[3.5]Pimp my ultimate magus~! advice needed

[macdaddy]

After much thought, I have decided to go for a Beguiler/Focused Specialist Conjurer/Ultimate Magus character. I am planning out the build and have a few open areas of uncertainty and am looking for suggestions for help. :)

Books I have access to
We are starting at 1st level, and have access to Core, Complete XXX(Arcane, mage, champion, etc al), and the Spell Compendium. NO dragon magazine, races of stone, races of the wild, tome of battle, guide to faerun, etc al.


Race: Human
Note: I would like to be a hafling, but due to the level difference between Beguiler and Wizard, this is not possible, as it would royally screw me on XP. Also, I think the bonus feat makes a BIG difference for the build.

Rolled Stats:
S:10 D:14 C:14 I:18 W:13 Chr:14

I placed the 14 into Charisma to get the most out of the social interaction skills of the Beguiler, though I would be more than willing to swap Wis and Chr if others thought it would be better that way.

skill selection
I plan on bypassing the trap disabling skills (we have a rouge) for Diplomacy, disguise, bluff, sense motive, spot, etc. By 3rd level, I should have:
Diplomacy: 4 + 4(synergy) + 2 = 10
Sense Motive: 5
Bluff: 5
Disguise: 5 + 2(synergy) + 2 = 9 + 10 from disguise spell + 2 from kit = 21 :)
Gather Information: 4 + 2(synergy) + 2 = 8

This will give me more opportunity for "role-playing", being a spy, getting information, plot hooks, etc al. Using hypnosis, diplomacy, bluff, and/or charm person in conjunction with the disguise should allow me to impersonate your aged halfling grandma :) mwuahahahaha. I think it fits along with the Beguiler class and even the conjurer, using indirect means to solve problems! Probably will only be used occasionally, but when I do, it should be spectacular.:smallcool:

After that, I will throw a couple into disguise on occasion (darn cross class double point expenditure) to help counter high spot rolls or later on when enemies can see through the disguise spell, while keeping my spellcraft, concentration, and knowledge(arcana) maxed. Get the skill trick for identifying monsters and put at least 1 point into each knowledge, preferably 5 in each over time. Once I get into ultimate magus, I will begin maxing UMD. I should be able to keep 4-5 other class skills maxed or 2-3 + 1 cross class beguiler skill(like disguise)

And no, I am not going to name my character pistachio disguisey. Still working on a name.:smallbiggrin:

Leveling Strategy:
1. Beguiler 1: Practiced Spell Caster(Beguiler), Extend Spell
2. Focused Specialist Conjurer 1 - Exclude Illusion, Enchantment, and Evocation. Class Variant Fighter Feats: Improved initiative
3. Focused Specialist Conjurer 2 Sculpt Spell
4. Focused Specialist Conjurer 3
5. Focused Specialist Conjurer 4
6. Ultimate Magus 1 Meta Magic School Focus(Conj)
7. Ultimate Magus 2
8. Ultimate Magus 3 class Feature: Augment Casting
9. Ultimate Magus 4 Split Ray
10. Ultimate Magus 5 Bonus MetaMagic Feat
11. Ultimate Magus 6
12. Ultimate Magus 7 Spell Focus(Conjuration)
13. Ultimate Magus 8
14. Ultimate Magus 9 Bonus MetaMagic Feat
15. Ultimate Magus 10 Spell Focus(Transmutation)
16. Master Specialist 1 Bonus Skill Focus(Spell Craft)
17. Arch Mage 1 Master Sculpter
18. Arch Mage 2 Open Feat
19. Arch Mage 3
20. Arch Mage 4 Spell like ability: Time Stop

I banned Illusion/Enchantment/Evocation. I should get decent access to illusion/charm spells from the beguiler class, especially once I hit 10th level and gain access to 2nd level beguiler spells. Sucks that I have to wait that long, but I can still use scrolls of illusion(if necessary) and parlay UMD into using wands/etc. I kept access to necromancy because it has some good ray debuffs that should work brilliantly with SplitRay.

