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Calanon
2012-03-01, 02:51 AM
In one of my greatest flaws I seem to have given a little high school girl my "friends" copy of the Book of Erotic Fantasy, ever since she has constantly barraged me with stupid questions pertaining to the dirty deed in D&D

The most recent? "How does a Lich have kids?" Normally I would have responded "They don't, no genitals" but then she directed me to multiple instances where it says people can be descendants of Lichs :smalleek:

Now I'm stuck looking at my ceiling wondering to myself in the undead of night "How does a Lich reproduce?" :smallconfused:

I have already had my head ripped off and spit out by my friends for showing her that book so please spare me... :smallfrown:

NinjaStylerobot
2012-03-01, 02:55 AM
They where descendants, then the person became a lich.

The dark magics begin to follow the family.

SAFE!

Emperor Ing
2012-03-01, 02:57 AM
Ya I would agree. Someone is the son/daughter of someone who eventually became a lich. Such powerful EEEVIIILLL magics were so powerful and EEEEEVIIIIILLLLL that it can have plausible secondary effects, such as sorcerous abilities that manifest in the Lich's descendants.

Eurus
2012-03-01, 02:59 AM
I'd argue that it's not unreasonable for a powerful spellcaster who wanted to continue his bloodline to figure out a spell that would allow him to do it regardless of any, erm, handicaps.

Velaryon
2012-03-01, 03:03 AM
Could the lich not simply polymorph himself into a living creature long enough to do the deed, similar to a dragon taking on human form to make a half-dragon baby? If the lich is female, this probably wouldn't work though since polymorph effects generally wouldn't last long enough to carry a baby to term.

Doorhandle
2012-03-01, 03:04 AM
Maybe the lech lich doesn't even have to be a direct ancestor?

Lord knows there are negative effects for being lich-slapped and therfore being level-drained while pregnant.

Grinner
2012-03-01, 03:22 AM
Soul transfer?


I have already had my head ripped off and spit out by my friends for showing her that book so please spare me... :smallfrown:

No.

What the hell!?

Calanon
2012-03-01, 03:24 AM
I've been looking through the book of... naughty thoughts :smallredface: and I can't seem to find a spell that "magically" makes a person pregnant...

I cannot express how much I hate that book and how much I regret my actions...

Grinner
2012-03-01, 03:27 AM
I've been looking through the book of... naughty thoughts :smallredface: and I can't seem to find a spell that "magically" makes a person pregnant...

I cannot express how much I hate that book and how much I regret my actions...

You could probably homebrew one easily enough.

Calanon
2012-03-01, 03:29 AM
You could probably homebrew one easily enough.

I know I could, Hell there is a base for it in the stupid book, But I REALLY don't want to... and I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY DON'T! :smallfrown:

NinjaStylerobot
2012-03-01, 03:33 AM
I know I could, Hell there is a base for it in the stupid book, But I REALLY don't want to... and I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY DON'T! :smallfrown:

You don't have to.

The explanation for EVIL powers:

Experimentation.

The pitch experiments on his family after lichdom.

Both evil and non preggo spell.

GolemsVoice
2012-03-01, 03:35 AM
He could perhaps also magically clone somebody. I guess powerful spellcasters have their ways. And there IS the feat Lich-Loved. And it's even from an official sourcebook. Look upon it, my friends, and despair.

But why don't you task HER with coming up with an explanation?

Calanon
2012-03-01, 03:35 AM
You don't have to.

The explanation for EVIL powers:

Experimentation.

The pitch Lich experiments on his family after lichdom.

Both evil and non preggo spell.

...I'm not following O_O


He could perhaps also magically clone somebody. I guess powerful spellcasters have their ways. And there IS the feat Lich-Loved. And it's even from an official sourcebook. Look upon it, my friends, and despair.

