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Maquise
2012-03-01, 12:15 AM
I'm having issues coming up with ways characters could deal with Good outsiders. I mean deal with as in binding/allying with, not combating.

My main problem is one I have difficulty explaining, but I will try. When an evil mortal deals with an evil outsider, their goals are usually not 100% in alignment. Even if they are, the fiend will still try to mess with the mortal just because it's Evil. But if a good mortal wants to ask a Good outsider to do something for a Good cause, I cannot figure out why the Good outsider would require anything upfront. Afterwords maybe, but to me it seems like Good outsiders would want to do Good deeds gratis.

Tulya
2012-03-01, 12:44 AM
It is traditional in mythology and fantasy for great beings of Goodness to require that a supplicant prove their worthiness through sacrifice or completion of some task. In the process, they often further their own just cause.

From a purely pragmatic perspective, this is ensuring that limited resources are parlayed into a greater benefit for Good. A philanthropist who makes charitable contributions primarily through matching donations is no less a philanthropist than one who makes their donations unconditionally.

Chilingsworth
2012-03-01, 12:59 AM
Another possibility is that the requested payment is needed to offset the distraction from the outsider's other duities. Or, maybe, it's actually needed for the outsider to perform the task somehow.

LibraryOgre
2012-03-01, 01:03 AM
Also, consider it an opportunity for the good creature to spread good... to ask for things that the person might not normally consider, and even to make them a better person.

Also, if they're not in ethical agreement (if your LG wizard summons a CG outsider), they may also require something outside of their ethical alignment... like asking them to free someone wrongly imprisoned, for example. Sure, it's a quick two spells to the wizard to do quick and easy (teleport/teleport), but the ethical impact is more to the liking of the creature.

navar100
2012-03-01, 09:40 AM
It tends to be self-limiting by the caster. A Good caster who genuinely casts Planar Ally for the purpose of needing Good Outsider aid is not going to be casting the spell every day for every task that needs to be done. When he casts Planar Ally it's for a very good reason, literally and figuratively. When it is cast so rarely and sparingly, dealing with the payment on a case-by-case basis, even declaring no payment at all because the Task is Truly Good Important, is easy enough.

If you are having trouble dealing with the payment, the problem is not the payment. The problem is the caster is abusing the spell. Giving the benefit of the doubt it's not intentional, the Good Outsider would still, in a Good way, instruct the spellcaster not to be casting the spell for everything.

ZeroGear
2012-03-01, 11:38 AM
Mechanically speaking, the payment is a way to make sure the spell is not abused.
Game mechanics aside, however, there are several reasons why the payment is upfront rant her than later:
1) it is a show of good faith. This shows the caster is not asking for a favor with the intent to skimp out on the payment.
2) it makes sure the payment is received in case the outsider is dismissed/killed in the line of duty.
3) the payment is often used for other purposes. This includes being given to the church, used to create good magic items, donated to pay for the needy, and provide funds for armor (gods can't just make everything you know.)

There are probably more reasons, but there are the most likely.