

My thinking was along the lines of this: If humans had a racial ability named cooperation that granted +2 to attack when adjacent to another human, and were fighting another human, of course they would not be granting each other fighting bonuses by cooperating.
Similarly a Theg will not provide tactical assistance to a Theg on the opposing side, espacially if they are fighting each other.

Ok, that clears it up. Maybe change the wording to denote that Theg only gain/give this bonus from/to Theg of the same Hive/Colony?

And I'd reword the last sentence to be, "This is a sonic, mind-affecting ability", because I assume Undead Theg wouldn't gain the benefits, correct?




Revised it again. Added another racial trait.

As is, that's kind of powerful for a racial trait. You should probably drop at least one of those skills, if not try to tweak this trait some more.

And you should have Ancient Laborer treat the Theg as if they were one size category larger for calculating weight capacity.




OK, patched up again.

Please take a look again. I'm going to try to explain this again; the Weight modifier is a static number. You do not roll anything to determine the Weight modifier. If your height modifier is 2d4 and your weight modifier is x7 and you roll an 8, that means you add 8 inches to the base height and 56 pounds to the base weight.

[Kane0]

Ok, that clears it up. Maybe change the wording to denote that Theg only gain/give this bonus from/to Theg of the same Hive/Colony?
And I'd reword the last sentence to be, "This is a sonic, mind-affecting ability", because I assume Undead Theg wouldn't gain the benefits, correct?

OK, changed it to allied Theg. Hmm, If it were a sentient undead Theg it would work fine, its just audiable relaying of information far more rapid than someone could shout a warning in another language. Theoretically anyone that could speak Theg could do it if fast enough.



As is, that's kind of powerful for a racial trait. You should probably drop at least one of those skills, if not try to tweak this trait some more.

Tweaked, no UMD now. I think my combination of racial abilities is on par with the dwarf's now.



And you should have Ancient Laborer treat the Theg as if they were one size category larger for calculating weight capacity.

Done.



Please take a look again. I'm going to try to explain this again; the Weight modifier is a static number. You do not roll anything to determine the Weight modifier. If your height modifier is 2d4 and your weight modifier is x7 and you roll an 8, that means you add 8 inches to the base height and 56 pounds to the base weight.

OK, got it set up just like the dwarf page you showed me now. Still, im sure the way it works is that you roll your height modifier to determine how much weight to add to the base.

[Tanuki Tales]

OK, got it set up just like the dwarf page you showed me now. Still, im sure the way it works is that you roll your height modifier to determine how much weight to add to the base.

Isn't that what I just said? :smallredface:

And you had the weight mod as a different die size from the height.

[Kane0]

Yeah that was a typo sorry :smalleek:

Anyway were on the same page now so no matter. Good luck to everyone else in the Comp.
In the meantime im going to look for a nice image to serve as a Theg piccy.

[Mulletmanalive]

The brim of my hat has just passed the edge of the ring in the form of the Bastinoi fluff. I'll see to the rest soon.

Racial enhancement classes are okay, right? Basically a 3 level prestige class that turns these critters into males or females...

[Tanuki Tales]

The brim of my hat has just passed the edge of the ring in the form of the Bastinoi fluff. I'll see to the rest soon.

Racial enhancement classes are okay, right? Basically a 3 level prestige class that turns these critters into males or females...

I guess something small would be alright. Just remember that it'll be the race that is being judged upon as that's the core of your entry.

[Mulletmanalive]

Really, the classes are just a way of keeping the racial write-up from getting too different from standard Pathfinder formatting. Not really any different from racial feats or traits...

[Tanuki Tales]

Really, the classes are just a way of keeping the racial write-up from getting too different from standard Pathfinder formatting. Not really any different from racial feats or traits...

Then that's fine. I just don't want anyone doing more work than they have to.

[Tanuki Tales]

Speaking of races and classes though:

I'm not sure when the contest will be, but keep an eye out for a contest named "A Day in the Life". That will be the contest where you'll be making a Race and a base and prestige class to go with it.

[Tanuki Tales]

Oooh, we're past 1,000 page views. Neaters.

[Tanuki Tales]

Since it looks like most of the statistics are finished and it's just a statblock that needs to be done, here's a run down on the Bastinoi.

Fluff
Are there multiple species of Bastinoi? Otherwise you want "was forcibly" not were.

Just a small nit picky thing, but Horshoe crabs actually belong to an entirely separate phylum than the other mentioned creatures. They're not crustaceans.

You forgot to capitalize "their" in the second sentence of the third paragraphs.

Are brackets more appropriate instead of parentheses when explaining how the joints for the lesser hands work?

Primary Maxilla should probably be in quotation marks.

Maxilla should be capitalized since you're referring to the same thing and it's a proper noun.

Small nitpick, but you do use the word "effect" twice to describe the same thing within two sentences.

Again, are brackets more appropriate than parentheses?

^

I feel that Food should probably be in quotation marks.

Just another comment regarding brackets and parentheses. :smalltongue:

As Characters
I think you meant "that" not a second "the" in the second sentence for Relations.

You forgot the period at the end of Alignment and Religion section.

Racial Traits
It's perceptive, not preceptive.

Alright, now the grammar stuff is out of the way, here's a breakdown on questions I have concerning the race's fluff and mechanics:

How exactly does a Bastinoi remain genderless after the age of 2?
What are the Lothori exactly? Are they an active creator race or are they long gone like the creators of the Theg?
Are they meant to be a "monstrous race"? I ask so that I can more fully critique the racial mechanics for the race.
How do you perceive this race acting as an adventurer with the common party?
Are there no Bastinoi wizards or similar classes?
You go into such detail explaining the differences between the three genders but other than height and weight there seems to be no actual mechanical differences between them.
Can Heretics be of any gender?
What made you choose those racial modifiers? And why strength instead of constitution (especially with your word choice of "hardy").


Overall, I really like what you've submitted here. You obviously put a lot of time and work into crafting this race and it is filled with minute detail that I love seen taken attention to when it comes to creating a lifeform. I'm honestly surprised that you didn't go the extra mile and come up with some racial favored class options for these guys. :smallwink:

All in all, this is definitely a race I could see using in a campaign of mine and I definitely would love to play one of these guys.

Edit:

Oh and for the record, this is probably how my future posts for run downs will be structured. I don't like how some things get mushed together into paragraphs (when there really is no cohesion). This just reads cleaner and feels more natural to my flow of thought, imo.

[Mulletmanalive]

The brackets are just a habit I picked up years ago as a result of a) writing my University essays with an American tutor [she insisted on that thrice damned Harvard quotation system, so there were a lot of brackets] and b) the fact that parentheses are in a stupid place on the keyboard compared to brackets.

If it REALLY annoys you, I'll change them, but the reason it's annoying you is a university style guide. Newspapers often use brackets exclusively because they printed better in the old days [fun facts].

Horseshoe Crabs: It does say "creatures as disparate as crabs, lobsters, horseshoe crabs..." I knew they weren't true crabs, but they're close [it's a breathing thing, i think...]

Maxilla: That's another bad habit from uni...capitolisation of new terms. Fixed.

Most of the other things have been fixed.

Other stuff:

Bastinoi can remain gender neutral by being neither cautious nor aggressive, i.e. not having either of the primary personality types. Obviously, this is rare, though i've added another paragraph explaining the phenomenon. Those who are just cold become strategists, while those who are diplomatic to a fault are usually eaten as the masters have little use for talkers, except in isolated settlements.

The Lothori are a species of aliens from my MV setting [the Bastinoi are new mind]. Giant 4-D tentacle snowflakes from Beyond Space... Mildly Lovecraftian but their main point is their advanced science [magic being the Mechano version of...it your country doesn't have Mechano...well, I pity that] and the fact that each of them has their own way of doing things. Of the 53 of them on earth...wait, 51 now, two were killed in plot...each has their own way of doing things. Some engineer minions, some create giant spider mechs, some cause political nuisance etc. Four banded together and decided to create armies of easily controlled soldiers; these being one of the results [the most common in game examples are a form of spine-latching parasite, nothing original]. They're active, pay visits and tend to be worshiped by their creations, as I hoped was indicated. I'll try to make that clearer. Bear in mind, I didn't want to info dump about the Lothori in the entry. They might seem more interesting than the Bastinoi.

What's a "Monstrous race?" They're basically intended to be like Orcs, mostly enemies but the rare heretics can form bonds with humans and go one to function as part of other societies. They suffer a bit from Wookie syndrome, but most weird raced do, at least initially.

I'm intending to create two three level classes that show the development of male and female characteristics. The males will rage and have a giant claw of doom, the females will have the ability to defend somewhat better than others of the same species and to emergency spawn young swarms. Should really get onto that...

Yes, heretics can be of any gender, though most likely male or genderless, as those seem the most likely to flee the scene, with their aggression and/or potential to disagree with the Lothori... Not sure how to note that though.

I suppose the Strength thing came from me looking at crabs and going, "yep, grappling! Erm...strength modifier? Yeah, strength modifier." The wisdom bonus gives them a bonus on Survival, which is fairly hardy seeming. If you think it should really be constitution, I'll consider changing it.

Thanks for the feedback and I'll get on those classes.

[Mulletmanalive]

Okay...seriously stumped as to what the prerequisites for the female prestige should be... I hadn't noticed this before but there's a dearth of caution and defence based feats in PF...

[Tanuki Tales]

The brackets are just a habit I picked up years ago as a result of a) writing my University essays with an American tutor [she insisted on that thrice damned Harvard quotation system, so there were a lot of brackets] and b) the fact that parentheses are in a stupid place on the keyboard compared to brackets.

If it REALLY annoys you, I'll change them, but the reason it's annoying you is a university style guide. Newspapers often use brackets exclusively because they printed better in the old days [fun facts].

It doesn't, I was just curious. I personally only use them to supplement parentheses so I was just wondering.


Horseshoe Crabs: It does say "creatures as disparate as crabs, lobsters, horseshoe crabs..." I knew they weren't true crabs, but they're close [it's a breathing thing, i think...]

Well, every one of the creatures listed except the Horseshoe Crab is a Crustacean though. The Horseshoe Crab belongs to the same sub-phylum as spiders and scorpions.




Bastinoi can remain gender neutral by being neither cautious nor aggressive, i.e. not having either of the primary personality types. Obviously, this is rare, though i've added another paragraph explaining the phenomenon. Those who are just cold become strategists, while those who are diplomatic to a fault are usually eaten as the masters have little use for talkers, except in isolated settlements.

I feel like "often" to "usefulness" should be enclosed in brackets/parentheses.


The Lothori are a species of aliens from my MV setting [the Bastinoi are new mind]. Giant 4-D tentacle snowflakes from Beyond Space... Mildly Lovecraftian but their main point is their advanced science [magic being the Mechano version of...it your country doesn't have Mechano...well, I pity that] and the fact that each of them has their own way of doing things. Of the 53 of them on earth...wait, 51 now, two were killed in plot...each has their own way of doing things. Some engineer minions, some create giant spider mechs, some cause political nuisance etc. Four banded together and decided to create armies of easily controlled soldiers; these being one of the results [the most common in game examples are a form of spine-latching parasite, nothing original]. They're active, pay visits and tend to be worshiped by their creations, as I hoped was indicated. I'll try to make that clearer. Bear in mind, I didn't want to info dump about the Lothori in the entry. They might seem more interesting than the Bastinoi.

MV setting?

Well, I admit that I was curious because of the lack of info, not because of them themselves. I mean, you've seen one Non-Euclidean beastie, you've seen them all; only the servants differ really. But if they are active you'd need at least some information so perspective DMs could work on adapting.

And I can see where you tried to infer they were active in the lives of the race but I more assumed that because you didn't specify they were dead or gone either.


What's a "Monstrous race?" They're basically intended to be like Orcs, mostly enemies but the rare heretics can form bonds with humans and go one to function as part of other societies. They suffer a bit from Wookie syndrome, but most weird raced do, at least initially.

"Monstrous race" is a term that was coined for a certain point threshold level in the playtest of the Advanced Race Guide (which drops next month and will probably affect how the race portion of this contest works from then on [depending on how efficient I feel it is once looking at it and reading other opinions on it]).

Basically when you get down to it, it's just a fancy way of saying "Monster as PC". I was basically asking if you envisioned these guys to be like Bugbears or such; intended for PC use but with CR baggage.

I mean, their racial traits are far superior to any of the base races and would warrant them being monsters.


I'm intending to create two three level classes that show the development of male and female characteristics. The males will rage and have a giant claw of doom, the females will have the ability to defend somewhat better than others of the same species and to emergency spawn young swarms. Should really get onto that...

Ah. That answers that question. I look forward to it.


Yes, heretics can be of any gender, though most likely male or genderless, as those seem the most likely to flee the scene, with their aggression and/or potential to disagree with the Lothori... Not sure how to note that though.

It was more personal curiosity; nothing you really need to note.


I suppose the Strength thing came from me looking at crabs and going, "yep, grappling! Erm...strength modifier? Yeah, strength modifier." The wisdom bonus gives them a bonus on Survival, which is fairly hardy seeming. If you think it should really be constitution, I'll consider changing it.

Ah, I can see that line of thought. I was just curious and I'd probably change the word choice from hardy. Another option could be to give them a racial bonus on grappling.


Thanks for the feedback and I'll get on those classes.
Always glad to give feedback, for what worth it is. :smallbiggrin:

[Mulletmanalive]

I tried to use he race builder playtest but i find the damn thing incomprehensible and poorly laid out.

On Golden's Guide to Race Building It comes to a 10 point race...ish.

{table]Humanoid |0 points
Non human base |0 points
-2 on a stat in an already penalised category |-1
Slow speed |-4
Feat worthy [Heavy Armour]|+4
Feat worthy [Improved Natural Attack]|+4
Claws [1d4]|+4
Swim speed of pantsness|+1 guesstimated
Can't speak languages|-1
Armed to the Teeth [+1 NA]|+4
Total|11[/table]

And if i strip out the enchanted shell thing, which was only there for adventurers, it's a 9 point race... admittedly with free armour... that's price wise, the same as an Elf in this system.

Oh, i assumed the risk/reward on the all around vision thing cancelled itself out...

[Tanuki Tales]

I tried to use he race builder playtest but i find the damn thing incomprehensible and poorly laid out.

On Golden's Guide to Race Building It comes to a 10 point race...ish.

{table]Humanoid |0 points
Non human base |0 points
-2 on a stat in an already penalised category |-1
Slow speed |-4
Feat worthy [Heavy Armour]|+4
Feat worthy [Improved Natural Attack]|+4
Claws [1d4]|+4
Swim speed of pantsness|+1 guesstimated
Can't speak languages|-1
Armed to the Teeth [+1 NA]|+4
Total|11[/table]

And if i strip out the enchanted shell thing, which was only there for adventurers, it's a 9 point race... admittedly with free armour... that's price wise, the same as an Elf in this system.

Oh, i assumed the risk/reward on the all around vision thing cancelled itself out...

As you probably noticed, Golden's guide has it's own host of errors. :smalltongue:

And your point cost is off:
You made Bastinoi Monstrous Humanoids, not Humanoids. There isn't even a real point cost for that but it's at least 2 because they get some immunity to certain spells.
Shell would be at least 20 points. Golden put any kind of AC increase at 4 points per 1 point increase. And I wouldn't take away making it enchantable since it takes up an armor slot.
I don't even know how you'd point up all-around vision, even with the weakness you threw in.


My suggestion for toning them down?

Knock Shell down to being +1 AC, +1 NA and keep scaling the same way. And then change Eyestalks to some pittance of Blindsense (i.e. a small range) but with the same weakness. Then that should all be fine with the Monstrous Humanoid type.

[Mulletmanalive]

Humanoid can do for type.