But why don't you task HER with coming up with an explanation?

the last time I whispered any ideas into this girls head we had an Undead Campaign and she decided to be a human Mystic Theurge with the Lichloved feat... This girl and I have had a previous relationship before and I realized she was crazy :smallbiggrin: So that quickly ended and she never got over it so now every time she plays in our group she purposely makes it her goal to sexually harass me :smallfrown: Oh the lulz we've had at my expense :smallbiggrin:

Her: "Make a Constitution check"
Me: *Rolls d20* I got a 22, why did I have to roll th-
Her: Oh my gawd! for 22 hours!? Have you no shame!?
Me: *Facepalm*
DM & pals: Aww thats so cute

I'm not gonna leave the group just because some girl has issues with personal space :smallamused:

Kogak
2012-03-01, 03:36 AM
I seem to recall reading somewhere that gentle repose would work to some effect if properly done, and combined with a wish/miracle would allow a lich to procreate. I seem to remember seeing this question in a thread somewhere else once.

Ryu_Bonkosi
2012-03-01, 03:58 AM
Hey, at least you didn't show her Bride of Portable Hole. The stories I've heard...*shudder*

I jest, I jest.

But seriously, Lich is an acquired template, work from there.

Alleran
2012-03-01, 04:51 AM
The Lichloved feat in BoVD does point out that repeated sexual acts committed with the Undead will grant powers to an individual.

I would imagine that it isn't much of a step from there to impregnation.

GolemsVoice
2012-03-01, 04:59 AM
the last time I whispered any ideas into this girls head we had an Undead Campaign and she decided to be a human Mystic Theurge with the Lichloved feat... This girl and I have had a previous relationship before and I realized she was crazy So that quickly ended and she never got over it so now every time she plays in our group she purposely makes it her goal to sexually harass me Oh the lulz we've had at my expense

I didn't know she was crazy. Perhaps it's best not to answer her question at all? Because you'll lose one way or another.

Calanon
2012-03-01, 05:00 AM
But seriously, Lich is an acquired template, work from there.

You see first I saw this...


The Lichloved feat in BoVD does point out that repeated sexual acts committed with the Undead will grant powers to an individual.

...And then I saw this Because it was the next comment

My question is how does one person in a family effect another persons entire families genetic outcome? and I'm talking about a person who can't even reproduce... I've never heard of a Lich that had children that survived and had children after the parent performed the Ritual of the Endless Night :smallconfused:

Poil
2012-03-01, 06:10 AM
Since becoming a lich isn't instantaneous couldn't a child be conceived during the transformation?

NinjaStylerobot
2012-03-01, 06:29 AM
My question is how does one person in a family effect another persons entire families genetic outcome? and I'm talking about a person who can't even reproduce... I've never heard of a Lich that had children that survived and had children after the parent performed the Ritual of the Endless Night :smallconfused:

You have a son. Then become lich. You experiment on your son. Your son has now EVILS POWRS

Roderick_BR
2012-03-01, 08:26 AM
I've been looking through the book of... naughty thoughts :smallredface: and I can't seem to find a spell that "magically" makes a person pregnant...

I cannot express how much I hate that book and how much I regret my actions...

How bad a person am I, if my first thought about reading said book was "hey, some spells here could be very broken if used in a more serious campaign" instead of thinking the implications of bringing erotism to the game table at all?

Or how nerd?

Mastikator
2012-03-01, 08:42 AM
If demons and dragons get to impregnate whomever they want, why can't the undead?

prufock
2012-03-01, 08:49 AM
Best answer: Don't take anything in that book too seriously.

NikitaDarkstar
2012-03-01, 09:10 AM
Just say "It's magic" and move on. Discussions like this are even worse than thinking to much about the half-vampire template.

Sith_Happens
2012-03-01, 09:13 AM
How bad a person am I, if my first thought about reading said book was "hey, some spells here could be very broken if used in a more serious campaign" instead of thinking the implications of bringing erotism to the game table at all?