I need a metamagic feat in order to take sculpt spell or split ray. So, I decided to take Extend spell. Its not great, but it is useful at lower levels (rope trick comes to mind as well as a few buff spells).

I did not take spellfocus(Conj) at 3rd level and Master Specialist at 5th level, because I felt that taking sculpt spell and metamagic school focus would be more powerful at lower levels. Besides, I don't really need 5 levels of ArchMage, 4 bonus abilities are plenty.

really need help with filling open feats
This leaves me with 2 open metamagic feats from ultimate mage, and an open feat at 18th level. I was a little unsure of what to take for these selections. Empower seems like it may be useful (empowered twinned ennervation? drop 8 levels please! boo yeah!), but it won't affect to many spells. Quicken spell seems like a good candidate, but Persistent spell doesn't (even if I choose a conj spell, that is still +5, and I will only have 4th level beguiler spells).

Any good suggestions for these feats? Perhaps I should move Split Rat to my open feat at 10th and take a non-metamagic feat?

[Feralventas]

Since you've banned Evocation, Retributive Spell (Metamagic) might be worth picking up. Lacking contingency, RetSpell is an easy way to punish folks for attacking you. Raises the spell level by one.

[macdaddy]

I know, losing contingency hurts. I lose it in all forms by banning illusion and evocation. :(

Retributive spell looks pretty cool, but I was thinking that Craft Contingent Spell (which I could get at ..... 18th? because it is an item creation, not metamagic crap!) would do the same thing as Contingency. Too bad I cant work it into 12th or 15th level. Maybe I could retrain some feats (lose meta magic school focus at 12th for spell focus(conj), then take craft contingent...)

I don't see a lot of uses for retributive spell. If I am getting hit, I want to get the hell out of dodge, not hit him with a spell.... because I can't think of any that are really worth it.

[kestrel404]

I did not take spellfocus(Conj) at 3rd level and Master Specialist at 5th level, because I felt that taking sculpt spell and metamagic school focus would be more powerful at lower levels. Besides, I don't really need 5 levels of ArchMage, 4 bonus abilities are plenty.


Let's considder doing that differently, shall we?

Leveling Strategy:
1. Beguiler 1: Practiced Spell Caster(Beguiler), Extend Spell
2. Focused Specialist Conjurer 1 - Exclude Illusion, Enchantment, and Evocation. Class Variant Fighter Feats: Improved initiative
3. Focused Specialist Conjurer 2 Spell Focus(Conjuration)
4. Focused Specialist Conjurer 3
5. Master Specialist 1 Bonus Skill Focus(Spell Craft)
6. Ultimate Magus 1 Sculpt Spell
7. Ultimate Magus 2
8. Ultimate Magus 3 class Feature: Augment Casting
9. Ultimate Magus 4 Meta Magic School Focus(Conj)
10. Ultimate Magus 5 Split Ray
11. Ultimate Magus 6
12. Ultimate Magus 7 Open Feat
13. Ultimate Magus 8
14. Ultimate Magus 9 Bonus MetaMagic Feat
15. Ultimate Magus 10 Spell Focus(Transmutation)
16. Either more Master Specialist or Archmage
17. Arch Mage 1 Master Sculpter
18. Arch Mage 2 Open Feat
19. Arch Mage 3
20. Arch Mage 4 Spell like ability: Time Stop

What this change does is to kill a level without a class feature. That may not sound important, but you're effectively getting an extra feat in the long run. As it was, there was literally no difference between you taking that 1st level of Master Specialist or instead choosing another level of Conjurer - either way you got 1 bonus feat. This way, you can choose to take more arch mage later or else drop another level of archmage for Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration). It's not worth it for the Minor Esoterica (it's only about as good as Augment summoning, although you've got a free feat for it...), but there are a number of good high-level conjuration spells that have a save - and normally non-combat spells like Planeshift can be devastating if the enemy fails their will save.