The all around vision thing is available as a feat. Conservatively with the risks, call it a +2

I still say the armour portion of the shell is inferior to being able to wear armour. It's 12th level before it matches Full Plate and it only rises two higher overall. I'll forbid enchantment, meaning they'll have to spend on non-standard items to get special armour abilities. Max Dex is 4 btw.

The +1 Natural armour, i'm not sure about. Without it, a Bastinoi is less resilient than lunch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/vermin/crab/king-crab)

Keeping the natural armour, we're at a 9 here.

[Tanuki Tales]

The all around vision thing is available as a feat. Conservatively with the risks, call it a +2

Which feat?


I still say the armour portion of the shell is inferior to being able to wear armour. It's 12th level before it matches Full Plate and it only rises two higher overall. I'll forbid enchantment, meaning they'll have to spend on non-standard items to get special armour abilities. Max Dex is 4 btw.

While true, a race getting +5 AC (+4 Armor, +1 NA) right out of the box before you look at anything else is a big thing. You can always fiddle with the scaling but it really should just start out with +1 Armor Class and +1 Natural armor.

And really, there's nothing wrong with the enchanting balance wise. If I had to give it a point value, I personally wouldn't and you'd have to argue for it to get as high as even 1 point. In fact, I think that'd add some interesting depth to the race at least visually, seeing their carapaces glowing with eldritch runes that were passed down to them by their masters.


The +1 Natural armour, i'm not sure about. Without it, a Bastinoi is less resilient than lunch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/vermin/crab/king-crab)

I never said drop it though.


Keeping the natural armour, we're at a 9 here.

Well, we're not adhering to any exact rules for this contest anyways. At least not yet. :smalltongue:

Besides, as the latter posts show, his guidelines (while better than most out there at the moment) are still somewhat borked and we'd be better off just going with our gut and peer review.

[Mulletmanalive]

Which feat?
Shrewd Tactician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shrewd-tactician-combat) though the effect i was trying to write down is only half of the feat. I knew it was here somewhere. Stance of the Xorn does the same thing too.

I'll go correct the error in my writing.


While true, a race getting +5 AC (+4 Armor, +1 NA) right out of the box before you look at anything else is a big thing. You can always fiddle with the scaling but it really should just start out with +1 Armor Class and +1 Natural armor.
:smallconfused: So...an obviously melee centric race should be capped at AC 12 + Dex?

Does not compute.


And really, there's nothing wrong with the enchanting balance wise. If I had to give it a point value, I personally wouldn't and you'd have to argue for it to get as high as even 1 point. In fact, I think that'd add some interesting depth to the race at least visually, seeing their carapaces glowing with eldritch runes that were passed down to them by their masters.

I never said drop it though.
No, but without the 5 points of protection, the non evasive portion of a Bastinoi's defence is worse than a king crab. Even with a decent dex, they're not going to be more difficult to wound than a king crab under your suggestion...


Well, we're not adhering to any exact rules for this contest anyways. At least not yet. :smalltongue:
Well, when that mess comes in, I'll stick to other things.


Besides, as the latter posts show, his guidelines (while better than most out there at the moment) are still somewhat borked and we'd be better off just going with our gut and peer review.

The Half-orcs did get shafted. Then again, Dazzled immunity would probably fit neatly into "never really comes up so costs 0 points" along with the Dwarf appraise bonus...

[Tanuki Tales]

Shrewd Tactician (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shrewd-tactician-combat) though the effect i was trying to write down is only half of the feat. I knew it was here somewhere. Stance of the Xorn does the same thing too.

Huh. Always figured that Flanking was a bigger thing than that. Guess not then.


:smallconfused: So...an obviously melee centric race should be capped at AC 12 + Dex?

Does not compute.

Well, pigeonholing a race into one role is honestly bad design. And building a race that gets +5 AC just for being their race is also bad design for a base race.

And it does compute for level 1. Heavier armors aren't cost effective until later levels and if your scaling keeps in line with that or just tip toes ahead of it, then the racial feature is both balanced and a good choice.

You don't want to make a race that screams "take me, don't think of any other race ever!" for a specific role/build. People may argue humans do this, but it's not as glaring in Pathfinder.


No, but without the 5 points of protection, the non evasive portion of a Bastinoi's defence is worse than a king crab. Even with a decent dex, they're not going to be more difficult to wound than a king crab under your suggestion...

A King Crab is a small vermin that's only CR 1/4. It's not an intelligent lifeform that can make rational decisions and make proper use of tools and other options. You don't need to be it's equal out of the box, most races are already it's better by being sentient and having a class level.

And again, these are all arguments if you want to make these guys a base race instead of a Monster race. You need to compare them to a Dwarf, Human, Elf, etc. not a monster.

I mean, you make them a CR 1 monster and you're fine since the Lizardfolk has +7 AC (5 Natural Armor, 2 from Shield) at the get go.



The Half-orcs did get shafted. Then again, Dazzled immunity would probably fit neatly into "never really comes up so costs 0 points" along with the Dwarf appraise bonus...

Right on all accounts. But that's why homebrewing doesn't occur alone or in a vacuum.

[Mulletmanalive]

Dude, a +4 armour is equal to 15gp of Hide armour and the carapace has worse penalties.

I said melee centric because they're packing two natural weapons that aren't just a gimmick so its a solid option. Out of everything, they'd probably make good monks, rangers, clerics or psionic warriors, plus the obvious barbarian and fighter.

Is reducing their starting gold a viable thing? It's not like they really need much. Bow and a shield, maybe a spear and they'd be golden...

[Golden Ladybug]

Whoo, finally got the time to sit down and reply to everything


Alright, time for another run down for the Worm-Eaten Collective.

Class skills
Why does the Worm-Eaten Collective have Disguise as a class skill if they end up taking a massive penalty to it?

That is... a very good point. Once again, it seems like I've left something from the first draft in that doesn't make sense anymore, because I changed what I wanted to do with it.


Worm-Eaten
Now this looks much better. The total HD amount cap is definitely better than having hundreds of 1-5 HD creatures. Are creatures immune to poison immune to this ability since you framed it as being a toxin?

You may wanted to mention that the nausea affects those who would be otherwise immune to it. That way someone couldn't just dip into Tarvon's Swarmlord and then progress as a caster into this class for no penalty minionmancy. And may I also suggest some unmitigated nonlethal damage on top of the nausea?

Sounds good. I don't think I want to put too much Nonlethal Damage, so it may just be 1d4/HD of Slain Horde Member, which would average out to around 20 damage if the biggest guys you've got kicking around go down.


You may want to reword this since it's a carry over from when the class feature dealt Charisma damage.

I think keeping it might be worthwhile, because the old ability isn't the only thing that deals Charisma Damage. If a WEC gets Ego Whipped, for instance, they've got that text there as a precedent for what happens to their Horde now that they're Charisma is too low to control all of it.


Master Collective
If Worm-Eaten is Ex, shouldn't this be too?

I'll add that on; I just left it off before because I was thinking of it in terms of modifying Worm-Eaten, and not being a stand alone ability, but I see what you mean.


Sacrificial Centrality
This ability still needs a cap, especially since you've changed it to up for every 20 hp (so 1 hp from 20 horde members) drained from the Horde instead of 10 from each member. A cap of 10 should be poignant, especially since it'd be a 20th level ability.

The bonuses have become untyped, but I guess that's fine for a 20th level ability.

I think that there is a miscommunication happening with this. When you drain 20HP, you don't drain 20HP throughout the Horde (so you can't take 1 HP from there, and 3 HP from there, etc). Its 20HP from every member of the Horde. If you're horde was made of 13 Creatures, you'd not be taking 20 points out of those 13, you'd be taking 260 points evenly from the lot of them. Thats why I haven't put a cap on, because if you take it to the maximum you can hold, you kill the entire Horde. I think I may lower the duration though.


Crown Worm

Can you explain why it's a Will save and then a Fortitude save for it's Burrowing Bite?

With Organization, generally mention is made of what each grouping is called.

You forgot the apostrophe in Victim's.

Also, I note these guys are just plain vermin. Could you explain what the exact vehicle for the creation of the templated creature is?

Well, the Will Save is to represent the effort of resisting the effects of the Toxin, which is busy trying to turn the brain to Mush, whereas the Fortitude Save is to force them out of your body by...iunno, flexing your muscles :smalltongue:

But seriously, its just representing the physical effort needed to get rid of them without magical healing.

And you're right, having them just be Vermin opens up all kinds of tricky questions. I'll change them to Aberration, and then I can say that the Mind Control Toxin is a result of creepy lovecraftian alien magic :smallwink:


Template
Why the inclusion of Living Constructs? They would generally seem immune to these guys (lacking a brain and all) and they don't exist in Pathfinder (it's probably product identity). Giant isn't a creature in Pathfinder, it became a subtype of Humanoid. Why are Undead susceptible but not Dragons, regular Constructs, Oozes or Outsiders?

Well, once again, my familiarity with 3.5 betrays me. The most notable example of Living Construct that I could think of was Warforged, who I've never really looked into that much (I don't know that much about Eberron), but I knew they had an Int score, so I wanted to include them as possible candidates. I shouldn't have bothered, really, because I doubt Warforged still exist in Pathfinder.

My thinking was that Undead would be very simple to take control of, as they are in general automatons in the first place. The Crown Worms get into them, override whatever is controlling them in the first place (for them, the Will Save would probably be whatever force controlling them is coming up against the Crown Worm's influence) and then plugging them into the Collective.

Dragons should probably be a candidate for control, but for Constructs, Oozes and Outsiders? Well...

http://www.kourtnie.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/recipe_cube.jpg http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98664.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG158.jpg

I just didn't think the Worms would have much luck with them :smallbiggrin:


Why does it lose it's natural armor bonus?

For similar reasons that I changed the Natural Armor boosts in the WEC to DR.


You should probably just note it has the Mindless ability:

Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). A Worm-Eaten Creature with an Intelligence score loses this trait.

Good Call.


Why does it have immunity to Fortitude saves?

A Very good question, and one I'm not quite sure of myself. I'll leave that one off.

[Tanuki Tales]

Dude, a +4 armour is equal to 15gp of Hide armour and the carapace has worse penalties.

I still have a nagging gut feeling about giving that much from just picking the race. I still feel that it should be +1/+1 and just change the scaling so it stays ahead of the other armors. I mean, these guys do blow most other melee choices out of the water, but it's a point I'm willing to concede and leave the final decisions up to you and the voters.


I said melee centric because they're packing two natural weapons that aren't just a gimmick so its a solid option. Out of everything, they'd probably make good monks, rangers, clerics or psionic warriors, plus the obvious barbarian and fighter.

Just checking. I trust your skill at homebrewing to not fall for those pitfalls, but I am trying to do my best at critiquing these submissions with a fine tooth combed. :smallredface:


Is reducing their starting gold a viable thing? It's not like they really need much. Bow and a shield, maybe a spear and they'd be golden...

I don't know how you'd do this through racial traits unless their body consumed and processed gold. But as I said, it's a point I'm willing to concede.



Whoo, finally got the time to sit down and reply to everything

Good to see you back! =D




Sounds good. I don't think I want to put too much Nonlethal Damage, so it may just be 1d4/HD of Slain Horde Member, which would average out to around 20 damage if the biggest guys you've got kicking around go down.

That should work.




I think keeping it might be worthwhile, because the old ability isn't the only thing that deals Charisma Damage. If a WEC gets Ego Whipped, for instance, they've got that text there as a precedent for what happens to their Horde now that they're Charisma is too low to control all of it.

I meant the wording. I may just being seeing it because I knew what originally came before the current version of the ability, but I feel like the current wording was chosen and arranged to be follow up rules text to an ability that did Charisma damage instead of being rules text that explains what happens when you take Charisma damage.



I think that there is a miscommunication happening with this. When you drain 20HP, you don't drain 20HP throughout the Horde (so you can't take 1 HP from there, and 3 HP from there, etc). Its 20HP from every member of the Horde. If you're horde was made of 13 Creatures, you'd not be taking 20 points out of those 13, you'd be taking 260 points evenly from the lot of them. Thats why I haven't put a cap on, because if you take it to the maximum you can hold, you kill the entire Horde. I think I may lower the duration though.


can decrease the hit point total of every member of her Horde as an Immediate action, and for every 20 Hit Points drained from her entire Horde[/b]

That's the bit that's creating the miscommunication. If you just change the wording from "from her entire Horde" to "from each Horde Member" it eliminates the interpretation that I saw.

With that change, as a 20th level ability, no cap should be fine.



[quote]Well, the Will Save is to represent the effort of resisting the effects of the Toxin, which is busy trying to turn the brain to Mush, whereas the Fortitude Save is to force them out of your body by...iunno, flexing your muscles :smalltongue:

But seriously, its just representing the physical effort needed to get rid of them without magical healing.

Well, shouldn't it be Fortitude and then Will? Resisting it burrowing in first and then resisting it's mind affecting effects?


And you're right, having them just be Vermin opens up all kinds of tricky questions. I'll change them to Aberration, and then I can say that the Mind Control Toxin is a result of creepy lovecraftian alien magic :smallwink:

And they'd probably be a relative of the Mind Flayer if this was 3.5. xD

But yeah, with it stopping being a toxin and being mystical in nature, this is answers a lot of questions.




Well, once again, my familiarity with 3.5 betrays me. The most notable example of Living Construct that I could think of was Warforged, who I've never really looked into that much (I don't know that much about Eberron), but I knew they had an Int score, so I wanted to include them as possible candidates. I shouldn't have bothered, really, because I doubt Warforged still exist in Pathfinder.

It's fine, twas just curious. But yeah, Warforged are IP of WoTC and I doubt they'll make living constructs in Pathfinder, at least for easy PC use. They view them as too overpowered.


My thinking was that Undead would be very simple to take control of, as they are in general automatons in the first place. The Crown Worms get into them, override whatever is controlling them in the first place (for them, the Will Save would probably be whatever force controlling them is coming up against the Crown Worm's influence) and then plugging them into the Collective.

This was more a question back when a poison applied the template and not creepy non-euclidean magic. xD


Dragons should probably be a candidate for control, but for Constructs, Oozes and Outsiders? Well...

http://www.kourtnie.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/recipe_cube.jpg http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98664.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG158.jpg

I just didn't think the Worms would have much luck with them :smallbiggrin:

Well, Elementals are unique as Outsiders anyways. :smalltongue:

These guys can't infect Succubi or Angels?

Oozes were just thrown in for complete sake and to see what you'd you say.

Fun fact though: Inevitables aren't Constructs in Pathfinder. They're Outsiders with Construct traits. Got a Con score and Regen and everything.





For similar reasons that I changed the Natural Armor boosts in the WEC to DR.

But why do they lose it from a fluff point? A degeneration of the body? Would a snake infected lose its scales? Would a crab it's shell?

[Tanuki Tales]

10 days left of this month's competition everyone!

Hopefully we'll see some last minute entries but I'm otherwise very pleased with the turn out this contest has seen.

I'm grateful for each and every entry and hope this will be the beginning of a beautiful thing. :smallsmile:

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright every one, we're in the home stretch of it now! The final week is upon us and without further ado, I shall be revealing the name of next month's contest. In honor of the upcoming Bram Stoker Centenary Conference, I give you:



The Path to Castle Ravenloft

[Golden Ladybug]

Well, ain't that ominous... Sounds fun :smallbiggrin:

Once again, sorry for the delay in-between posts; I have been having a HELL of a week :smallmad:


I meant the wording. I may just being seeing it because I knew what originally came before the current version of the ability, but I feel like the current wording was chosen and arranged to be follow up rules text to an ability that did Charisma damage instead of being rules text that explains what happens when you take Charisma damage.

Okay, I'll see what I can do about making it more accessible.


That's the bit that's creating the miscommunication. If you just change the wording from "from her entire Horde" to "from each Horde Member" it eliminates the interpretation that I saw.

With that change, as a 20th level ability, no cap should be fine.