On the other end of the power spectrum, one of said book's base classes needs a Constitution score of at least (IIRC) 20 just to successfully prepare its spells.

TriForce
2012-03-01, 09:35 AM
You see first I saw this...



...And then I saw this Because it was the next comment

My question is how does one person in a family effect another persons entire families genetic outcome? and I'm talking about a person who can't even reproduce... I've never heard of a Lich that had children that survived and had children after the parent performed the Ritual of the Endless Night :smallconfused:

simple!

a wizard LICH did it

its magic, anything can happen

Mystify
2012-03-01, 09:37 AM
I heard there was an item to keep undead... potent. Something along the lines of a vest of gentle repose.

The Tygre
2012-03-01, 09:53 AM
How bad a person am I, if my first thought about reading said book was "hey, some spells here could be very broken if used in a more serious campaign" instead of thinking the implications of bringing erotism to the game table at all?

Or how nerd?

What, are you kidding? Ignore tone, some of these spells are damn powerful. Power Word: Orgasm has the exact same effect as Power Word: Stun, but with no save. Ignore the stupidity and focus on those two beautiful words right there. No. Save.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-01, 02:04 PM
Wish. Miracle.

Really, don't go any further. Just pick one or both these spells and that's your answer. "A 9th level spell did it."

Whybird
2012-03-01, 03:07 PM
Maybe it's possible with RAW but the undead having children would certainly kill the tone of how being a Lich works: the whole point of lichdom is that you've become so obsessed with power that you traded everything that made you human away for it.

If I wanted to do a thing with Liches and their children then I'd have the lich in question thinking about it purely in cold, clinical terms. They don't want a child for love -- they just want a backup caster who they can mould and manipulate as they please, and who isn't affected by those pesky Turn Undeads. If they can get one without having to actually experience all that awful human emotion, so much the better. Under those circumstances, I can absolutely see a lich sending its minions to kidnap a human child, massacre its parents, and then moulding the kid in its own image as he grew up -- until you've got an ten-year-old kid with a bunch of sorceror levels, undying loyalty to his 'father', and a knack for talking adventurers into believing that he needs to be rescued then leading them into a trap.

Steward
2012-03-01, 03:51 PM
Maybe it's possible with RAW but the undead having children would certainly kill the tone of how being a Lich works: the whole point of lichdom is that you've become so obsessed with power that you traded everything that made you human away for it.

I agree with this. I really like the idea of certain creature types being fundamentally different from humans both in mindset and in physical attributes. (Too often Aberrations, Undead, etc. are just really ugly humans with strange powers, which is OK but kind of dull after a while...) I feel as if a lich chose to have a child in any way other than the kidnapping method, it should require some kind of powerful magic or artifice and they shouldn't just be naturally fertile.

The Succubus
2012-03-01, 04:06 PM
Three words:

Loved

the

bone.

:smallwink:

Tengu_temp
2012-03-01, 06:02 PM
the last time I whispered any ideas into this girls head we had an Undead Campaign and she decided to be a human Mystic Theurge with the Lichloved feat...

So, Tsukiko?

Calanon
2012-03-01, 06:18 PM
So, Tsukiko?

Essentially yep Except more sadistic... and spiteful in her nature... and she would openly rape the dead bodies of her enemies regardless of species, gender, class or whatever they did to her before hand... Was pretty messed up when near the end of the game we all had to try and kill each other... Last man standing? Me :smallamused:

Slayer Lord
2012-03-01, 08:47 PM
Sounds like this gal has a lot of psychological problems. Best refer her to a mental health specialist.

But as to your question, I'd go with the evil magics following the family as a curse, or something like that. A lich wanting to have children after the fact, or someone depraved enough to want to become one having kids, doesn't make much sense to me.

Calanon
2012-03-01, 09:28 PM
Sounds like this gal has a lot of psychological problems. Best refer her to a mental health specialist.