But, ignoring that, either way you may want to considder some of the necromancy-themed metamagics from Libris Mortis - they're nice and they don't have to be applied to necromancy spells.

Invisible spell is also REALLY AWESOME applied to many different conjuration spells (like, say, wall of steel).

[macdaddy]

Thanx Kestrel!

I think your build is indeed better. Not sure I need the metamagic school focus on conjuration at 9th though with that build as it comes after the Ultimate Magus's Augment Casting ability. I guess with it, I could augment casting on 3 conjuration spells per day for a 0th level Beguiler spell, and save the 1st levels for later or for enhancing other spells.

so that could be an open feat, and 12th level gives me craft contingent spell as an available choice.

plus spell focus(conj) is useful as some of the good spells do incur a save.

Then I can make 17th level master specialist for Greater Spell Focus (also useful), leaving 3 levels for archmage(I think I would only take 3 of the AM abilities anyway).

Any ideas on what to spend my open feats on?
9th level: Metamagic School focus? or something else?
14th level: Bonus metamagic feat. Empower Spell? Quicken Spell?
18th level: Open feat. Persistent spell? something else?

I am not sure I can take invisible spell. I believe it is in City Scape, and not available in my book set. Too bad. Looks like a useful feat. Invisible wall of stone... they'll think its a wall of force... hahahahahah. Dispel that!

[Phaederkiel]

ha, you are using nearly exact the build i play at the moment.
some things differ, though. allow me some commenting.

I took enlarge instead of extend. It is not very good, either, but it allows me to use my benign/ baleful transpositions on a much larger range.

I bannend Nec/ench / evo. Mainly because I wanted to have mirror image by lvl 4. This was NOT a good decision. Abrupt jaunt has so far protected me from everything, I never needed the images and losing the three most offensive schools is not good in a two-caster-party. In retrospect, I woud probably keep necro or even, gasp, evocation. By hitting lvl 6, I gained acid breath, which, when sculpted, is blast enough.

Thus the question: at which lvl do you want to play?

I also had two flaws, one gave me sudden maximize (probably to be retrained, but GREAT at the moment, especially with scroll-cheese) and versatile spellcaster, which i did not need much.

I would advise against Imp Ini (this, from MY mouth...) and instead keep the scrolls. The school focus allows you to put metamagic into scrolls with no spelllvl added. Which is quite good. I made myself a whole bunch of enlarged transposition scrolls, some sculpted acid breath, and most recently, one sculpted and maximised Acid breath. I like it, perhaps you do too.

[gallagher]

since you are taking split ray, why not take ocular spell? it turns non-ray spells into ray spells, that you can store in your eye and then shoot out.

and everyone thinks laser vision is cool

[macdaddy]

Phaederkiel - Thanks for the advice, its nice to get some from someone who has played an Ultimate Magus.

To answer your question, we will be starting at 1st level. I seriously doubt we will get much past 12th, but I want to structure my character just in case.... :)

I banned illusion after a lot of thought, because the major spells I want are second level ones (like mirror image). I figure I can either get a scroll of it (and use my beguiler class to use it as his caster level will be high enough due to practiced spell caster alone), or just wait until my beguiler gets it. I figured I needed Evocation or Necromancy for good debufs and such, and necro seems to do it better with some good ray spells, split ray should be pretty kick arse with that.

I didn't think about scultped acid breath. That seems evil :smallbiggrin:

As for your scroll comments, I guess it depends on when I get the MMS focus, at 6th(my 1st layout) or at 9th(with kestrels progression). That is a great point about being able to scribe metamagic spells as a normal spell slot though. And, after a while, improved init will become superfulous when NerveSkitter gets moved over to my beguiler class :)

You convinced me, I will indeed keep scribe scroll :)

Which progression: my original or Kestrel's do you think would be better if I am starting at 1st level? specifically for sculpt spell and MMS focus?