Easy. Fixing that first :smallwink:


Well, shouldn't it be Fortitude and then Will? Resisting it burrowing in first and then resisting it's mind affecting effects?

Okay, I like that. Fort -> Will it is.


And they'd probably be a relative of the Mind Flayer if this was 3.5. xD

But yeah, with it stopping being a toxin and being mystical in nature, this is answers a lot of questions.

Aren't every Aberration? :smalltongue:


It's fine, twas just curious. But yeah, Warforged are IP of WoTC and I doubt they'll make living constructs in Pathfinder, at least for easy PC use. They view them as too overpowered.

Fair enough. Construct Immunities are pretty potent, and scaling them up when they get Pathfinder-ised wouldn't be a good balance call.


This was more a question back when a poison applied the template and not creepy non-euclidean magic. xD

Once again, Aberrations fix everything!

...wait, Aberrations normally make everything worsasrfdghyhcb.

DISREGARD PREVIOUS STATEMENTS HUMANS. ABERRATIONS ARE ALWAYS BENEFICIAL.


Well, Elementals are unique as Outsiders anyways. :smalltongue:

These guys can't infect Succubi or Angels?

Oozes were just thrown in for complete sake and to see what you'd you say.

Fun fact though: Inevitables aren't Constructs in Pathfinder. They're Outsiders with Construct traits. Got a Con score and Regen and everything.

Nope. Outsiders are, by their very definition, a being of soul and body combined, and contain the essence of their own plane of existence. They are fundamentally different from all the other creatures (except for some Aberrations, but I think that its justified the Crown Worm has some luck with them) the Crown Worm can start chowing on.

That's interesting. I always liked the Inevitables, will have to take a look at their PF version.


But why do they lose it from a fluff point? A degeneration of the body? Would a snake infected lose its scales? Would a crab it's shell?

Degeneration, all day erry day :smallwink:

And I would say so, at least in some places. Worms would be poking out of them, so those Scales/Shell would be displaced at the very least.

Tidying up the WEC now.

[Milo v3]

Alright every one, we're in the home stretch of it now! The final week is upon us and without further ado, I shall be revealing the name of next month's contest. In honor of the upcoming Bram Stoker Centenary Conference, I give you:



The Path to Castle Ravenloft

Sounds Gothic.... Vampiric... Bloody... Ruthless.... Interesting...

[Mulletmanalive]

Right, I think i've finished my entry. Nothing screams that it needs amending.


Sounds Gothic.... Vampiric... Bloody... Ruthless.... Interesting...

While i remember, Milo, why on earth would a Spider creature ever be "willingl to be dominated permenantly? There seems to be nothing in it for the spider and they're too stupid to make the conscious decision to lower their save, being mindless...

The capstone on your assassin makes no sense O.o

[Milo v3]

Right, I think i've finished my entry. Nothing screams that it needs amending.



While i remember, Milo, why on earth would a Spider creature ever be "willingl to be dominated permenantly? There seems to be nothing in it for the spider and they're too stupid to make the conscious decision to lower their save, being mindless...

The capstone on your assassin makes no sense O.o

Firstly some spiderkind are sentient, not all are Monstrous Spiders. Secondly why do animals be willing animal companions? You can affect most of spider kind with Animal Handling as most are magical beasts so you can convince them to be friendly to youl. Also you could use Charm Monster on all of spidekind except for Monstrous. And lastly in my games you can use Handle Animal on vermin.

[Mulletmanalive]

Firstly some spiderkind are sentient, not all are Monstrous Spiders. Secondly why do animals be willing animal companions? You can affect most of spider kind with Animal Handling as most are magical beasts so you can convince them to be friendly to youl. Also you could use Charm Monster on all of spidekind except for Monstrous. And lastly in my games you can use Handle Animal on vermin.

Okay...that answers none of my questions.

My best friend says that he'd like to magically dominate me to his will, forever. I ask what on earth is in it for me. He just shrugs. I refuse. Capstone doesn't work.

That covers all the sentient and charmed options. Don't work. There is no reason for anyone to agree to the ability being used on them.

You don't Dominate Animal Companions and they're more than able of disobeying you [as I've learned to my annoyance]. Okay, they're very amenable to doing what you tell them but that's something different.

Assuming that people use your houserules is a failure in design, especially in a competition. You have to assume that the core rules, as published, are those the recipient is using.

Make them Animal Companions, make it a summon ability, anything; as it is, the class feature just won't work; it's dominate that requires a willing recipient for no benefit to the victim. Not going to happen.

[Milo v3]

Okay...that answers none of my questions.

My best friend says that he'd like to magically dominate me to his will, forever. I ask what on earth is in it for me. He just shrugs. I refuse. Capstone doesn't work.

That covers all the sentient and charmed options. Don't work. There is no reason for anyone to agree to the ability being used on them.

You don't Dominate Animal Companions and they're more than able of disobeying you [as I've learned to my annoyance]. Okay, they're very amenable to doing what you tell them but that's something different.

Assuming that people use your houserules is a failure in design, especially in a competition. You have to assume that the core rules, as published, are those the recipient is using.

Make them Animal Companions, make it a summon ability, anything; as it is, the class feature just won't work; it's dominate that requires a willing recipient for no benefit to the victim. Not going to happen.

Firstly you already can get Animal Companion as one of your techniques. Giving it as a capestone would be pointless and penalize anyone who already had it.

Secondly I didn't assue that people use that houserule thats why it was the very last of my points. If I thought that was a good enough reason for the whole thing it would've been my only point, but I knew that not everybody does it so it is of less relevance. Thus I placed it at the end.

Thirdly if you are friendly with a mindless creature via charm monster or a houserule they don't really care whether or not you dominate them. But this is a null point against the magical beast Spiderkind and I'm aware of that.

But I understand your overall point. I'll change it, abeit probably only slightly.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alrighty, time for a run down on the prestige classes and racial feats for the Bastinoi.

Male
Rage: Why is it 3 per Class level and not 3+Con mod with additional being added per level like the Barbarian?
Feeding Frenzy: Does the Male have to be raging in order to use this ability?
Naseuating Pin: Could you explain the thought process behind this ability?

Female
Emergency Hatching/Reactive Hatching: How long do the swarms last? Do they always follow the female around and eventually mature for greater minionmancy?



Racial Feats
Defensive Clawwork: What exactly does this feat do?

[Mulletmanalive]

Alrighty, time for a run down on the prestige classes and racial feats for the Bastinoi.

Male
Rage: Why is it 3 per Class level and not 3+Con mod with additional being added per level like the Barbarian?
Feeding Frenzy: Does the Male have to be raging in order to use this ability?
Naseuating Pin: Could you explain the thought process behind this ability?
The rage thing is because i didn't want to add Con score again if they were a Barbarian already but I wanted them to have a passable number of rounds to play with if they weren't. This way, there's a very slight advantage to being a Barbarian/Bastinoi Male, in order to make up for the loss of Tireless and Mighty Rage.

Edited Feeding Frenzy to say "until the end of the encounter" rather than that business about raging. Now you can use it outside a rage, but the bonus rounds are less useful [as an encounter is, like, 5 minutes outside combat].

The idea was that they basically crush the opponent in a certain way during the pin action to nauseate the victim with pain. This would leave them to do actual damage for at least one round without worrying about the enemy breaking free. I'm very much thinking it wasn't a particularly good ability. Probably replace it.



Female
Emergency Hatching/Reactive Hatching: How long do the swarms last? Do they always follow the female around and eventually mature for greater minionmancy?

I'd not really thought of that... originally, i was just going to go with the mother eating them, like it would happen in nature but i guess i thought that was too...i dunno, real? Any suggestions?



Racial Feats
Defensive Clawwork: What exactly does this feat do?

+2 AC if you're using manufactured weapons, the ability to enchant your claws and access to shield specific enchantments. I'll look over the wording again.

[Tanuki Tales]

The rage thing is because i didn't want to add Con score again if they were a Barbarian already but I wanted them to have a passable number of rounds to play with if they weren't. This way, there's a very slight advantage to being a Barbarian/Bastinoi Male, in order to make up for the loss of Tireless and Mighty Rage.

Edited Feeding Frenzy to say "until the end of the encounter" rather than that business about raging. Now you can use it outside a rage, but the bonus rounds are less useful [as an encounter is, like, 5 minutes outside combat].

The idea was that they basically crush the opponent in a certain way during the pin action to nauseate the victim with pain. This would leave them to do actual damage for at least one round without worrying about the enemy breaking free. I'm very much thinking it wasn't a particularly good ability. Probably replace it.

Alrighty.



I'd not really thought of that... originally, i was just going to go with the mother eating them, like it would happen in nature but i guess i thought that was too...i dunno, real? Any suggestions?

Maybe she can eat them for a healing effect?




+2 AC if you're using manufactured weapons, the ability to enchant your claws and access to shield specific enchantments. I'll look over the wording again.

Alrighty.

[Tanuki Tales]

Last two days of this month's contest folks. If you have any last minute changes or polishing to take care of, you might want to do them now.

Oh and Mullet, before I forget, you didn't complete the Bastinoi statblock you provided.

[Tanuki Tales]

About 10.5 hours are left in this contest folks!

6 entries is an amazing turn out for the first itteration of this contest, though I will admit that I'm sad to see that some folks didn't get a chance to end up submitting an entry this time around.

But who knows, we could still get an amazing, dazzling last minute entry! :smallbiggrin:

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, both the voting thread for Creepy Crawlers and the thread for the new contest are up!

[Milo v3]

I'll be in the Ravenloft Competition. I've just reserved space for my entry, which will be a class based around blood and knowledge.

Also good luck to all my fellow competitors for the first competition.

Edit: I've now added in the Sanguine Inquisitor's fluff.

[Golden Ladybug]

Welp, I know next to nothing about Gothic Horror. It is one of those genres that, for one reason or another, I've never really been exposed to.

Time to do some research :smallbiggrin:

[Benly]

Would an oracle mystery be an acceptable entry? Given that each mystery has ten revelations plus a capstone along with its skills and bonus spells, it would be more rules material than most races or a short PrC.

[Milo v3]

The idea behind my entry is a class which is like a Lovecraftian Templar from the middle ages who has power over blood. It starts off as a pure knight, and ends up as a corrupt paladin who believes he is still doing good.

Also, does the Sanguine Inquisitor's Code of Conduct seem to harsh?

[Tanuki Tales]

Would an oracle mystery be an acceptable entry? Given that each mystery has ten revelations plus a capstone along with its skills and bonus spells, it would be more rules material than most races or a short PrC.

I put a lot of thought into allowing archetypes and things like Oracle Mysteries as general, "every contest" entries and got opinion from other contest runners and I came to the conclusion that they don't require the same amount of work as the other entry types.

Yes, they may have more rules text than some other entries, but they require less fluff work and less balancing. So while that's an idea for a contest all by itself, for the time being I'll have to say no.

[Benly]

I put a lot of thought into allowing archetypes and things like Oracle Mysteries as general, "every contest" entries and got opinion from other contest runners and I came to the conclusion that they don't require the same amount of work as the other entry types.

Yes, they may have more rules text than some other entries, but they require less fluff work and less balancing. So while that's an idea for a contest all by itself, for the time being I'll have to say no.

That's fair I suppose, although I question the assertion that an oracle mystery requires less balancing than a race - there's a lot more potential for variability in power and non-obvious brokenness with a mystery than with a race, since generally any way that a race is broken or otherwise off-target for power will be very up-front and straightforward.

That said, oracle mysteries are probably the meatiest category of "class builds" - things like domains, knightly orders, or sorcerer heritages have a lot less to them, so excluding the class-build category in general is understandable.

[Tanuki Tales]

That's fair I suppose, although I question the assertion that an oracle mystery requires less balancing than a race - there's a lot more potential for variability in power and non-obvious brokenness with a mystery than with a race, since generally any way that a race is broken or otherwise off-target for power will be very up-front and straightforward.

The difference is that you need to balance the Mysteries with other Mysteries and with the Oracle class itself as compared to what you need to balance and build the other entries around.

I concede that there is some merit to what you're saying and that it is most certainly something that could be discussed at length, but for the time being archetypes and "class builds" won't be included as a staple entry category for the contest.


That said, oracle mysteries are probably the meatiest category of "class builds" - things like domains, knightly orders, or sorcerer heritages have a lot less to them, so excluding the class-build category in general is understandable.

Well, if there any takers, I'm more than willingly to devote one of these contests solely to creating "class builds".

[Benly]

I concede that there is some merit to what you're saying and that it is most certainly something that could be discussed at length, but for the time being archetypes and "class builds" won't be included as a staple entry category for the contest.


Oh, yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to come off like I was trying to harass you into accepting class builds or whatnot. I just find races easier to balance because they're frankly a lot less complex than pretty much any other option at hand - base classes are a lot more content than a class build more or less by definition, and prestige classes about the same depending on the PrC length and the class-build type.

PrCs in a Pathfinder contest do seem a little weird to me since Pathfinder has overall moved away from the PrC as a standard build element, but that really just means that the PrCs need to be judged by Pathfinder's more-specialized PrC standards rather than the 3.5 "PrC for every occasion" standards. So, yeah, basically this is just me rambling on my thoughts about PF vs. 3.5 design, pay no mind.

[Tanuki Tales]

Oh, yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to come off like I was trying to harass you into accepting class builds or whatnot. I just find races easier to balance because they're frankly a lot less complex than pretty much any other option at hand - base classes are a lot more content than a class build more or less by definition, and prestige classes about the same depending on the PrC length and the class-build type.

Well, while that is true, races need more serious fluff for them to compete as entries as you can see with the Theg or Bastinoi. So while they may be the easiest entry in some ways mechanically (since not everyone is good at building a balanced base race) they are most certainly the most flavor and fluff intensive in requirements.[/quote]

Oh, I know you weren't, I just didn't want to come off like I was rejecting it out of hand. It was, as I mentioned, something I put a lot of thought into when I was originally devising the PGBC and something I had originally hoped to include, but it just didn't seemed feasible or fair since those things always have a base class to rely back upon in the long run and other reasons I've mentioned.


PrCs in a Pathfinder contest do seem a little weird to me since Pathfinder has overall moved away from the PrC as a standard build element, but that really just means that the PrCs need to be judged by Pathfinder's more-specialized PrC standards rather than the 3.5 "PrC for every occasion" standards. So, yeah, basically this is just me rambling on my thoughts about PF vs. 3.5 design, pay no mind.

Oh, I hear you. But that's exactly why I included them as an entry option since it would mean that they would be very specialized and unique instead of "Mash X Class with Y Class" or "Make Base Class A viable" or "Overpower the Caster more".

[Tanuki Tales]

So Milo doesn't feel like I completely missed his post, here's the run down for Sanguine Inquisitor!


Fluff
Is the line about the mother protecting her children necessary? The other two examples don't have such specifications?
"An Inquisitor with blood" reads kind of odd to me.
I would reword this middle bit entirely. The first sentence is vague enough that from the fluff alone there's no designation between the "weak powers/strong powers" vibe you're trying to set up.
"in the later stages of the" what stages does that refer to?


Role
I feel that the last sentence is a little superfluous.

Religion
You forgot the apostrophe in "Inquisitor's".
I think you meant "good aligned god" and not "good aligned good".

Class Features

Blood Mark
The wording is a little clunky. I'd go more along the lines of "As a standard action the Sanguine Inquisitor may make a melee touch attack. If the attack is successful, the target is dealt 1d4 lethal damage as the target's blood is drained from them and suffuses the Sanguine Inquisitor. The Sanguine Inquisitor may instead choose to deal 1 nonlethal damage when using this ability.

The successful use of this ability grants the Sanguine Inquisitor a Blood Mark (determined by the creature's type and as noted below). The maximum amount of Blood Marks that a Sanguine Inquisitor is allotted is noted on the table above.