It was an Evil campaign (Most of our games are) So we mostly ignore each others disturbing reactions; Hell I'm not any better, I literally made the group go out of its way to Plane shift to Elysium and had us all go on a killing spree all in an effort to capture (and rape might I add) Vhara (Yes, the Horse women) and get her to cry out Angel Tear's So I can Apocalypse From The Sky Elysium into submission so our Cleric of Orcus (Her) could gate in an Army of Demons to utterly destroy Elysium... Am I REALLY any worse then her?

Moral of this Story? My DM's Evil Campaigns go wild really quickly


But as to your question, I'd go with the evil magics following the family as a curse, or something like that. A lich wanting to have children after the fact, or someone depraved enough to want to become one having kids, doesn't make much sense to me.

Fair enough, I suppose Lichdom stains an entire families bloodline indirectly or not...

Swooper
2012-03-01, 09:33 PM
Three words:

Loved

the

bone.

:smallwink:
Three words:

Rigor mortis, baby :smallcool:

RandomNPC
2012-03-01, 09:57 PM
If the longest game I've ever run didn't already feature a lich fighting the party for the throne of reality, I'd so make this thread my next game idea.

I'd go for the kids before lichdom, becoming a lich says you do something horrific and unspeakable, maybe it's bad enough that the threads of reality alter enough to mark your family, maybe they detect as undead, or get sickened at turn undead, does negative energy heal them? Make some rules about how closely related you have to be before heal/harm work in the wrong direction, and let's home-brew a family tree of who gets what and how far down the tree it goes.

Slayer Lord
2012-03-02, 02:41 AM
It was an Evil campaign (Most of our games are) So we mostly ignore each others disturbing reactions; Hell I'm not any better, I literally made the group go out of its way to Plane shift to Elysium and had us all go on a killing spree all in an effort to capture (and rape might I add) Vhara (Yes, the Horse women) and get her to cry out Angel Tear's So I can Apocalypse From The Sky Elysium into submission so our Cleric of Orcus (Her) could gate in an Army of Demons to utterly destroy Elysium... Am I REALLY any worse then her?

Moral of this Story? My DM's Evil Campaigns go wild really quickly


:smalleek: Alrighty then.

Moogleking
2012-03-02, 05:59 AM
He has to find someone to bone.

Traab
2012-03-02, 10:30 AM
The Suel Imperium also had its own form of liches, the Suel lich — powerful wizards who learned the secrets of transferring their souls from one body to the next — at the cost of the bodies burning out in brief periods.

Workaround? They bone before they become bones.

Slipperychicken
2012-03-02, 04:19 PM
You could show her the thread and say no one knows, but it's either really nasty, involves magic, or both.

If I needed a fluff reason for it, I'd say there's a spell out there that makes it work. Otherwise, pemanencied Polymorph/Alter Self.

Truthseeker
2012-03-02, 05:59 PM
:smalleek: Alrighty then.

We nuke the thread from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Randomguy
2012-03-02, 11:38 PM
Funnily enough, In a short story I once read (Based off of another game called battle for wesnoth, not d&d) one of the characters was a necromancer whose parents were both liches and had been that way since before she was born. They "created" her using some sort of magical ritual. The story (understandably) didn't go into much detail, but I imagine it involved magically merging DNA without the use of reproductive organs. Kind of like the magical equivalent of in-vitro fertilization.

The conversation in which this was mentioned went something like this:

Necromancer: "My parents are dead."
Necromancer's friend: "... I'm sorry? "

Slipperychicken
2012-03-03, 12:10 AM
magically merging DNA without the use of reproductive organs. Kind of like the magical equivalent of in-vitro fertilization.


They could've done that to spawn the first cell, then grown it like a Clone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm), in a laboratory. Except it would be a legit clone, instead of a soulless body.


Wish/Miracle, and straight-up divine intervention aren't out of the question either.