==========================================

since you are taking split ray, why not take ocular spell? it turns non-ray spells into ray spells, that you can store in your eye and then shoot out.

and everyone thinks laser vision is cool

Ocular spell is from Lords of Madness, and is thus not in the list of available books. Thanks for the idea though.

[kestrel404]

Oh, here's another thought - Persist spell. I realize you've discounted it because you wouldn't be able to persist your wizard spells...except your beguiler spells would still be fair game!

Tasty persist fodder from the first 4 levels includes:
Freedom of Movement (cast at personal range), Greater Invisibility (same), Arcane Sight, Detect Thoughts (you'll want the swift concentration skill tick and a very high concentrate rank), Greater Mirror Image (!!!), and several others.

Also for considderation: Uncanny Trickster from Complete Scoundrel. Take 3 levels of that instead of archmage and you can: Drop the spell focus feat-tax (spell focus transmutation gains you almost nothing), and instead you advance Ultimate Magus class features 2 more levels - yes, that means dual-progression advancement in casting AND you get an additional use of the free-metamagic! The only downside is that you lose yet another level of Wizard casting (I think that makes it 3 levels lost?) in trade for +2 levels of Beguiler casting. A bit painful, but you still end up with 9th level spells in the end, and you get several other benefits to boot. This also means you end up advancing Master Specialist to level 3.

[macdaddy]

Any other advice from anyone?

[hex0]

Any other advice from anyone?

If you can slip Spellthief on a level that you would get a feat you could take Master Spellthief and your caster level would be redonkulous.

Also, you could even take Sublime Chord with a bit of dificulty and get some mileage out of it.

[Phaederkiel]

I thought long and hard about getting into master specialist and decided against it.

It is true, you get your feat investment back right away; but of what use is that if the feat you are getting back is a feat you would not normally take because it is strictly worse than having one more metamagic to put on spells with your school focus?

(this is only my reasoning, I just think that a skill focus, even when it is (spellcraft), is not worth getting over another utiliy/combat option)


I think I would take the feats in the order: practised spellcaster, extend/enlarge/whatevermetamagic , school focus, sculpt spell.

This is for this simple reasoning:

at 1st and 2nd and 3rd lvl, you can only metamagic 0 lvl spells. sculpted caltrops may be nice, but did not appear in my game.

4th and 5th lvl (without school focus) you can metamagic first lvl spells. But what 1st lvl spells do you have, that need to be sculpted rather than having extended/enlarged/whatevered 2nd lvl spells?

and then, at lvl 6, you gain both the most usable metamagic as well as the spells to use it on.

[kme]

Persist should be taken for the reasons outlined by kestrel404. Quicken is a must, don't skip it. Another feat you may want to consider is residual magic (CM I believe). Twin will also be useful. Really, augmenting metamagic is the main draw of ultimate magus, you should pick as many good metamagic feats as you can and make most use of it.


Also, don't pick empower, pick maximize instead. Split ray and sculpt will already take your 2nd level beguiler spells and you don't have any +3 meta magic to spend those 3rd level spells efficiently.


And yeah, you can skip MM.School focus. Augmenting will be more then enough. You can even skip archmage entirely. You don't really want to lose slots and all that archmage gives you, technically you already have from ultimate magus (sculpting, + CL, you can take reach spell too)

[Phaederkiel]

yep, you should propably pick extend far over enlarge and get persist at some point. But be conscious that you will only ever persist beguiler spells (just the same with quicken, btw) because you will not reach 4th lvl beguiler spells to sacrifice before lvl 15.

For the same reason, the metamagiced beguiler spells will alwaysbe quite lowlvl.
This is absolutely no problem with quicken, since quicken is always great, but somewhat reduces the spells that can be persisted.

Yes, there are some very good spells with a duration in the beguilers list, but for the most part you will be persisting spells like most people do: by sacrificing high lvl slots.


Metamagic school focus, by the way, helps enormously with exactly those problems. Which was the reason I took it.

Dear Kme: Why do you think it is good to skip School focus?
to me it somewhat seems to be the best feat I have at the moment...