A Sanguine Inquisitor may only use this ability on the following creatures:
Aberrations
Animals
Dragons
Fey
Humanoids
Magical Beasts
Monstrous Humanoids
Outsiders (except those with the Elemental subtype)
Vermin"

Blood Points
This ability should probably have a tag since Blood Mark did.
"Rest" covers both sleep and anything that isn't strenuous activity so the last part of the last sentence is a little redundant.


Blood Never Lies
You forgot the apostrophe in "target's".
I would suggest cleaning up the wording of this ability, it's a little clunky.
I think you meant "existence" not "existance".

Intuition
I think you meant "Intuition" not "Intution".
You forgot to capitalize Sanguine Inquisitor and Inquisitor in the second sentence.

Sanguine Gift
I think meant "This ability then acts as" not "This ability the acts as".

Sanguine Taint
I think meant "This ability then acts as" not "This ability the acts as".
Bane is a first level spell so the Save DC for this isn't any different than normal.

Smite Heretic
I think you meant "half his Charisma bonus" instead of "his half Charisma bonus".
I think you meant "a creature" not "an creature."
I think you meant "his smite" not "her smite".
The end of the fourth sentence is a little wordy and redundant. You probably only need up to "instead of only half".
I think you meant "his Charisma bonus" not "her Charisma Bonus"
The text in parenthesis in the third paragraph is redundant since "2 or lower" covers creatures with intelligence scores of "0" and "-".
I think you meant "may use Smite Heretic" instead of "may smite heretic".

Sanguine Trail
I think you meant "affects a creature the Sanguine Inquisitor" instead of "affects a creature Inquisitor".
I think you meant "then acts" not "the acts".

Bloodline Transfusion
I think you meant "as a full round action" instead of "a full round action". I also think something like "and, as a full round action, gains the traits" would sound better. Actually, I feel like you may want to reword this whole ability and clean it up.

Code of Conduct
I think you mean "Defenseless" not "Defenceless".


Well, that's the grammar bit for now.

I'll give a more complete run down when the class is complete and yes, I think the code of conduct is a little much and could use some further definition.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, the voting thread is closed. Congratulations to Milo for coming in first place with his Spider Blood Assassin!

I will be sending out the trophies in the next few days.

Happy Easter all.

[Tanuki Tales]

And all the trophies have been sent to those who won and they are theirs to do with as they see fit.

Now to go fiddle with my Devianart account...

Looking forward to seeing more entries this time around everyone!

[Milo v3]

Yay! :smallsmile:
Thanks to everyone who voted for me and Troll Bräu for the trophy. :smallsmile:

[Kane0]

Woot!

Thanks all! I shall hold my trophy proudly!

[TARDIS]

Well now this looks extremely interesting here - glad I rejoined in time for this! As someone who has a literal library full of this stuff that I've been tinkering with for a few years now. Heck, I've got a 40 page ebook on horrors and closet monsters - but that might go beyond the scope of this challenge, I presume. I guess the trick will be to choose the best of my best...

*cue glasses*

Challenge accepted :smallamused:

[Tanuki Tales]

Yay! :smallsmile:
Thanks to everyone who voted for me and Troll Bräu for the trophy. :smallsmile:

You're very welcome.


Woot!

Thanks all! I shall hold my trophy proudly!

You also, are very welcome!


Well now this looks extremely interesting here - glad I rejoined in time for this! As someone who has a literal library full of this stuff that I've been tinkering with for a few years now. Heck, I've got a 40 page ebook on horrors and closet monsters - but that might go beyond the scope of this challenge, I presume. I guess the trick will be to choose the best of my best...

*cue glasses*

Challenge accepted :smallamused:

As long as none of them have already been posted here or on another website for PEACHing or submission for some contest or something, you're free to submit one of them.




Here we are and it's the 12th and only one half completed entry. I hope things live-in up soon. :smallfrown:

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, there's still 13 days left and I'm trying to be optimistic, but I think this month's contest might just be a bust. :smallfrown:

[Golden Ladybug]

Really sorry everyone, I completely forgot about writing my entry for this. I'll get onto it now :smallredface:

[Golden Ladybug]

Okay, so that should be finished. Any opinions or suggestions for the Paranormal Seeker?

[Tanuki Tales]

Okay, so that should be finished. Any opinions or suggestions for the Paranormal Seeker?

I'll take a look as soon as I'm actually awake. xD

[Tanuki Tales]

Alrighty, time for a run down on The Paranormal Seeker.


Fluff
I think you meant "It's a big world" not "Its a big world".

Role
The grammar of the first sentence is wonky. You have Paranormal Seeker as a singular term at the beginning and then have Melee Fighters at the end, which would entail the subject being plural.
Range isn't really a proper noun, so it shouldn't be capitalized.


Magic Device Affinity
For some reason I just feel like if you capitalize Arcane, then arts should be as well or both should be uncapitalized.
"Item" isn't exactly a proper noun in this case so it probably shouldn't be capitalized.

Deceive Magical Device
Again, not really sure on "Item" being a proper noun.

Circumvent Defenses
You didn't mention what level this was gained at.

Discern Truth
I think you meant "At 10th level, the Paranormal Seeker".
"Illusions" looks like it would be better off as just "Illusion" with how you've worded the sentence.



Alrighty, now that the grammar is all said and done, let's move on to my thoughts and questions!


Hehe. Harry Dresden?
Just a small thing, because otherwise the entry is fine, but could you possiblely play up the Horror angle more in the fluff? It sounds kind of Buffyish when the mood is more Hellboy/Lovecraftian.
Track? Really? I mean, that's kind of a craptastic entry requirement in all honesty, especially since it's just Railroading in feat form. It's makes sense and all with the class' flavor, but still.
What class do you see as being the best entry for this class? The skills it gets read "Skill Monkey" to me but its skill points per level read "Barbarian".
I see 3 Dead levels. Dead levels are bad. This class is already very simple, straight forward and utilitarian for a non-caster so you could add in more features to make it unique. Maybe some "He who Fights Monsters" vibe?
I know that Spell Resistance is an Extraordinary special quality, but the rest of Annul Magic reads like it would be Supernatural. How do you envision this class feature functions as Extraordinary?
For Unnatural Lore, you should probably define what "monsters" encapsulates since Orcs, Drow and Kobolds are in the Bestiary too.
I like this Prestige class because it's so simplistic and something that you could see easily applied in any game, especially for people who build anti-casters. It's not overtly strong or unique though, so it makes me wonder if it could be condensed into some kind of Archetype.

[Golden Ladybug]

Okay, grammar issues and capitalising random words. My eternal foes. I'll get onto that.


Hehe. Harry Dresden?

Well, kinda, but coming from the opposite direction. And how could I say no to such a cool picture :smallcool:


Just a small thing, because otherwise the entry is fine, but could you possiblely play up the Horror angle more in the fluff? It sounds kind of Buffyish when the mood is more Hellboy/Lovecraftian.

Yeah, I thought so a little too. I'll work on that.


Track? Really? I mean, that's kind of a craptastic entry requirement in all honesty, especially since it's just Railroading in feat form. It's makes sense and all with the class' flavor, but still.

Well, it makes for an easy Ranger entry. If its that much of a problem, I can change it to something else though?


What class do you see as being the best entry for this class? The skills it gets read "Skill Monkey" to me but its skill points per level read "Barbarian".

Ranger. Gets all the Skills, has similar flavor and gets the crappy entry feat for free.

Bow-ties Rangers are cool.


I see 3 Dead levels. Dead levels are bad. This class is already very simple, straight forward and utilitarian for a non-caster so you could add in more features to make it unique. Maybe some "He who Fights Monsters" vibe?

Noted. I thought I'd mapped Annul Magic's progression to those dead levels, but the best of plans... Anyway, I'll get to work on fleshing it out.


I know that Spell Resistance is an Extraordinary special quality, but the rest of Annul Magic reads like it would be Supernatural. How do you envision this class feature functions as Extraordinary?

PUNCH THE MAGIC!

...Well, for the first progression of Annul Magic, my image is that of a mental struggle to fight off whatever magic is affecting the Seeker. Trapped in a Solid Fog? Willpower your way out of there.

The second progression is an extension of the Spell Resistance. Simply being in the Paranormal Seeker's presence dampens magic, and makes it harder to use. So, if Spell Resistance is a forcefield that protects you against spells, this ability represents that field extending out a little bit.


For Unnatural Lore, you should probably define what "monsters" encapsulates since Orcs, Drow and Kobolds are in the Bestiary too.

I don't see what's so bad about giving it bonuses against mundane monsters as well. If you spend your time searching for creatures that have no regard to euclidean geometry, you're bound to pick up some stories about the more mundane.


I like this Prestige class because it's so simplistic and something that you could see easily applied in any game, especially for people who build anti-casters. It's not overtly strong or unique though, so it makes me wonder if it could be condensed into some kind of Archetype.

Hmm, okay, that makes sense. I suppose that, as it stands, I could convert this into a Ranger Archtype rather than a Prestige Class. I'll consider doing that, or reworking the flavor to fit the theme a bit better (I have had very little exposure to Gothic Horror, as I've said before, so I'm flying ever so slightly blind at the moment) and beefing it up a bit.

[Milo v3]

Sorry for my entry taking so long, I've been doing work on huge project recently and it is taking up most of my time. It should be finished relatively soon though.
I'm going to finish all the mechanics ASAP then do the Bloodlines last.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, kinda, but coming from the opposite direction. And how could I say no to such a cool picture :smallcool:

Hehe.



Well, it makes for an easy Ranger entry. If its that much of a problem, I can change it to something else though?

It's just that the feat is kind of a waste in of itself. I mean, it doesn't exactly do anything since it's the DM's decision if you actually reach the quarry and when.

If no other feat meets your tastes, you could always homebrew one.




Ranger. Gets all the Skills, has similar flavor and gets the crappy entry feat for free.

Bow-ties Rangers are cool.

Well, why the lower skill points then?



PUNCH THE MAGIC!

...Well, for the first progression of Annul Magic, my image is that of a mental struggle to fight off whatever magic is affecting the Seeker. Trapped in a Solid Fog? Willpower your way out of there.

The second progression is an extension of the Spell Resistance. Simply being in the Paranormal Seeker's presence dampens magic, and makes it harder to use. So, if Spell Resistance is a forcefield that protects you against spells, this ability represents that field extending out a little bit.

Works for me. :smallbiggrin:




I don't see what's so bad about giving it bonuses against mundane monsters as well. If you spend your time searching for creatures that have no regard to euclidean geometry, you're bound to pick up some stories about the more mundane.

I meant more that you should define what's a Monster and what isn't for the purpose of the ability.

It's not the case as much for Pathfinder as it was for 3.5, but as V said:

"We are all in the Monster Manual somewhere, are we not? My entry lies between Elemental and Etheral Filcher."





Hmm, okay, that makes sense. I suppose that, as it stands, I could convert this into a Ranger Archtype rather than a Prestige Class. I'll consider doing that, or reworking the flavor to fit the theme a bit better (I have had very little exposure to Gothic Horror, as I've said before, so I'm flying ever so slightly blind at the moment) and beefing it up a bit.

You just need to beef it up is all. ^_^

And it's alright, take your time and learn all you can!


Sorry for my entry taking so long, I've been doing work on huge project recently and it is taking up most of my time. It should be finished relatively soon though.
I'm going to finish all the mechanics ASAP then do the Bloodlines last.

It's fine, take your time. Real world junk is more important.

[Milo v3]

It's fine, take your time. Real world junk is more important.

I actually ment this project. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234102) Which is why I'm saying sorry.

[Milo v3]

I've finished the class. I still have to do 11 of the Bloodlines though, but I would appreciate any comments about the class in general.

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry guys for being AWOL. I'll try to get in a rundown tonight or tomorrow, I've just started a massive project of creating my own game system. :smallredface:

[Warpwolf16]

I'm curious if a mad/super science competition would ever be conceived through this, I'd post an entry if I could since this is the first time I've seen this going on and seems I've arrived to late.:nale:

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm curious if a mad/super science competition would ever be conceived through this, I'd post an entry if I could since this is the first time I've seen this going on and seems I've arrived to late.:nale:

You have 5 days left till the end of this competition. =O

And I'll tuck away that idea for another comp. :smallwink:

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, time for another rundown on the Sanguine Inquisitor!


Fluff
It should be "man a king or a boy a mage". As it is right only sounds right to me if there were more things to be listed.
I think you meant "sees" not "see's".

Alignment
I think you meant "descend" not "decend".

Blood Mark
There probably should be parentheses around "without the Elemental subtype".

Blood Never Lies
I think you meant "Detect Thoughts on a single creature" not "Detect Thoughts single creature".
But would be more appropriate than and for "they believe".

Smite Heretic
You have some copy/paste errors in there. You mix up your gender pronouns and didn't replace all instance of paladin.


Bloodline Transfusion
I think you meant "fulfills" not "fulfil".
I would suggest wording it as "Select one ability from that specific Bloodline which you have access to" or something similar.

Whispers in the Dark
I think you meant "ninth" not "nineth".

Sanguine Wine
There probably should be parentheses around "without the Elemental subtype".

Empowered Bloodline
I think you meant "thirteenth" not "thriteenth".

Sanguine Rupture
I think you meant "the damage that the Sanguine" instead of "the damage Sanguine".

Noble Blood
I think you meant "can manipulate" not "he can manipulate".

Elixir of Life
I think you meant "can create" not "he can create".

Sanguine Proclamation
I think you meant "can manipulate" not "he can manipulate".


That's it for the grammar portion for now. This is a big class with a lot of stuff and I don't want to try and tackle all of it at once. So the Bloodlines and other bits can wait till later.


First thing I'd like to know is, why a good deity? What limits this class from drawing power from neutral or evil deities? And even if they stick to the code, if the god is granting direct power, why not just rip the power from them as the deity should for a fallen disciple?
Why is a front-line fighter saddled with a d6 hit dice?
You need to be more specific with what a "Blood Mark" is. I can assume you mean that when something is cast or done for a creature with a Blood Mark for, that the ability is targeting them and not creatures of that type or something else.
Why does this class so heavily concentrate on Charisma? When I think of blood based classes, I think of Constitution being the focused score. I'd probably split between the two scores, with the physical end being Con based (like Blood points and such and the mystic end being Charisma.
Two words: Feature Glut. Before even looking at Bloodlines, this class gets 24 separate class features. I would suggest taking all those class features that mimic spells and just combining them into one single class feature. Dead levels on a table is fine as long as they aren't actual dead levels.
The spell mimicking class features are kind of weird. You give them a much higher Caster level but then give them wildly fluctuating saves (some are too high, some are too low, some are just right, etc.).
Sanguine Paladin could use some umpf. The cost reduction is the only thing there that really feels like a capstone ability. 20 extra hit points is the equivalent of the Toughness feat and immunity to death from massive damage is...meh. You need to make this more worth it.
Now, I hate to say this since you did put a lot of work into them, but I feel like the Bloodlines are superfluous. They feel tacked on to the concept of the class and from the cursory glances may just knock this class to being more powerful than it feels like it should be. I really liked the whole blood manipulation angle and vampire control and all that, but the megamaning that comes from the Bloodlines is kind of a turn off for me, especially since it makes this class feel like two viable class concepts mashed together.

[Milo v3]

That's it for the grammar portion for now. This is a big class with a lot of stuff and I don't want to try and tackle all of it at once. So the Bloodlines and other bits can wait till later.
Sounds more manageable.


First thing I'd like to know is, why a good deity? What limits this class from drawing power from neutral or evil deities? And even if they stick to the code, if the god is granting direct power, why not just rip the power from them as the deity should for a fallen disciple?
I like the idea that the gods allow it to do evil as they are defeating evil. The ends justify the means effectively.


Why is a front-line fighter saddled with a d6 hit dice?
Typo. Fixed it.