Chilingsworth
2012-03-03, 12:58 AM
Actually, BoEF had a solution: Would be lich gets a vest of gentle repose (item detailed in said book), would be lich puts on vest before lichification. Would be lich becomes lich, never takes of vest. His/her reproductive organs remain perfectly functional, at least acording to BoEF.

Calanon
2012-03-03, 01:31 AM
Actually, BoEF had a solution: Would be lich gets a vest of gentle repose (item detailed in said book), would be lich puts on vest before lichification. Would be lich becomes lich, never takes of vest. His/her reproductive organs remain perfectly functional, at least acording to BoEF.

I think after a while the Lich is going to get a better Vest then a Vest of Gentle Repose or something... I mean yes they can still wear Torse equipment (Torse and Vest take up 2 separate slots apparently) but why would you waste the slot!? so you can have children? at this point I'm tempted to take Wish as the only logical choice for a Lich having any hope at children

Starshade
2012-03-03, 08:09 AM
Isn't there some half dragon elf lich in Eberron who's got plans to resurrect her house, who's the extinct house who got the mark of Death? Anything in Eberron to this effect, concidering that elf lich is the sole existing person in Eberron with the (not functional since she's dead) Mark of Death?

FearlessGnome
2012-03-03, 11:16 AM
I've been looking through the book of... naughty thoughts :smallredface: and I can't seem to find a spell that "magically" makes a person pregnant...

Dragon Magazine #300, page 56. "Searing Seed", an 8th level Corrupt spell. It impregnates a Living target with the seed of an 'unknown Evil Outsider'. The gestation takes 1d3 rounds, after which an infant is born, dealing d6/cl damage + 2d6 con damage to a female victim, or 4d6 con damage to a male "since their bodies are not normally capable of giving birth". It grows to Adult age in one round, and then tries to kill its birth parent. Whether it succeeds or not, it is a free willed Evil copy of the victim, with all their feats, class levels, ability scores and racial abilities, plus the Half-Fiend template.

In the darkest of dark campaign worlds, somewhere in Baator is an Epic Hero of Good who is strength drained down to zero, exposed to this spell, healed up, exposed to this spell, healed up, etc, giving birth to an Epic Half-Fiend a minute for all eternity.

This appears to be the only 'impregnation spell' in dnd. It... doesn't see play a lot.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-03, 11:26 AM
Dragon Magazine #300, page 56. "Searing Seed", an 8th level Corrupt spell. It impregnates a Living target with the seed of an 'unknown Evil Outsider'. The gestation takes 1d3 rounds, after which an infant is born, dealing d6/cl damage + 2d6 con damage to a female victim, or 4d6 con damage to a male "since their bodies are not normally capable of giving birth". It grows to Adult age in one round, and then tries to kill its birth parent. Whether it succeeds or not, it is a free willed Evil copy of the victim, with all their feats, class levels, ability scores and racial abilities, plus the Half-Fiend template.

In the darkest of dark campaign worlds, somewhere in Baator is an Epic Hero of Good who is strength drained down to zero, exposed to this spell, healed up, exposed to this spell, healed up, etc, giving birth to an Epic Half-Fiend a minute for all eternity.

This appears to be the only 'impregnation spell' in dnd. It... doesn't see play a lot.

That. That is the best spell ever. Bestest of the best. I have to hunt down the full written stats so I can use it in a campaign. It's just what I needed...

Thanks for sharing!

Mono Vertigo
2012-03-03, 11:30 AM
Dragon Magazine #300, page 56. "Searing Seed", an 8th level Corrupt spell. It impregnates a Living target with the seed of an 'unknown Evil Outsider'. The gestation takes 1d3 rounds, after which an infant is born, dealing d6/cl damage + 2d6 con damage to a female victim, or 4d6 con damage to a male "since their bodies are not normally capable of giving birth". It grows to Adult age in one round, and then tries to kill its birth parent. Whether it succeeds or not, it is a free willed Evil copy of the victim, with all their feats, class levels, ability scores and racial abilities, plus the Half-Fiend template.