[macdaddy]

Phaederkiel, I had just looked over my planned feat set and also realized that Sculpt Spell at 3rd and MMS focus at 6th did me little to no good. So I already restructured it. That way at least I can extend a Mage Armor or Rope Trick prior to hitting 6th level and gaining 3rd level spells.

MMS focus will help out with Quicken, and even persist, allowing me to do some conjuration spells for 3rd/4th level slots.

and a maximized Orb of X sounds like it would be pretty good too. 15d6, so save, no spell resistence. Take off 90 please. :)

Spell like ability: timestop 2/day seems pretty good to give up a focused conjuration spell slot for..... but, if I read the re-training rules correctly, I should be able to easily re-jigger some things to gain master specialist at 4th level and so on if I ever hit 15th level.

So planned feats are now:
1. Practiced Spellcaster(Beguiler). H: Extend Spell
3. Metamagic School focus(Conj)
6. Sculpt Spell
8. Augment Casting <-- where the real magic happens
9. Maximize Spell
10. [bonus] Split Ray
12. Quicken Spell
14. [bonus]Persist Spell
15. [b]Open Feat

MMS focus works well with this. It means I can augment casting of conjuration spells on the fly for smaller beguiler spells.

Examples:
at 9th level, when I gain maximize, I also have access to 2nd level beguiler spells, so I can maximize up to 3 conjuration spells for a 2nd level spell instead of a 3rd.

at 12th, when I quicken Spell, I will have access to 3rd level beguiler spells, so I can quicken up to 3 conjuration spells for those 3rd level slots instead of using a 4th level slot.

Sadly, it won't work out the same way with persistent spell, because I will never see 5th level beguiler spells. But I should still be able to persist some beguiler spells by sacrificing a 6th level wizard spell, and a few of the 3rd/4th level ones are worth doing so on occasion.

Thanx for the help guys!

Bonus point question: I looked through the augment casting description. It does not specify if applying a metamagic feat in this way results in the spell becoming a full round action or if it stays the same. I ask only because I know sorcerers have that affliction.... :) It seems that RAW, there is no effect on the casting time, but I wanted to make sure.

[kme]

I' not sure if you can combine MMSF with augment casting like that. You should check it with your DM, if he approves then it is definitely a great choice.

But the point of proving it's worth is moot because I completely forgot that augment casting can only be used with spells of level equal to your UM levels / 2. Due to this, MMSF won't become redundant after level 9 (even assuming you can't combine it with augment casting). Just don't forget that it can only be used with conjuration spells (so no rope trick).

I'll also re-mention residual magic feat (complete mage too) that is very handy for everyone who frequently uses metamagic. It can also be a way to sidestep the augment casting's requirement of it only applying to unmodified spells.

[macdaddy]

P.s Phaederkiel, what skills did you find useful for your character? Were you able to make use of any of the beguiler skills?

[Phaederkiel]

with the first beguiler lvl, I tried to cover all the bases that I wouldn`t be able to cover with the wizard. Listen / spot / slieght of hands (needed for the skilltrick that conceals spellcasting) / Search / bluff

With the wizard I invested heavily in setting specific crafts and all kind of knowledges.

I will write down the list, but it is important to note that my dm gave me a human subrace with plus 2 to int, minus 2 to wisdom and bluff as a classskill no matter what class I play. Something setting-fluffy. And monstrously powerful...

lvl 7:

bluff 10
concentration 7
craft small arms 2
craft demolition 1
craft cannons 2
craft alchemy 4
craft mechanika 4
jack handling 2
decipher script 1
diplomacy 4
disable device 1
knowledge Arcane 10
knowledge local 1
knowledge steamworks 1
knowledge firearms 1
knowledge history 3
knowledge nature 1
knowledge religion 1
listen 4
Profession gambler 3
search 4
sense motive 4
sleight of hand 5
spellcraft 10
spot 4
tumble 4

skill trick: conceal spellcasting


My verdict will come surprising: the skill I overvalued was clearly concentration. In the entire campain, i was hit once, and once I slipped in a grease. In all other situations, abrupt jaunt made me unhittable.
When you would come into a situation where you need to use concentration, something has gone severly wrong. I would rather have liked to have put points into disguise self and forgery.