You need to be more specific with what a "Blood Mark" is. I can assume you mean that when something is cast or done for a creature with a Blood Mark for, that the ability is targeting them and not creatures of that type or something else.
It is like a list of creatures that you can effect with your powers. Using Blood Mark you can add creatures to this list.


Why does this class so heavily concentrate on Charisma? When I think of blood based classes, I think of Constitution being the focused score. I'd probably split between the two scores, with the physical end being Con based (like Blood points and such and the mystic end being Charisma.
I'll make the more physical effects Con based.


Two words: Feature Glut. Before even looking at Bloodlines, this class gets 24 separate class features. I would suggest taking all those class features that mimic spells and just combining them into one single class feature. Dead levels on a table is fine as long as they aren't actual dead levels.
I've merged Sanguine Trail & Bloody Spies and Noble Blood & Sanguine Proclamation.


The spell mimicking class features are kind of weird. You give them a much higher Caster level but then give them wildly fluctuating saves (some are too high, some are too low, some are just right, etc.).
Will fix. Also Saves are 10 + spell level + relavant ability modifier isn't it.


Sanguine Paladin could use some umpf. The cost reduction is the only thing there that really feels like a capstone ability. 20 extra hit points is the equivalent of the Toughness feat and immunity to death from massive damage is...meh. You need to make this more worth it.
I'm make it better.


Now, I hate to say this since you did put a lot of work into them, but I feel like the Bloodlines are superfluous. They feel tacked on to the concept of the class and from the cursory glances may just knock this class to being more powerful than it feels like it should be. I really liked the whole blood manipulation angle and vampire control and all that, but the megamaning that comes from the Bloodlines is kind of a turn off for me, especially since it makes this class feel like two viable class concepts mashed together.
Fine by me. It was going to be a huge amount of work.

[Golden Ladybug]

Well, as sorry as I am, I can't really fix this month's entry. I didn't connect with the theme, or really have much in the way of ideas. For the first contest, I knew exactly what I wanted the WEC to be, but this time around, I didn't have any inspiration for what to do.

So, yeah, that's that. I suppose Gothic Horror isn't the right theme for me.

There's always next month :smallsmile:

[TARDIS]

Sorry it took me a while - dealing with election coverage stuff et al.

Anyhow, my entry is up... the Grey Men, a CR 20 manipulative monstrosity from Shadow that is basically the Balor-equivalent for a 'type' of creature I'm working on called, well... horrors. They're basically the indigenous inhabitants of the Plane of Shadow before various other races started interfering with it/finding refuge there/etc. They're basically incarnations of phobias and dread that feed off the darker emotions of mortals, being themselves inhabitants of the darker mirror of the mortal plane.

It's been a pet-project of mine for the past two years, shaddup.

Anyhow, decided to deliver the big guy for this contest as the Grey Men appear more impressive than Scarecrows or the Things in the Wall or the Monsters under the Bed, and can be used as arc characters within a campaign rather than a single one-off encounter.

Primordial incarnation of dark conspiracies infecting the nations of men? I think that fits with the Gothic Horror theme, don't you?

Cheers!:smallbiggrin:

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, as sorry as I am, I can't really fix this month's entry. I didn't connect with the theme, or really have much in the way of ideas. For the first contest, I knew exactly what I wanted the WEC to be, but this time around, I didn't have any inspiration for what to do.

So, yeah, that's that. I suppose Gothic Horror isn't the right theme for me.

There's always next month :smallsmile:

Well, at least you tried your best and put in an entry hun. More than a lot of folks can say and you've made it so this contest isn't a bust.


Sorry it took me a while - dealing with election coverage stuff et al.

Anyhow, my entry is up... the Grey Men, a CR 20 manipulative monstrosity from Shadow that is basically the Balor-equivalent for a 'type' of creature I'm working on called, well... horrors. They're basically the indigenous inhabitants of the Plane of Shadow before various other races started interfering with it/finding refuge there/etc. They're basically incarnations of phobias and dread that feed off the darker emotions of mortals, being themselves inhabitants of the darker mirror of the mortal plane.

It's been a pet-project of mine for the past two years, shaddup.

Anyhow, decided to deliver the big guy for this contest as the Grey Men appear more impressive than Scarecrows or the Things in the Wall or the Monsters under the Bed, and can be used as arc characters within a campaign rather than a single one-off encounter.

Primordial incarnation of dark conspiracies infecting the nations of men? I think that fits with the Gothic Horror theme, don't you?

Cheers!:smallbiggrin:

It's cool, real world takes precedence.

I'll take a looksy and such when I'm more woke up and give you a run down as soon as I can (what with things going down to the wire).

[Tanuki Tales]

Will fix. Also Saves are 10 + spell level + relavant ability modifier isn't it.

Yes, but I noticed some of the DCs didn't match up with the spell's level. But I guess it depends which spell list you were grabbing it from.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, time for a run down on The Grey Men!

Auras
You mention an Unnatural Aura but there is no such ability.

Immunities
I think you meant "aging" and not "ageing".

Resistances
You forgot the comma inbetween 10 and sonic.

Spell-like Abilities
You forgot to italicize the 9th level spells.

Spells known
You forgot to bold the 0 and 1st level spells.

Alien Horror
I think you meant "writhing" not "writing".

Obscure Alignment
You forgot to italicize Undetectable Alignment.

Ecology
I feel like Grey Man should be a proper noun and thus capitalized.
Horrors also feels like it should be a proper noun.
"However, this a grey man is just as likely to serve as an ally for heroes as it is an enemy." That sentence doesn't really make sense to me.
I think you meant "threat" and not "treat".
I think you meant "may also be sought" and not "may also sought".


Alright, the grammar bits are all done.



Shouldn't Horror be a subtype for the Outsider main type? Horrors are creatures from the Plane of Shadow after all.
For the type description you really don't need those bits of rule text before each ability. Just listing the ability is enough.
Teleportation as a swift action is powerful, but interesting.
As I mentioned in the grammar, what is the Grey Man's Unnatural Aura?
Why immunity to aging effects? As far as I'm aware there are no actual aging effects in the game and I can't think of precedence for immunity to them other than the odd class feature.
It's SR is HD-3, why is that? SR is usually 11+HD and means these guys should have SR 39.
Why are they vulnerable to fire?
Overall, I very much like these guys. They really remind me of Paeliryon from 3rd editions and they were always a favorite of mine. I love powerful foes who can easily lend to Enemy Mine situations or Villain Civil Wars.

[Tanuki Tales]

And the curtain falls on another month's competition.

Voting thread is up and the new contest is posted folks! Good luck!

[Milo v3]

Ah the Avengers. Did you know that some of my favourite hero's were part of the Avengers at some stage.

I have a few ideas for this competition. One question first can it be any of the Avengers or just the main hero's like the ones in the movie?

With my knowledge on Marvel it should give me good amount of options if I wasn't restrained to the most well-known hero's.

[Tanuki Tales]

I have a few ideas for this competition. One question first can it be any of the Avengers or just the main hero's like the ones in the movie?

Sure, why not.

I originally just included Deadpool as an in-joke for us comic fans (since he always gets a variant cover for practically everything these days) but I don't see the harm.

Just keep in mind though that it may penalize you in the voting stage since people will be more familiar with the movie by the time the contest ends and that that may be their only knowledge on the theme the entries are based around.

[Milo v3]

So I probably shouldn't choose Agent Venom as the base for my class.

He isn't technically part of the Avengers, he is part of the Secret Avengers which is a small section of the Avengers.

There is an image of him on the cover of this issue of the Secret Avengers (He's the one in the front):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/SecretAvengers23cover.jpg

[Milo v3]

For some reason the forum wasn't detecting my previous post.

[Golden Ladybug]

Awesome, I love the Comic Books! I probably know more trivia about comics than I do about all the things school has endeavoured to teach me over the years.

Let me think of something cool, and I'll start work...well, probably on the weekend. I've got a lot of school stuff to do this week (which I should probably be doing now, but...I don't really want to :smallbiggrin:)

[Tanuki Tales]

Awesome, I love the Comic Books! I probably know more trivia about comics than I do about all the things school has endeavoured to teach me over the years.

Let me think of something cool, and I'll start work...well, probably on the weekend. I've got a lot of school stuff to do this week (which I should probably be doing now, but...I don't really want to :smallbiggrin:)

Love to see what you come up with. ^_^


So I probably shouldn't choose Agent Venom as the base for my class.

He isn't technically part of the Avengers, he is part of the Secret Avengers which is a small section of the Avengers.

There is an image of him on the cover of this issue of the Secret Avengers (He's the one in the front):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/SecretAvengers23cover.jpg

I think enough people know who Venom is that you should be fine. :smallwink:

And I thought he was part of the new Frightful Four. He's part of Secret Avengers too?

[Warpwolf16]

Oh! This is something I'll defiantly play up some obscure avenger goodness if possible! Though where does the line of Avenger draw the line? As in the original or its off shoots as well? Just curious because I saw this while reading old issues of west coast avengers :nale: Nostalgia burst!

Would Iron man inspired material be a good theme? Since it seems he is a founding member of the avengers and a major role in the up coming movie and I wouldnt mind creating a half construct race based off Stark. :belkar:

[Tanuki Tales]

Oh! This is something I'll defiantly play up some obscure avenger goodness if possible! Though where does the line of Avenger draw the line? As in the original or its off shoots as well? Just curious because I saw this while reading old issues of west coast avengers :nale: Nostalgia burst!

As I told Milo, go nuts if you want. But keep in mind that you may end up penalizing yourself in the voting stage when it turns out that the voters are only as aware of the Avengers as the Marvel movie line has portrayed them.

So as neat as a Triathlon or Moondragon based entry would be, no one would probably get how it ties into the theme.


Would Iron man inspired material be a good theme? Since it seems he is a founding member of the avengers and a major role in the up coming movie and I wouldnt mind creating a half construct race based off Stark. :belkar:

As the theme notes "that is themed around the titular Avengers".

[Milo v3]

I think enough people know who Venom is that you should be fine. :smallwink:

And I thought he was part of the new Frightful Four. He's part of Secret Avengers too?

Thanks good. I'll start it ASAP. Also I think Venom was only part of the Frightful Four in a What If? So I don't think it was canon that he was part of them.

[Warpwolf16]

Am I allowed to submit more then one thing?

[Milo v3]

Am I allowed to submit more then one thing?

Rule 5: Only one entry is allowed per participant.

[Warpwolf16]

Rule 5: Only one entry is allowed per participant.

Thanks Milo V3 I didn't notice that, now I need to decided race or class! :nale:

[Tanuki Tales]

For those of you who haven't voted yet, please don't forget to.


@Milo: A Dark counterpart to one of your previous entries? I approve. :smallbiggrin:

[Milo v3]

@Milo: A Dark counterpart to one of your previous entries? I approve. :smallbiggrin:

It was going to be Venom or Sandman. So I made your that either way it was going to be an enemy to the Spider Blood Assassin's.

[masterstalker2]

Milo, what is to prevent the Symbiote from taking over? Would the player need to make a Will save every night to prevent being taken over? He would eventually fail a Will save and start attacking his party. How about having the PC and Symbiote go through a ritual and/or have a deal where the symbiote is unable to completely take over the body of its host? The ritual would of course be done in the backstory to prevent wasting time in-game.

[Milo v3]

Milo, what is to prevent the Symbiote from taking over? Would the player need to make a Will save every night to prevent being taken over? He would eventually fail a Will save and start attacking his party. How about having the PC and Symbiote go through a ritual and/or have a deal where the symbiote is unable to completely take over the body of its host? The ritual would of course be done in the backstory to prevent wasting time in-game.

The Tainted Scion of Venom is already taken over, effectively. Symbiotes, as far as I'm aware don't exactly have minds when they have a host (other than Toxin who is unique). They instead "merge" minds with their host. If you enter this class then you will not only have the mind of your character, but also that of the Symbiote. These two creatures form a singular mind. This is why Venom says WE instead of I.

[Tanuki Tales]

The Tainted Scion of Venom is already taken over, effectively. Symbiotes, as far as I'm aware don't exactly have minds when they have a host (other than Toxin who is unique). They instead "merge" minds with their host. If you enter this class then you will not only have the mind of your character, but also that of the Symbiote. These two creatures form a singular mind. This is why Venom says WE instead of I.

Actually, the Symbiote pretty much retains a mind of its own and Toxin isn't that unique a case.

Eddie Brock and the Venom Symbiote and Cletus Kassidy and the Carnage symbiote were just of similar mindsets and goals to the point that they may have been a gestalt entity instead of two beings working in tandem.

But as we see in the cases of Patricia Roberts, Angelo Fortuna, Mac Gargan and Flash Thompson, the symbiote can be at cross purposes to it's host and will either try to completely dominate a suitable and weaker host (in the case of Roberts, Gargan and Thompson) or it will just play along and completely abandon a host when it gets bored (such as in the case of Fortuna).

The reason one can see Toxin as "unique" is because it is still in its infancy so doesn't fully understand how to work in almost perfect synchronization with a suitable host like it's sire and grand-sire do.

[masterstalker2]

Yeah, this would also mean that the Symbiote would have its own CHA, INT, and WIS scores. Also, Venom and Carnage say "WE" since their hosts are submissive. Toxin, however, doesn't say "WE" when referring to him and his host, since they, at first, don't get along all that well (they get along better after they make a deal, and even then, Toxin refers to himself as a separate being from his host). Also, I would like to point out that, at times, Venom and Brock will agree to help innocents, even if it means that they are working with Spider-Man to do it. Also, Brock and Venom only fully bonded when they teamed up with Spider-Man and Scarlet Spider to fight Carnage (who was stronger after consuming symbiotes), and they bonded so that they could make the necessary "scream" to defeat the symbiotes in the Planet of the Symbiotes storyline.

Also, for Toxin, its not completely that he is unable to dominate his host, its mostly that Patrick Mulligan is able to will it to not kill and battled the urges of violence from the Symbiote. Symbiotes can completely dominate weak individuals, but Patrick Mulligan is an example of someone who was able to prevent being dominated by his Symbiote.

[Milo v3]

Snip.
I never said they didn't dominate the host. Those with this class have embraced the symbiote and the two act as one mind, kind of....
The traits of both minds are in this gesalt mind, but the one with the most will power will be dominate and the mind will effectively be their mind with slight traits of the other.

[masterstalker2]

The Symbiote and the host have two separate minds, though the Symbiote can partially influence the actions of the host.

Well, you could say that it is a single mind inhabited by two entities.

Also, this could allow for a good two-person character, where two people have to cooperate, one as the Symbiote, one as the host. Though a person could just decide to be both, roleplaying as the separate entities.

I wonder if someone will make a class based off of Batman, Deadpool, or Wolverine.

[Tanuki Tales]

I never said they didn't dominate the host. Those with this class have embraced the symbiote and the two act as one mind, kind of....
The traits of both minds are in this gesalt mind, but the one with the most will power will be dominate and the mind will effectively be their mind with slight traits of the other.

I was just chiming in on the Symbiotes, not your class. I'm waiting till you have everything up before taking a look over it.

[Milo v3]

The Symbiote and the host have two separate minds, though the Symbiote can partially influence the actions of the host.

Well, you could say that it is a single mind inhabited by two entities.

Also, this could allow for a good two-person character, where two people have to cooperate, one as the Symbiote, one as the host. Though a person could just decide to be both, roleplaying as the separate entities.

I wonder if someone will make a class based off of Batman, Deadpool, or Wolverine.
This is actually what I meant. It has two minds but they are one mind. Its weird....

[masterstalker2]

Mindscrew? Also, you could put in the description that it is sort of like two entities inhabiting the same mind.

Also, shouldn't the Scion have the same skills as the Spider Blood Assassin, since they are Ex-Spider Blood Assassins?