In the darkest of dark campaign worlds, somewhere in Baator is an Epic Hero of Good who is strength drained down to zero, exposed to this spell, healed up, exposed to this spell, healed up, etc, giving birth to an Epic Half-Fiend a minute for all eternity.

This appears to be the only 'impregnation spell' in dnd. It... doesn't see play a lot.
... I swear it's going to give me nightmares tonight.

shadow_archmagi
2012-03-03, 11:45 AM
Well, there's all kinds of ways that can happen.

1. Since the undeadification process isn't instantaneous, there's presumably a period of time where the caster has officially become a Lich and created a phylactery but hasn't withered away yet. In fact, if I remember correctly, becoming a Lich doesn't actually speed your decay- it just lets you survive it, so there could be years and years of viable breeding time.

2. Liches aren't skeletons, they're just Skeletal. There's still skin there, just not much meat underneath it, which leaves it ambiguous as to which flesh is missing. Since the world should reflect the players to some degree, it wouldn't be out of place if there were still undead gamete production going on.

3. Polymorph why not

4. Adoption. After all, it worked for Susan Sto Helit...

FearlessGnome
2012-03-03, 03:11 PM
Technically, 'Spark of Life' in the Spell Compendium makes a Lich vulnerable to spells that only target the living for a little while, so if you Spark of Life them, they are fair game for Searing Seed. What you end up with is an Evil, deformed Half-Fiend Lich baby who really hates their parent (and likely the rest of the world as well), but hey, if adoption is out... At least you skip the teenage years, and you know they'll develop skills in the same profession as yourself. :smallbiggrin:

Tiki Snakes
2012-03-03, 03:28 PM
Do liches, by RAW, lose their fertility?
I checked what I could on the SRD. I don't see anything that suggests their fertility wouldn't be the same as before lichhood (except common sense, but I think that's long since lost it's relevance given what we are discussing).

I believe that by RAW, a Lich has a child in exactly the same way that anyone else does. Give or take.

Beowulf DW
2012-03-03, 04:26 PM
You have a son. Then become lich. You experiment on your son. Your son has now EVILS POWRS

There's a lich in 8-bit Theatre who is the father of a vampire. When the...implications are brought up, the lich threatens to energy drain anyone who makes a "boned" joke.

Calanon
2012-03-03, 04:44 PM
Dragon Magazine #300, page 56. "Searing Seed", an 8th level Corrupt spell. It impregnates a Living target with the seed of an 'unknown Evil Outsider'. The gestation takes 1d3 rounds, after which an infant is born, dealing d6/cl damage + 2d6 con damage to a female victim, or 4d6 con damage to a male "since their bodies are not normally capable of giving birth". It grows to Adult age in one round, and then tries to kill its birth parent. Whether it succeeds or not, it is a free willed Evil copy of the victim, with all their feats, class levels, ability scores and racial abilities, plus the Half-Fiend template.

In the darkest of dark campaign worlds, somewhere in Baator is an Epic Hero of Good who is strength drained down to zero, exposed to this spell, healed up, exposed to this spell, healed up, etc, giving birth to an Epic Half-Fiend a minute for all eternity.

This appears to be the only 'impregnation spell' in dnd. It... doesn't see play a lot.

This actually does complete my quest, but honestly I could have lived without that image burned into my head... Reminds me of the Eclipse from Berserk honestly... with a few minor modifications.



1. Since the undeadification process isn't instantaneous, there's presumably a period of time where the caster has officially become a Lich and created a phylactery but hasn't withered away yet. In fact, if I remember correctly, becoming a Lich doesn't actually speed your decay- it just lets you survive it, so there could be years and years of viable breeding time.

The book of naughty things specifically states that after dying creatures only have a few minutes before they completely lose the ability to reproduce.