[macdaddy]

Concentration is more than for just being hit. Casting while on a horse (or phantom steed) or flying, etc al. So I intend to keep mine maxed, or close to maxed. Especially because I know my GM will have enemy archers "hold" their action until I begin casting, then pincushion me in an attempt to disrupt spells.

Good idea on the Forgery skill. I re-read it and when I realized it was an opposed forgery roll, my eyes lit up! What soldier/diplomat is going to have a high forgery skill? and it is intelligence based, so I can easily get a +10 check (4 skills, 4 ability modifier, 2 for forgery kit). That works well with my disguise and bluff skills. Opens a lot of possibilities for manipulation/infiltration.

keeping knowledge(arcane) maxed seems to only be beneficial if you intend to go for archmage. Otherwise 5 in it and 1-5 in each of the other knowledge skills coupled with the "collector of stories" skill trick seems to be the best bet. That way you can identify weaknesses of enemy monsters, and then cast the appropriate spell (will save, fort save, refl save) instead of wasting a good spell on a critter that has a high will save.

[Phaederkiel]

oops. I did not read knowledge arcana good enough. We use Knowlegde arcane for Identifying residual magic instead of spellcraft. Will talk to my dm and retrain to 5. And will take the skilltrick.

I would probably consider to take a knowledge devotion if my other character was not a factotum heavily abusing exactly that feat...Never hitting with touch atacks isn´t fun, either.


and yes, forgery is a very good skill. Most DMs have a little kneejerk reaction when you try to really use it the first time, and expect jailers or other people who see a lot of documents to suddenly gain maxed crossclass forgery.

But in every other respect, this is a good skill.

I think probably the next most important skill is sleight of hand to gain the skilltrick that lets you cast without detection. Not that straight sleight of hand isn't a good skill for a spy anyway.

[macdaddy]

hmm. I was going to go with false theurgy instead because it is based on bluff, but being able to cast a spell whilst in disguise(like, oh, charm person or suggestion) could be insanely useful. I will probably have to drop some skills from knowledge arcane at 1st level to be able to get sleight of hand 4, but should be worth it.

If I was making a gish or duskblade, I would definitely take, and abuse, knowledge devotion. As a wizard type, it doesn't provide nearly the same benefit, though +1-3 on rays would be nice, if necessary, I can always throw out a true strike (you can cast extended true strike, can't you? hmmmm).

P.S.
what spells are good candidates to move over to the beguiler list? So far I am thinking that nerveskitter for level 1 is a solid choice. Allow me to buff up my init by +5 frequently (7 1st level spells for metamagic and initiative boosts), but I haven't really considered what 2nd level plus spells would be good

[Phaederkiel]

I took nerveskitter as well.
for second level, I could imagine to put Baleful transposition there, it is such a good spell.

One thing to consider is albeit to take a spell you want to frequently quicken at first lvl (instead of nerveskitter, which is immediate no matter what). Question is, what spell is interesting enough to warrant quickening at first level? Best be some conjuration, so that school focus applies.

benign transposition comes to mind, grease as well.

outside of conjuration: true strike?

[Phaederkiel]

btw: if you try to persist true strike, the forecast is rocks falling.

[macdaddy]

I am going to *avoid* persisting true strike unless the DM rains hellfire down upon us and I need to retaliate. As bad as it is, it's not *THAT* bad for a wizard, unless I take something like the Acid Splatter feat and start making ranged touch attacks for 3-6 D6 damage every round. For a Gish its a terrible abuse, just as bad as persisted wraithstrike. When I was a DM, I did not allow any such shenanigans, and I can't imagine any DM I play for allowing them either.