Also, I have an idea for an Ex-Tainted Scion of Venom.
If you are separated from your Symbiote, whether willingly or unwillingly, you must retrieve or get a new Symbiote within 1d4 days or your levels in Tainted Scion of Venom will revert to levels in Spider Blood Assassin, and you cannot gain more levels in Tainted Scion of Venom unless a spell is used to reverse it, such as Atonement or Wish, or you retrieve your Symbiote.

Also, put into the class that you can only have levels in Spider Blood Assassin or Tainted Scion of Venom, but not both.

[Milo v3]

Mindscrew? Also, you could put in the description that it is sort of like two entities inhabiting the same mind.
Sure.


Also, shouldn't the Scion have the same skills as the Spider Blood Assassin, since they are Ex-Spider Blood Assassins?
This isn't a stealth class. And it isn't as much an Ex-Spider Blood Assassin as most symbiotes attach to people who aren't Spider Blood Assassins. Thus they aren't as skilled as the Spider Blood Assassins. I did base the list off a mix of barbarian and Spider Blood Assassin.


Also, I have an idea for an Ex-Tainted Scion of Venom.
If you are separated from your Symbiote, whether willingly or unwillingly, you must retrieve or get a new Symbiote within 1d4 days or your levels in Tainted Scion of Venom will revert to levels in Spider Blood Assassin, and you cannot gain more levels in Tainted Scion of Venom unless a spell is used to reverse it, such as Atonement or Wish, or you retrieve your Symbiote.

Also, put into the class that you can only have levels in Spider Blood Assassin or Tainted Scion of Venom, but not both.
That wouldn't exactly work as a Tainted Scion can come from a random commoner who touched the symbiote. Losing the Symbiote wont grant you the abilities that you wouldn't normally have.

On the other hand can I add the reverse of that to Spider Blood Assassin or would that break the rule of not discussing my entry in other threads?

[masterstalker2]

During the first years of the Spider Blood Assassin's, a young assassin known as Petros came into contact with an ooze from the Far-Realm. This ooze covered Petros forming a powerful armor, increasing his strength, speed, and agility. He brought this ooze, now known as a Symbiote, back to the Spider Blood Assassins and soon their were several assassin's with this ally. But their was a price, the Ooze feed off raw emotions and twisted their minds into a murderous rage so it could feed. Hating the idea of losing their free-will the remaining Spider Blood Assassin's rejected the symbiotes.


This is part of the description you have in the Scion class, meaning that it is technically Ex-Spider Blood Assassin, though they became the front-line fighters that they are because of the Symbiotes. That's what I think when I read the description, not that they were random people.

[Milo v3]

This is part of the description you have in the Scion class, meaning that it is technically Ex-Spider Blood Assassin, though they became the front-line fighters that they are because of the Symbiotes. That's what I think when I read the description, not that they were random people.

I suggest you read the next sentence...

[masterstalker2]

Ah, ok, also, what is lothed? Don't you mean loathed?

Also, about it violating the rules by it being discussed in other threads, from what I can tell, your allowed to as long as your not trying to get more attention for the entry along with more criticism.


6a. Entries submitted to this contest may not be posted in a separate thread or format until the contest has come to a close. Any entries that are discovered to have been posted elsewhere during the contest's duration (such as to garner further attention and critiques) will be automatically disqualified.

It's talking about posting the entire entry from what I can tell, though I can copy and paste my post about the Spider Blood Assassin having 1d4 days to get rid of the Symbiote here if you want me to.

Also, wouldn't that rule go for all classes, if they get a symbiote, they have 1d4 days to get rid of the symbiote before becoming a Tainted Scion? Or, other classes could have 1d3 or 1d2 since this is an unfamiliar enemy to them and they aren't the arch-nemesis to the Scion.

[Milo v3]

I meant loathed. I'll fix it.

And thanks for clarifying that rule.

[masterstalker2]

Also, for other classes, would they have 1d2 or 1d3 days to get rid of the symbiote or would the symbiote not care about the other classes since their qualm is with the Spider Blood Assassin?

Also, I think that a Tainted Scion of Venom gets to select one class, and that class is the class that their Scion levels are replaced with when he loses his symbiote.

Also, would the Scion gain the ability to use what I'm calling Tendril Swinging? It's the Web Slinging ability for the Spider Blood Assassin only using the tendrils that Venom uses, to do what is effectively Web Slinging like Venom does after he leaves Spider-Man.
Never mind, I see you have it, though it should be level 6, similar to the SBA's Technique.

Also, for the SBA getting a symbiote, as soon as he comes into contact with it and it takes shape, he becomes a Scion until he gets rid of the symbiote.

[Milo v3]

Also, for other classes, would they have 1d2 or 1d3 days to get rid of the symbiote or would the symbiote not care about the other classes since their qualm is with the Spider Blood Assassin?

Also, I think that a Tainted Scion of Venom gets to select one class, and that class is the class that their Scion levels are replaced with when he loses his symbiote.

Also, would the Scion gain the ability to use what I'm calling Tendril Swinging? It's the Web Slinging ability for the Spider Blood Assassin only using the tendrils that Venom uses, to do what is effectively Web Slinging like Venom does after he leaves Spider-Man.
Never mind, I see you have it, though it should be level 6, similar to the SBA's Technique.

I don't think that it should stop other classes. Flash for example would have fighter levels, when he takes a level in Tainted Scion I think he should still have his Fighter levels.

Also their is an issue with the select a class for if you lose the symbiote. Some players might exploit it severely allowing them to change into cleric or wizard instantly by losing the symbiote.

[masterstalker2]

And then they have to set up their character so that they are good at being both a Cleric and a Scion, which probably won't turn out well for them. Also, the class they choose for when they lose their symbiote would be their Scion level -X where X is the amount of levels they lose in that form.

For example (in this example, X = 3), if Peter Parker has 10 levels in Tainted Scion of Venom, if he loses his symbiote, he becomes a level 7 Spider Blood Assassin.

Also, I think Tendril Sling should be a level 6 ability, because a Spider Blood Assassin can get it well before level 11.

[Milo v3]

And then they have to set up their character so that they are good at being both a Cleric and a Scion, which probably won't turn out well for them. Also, the class they choose for when they lose their symbiote would be their Scion level -X where X is the amount of levels they lose in that form.

For example (in this example, X = 3), if Peter Parker has 10 levels in Tainted Scion of Venom, if he loses his symbiote, he becomes a level 7 Spider Blood Assassin.

Also, I think Tendril Sling should be a level 6 ability, because a Spider Blood Assassin can get it well before level 11.

So something similar to LA.

And I want a good spacing out of abilities which is why it is on level 11.

[masterstalker2]

First, yeah, it would be similar to LA (which I had to look up because I never played 3.5E).

And second, I can see what you mean about having it at level 11, though level 10 or 9 might be better.

[masterstalker2]

DR 5/Sonic or Fire, at level 5, that seems a bit overpowered. For starters, it should be DR 5/Sonic AND Fire, and it should be gained at level 10 if anything.
I say this is because the Prestige Class by Paizo (makers of Pathfinder), the Stalwart Defender, gets DR 5/- at level 10, and you need to have a BAB of +7 to just start taking the class, which is level 7 for Fighters. That means that they Stalwart Defender would have to be level 17 to get DR 5/-.

Also, I suggest adding to Step of the Web that, when the Scion does need to roll Climb, he is allowed to take ten, even if he is threatened.

[Milo v3]

DR 5/Sonic or Fire, at level 5, that seems a bit overpowered. For starters, it should be DR 5/Sonic AND Fire, and it should be gained at level 10 if anything.
I say this is because the Prestige Class by Paizo (makers of Pathfinder), the Stalwart Defender, gets DR 5/- at level 10, and you need to have a BAB of +7 to just start taking the class, which is level 7 for Fighters. That means that they Stalwart Defender would have to be level 17 to get DR 5/-.

Also, I suggest adding to Step of the Web that, when the Scion does need to roll Climb, he is allowed to take ten, even if he is threatened.

Actually it is meant to be Sonic or Fire. This means its Damage Reduction can be bypassed by Fire or Sonic Damage. Also when I reach the Damage Reduction section in the mechanics I planned to add this:
This Damage Reduction only applies while Embracing Carnage.

This means that it not only can be bypassed by one of the most common forms of damage, but also using that form of damage takes away its damage reduction, its weapons, and wall walking.

But I might move it back.

Also Step of the Web makes it so you don't need to make Climb checks. So that would be redundant.

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry, haven't read the vast majority yet and I apologize if I'm missing an exception to the rule here, but Damage Reduction doesn't apply to energy damage so DR/Sonic or Fire is the same thing as DR/-.

Edit: Also, don't overestimate the worth of Damage Reduction. A piddling DR 5/- is a joke in the long run and even DR 10-15 only partially helps against dedicated melee attacks.

[Milo v3]

Sorry, haven't read the vast majority yet and I apologize if I'm missing an exception to the rule here, but Damage Reduction doesn't apply to energy damage so DR/Sonic or Fire is the same thing as DR/-.
Never read that rule before. I've fixed the table to reflect this.


Also, don't overestimate the worth of Damage Reduction. A piddling DR 5/- is a joke in the long run and even DR 10-15 only partially helps against dedicated melee attacks.
Thats how I was thinking when I orginally made it DR 5 at level 5. IMO if you can't deal more than 5 damage at fifth level, thats kind of pathetic.

[Tanuki Tales]

Never read that rule before. I've fixed the table to reflect this.


A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities.

There ya go.

[masterstalker2]

Milo, I suggest adding to the Step of the Web ability that, when the Scion does need to make a climb check, he can reroll it if he fails and he can also take 10 on it.

[Milo v3]

Milo, I suggest adding to the Step of the Web ability that, when the Scion does need to make a climb check, he can reroll it if he fails and he can also take 10 on it.

When will it or Spider Blood Assassin need to make climb checks?

[masterstalker2]

Diagonal slopes (yes this is a joke), difficult terrain on walls or ceilings. Would you count climbing rope?

[Milo v3]

Diagonal slopes (yes this is a joke), difficult terrain on walls or ceilings. Would you count climbing rope?


it need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down) or slopes.

As for the rope. It would use your climbing speed.

[masterstalker2]

I think that having Embrace Carnage end when the Scion takes Sonic or Fire damage is a bit overkill, which can force the Scion to use a swift action every turn to use Embrace Carnage when fighting a creature that uses sonic or fire attacks.

I suggest changing it from Embrace Carnage being ended upon taking any fire or sonic damage at all to having Embrace Carnage ending upon taking 'X + Scion level' sonic or fire damage. It makes it a bit more balanced, because, from what you currently have for it, one creature that deals fire or sonic damage can just use one attack and then other nearby creatures can attack the Scion, who will no longer have his AC bonus or his DR X/-, and he will lose Step of the Web when hit, meaning that if he is on a wall or ceiling, he will fall and take damage.

[masterstalker2]

I suggest raising the amount of damage needed for Embrace Carnage to be ended, as a Scion fighting a regular encounter with an enemy that does fire or sonic damage, that enemy would easily be able to do more sonic/fire damage than the Scion's level, meaning that it isn't exactly useful to have that unless the Scion is going against a low-level, weak creature.

[Milo v3]

I suggest raising the amount of damage needed for Embrace Carnage to be ended, as a Scion fighting a regular encounter with an enemy that does fire or sonic damage, that enemy would easily be able to do more sonic/fire damage than the Scion's level, meaning that it isn't exactly useful to have that unless the Scion is going against a low-level, weak creature.

It is meant to be easily lost. Also class is based off three things - Venom, Alex Mercer, and The Darkness. With venom fire and vibration are his weakness and the darkness disappears when completely when it touches its weakness so that it doesn't die. The Symbiote would probably move off of its hosts skin and hide in his clothes or something when it is harmed by its weakness, thus turning off Embrace Carnage.

[masterstalker2]

I do suggest raising the amount of damage needed though, also, put in the description the different ways that the Scion can lose his Symbiote (like being reduced to negative their CON score, in which case their health is set to 0 and they lose the Symbiote, or if they receive X amount of fire or sonic damage, dying, in which case they lose the symbiote after X amount of rounds or minutes, and if the are revived after that time limit is met, than the symbiote isn't with them when revived and they must retrieve it). Maybe having a way for the symbiote to die, and also a way to decide it's ego score.

[Milo v3]

I do suggest raising the amount of damage needed though, also, put in the description the different ways that the Scion can lose his Symbiote (like being reduced to negative their CON score, in which case their health is set to 0 and they lose the Symbiote, or if they receive X amount of fire or sonic damage, dying, in which case they lose the symbiote after X amount of rounds or minutes, and if the are revived after that time limit is met, than the symbiote isn't with them when revived and they must retrieve it). Maybe having a way for the symbiote to die, and also a way to decide it's ego score.

Why though? It is meant to be deactivated when hit by its weakness...

Also I want to refrain from rules which cause the player to lose his symbiote as it will simpy annoy players.

And lastly I plan to put detail of the Symbiote itself at the end of my entry.

[masterstalker2]

It should be possible for the Scion to lose the Symbiote, but it must be very unlikely to happen, and even then the symbiote may come back to the host, or the host can retrieve it, or the host can find a new symbiote.

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, the voting for the Second competition is done and congratulations to those who entered and won (which was everyone since we only had 3 entries).

I'll have the trophies done and sent in the next two days and will jump on run downs after that.

I apologize for letting you and Master chatter on without keeping up with any of it really, but I just didn't want to interrupt you two bouncing ideas. :smallredface:

Speaking of, why don't you enter yourself Master?

[masterstalker2]

I don't really know how to make a homebrew class, I'm not that good at homebrew (or I don't think I am), I mostly see a class someone came up with, and say an idea I came up with and see if the person who made the class likes it and adds it (like with the Scion and Milo's Spider Blood Assassin Class). The only homebrew I've done so far is an Urgal race from Eragon for Pathfinder that I never posted but I have as a note, though I may try my hand at homebrewing a class.

Though, if I were to make an entry, then I'd have to decide on which hero to base the class on, I'm thinking Iron Man (though he might use a normal or a really advanced construct as armor), Deadpool, Batman, or the Flash as the inspiration. Though, to me it seems like Batman and Iron Man may be the easiest, with me being more genre-savvy on technology and gadgets when it comes to this stuff.

Also, I prefer to be called MS or Stalker rather than Masters, I'm just used to it at this point from using Masterstalker on so many things.

[masterstalker2]

And of course, my mind kicks into gear and starts thinking up how to make an Iron Man-based class.

The armor can be upgraded using different upgrades you gain at certain levels (like rage powers or Ninja Tricks) and the armor can be remade to use different materials.

Some examples of upgrades would be flight, air tank, built in weapons, armor is built into body (Bleeding Edge Iron Man armor), an AI, you get the point.

The user would, if attacked by electricity damage, roll a d20, 16-20, nothing happens except for normal damage, 6-15, receive extra damage and armor is deactivated for 1 round, 1-5, armor is overloaded, roll a d20 to see if the armor breaks down and must be repaired, or if you have to roll 1d4 to see how long it is deactivated.

My mind is always doing this stuff to me, I think that I might actually try to make my own class for this competition.

[Milo v3]

Hmm. So now two base classes in the running, both of which get their abilities from their suits, make weaponry from their suits, have additional forms of movement, and both of the suits are sentient to some extent...

Good luck. :smallbiggrin:

[Golden Ladybug]

Well, I'm just turning the Wasp into a monster that people can fight, so.... :smallamused:

Speaking of which, I will get onto that, I promise. Going back to school has me doing more STUFF then I used to be.

[Milo v3]

Well, I'm just turning the Wasp into a monster that people can fight, so.... :smallamused:

Speaking of which, I will get onto that, I promise. Going back to school has me doing more STUFF then I used to be.

School is also the reason mine is going so slowly. Looking at mine right now I'm only up to 5th level and I haven't even started writing out the details on the symbiote... :smallredface:

[masterstalker2]

I have come across a problem that repeats itself for me, "what should I name it?"