2. Liches aren't skeletons, they're just Skeletal. There's still skin there, just not much meat underneath it, which leaves it ambiguous as to which flesh is missing. Since the world should reflect the players to some degree, it wouldn't be out of place if there were still undead gamete production going on.

Since there is no bone in your... "bone" I'm assuming its the first thing to go


3. Polymorph why not

Makes complete sense actually...


4. Adoption. After all, it worked for Susan Sto Helit...

No bloodline relation therefore no connection to the Lich other then "He/She raise me"


Do liches, by RAW, lose their fertility?
I checked what I could on the SRD. I don't see anything that suggests their fertility wouldn't be the same as before lichhood (except common sense, but I think that's long since lost it's relevance given what we are discussing).

I believe that by RAW, a Lich has a child in exactly the same way that anyone else does. Give or take.

Nothing says by RAW that any undead actually loses the ability to reproduce hell there is a Half-Vampire template for this very reason but my question is how would a Lich have children? not much sense right? They literally lack any form of genitals.



There's a lich in 8-bit Theatre who is the father of a vampire. When the...implications are brought up, the lich threatens to energy drain anyone who makes a "boned" joke.

I am now making this exact same threat, the next person to make a "Boned" joke gets a Metamagic'd Enervation (Much more optimized) to the face :smallannoyed:

Tiki Snakes
2012-03-03, 06:22 PM
Nothing says by RAW that any undead actually loses the ability to reproduce hell there is a Half-Vampire template for this very reason but my question is how would a Lich have children? not much sense right? They literally lack any form of genitals.

Well, that might be an issue if your Liches are the Skeletal Type, but I always envisioned them as being much more towards the preserved end of the scale. Which is to say, mostly intact.

I'll leave the specifics to our collective imaginations.

Silverlich
2012-03-03, 06:29 PM
4. Adoption. After all, it worked for Susan Sto Helit...

I feel like that was more a consequence of the nature of Discworld death than anything else. Ysabel was the (adopted) daughter of Grandaddy Death, but did not inherit the powers. Mort was Death's apprentice, but for several chapters was actually Death (not the character, the Duty). This could have made Susan inherit. Also, her parents were clearly terrified that she would manifest powers. As fear is a form of belief (see Hogfather), this is Discworld, where belief alone can cause physical changes, and she is probably more susceptible to this (From Ysabel and Mort's connection with Death) there's no wonder she manifested powers. None of which helps us with Lichkids. But, oh well.

Calanon
2012-03-03, 09:18 PM
Well, that might be an issue if your Liches are the Skeletal Type, but I always envisioned them as being much more towards the preserved end of the scale. Which is to say, mostly intact.

I'll leave the specifics to our collective imaginations.

I imagine Lichs as decomposing slowly and slowly until you get to the point where you are just skeletal. For example when a creature first becomes a Lich they look like themselves until Rigor Mortis starts to set in and then they start going through the process of decomposing. Lichdom is more of a physical death that leaves your mind and spirit in tact.

Mystify
2012-03-03, 09:25 PM
I imagine Lichs as decomposing slowly and slowly until you get to the point where you are just skeletal. For example when a creature first becomes a Lich they look like themselves until Rigor Mortis starts to set in and then they start going through the process of decomposing. Lichdom is more of a physical death that leaves your mind and spirit in tact.
And what state are you in when you die and are recreated?

Calanon
2012-03-03, 10:33 PM
And what state are you in when you die and are recreated?

I'd imagine that you'd be a fresh bodied [insert race] here when you first become a Lich :smallconfused: I'm not sure if anything decomposing already would need to be a Lich...

Tiki Snakes
2012-03-03, 10:44 PM
I'd imagine that you'd be a fresh bodied [insert race] here when you first become a Lich :smallconfused: I'm not sure if anything decomposing already would need to be a Lich...

I'm assuming he means when adventurers destroy you, but fail to find your philactery and you reform.