With "will negates" and SR, I wasn't sure baleful transposition was such a good choice. The only ones I thought were truly useful, were Alter Self(this is already on the Beguiler list, isn't it?), Lesser Celerity, Dimension Hop and possibly snake's swiftness(because I am in a group with 3 beefy fighters plus a shape shifting druid).

Lesser Celerity is probably the best. With it you can spend an immediate action to make a standard action and thus get off a spell out of turn. I am not sure if I would use it "frequently", but it would certainly be nice to pull a rabbit out of a hat and get off two spells in a round when it was really important whenever I needed too. I don't have abrupt jaunt (not allowed), so when someone moves next to me and is about to whack me, it would be nice to spam lesser celerity followed by benign transposition/dimension door, etc. Regardless, it adds a lot of utility.

[Phaederkiel]

lesser celerity gives you a move, not a standard. which is still nice for running away, but unless you can quicken something afterwards (and this is saying your dm will allow you to trade a move for a swift), you are not going to cast.


a propos celerity: I have made lvl 8 last session and am now thinking about what spells to take. The choices beeing evards tentacles, dimension door, celerity and solid fog. I will probably take evard's and DD. If I take celerity, I will do it only because I think i have better chances to acquire DD from a store than I have with celerity.


Can you tell me why you are playing an conjurer if you are not allowed the jaunt? From my practical perspective, Transmutation looks like the better school if jaunt is taken off the equation, even if only by a very small margin.
But perhaps you could get toughening transmutation actually allowed, since it is not half as good as jaunt. This question, I mean it. Do you really think the spell list that much better?

[macdaddy]

ah, must have misread lesser celerity then. Thought it was a standard action, not a move action. Not much use then.

Dimension door and evard's tentacles are great spells. mobility and battlefield control. Celerity is more situational.

My DM has not yet ruled on whether or not he will allow abrupt jaunt. I am just going to assume his answer will be no, because that would be my answer as a DM... :)

As for conjuration vs transmutation, at lower levels conjuration is better overall. Great battlefield control spells and a few debuffs. Transmuation is all about buff/debuff. For a Gish, transmutation is the obvious choice, for a wizard... it depends.

Lev 1:
Conj: Grease, Benign Transposition, Wall of Smoke, Mage Armor
Trans: Enlarge Person, Nerveskitterer, Ray of clumsiness

Lev 2:
Conj: Web, Glitterdust, Magic Tattoo, Cloud of bewilderment, Fog Cloud, Dimension hop, baleful transposition
Tran: Alter self (better for a gish), Rope Trick, Heroics

Lev 3:
Conj: Sleet Storm, Dimension step, stinking cloud, Summon III, Phantom Steed, Caustic smoke, bands of steel, corpse candle, acid breath
Tran: haste, slow, fly, shrink item, greater magic weapon, mass snake swiftness, heart of water,

Lev4:
conj: Tentacles, dimension door, solid fog, wall of sand, Summon IV, Orbs
tran: Polymorph, celerity, heart of earth, voice of the dragon, call of stone

lev 5:
conj: lesser planar binding , teleport, wall of stone, viscid glob, dimension jumper, dimension shuffle, cloudkill
tran: telekenisis, mass fly, rock to mud, greater blink

lev 6:
conj: planar binding, freezing fog, gem jump
trans: brilliant blade, flesh to stone, dissintigrate

lev 7:
conj: choking cobwebs, greater teleport, summon VII, stun ray
trans: elemental body, glass strike, reverse gravity, statue,


As you can see, the lower level spells favor conjuration somewhat. Good area effect spells, good utility spells, etc. While transmutation seems to be a LOT of single target spells(buff and debuff), and personal buffs. At any given level I can easily pick 3 conjuration spells to memorize. For Transmutation, its a little hard for the first 2 spell levels.

So, the way I see it, I will generally have 3 good, useful conjuration spells for any spell level, then use my 1-3 open spell slots for transmutation and/or necromancy. In general, I think battlefield control spells are better than generic single target debuffs and are used more often than single target buffs.