I have no friggin idea what I should name the Iron Man-based class I'm making. I always have a hard time with this, and I'm not sure about the names I came up with: Iron Knight, Golem Knight, Iron Warrior, Golem Warrior, Tech Warrior, Tech Knight. So I would like some help with coming up with the name for the class.

And for those people who read the 8-bit Theater comic, I refuse to name him Alloyed-Guy.

I saw The Avengers today, which might help me with some ideas for the abilities for the class, though I do have a tab opened up to the Iron Man page on the Avengers Wiki.

And yes, I am serious about the name thing, that is one of the main problems I'm having from starting up an entry for the contest.

[Milo v3]

I generally like the idea of using the Something Of Something Technique.

How about Titan of Steel?

[masterstalker2]

Titan of Steel does sound really good, though I'm not sure about it since I do want it to contain a bit of Iron Man's title, and Titan of Steel sounds like it's referring to Superman.

Also, an idea I came up with for my class are Upgrade Packs. You gain a pack every other level (like a Rage Power, or a Assassin Technique, Rogue Talent, or Ninja Trick) and each pack contains something different that can be used in your suit, though I would have to find a way to limit it, like having a limit on the number of items that can be installed at one time (you would be able to mix packs that you have) and the amount would increase as you level up.

I was also thinking that, every few levels, you learn how to create a new, more powerful suit that can contain more items from a pack and gives a higher bonus to AC.

You know, this is what I get for having spare time in school and at home.

If no one can think of a name other than Titan of Steel, I will have to go with it.

[masterstalker2]

I have the Titan of Steel entry started, and I've already decided that, at level 20, the ToS will be able to make a Bleeding Edge suit, which I'll post an image of later with most of its weapons activated.

I have a few skills already planned, including one called Override, which allows for a few stronger things, like picking up a 16,000 ton nuclear reactor


Override: When required, armor systems including strength amplification, durability amplification, and repulsor intensity can be greatly increased, by bypassing safety circuits and limiters. However, there is a chance that this can result in a complete system failure of the armor. An example of this mode is when Iron Man easily lifted a 16,000 ton Nuclear Reactor, and flew into the sky and threw it into the sea. It seems that he utilized this resource on the Hulk once, as the armor ends up completely inert. The range of the Override can be controlled as only reaching his very limit and staying at it for a long time will cause a system failure. This range goes from a safe 800% to 3200%, up to a very dangerous 5000%.
-From the Iron Man page on the Avengers Wiki.

A lot of things that Iron Man has will have to be toned down, like his shields being able to withstand a nuclear blast while at 2%.

[masterstalker2]

I would like some ideas for what to put into the various Upgrade Packs. The UPs will have tiers that can be unlocked at higher levels, which will include upgrades for the previous tier along with new items that can be installed into the armor. I've already set up a column on the table for the max amount of items from the Upgrade Packs that can be installed in the armor at once (though I might set it so that some things will take up more upgrade points than weaker items).

[Tanuki Tales]

Yesterday got absorbed mostly by chores and then shopping, among other things, so unfortunately the trophies for the last competition are being pushed back. I'll get on them as soon as I get a chance.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, all the trophies are complete and sent!

[masterstalker2]

I would like some suggestions for the Upgrade Packs, stats for the Pulse Blade (will at least do electric damage), the Unibeam, Repulsors, Repulsor Cannon, etc.

[Tanuki Tales]

I would like some suggestions for the Upgrade Packs, stats for the Pulse Blade (will at least do electric damage), the Unibeam, Repulsors, Repulsor Cannon, etc.

Without having a chance to look at any of the entries yet (been working on my game system and hoping for it grab some attention), I would suggest looking at the Warlock for inspiration.

[masterstalker2]

I took a look at the Warlock 3rd party class, and it didn't look like it would help me with the ToS.

I also need ideas for the Titan Armors, not only the first Titan Armor but the various Titan Armors that the ToS will get.

[Milo v3]

I took a look at the Warlock 3rd party class, and it didn't look like it would help me with the ToS.

I also need ideas for the Titan Armors, not only the first Titan Armor but the various Titan Armors that the ToS will get.

Troll Bräu was talking about the 3.5e Warlock, but I doubt you have access to it since as far as I'm aware you only play PF.

As for the Armors, look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man's_armor).

If you don't want to search through the whole thing here is a small list of armors you should have a look at:
1. Hydro Armor (In addition to the armor itself, it mentions various weapons)
2. Low Observable Armor
3. War Machine Armor
4. Artic Armor
5. S.K.I.N. Armor

[masterstalker2]

I did look at 3.5 Warlock after looking at the PF one, didn't appeal to me.

Also, I went through a bunch of the armors when I had a chance before, I had meant more along the lines of stats. I was thinking that War Machine Armor (War Titan Armor) would count weapons and armor upgrades as using only 75% of the upgrade points they normally used for the weapons/armor upgrades.

Also, the Bleeding Edge Armor, I really liked that and I have it planned to be used at level 20.

Actually, now that I think about it, should the ToS get the Bleeding Edge armor at level 20, or should he get the Destroyer Armor at level 20 with the Bleeding Edge Armor at level 18 or 19?

[masterstalker2]

Milo, Troll, what do you think of having different Titan Armor suits unlocked by different packs? For example, ranged weapons would unlock War Machine.

[Milo v3]

Milo, Troll, what do you think of having different Titan Armor suits unlocked by different packs? For example, ranged weapons would unlock War Machine.

Sounds interesting. Also I'm finally adding in stats for Symbiote.

[masterstalker2]

I've started on the list that the ToS will be able to choose from for their starting upgrades, it will be limited and the items won't be all that effective since the items are for a 1st level ToS. Give me suggestions on items to be added to the list and I'll consider them.

[masterstalker2]

I have started on stats for the armors, I only have part of the Titan Armor MK I done. I'm not sure about having the Arcane Failure as Iron Man's armor is usually flexible and the spellcaster would be sending out spells through the repulsors on the gauntlets.

[masterstalker2]

I've expanded the list of Titan Armors, mostly to show examples of what I will be adding, including the Scionbuster Titan Armor, which would be Hulkbuster, but there isn't a Hulk class, so I had to go with Tainted Scion of Venom for this suit.

Actually, should I call it Scionbuster, or change it to Tarrasquebuster or Dragonbuster, or something like that?

[Tanuki Tales]

Just let me know when you guys feel your entries are "complete". Between irl stuff, other online things and working on FableHeart, I really only have time to do run downs sparingly (i.e. as revisionary aides and inquiries on "completed" works).

Felt I had to say this so no one thinks I just up and abandoned the contest or anything. ^^;

[masterstalker2]

I mostly need suggestions for what items to add to the packs, what armors to add, and what the stats I will give to the armor and weapons (the Destroyer Armor will use two Tier 3 packs, and is based off of the Iron Destroyer Armor, and the Bleeding Edge Armor is just awesome, so those two will have high stats).

[Tanuki Tales]

I mostly need suggestions for what items to add to the packs, what armors to add, and what the stats I will give to the armor and weapons (the Destroyer Armor will use two Tier 3 packs, and is based off of the Iron Destroyer Armor, and the Bleeding Edge Armor is just awesome, so those two will have high stats).

Do you mean the Thor-Buster Armor or that armor he got during Fear Itself?

[masterstalker2]

I mean the one from Fear Itself, it's called the Iron Destroyer since it looks like the Destroyer, the Asgardian weapon (the drone that attacked Thor in the movie Thor).

For the Hulk-Buster, I have the Scion-Buster, through I'm thinking about renaming it Venom-Buster, Tarrasque-Buster, Dragon-Buster, or something similar.

[Tanuki Tales]

Hey all, been sick as a dog last few days.

I'll be doing run downs tomorrow. @.@

Edit:

@Master: I know what the Destroyer is. :smalltongue:

Tony Stark has just had two armors that looked like the Asgardian Destroyer; his Thor-buster armor and his Fear Itself armor.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, here's the first rundown and we're kicking it off with the Tainted Scion of Venom!


Quote
Is that pulled directly from a Venom quote? Because there shouldn't be an apostrophe s after Assassin.

Fluff
Should just be an s after Assassin, not apostrophe s.
You want "there" not "their".
Should just be an s after Assassin, not apostrophe s.
You either want "there", signifying that a price existed or you want "theirs was a high price" signifying that the ooze had a price and then quantifying the gravity of it.
You either want "fed", since the sentence structure isn't talking about an individual ooze, but them as a whole or you want to pluralize ooze.
Ooze isn't a proper noun, so it should be capitalized.
Your use of their in "their minds" doesn't specify if it means the Symbiotes, the Spider-Blood Assassins or both.
You might to reword this sentence to be something more like "twisted their host's minds, plummeting them into a state of murderous rage in order to sup a more nourishing meal."
There should be a comma after free will.
Should just be an s after Assassin, not apostrophe s.
I think "They became the Tainted Scions of Venom" may be a sentence fragment and if it isn't, something like "The who embraced the Symbiotes were changed, becoming known as "The Tainted Scions of Venom"."
I think a semicolon would be more appropriate after "Symbiotes" than a comma.
I would reword the sentence to be more something more like, "The Tainted Scion are completely new beings, gestalts of the person they once were and the Symbiote attached to them."
And isn't necessary before amalgam.
It should be "host's" not "hosts".
Symbiote should be capitalized since it's a proper noun.


Role
It should be "strikes" not "strike".


Alignment
Symbiote should be capitalized since it's a proper noun.
A semicolon would be more proper than a comma after "others".
I'd reword it to say "can hold back these urges".




Allied Memory
It should be "Carnage, a Tainted Scion of Venom" not " Carnage Tainted Scion of Venom".

Embracing Carnage
Symbiote should be capitalized since it's a proper noun.
There should be a comma after "Swift action".
It should be "willingly ending it" not "willing end it".


Weapon of Agony
It should be "Carnage, a Tainted Scion of Venom" not " Carnage Tainted Scion of Venom".


Phage
It should be "and" not "an".


Web of Blood
It's "vertical" not "verticle".


Ok, that's all the grammar stuff for now.



There are some things I want to talk about with this class, but I need to wait for it to be complete before I can really jump into it.

[Tanuki Tales]

Next up is the rundown for the Wasplings!


I don't see any grammatical errors, so moving on.




Technically Psionics Unleashed is a Third Party publication and Paizo's staff have come out and said that's not their plan for how they'd make psionics (if they plan to make psionics at all), but I'll let it fly since it's on the SRD. But shouldn't Wasplings have the Psionic subtype?
Isn't Small too big? I mean, wouldn't these Fey serve better as really small things that can grow big or normal sized things that could shrink small instead of a kind of small thing that can go both ways?
Holy crap that's a High Charisma score. Reasoning behind this?

I'll probably have more to say when this entry is more complete.

[Tanuki Tales]

Finally, rundown for the Titan of Steel


I'm going to forgo a grammar look over because I think a mechanics overview is more important right now.



Really minor nitpick, but I think it's kind of gauche to actually use an existing character as a member of your homebrew class. It's a personal taste thing for me and while I have nothing against attaching quotes from existing fictional characters for homebrew, it just feels like making a Drow TWF Ranger name Rizzt Rourderan to me. But as I said, really minor thing, feel free to ignore it.

You're missing most of your class features and I find your split HD a very awkward thing. Why not just have a flat HD and then have a boost to survivability while wearing your armor?

Flight of any kind at level 1 is a big, big no no. Especially with any kind of ranged attack. Next to absolutely nothing will be a threat to someone who can just sit safely out of range and pelt everything to death and you trivalize a lot of things.

I would highly suggest you make this into a Crafting based class and look at varying 3rd party and 3.X classes (like the Artificer) for ideas.


I'll have more to say when this class is more complete.

[Tanuki Tales]

That's it for the rundowns.

There's 8 days left in the competition, so you guys may need to kick it into overdrive to have your stuff done and ready by the end.

I know that it's my fault for being mostly AWOL for this competition and I'm really sorry for that. I feel absolutely terrible for all the things that have happened and come up and I'll try my best to have a larger presence for the rest of this competition and for next month's. :smallfrown:

[masterstalker2]

Thank you for the suggestions, and the thing about flight at level one, it's suppose to be more like a boosted jump, like you see near the beginning of the first Iron Man movie, I'm going to give it a lot of limits though, probably with a chance to malfunction, including having the armor break and the ToS having to repair it and/or taking up a decent amount of Armor Power. Also, they will not be able to use their ranged weapon while using the level one flight jump, because, if I were to allow it, they would only hit if they scored a natural 20 since it would be near impossible to aim like that. The jump will also have a limit on how many times it can be used per day, mostly limited by the Armor Power score.

Also, about the mechanics and class features, I'm still coming up with things, but I would like suggestions for it to prevent it from being overpowered. Though, I'm planning on having the ToS focus on the Upgrade Packs and the Armors that come with it as the main ability, similar to how a Rogue has Rogue Talents and a Ninja has Ninja Tricks.

The Upgrade Packs are sets of items that the ToS can choose items from to install into his armor, but can be taken out and replaced, though not quickly.

About the separate hit dice, I put it in because, to me, it makes sense that someone wearing magic-powered (or psionic-powered, or alchemy-powered) armor is going to be able to take more hits than someone standing around with no armor. I'm thinking about having it so that, when wearing the armor, the ToS takes the normal damage to his Armored health, while his Unarmored health takes 1/4, or maybe 1/2, of the damage his Armored Health takes.

Thank you Troll Bräu for taking a look at it, I'm hoping to have it complete, but suggestions are needed and are welcomed by me.

[Tanuki Tales]

Thank you for the suggestions, and the thing about flight at level one, it's suppose to be more like a boosted jump, like you see near the beginning of the first Iron Man movie, I'm going to give it a lot of limits though, probably with a chance to malfunction, including having the armor break and the ToS having to repair it and/or taking up a decent amount of Armor Power.

Then make it a jump instead of flight?


Also, about the mechanics and class features, I'm still coming up with things, but I would like suggestions for it to prevent it from being overpowered. Though, I'm planning on having the ToS focus on the Upgrade Packs and the Armors that come with it as the main ability, similar to how a Rogue has Rogue Talents and a Ninja has Ninja Tricks.

The Upgrade Packs are sets of items that the ToS can choose items from to install into his armor, but can be taken out and replaced, though not quickly.

As contest host and final judge, I can't really suggest past what you could look at to guide and inspire you. I can review what you've already done, point out flaws I see and make suggestions for changes and additions, but I can only do this after the fact. I can't help you build your initial entry, sorry. :smallfrown:


About the separate hit dice, I put it in because, to me, it makes sense that someone wearing magic-powered (or psionic-powered, or alchemy-powered) armor is going to be able to take more hits than someone standing around with no armor. I'm thinking about having it so that, when wearing the armor, the ToS takes the normal damage to his Armored health, while his Unarmored health takes 1/4, or maybe 1/2, of the damage his Armored Health takes.

While do-able, you should make it a straight class ability that modifies off a flat base hit dice. Otherwise it gets confusing fast.


Thank you Troll Bräu for taking a look at it, I'm hoping to have it complete, but suggestions are needed and are welcomed by me.

You're welcome. Pity we don't have some impartial observers to help in that regard.

[Midwoka]

I'm not really impartial, since I'm working on an entry myself...


But I would definitely remove the Titan of Steel's two different Hit Dice. Even if you have an effect that pretty much works that way in the end, it's still off-putting to see it in the "Hit Dice" section. What I would do is just give the HD for the character when he's out of the armor (probably d6, maybe d8), but give the armor an ability where it has its own hitpoints that are used first, like temporary hitpoints -- I'd give it a flat 2 or 3 hitpoints each level, with a bonus from your Intelligence like Constitution does for normal characters. That way, a Titan of Steel is frail as a Wizard when they're out-of-costume, but tough as a Barbarian once they suit up (as long as they're decently smart). =)

[masterstalker2]

Thanks for the idea Midwoka, much better than what I had been going to do (1d10 with a -2 each level when out of armor), I'll put that in the armor section soon.