Calanon
2012-03-03, 11:04 PM
I'm assuming he means when adventurers destroy you, but fail to find your philactery and you reform.

You appear as a Fresh Corpse when you first become a Lich and when you are destroyed and reform.

Its hard to tell the difference (Appearance wise) between a Freshly made Lich and a normal living human being :smallfrown:

Sgt. Cookie
2012-03-04, 08:52 AM
Just say "It's magic" and move on. Discussions like this are even worse than thinking to much about the half-vampire template.

To explain the half-vampire, we must first explain the "normal" vampire.

A vampire, as we all know, is an undead being capable of turning others into vampires. How does this work? Well, a vampire is a conduit for a form of "negative life force" as it were. Living things are filled with normal life energy, which manifests itself as a physical fortitude (Constitution), once the life force is gone, so is that fortitude. When a vampire consumes the blood of a living humanoid, it drains life force. Once the life force of the humanoid is utterly drained, then the vampire's own negative life force takes over the humanoid.

During a pregnancy, the unborn child is still gathering life force, therefore, even if the "taint" of a vampire enters the child, it is still able to gather more life force. However, the negative life force cannot be destroyed so simply, as such it arrogantly keeps itself attached to the child. Eventually, the two life forces "mix" to create the phenomenon known as half-vampires.

Calanon
2012-03-04, 05:12 PM
To explain the half-vampire, we must first explain the "normal" vampire.

A vampire, as we all know, is an undead being capable of turning others into vampires. How does this work? Well, a vampire is a conduit for a form of "negative life force" as it were. Living things are filled with normal life energy, which manifests itself as a physical fortitude (Constitution), once the life force is gone, so is that fortitude. When a vampire consumes the blood of a living humanoid, it drains life force. Once the life force of the humanoid is utterly drained, then the vampire's own negative life force takes over the humanoid.

During a pregnancy, the unborn child is still gathering life force, therefore, even if the "taint" of a vampire enters the child, it is still able to gather more life force. However, the negative life force cannot be destroyed so simply, as such it arrogantly keeps itself attached to the child. Eventually, the two life forces "mix" to create the phenomenon known as half-vampires.

That was actually educational Sarge :smallsmile: This has actually made me fairly curious how any and all undead reproduce... I wonder how a Half-Wight would exist? If Imhotep (The Mummy) were to attempt at reproduction sexually would a half-mummy be created? or would it come out as a still-born? for that matter are all Undead half-breeds "born" as still-born?

hamishspence
2012-03-04, 05:30 PM
There's a bunch of "half-undead" template in Dragon 313 "Races of Power" (November 2003)

Katane (half-vampire)
Gheden (half-zombie)
Ghul (half-ghoul)
Fetch (half-ghost)

It goes into some detail on each. Most half-undead are created when the mother is transformed into a vampire, ghoul, or wight while pregnant, though oddly it doesn't give a "half-wight" template.

Fetches tend to be either born when "the gods allow a woman to carry the child of her deceased lover's spirit" or when incorporeal undead are restored to life through flawed magic.

Ghedens tend to be produced when mortal essence is melded with skeletons, zombies, or other undead automatons, though sometimes botched resurrections produce them.

There's also a generic "deathtouched" template for those more distantly related.

phantomreader42
2012-03-04, 05:35 PM
How bad a person am I, if my first thought about reading said book was "hey, some spells here could be very broken if used in a more serious campaign" instead of thinking the implications of bringing erotism to the game table at all?

Or how nerd?

Reverse Gender is a pretty awesome disguise spell. And a good way to stop certain party members from annoying you.

Also, I'm thinking of creating a house rule that all elven wizards have Block The Seed as a bonus spell. Elves learned the value of birth control long ago, since their children take decades to mature. And I'm not the first to make that joke, I've seen it cited somewhere as why such a long-lived race with so much magical power doesn't spread and rule the world.