Getting Reach(+2) and Chain(+3) metamagic changes that, but even as an ultimate magus, you would have to be 12th level before you could do it as you need to be able to cast 3rd level beguiler spells and doing so eats through a TON of spell slots, so it is still situational. It would be easier to do as a warweaver (I can't use Heroes of Battle, so thats a no go).

While it would be pretty kick ass to cast haste and have it chain to the entire party, it would really suck waiting to get to 12th level to be able to do it.

I'd rather be more effective at lower levels, especially since I doubt we will get much past 9th-12th level, as that is where our campaigns tend to break down. In 15 -18 years of playing with this group, my highest level characters were a 12th level monk in hackmaster (a 5+ year campaign) and a 12th level Tough/Fast/Warchief in gamma world(a ~2 year campaign). I was a DM for about 3-5 years with the group and everyone had topped out at 9-11th level when life intruded and I was unable to keep it going.

[Phaederkiel]

well, I just witnessed that we got from 1 to 8 in about 3 month (albeit with some really BIG sessions).

about the spell lists: you are right, conjuration is a little better than transmutation. But it is honestly not that big a difference. I mean, I love the transpositons and tied them deeply into my character. And I learned to love acid breath. And yet, first level spells always had half miscellaneous and half nerveskitter.

Second level had a lot of elemental darts (now that is a good blast, btw), but silence and mirror image and snake swiftness were real shiny too.

and third level conjuration gets beaten hands down by transmutation.
Shrink Item is one of the best spells period, haste is a beast in a party with anything able to fight, MSSwiftness see above and fly is simply needed.


Yes, corpse candle is very good. So are many of the other spells on your list.
My experience was that nothing ever survived a single casting of sudden maximized acid breath. So Conjuration is a very strong second.

It depends very much of the rest of the party. I was alone with an (admittedly more overpowered than me) druid. I needed to do damage on my own sometimes. And I love the teleporting flavour of jaunt and decided to make a mage who absolutely priorizes mobility and battle field layout.

In a melee group (without a summon druid who takes heaps of MSSwiftness), I would probably go transmuter.

[macdaddy]

If I was going to play a transmuter, I don't think I would do an ultimate magus. I don't think MetaMagic effects are as great on transmutation spells as on conjuration ones. There are just too many fortitude save single target spells for the debuffs and personal for the buffs. Spell focus and Greater SF are so much more important for that type of caster.

As a Gish, transmuter is the obvious choice. For a wizard type, I think the best choice is conjuration.

to quote:
=====================================
"This school is the epitome of versitility. Want save or lose targeting Ref? Want Save or lose targeting Will? Want save or lose targeting Fort? Want Debuffs? Want battlefield control? Want protective spells? Want transportation spells? Want to blast? It's all here - and more. Conjuration has gotten nothing but love in the splatbooks too - so the list grows and grows."

[Phaederkiel]

well, i do not want to decry conjuration any further.

It is the school you choose as well as the school I chose after all.
I just had the jaunt thrown in to sweeten the deal.

[Phaederkiel]

for everyone interested in the Ultimate Magus, there will be an interest on
versatile Spellcaster. Here are my two cents about that matter:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12857562&postcount=29

[macdaddy]

any DM that wasn't insane or the reincarnation of Monty Haul would rule A; which is why I didn't include it in my build. Not going to even to bother to ask the DM because if he did agree.... I'd feel like a weenie.

[Phaederkiel]

well, my UM has it and uses c).
Admittedly, we wanted to see how hard a campaing can by a pure-caster-party.
So, while its cheese without a doubt, it is at least cheese the DM knows of and the only other Party member is arguably more powerful than me.

What is really interesting is that I have rarely ever had use for it. In 8 levels of play, I combined slots perhaps three times max. And we (as players) do certainly not believe in 15 minute days. So the feat is highly overrated anyway.

Not that it is bad, but not as needed as some people say (especially if they use d) combined with e) and never comment on rebuttals made against them...)