[Tanuki Tales]

*whistles while waiting on Ladybug and Milo to respond to their rundowns*

In other news, hitting serious ennui with my work on FableHeart. I'm really beginning to see the character options as I've made them thus far as being really boring and not fun to play. *sigh*

Which I guess is to expected when I'm modelling them off of Pathfinder class features but am trying to blend in White Wolf.

[Milo v3]

*whistles while waiting on Ladybug and Milo to respond to their rundowns*


Sorry about not replying....

But either way, I think I've fixed all the grammer problems you've stated and now I'm trying to get it finished as fast as possible, so you can say what you want about the mechanics.

[Milo v3]

Troll Bräu can you give my class a rundown on the mechanics. I've finally finished the Tainted Scion of Venom, the Weapons of Agony, the Symbiote, the New Weapon Traits, the Tainted Spawn Template.

That was a long entry.

[Golden Ladybug]

Bah, I need more hours in every day to get around to all the things. And also, to probably play less PbP games...

Anyway, that is a very good point, they should have the [Psionic] Subtype.

I think Small sized is the right balance at this point; The Wasp is usually portrayed as being able to stand on someone's shoulder, and she's (well, he, at the moment...why do they keep killing Janet in all the continuities? Why!) only really goes microscopic occasionally. Small is also the same size as most of the Sprites, who are really the iconic "fairy" type Fey. I don't imagine Pixies as being any bigger than the head of a human, and they can fit into Small without issue.

Finally, it allows for a nice balance point for their Compression/Expansions. While Wasplings won't ever be able to dwarf buildings, they can get big enough to tower over most normal player characters at Large, while still being able to get down Diminutive.

And the high Charisma score is just part of being Fey. Out of all the "Pretty Much Nothing" that has been given about D&D/Pathfinder Fey, most of what I've seen has been ways of using their Charisma in different ways. Charming the Arrow, Beauty's Bounty and most of the Fey templates (Unseelie, Half-Fey, Feytouched) all give bonuses or ways of using your charisma for more and more things. If you think 28 is too high, I can lower it, but as Fey go, I think it comes with the territory.

[Milo v3]

I think Small sized is the right balance at this point; The Wasp is usually portrayed as being able to stand on someone's shoulder, and she's (well, he, at the moment...why do they keep killing Janet in all the continuities? Why!) only really goes microscopic occasionally. Small is also the same size as most of the Sprites, who are really the iconic "fairy" type Fey. I don't imagine Pixies as being any bigger than the head of a human, and they can fit into Small without issue.


A small-sized person wouldn't be able to stand on your shoulder, small size is the size of a 6 year old human. Tiny size would make much more sense. Also Human heads are about the size of cats, cats are tiny size. If heads were small sized then we would be bobbleheads.

[Tanuki Tales]

Snip

Milo pointed out the size thing, so let me comment on Charisma.

My point is that powerful non-unique Outsiders don't even have Charisma that high.

[Tanuki Tales]

And here's a mechanics rundown on the Tainted Scion of Venom!


Damage Reduction
What I would suggest is to do like the one Barbarian Archetype (I think it's Invulnerable Rager) does and give Damage Reduction equal to half their character's levels in the class. That way it scales with their play and becomes something they can look forward to every 2 levels. Keep it as a flat 5 when it's introduced but scale from there so you can still hit 15.


Phage
Most people would find issue that this isn't limited by the HD of the creature devoured, but I don't really mind. My real problem with it is the wonky limit on it. Why did you make it "level+Fortitude Bonus" and not "level+Constitution bonus"?


Corpse Visage
So it can use this to take the form of anything it's used Phage on before, with no limit?


Camouflage
Why is this limited to Urban environments?


Focused Strike
Not anything wrong with this mechanically, I just think the name is wonky for what it's supposed to be describing.


Gifts of Flesh
Full stop here. This ability is potentially abusable and broken, especially when you open it up to lesser known Pathfinder material or backwards compatibility. I would heavily suggest that, if you keep it, you make an explicit list of what it can grant and then make a footnote that other selections are allowed with DM approval.

Also, did Venom ever do something like this?


Venomous Flesh
Nothing wrong mechanically, just curious where Venom ties into this.


Skilled Camouflage
If it's actually casting a spell, this should be an Supernatural ability, not an Extraordinary.


Vile Legion
I feel this ability should have a listed range, even a ridiculously long one. Unless this can function cross-planar.

Bloodspikes
They mention themselves as shields but never explain how or what armor bonus they give.


Tainted Spawn template
As Polymorph is a little much. Why not as Alter Self?
Odd ability modifiers are kind of weird and not usually used. Why this choice?

[Tanuki Tales]

Oh and before I forget to completely (like I did last month :smallsigh:), here is your sneak peak at next month's contest's theme!




A Homebrew by any other Name...

[Milo v3]

And here's a mechanics rundown on the Tainted Scion of Venom!


[QUOTE]Damage Reduction
What I would suggest is to do like the one Barbarian Archetype (I think it's Invulnerable Rager) does and give Damage Reduction equal to half their character's levels in the class. That way it scales with their play and becomes something they can look forward to every 2 levels. Keep it as a flat 5 when it's introduced but scale from there so you can still hit 15.
I would prefer Damage Reduction didn't scale that fast as this class has many features which are much more powerful are I don't to make taking dips in this class to powerful. Also if weakens the effect over all. 5 + (15/2) = 12.5. That is unless it put it at 2nd level and I think Damage Reduction at 2nd level is overpowered.


Phage
Most people would find issue that this isn't limited by the HD of the creature devoured, but I don't really mind. My real problem with it is the wonky limit on it. Why did you make it "level+Fortitude Bonus" and not "level+Constitution bonus"?
Fixed.


Corpse Visage
So it can use this to take the form of anything it's used Phage on before, with no limit?
It still has the limits of Alter Self.


Camouflage
Why is this limited to Urban environments?
Camouflage is generally limited to an environment, I've taken that out though.


Focused Strike
Not anything wrong with this mechanically, I just think the name is wonky for what it's supposed to be describing.
Couldn't


Gifts of Flesh
Full stop here. This ability is potentially abusable and broken, especially when you open it up to lesser known Pathfinder material or backwards compatibility. I would heavily suggest that, if you keep it, you make an explicit list of what it can grant and then make a footnote that other selections are allowed with DM approval.

Also, did Venom ever do something like this?
Its how Venom creates web, by assimilating the genetics of other creatures to his host. I'll add in restrictions.


Venomous Flesh
Nothing wrong mechanically, just curious where Venom ties into this.

Wikipedia's page on Symbiotes:

The abiliy to produce toxins and venoms, such as in the toxin full bite Venom delivered to Sandman


Skilled Camouflage
If it's actually casting a spell, this should be an Supernatural ability, not an Extraordinary.
Fixed.


Vile Legion
I feel this ability should have a listed range, even a ridiculously long one. Unless this can function cross-planar.
Added in distance of 10 feet for effect and 40 feet for hivemind style control.


Bloodspikes
They mention themselves as shields but never explain how or what armor bonus they give.
Read the trait they have, Shield State.


Tainted Spawn template
As Polymorph is a little much. Why not as Alter Self?
Odd ability modifiers are kind of weird and not usually used. Why this choice?
Fixed.

[Tanuki Tales]

[QUOTE=Troll Brau;13302141]I would prefer Damage Reduction didn't scale that fast as this class has many features which are much more powerful are I don't to make taking dips in this class to powerful. Also if weakens the effect over all. 5 + (15/2) = 12.5. That is unless it put it at 2nd level and I think Damage Reduction at 2nd level is overpowered.

That's exactly when the Invulnerable Rager gets it's DR too. xD



It still has the limits of Alter Self.

I meant the selection of identities you can assume. They never fade away from the Symbiote's memory?



Couldn't

Huh?



Its how Venom creates web, by assimilating the genetics of other creatures to his host. I'll add in restrictions.

If you mean the organic webbing, it didn't add or take anything, it just mimicked the webbing that Peter artificially made after reading his thoughts.




Wikipedia's page on Symbiotes:

Ah. One of those powers a character showed once in a story that didn't matter in the long scheme of things. Comic books, what can ya do? :smallwink:




Added in distance of 10 feet for effect and 40 feet for hivemind style control.

Sounds kind of short ranged for a capstone then.



Read the trait they have, Shield State.

But what does that mean? I chucked it into the Pathfinder SRD and got no hits.

[Milo v3]

That's exactly when the Invulnerable Rager gets it's DR too. xD
Really.


I meant the selection of identities you can assume. They never fade away from the Symbiote's memory?
I'll put in a duration thingy.


Huh?
Sorry about that. I was making that post at the same time as making a Bard fix... What I meant to say was that I couldn't think of a better name at the time and then it kind of stuck in my mind, stopping me from thinking up new names.


If you mean the organic webbing, it didn't add or take anything, it just mimicked the webbing that Peter artificially made after reading his thoughts.
Symbiotes use the genetic abilities of previous host and give them to their current ones to enhance them, which is why Venom can create organic webbing. This is based on that idea. Symbiote uses the genetic traits of the target, adds them onto its host.


Ah. One of those powers a character showed once in a story that didn't matter in the long scheme of things. Comic books, what can ya do? :smallwink:
Its like Superman's Anti Evil Ray.


Sounds kind of short ranged for a capstone then.
I've increased the radii.


But what does that mean? I chucked it into the Pathfinder SRD and got no hits.
Scroll down to the bottom of my entry their is a list of new Weapon Traits.

[Tanuki Tales]

Really.

Yup. It gets DR starting at level 2 equal to half it's total Barbarian levels. Sure, it caps at 10 instead of 15, but I was just pointing out that there's precedence to tweak with.



Sorry about that. I was making that post at the same time as making a Bard fix... What I meant to say was that I couldn't think of a better name at the time and then it kind of stuck in my mind, stopping me from thinking up new names.

It's fine. I'd suggest a name but I'm struggling to wake up right now.



Symbiotes use the genetic abilities of previous host and give them to their current ones to enhance them, which is why Venom can create organic webbing. This is based on that idea. Symbiote uses the genetic traits of the target, adds them onto its host.

Was this a retcon? Because during Secret Wars Spider-man erroneously goes to a device he thought was the same as the one Julia Carpenter used to get her new suit. The device releases Venom and latches onto Peter, using his wishes for a similar suit to craft itself as such. And it also picked up on Peter's subconscious feelings of inadequacy after Reed had to cannibalize both his web shooters, thus making its own body mimic organic webbing.

The ability is fine with limitations, I'm just trying to pin down where in the lore it's sprung from.



Its like Superman's Anti Evil Ray.

Yup. xD



Scroll down to the bottom of my entry their is a list of new Weapon Traits.

Ah, that explains it.

[Milo v3]

Yup. It gets DR starting at level 2 equal to half it's total Barbarian levels. Sure, it caps at 10 instead of 15, but I was just pointing out that there's precedence to tweak with.
Wont that make it at least slightly overpowered in addition to their already powerful abilities



Was this a retcon?
Yep, genetic traits or something is how it works with the movies. I think. I haven't actually watch spiderman 3 because of friends telling about how its bad.

[Tanuki Tales]

Wont that make it at least slightly overpowered in addition to their already powerful abilities

Not really. You already have them getting DR 15/-, I was just suggesting spreading the rate out.




Yep, genetic traits or something is how it works with the movies. I think. I haven't actually watch spiderman 3 because of friends telling about how its bad.

Well, that Peter also had organic webbing. :smallwink:

But that makes sense.

[masterstalker2]

Great, I'm doing this with a bit of homework, and now I have to do it now, right after my birthday. I have to do most of my entry last minute, this will be fun, if you go by the Dwarf Fortress definition of it (google "Dwarf Fortress fun" to get to the wiki page for Losing). Wish me luck, I hope I can do it.

[masterstalker2]

Also, about Venom in the movies, I think it works like in the comics (or how I think it works in the comics), where he takes the abilities of his original host (Spider-Man), and gives them to his new host. I'm guessing that Venom somewhat bonded with the webslingers also so he can use Tendril Swing.

[Tanuki Tales]

Also, about Venom in the movies, I think it works like in the comics (or how I think it works in the comics), where he takes the abilities of his original host (Spider-Man), and gives them to his new host. I'm guessing that Venom somewhat bonded with the webslingers also so he can use Tendril Swing.

It's more that copying Peter's powerset was always in the Symbiote's natural range of ability and it just uses the same template to screw with him.

[masterstalker2]

It saddens me, but I probably won't be able to finish the ToS before the end of the contest.

I wasn't able to get much done because of school and my birthday yesterday and my mom's birthday today.

It also doesn't help that I entered the contest a bit late.

It also doesn't help that I couldn't think of things and that I stayed up late playing Dwarf Fortress recently.

I'll probably make the ToS a separate forum thread when the contest is done so I can finish it.

Also, from what I can tell, the next contest is Pokemon, and I'll probably enter that, though I may be doing a Summer Camp program throughout the week over the summer.

[Tanuki Tales]

It saddens me, but I probably won't be able to finish the ToS before the end of the contest.

I wasn't able to get much done because of school and my birthday yesterday and my mom's birthday today.

It also doesn't help that I entered the contest a bit late.

It also doesn't help that I couldn't think of things and that I stayed up late playing Dwarf Fortress recently.

I'll probably make the ToS a separate forum thread when the contest is done so I can finish it.

Also, from what I can tell, the next contest is Pokemon, and I'll probably enter that, though I may be doing a Summer Camp program throughout the week over the summer.

Don't worry about it.

Unless Golden finishes hers last minute, Milo wins by default since he'd have the only complete entry.

Though I wonder if I should have the contest just end with no winner when there are less than 3 entries.

Thoughts?

[Milo v3]

If I win by default, could you determine whether or not it is at Pathfinder quality. If it is then I could still count as winning. If not then I don't get counted as winning.

EDIT: Also for my guesses on the next competition I think it will either be about plants or mimicry.

[Midwoka]

I'm finishing up an entry =)

I need to get it posted on the 31st and not before the 31st, right?

[masterstalker2]

Milo, A Homebrew by any other name, similar to the Team Rocket intro when they appear in Pokemon, though I can be wrong, but then the ideas I've started coming up with for a trainer/breeder class would be wasted.

[Milo v3]

Milo, A Homebrew by any other name, similar to the Team Rocket intro when they appear in Pokemon, though I can be wrong, but then the ideas I've started coming up with for a trainer/breeder class would be wasted.

From memory Jessie says "A rose by any other name is just as sweet." which is a refrence to Romeo and Juilet. Which is why I think it will either be about plants (The rose) or my mimicing (thus being something but having sweetness of the rose).

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm finishing up an entry =)

I need to get it posted on the 31st and not before the 31st, right?

As long as it's posted before 12 am EST, April 1st.

[Milo v3]

As long as it's posted before 12 am EST, April 1st.

I hope you mean June.

[Golden Ladybug]

No default wins for you, Milo :smallamused:

It wasn't smoothly done or consistently updated, but I've managed to get my entry completed.

[Milo v3]

No default wins for you, Milo :smallamused:

It wasn't smoothly done or consistently updated, but I've managed to get my entry completed.

Troll Bräu didn't say no to my idea yet so it has been yet to see if I win or not. And anyway if there are two finished entries then it should be out of those two, rather than no winner.

If there is no winner, I have no idea what to write in my extended signature.

[Midwoka]

I was fussing over getting the table right, and I didn't even notice that I screwed up some brackets and blew up all the class features >_<

But now it's all edited back in, so everything should be good. And I got the picture in, so I think my entry's aaaall ready. =)

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright, I'll be nice this one time since it brings us up to the minimum three entries, but Midwoka, you posted your entry half an hour after the deadline.

I'll have the voting thread and new thread up in a few minutes, let me just wake up here.

[Tanuki Tales]

Both threads are up.