Fun Character Build (that isn't too bad)?

[paurpg]

I'm looking for a character build that would be fun and original, for a game that might go up to level 10. I was thinking about monster templates but I have been told that they are all really bad and there is little you can do about it. The two limitations would be only core books, complete books, spell compendium, libris mortis, unearthed arcane and expanded psionics, and that the character be playable with fairly high optimized other characters. If I can't come up with anything more original I'm going for a cleric/initiate of mystra. But I like tricky/control characters and would like to find a bui:smalltongue:ld more different and original. Any ideas? Thanks.

[Soup]

Tricky and controlling sounds like a Beguiler/Mindbender!

T3 Illusion/charm spellcasting on a rogue chassis. Mindbender gives unlimited telepathy, for all kinds of silly shenanigans!

[kestrel404]

OK, so your idea of fun is a tricky/control type character. That normally implies spellcaster, but I tend to think that for out-of-combat situations skillmonkeys do very well in this role as well.

Beguiler is an excellent pairing of in-and-out of combat controll. It's a tier 3 class, so readily playable in both high and low optimisation games
If you're looking for a higher level of power, then perhaps Beguiler 1/Psion 3/Cerebramancer (any flavor of psion will do nicely for this, but you'll get a fair amount of overlap from Telepath so perhaps avoid that unless you really want to specialize). Just take Precocious Apprentice (complete arcane) at 1st level to qualify for Cerebramancer early.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Bloodgruve]

My beguiler is very fun but that is from PHB2, is that considered core? I went Beguiler>Spellthief1>Daggerspell Mage>Unseen Seer, interesting so far.

Another fun one is Psion>Thrallherd. Mind bendy fun and you can herd in a tripster or really anything you want as your thrall. Get Control Body somehow and have your psi crystal maintain concentration to give yourself Int based melee abilities. Push Int and Charisma for social control.

Factotum is also very fun but that is from Dungeonscape which is not showing on your list of books.

GL
Blood~

[paurpg]

I'm looking at the beguiler class and I like it, but there's a couple of things that I will probably run into, the spells don't work on undead or warforged, and if someone can cast true seeing it sort of leaves the beguiler pretty powerless. I'm thinking of having use magic device skill to be able to use wands to deal dmg and basically be able to do something against undead or true seeing?

[Bloodgruve]

Is the Eberron setting available?

Are you limited to feats available only in your book list?

If you like Beguiler might I suggest taking 1 lvl of Wizard and the Versatile Sellcaster feat (from Races of the Dragon). This will allow you to have a spellbook and record spells into it. With a DC 29 spellcraft check you can record 9th level wizard spells even at level 1. You 'know' a spell in your spell book and can then use Versatile Spellcaster to 'spontaneously' cast any spell you know... You also get a familiar. Take Item Familiar feat (Unearthed Arcana IIRC) to help bump up your spellcraft.

GL
Blood~

[kestrel404]

Despite the description of the class, there are a fairly large number of beguiler spells that are quite effective against undead and those prepared to deal with illusion. Just from 1st level you've got:
expeditious retreat, obscuring mist and silent image
I can think of several ways of using those spells, singly or in combination, to defeat any undead you could expect to come up against before 5th level (incorporeal undead may require more direct means to defeat, but you get options for that at higher level).
As for dealing with true seeing, don't use illusions against people with true seeing - you've got Arcane Sight as a 3rd level spell, use it!

Of course, Use Magic Device is also a class skill for you, so of course you're going to want max ranks in it - and you're an int-based high-skill class, so you've got the skill points to spend on it!

Just remember that you're a spontaneous caster with FULL ACCESS to your ENTIRE spell list at ALL TIMES - as soon as you can cast 2nd level spells, you can cast ANY 2nd level spell on your list! This also means that any feat (Arcane Disciple!!!), prestige class (*cough*RainbowServant*cough*) or whatever else you can get that will add spell to your spell list is pure gold.

You may not get a lot of broken spells from transmutation or conjuration, but you should NEVER run out of tricks.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Just remember that you're a spontaneous caster with FULL ACCESS to your ENTIRE spell list at ALL TIMES - as soon as you can cast 2nd level spells, you can cast ANY 2nd level spell on your list! This also means that any feat (Arcane Disciple!!!), prestige class (*cough*RainbowServant*cough*) or whatever else you can get that will add spell to your spell list is pure gold.

You may not get a lot of broken spells from transmutation or conjuration, but you should NEVER run out of tricks.

For this, I prefer Sandshaper. Not nearly as many spells added, but you're FAR less likely to get the book thrown at you.

[Gavinfoxx]

I think someone has described the various ways that certain types of illusions not only work on constructs and undead, but that these creatures often have absolutely no way of defending against them... was there a post that described that?

[Hunter Noventa]

I think someone has described the various ways that certain types of illusions not only work on constructs and undead, but that these creatures often have absolutely no way of defending against them... was there a post that described that?

I've usually seen it done as that they're immune to mind-affecting illusions and such, but have no defense against others.

Basically, a mindless undead of construct has no way to determine if that Silent Image is real or not, because it cannot think. However this depends on your DM adjudicates their perception. If undead can 'see' only living vs. non-living in a vague way, illusions won't work. If the Golem has tremorsense, the illusion won't work, that sort of thing.

[paurpg]

I'm thinking about beguiler and have got ideas from the handbook online. Vow of non-violence, spell focus, song of the dead... any suggestions for a PrC that doesn't require losing spell levels and is worth it? Maybe I'll go straight beguiler if not.

[Bloodgruve]

Shadowcraft Mage and Mindbender 1 for Mindsight feat.

For feats look at Shadow Weave Magic, Spell Focus's, Obtain Familiar, Item Familiar, Mindsight, X Bloodline (Drag Mag) and Arcane Disciple (wisdom dependent).

Boost your spell DC's and add to your spell list. I don't have Mindsight but after the last couple games I really wish I did :)

My current Beguiler is going Daggerspell Mage but my next one will add Mindbender, Shadowcraft Mage and Archivist for fun with Versatile Spellcaster.

GL
Blood~

[paurpg]

shadow weave is too shadowy for my character concept: a friendly playful, non-violent gnome. And I am sort of torn between either using a feat for arcane disciple or using a feat to boost my spell DC's....
Thanks for the tips though, I'll look into those classes.

[MrSinister]

Mind bender 1 as soon as you can take it is kind of a given for a Beguiler. It also does a little added bonus of delaying your first class ability that gives you a new spell known by a spell level.

Fun with a Beguiler if you can use the source book is the skill trick that lets you make slight of hand vs. spot to even be noticed casting a spell.

Also, just cast glibness a lot and never shut up. You never know when your B. S. will work.

[Randomguy]

Cloistered clerics are the best enchanters. Why? Domination domain, that's why. You can pick up illusions, too, with either the illusion domain (or the gnome domain, if you prefer). Alternatively, pick up the charm domain for charm person, so you could get into mindbender, or grab a bonus domain and get all three.

[gorfnab]

I'm currently playing a Beguiler Beguiler/ Mindbender soon to be Unseen Seer. It's really fun playing a Narnian style illusionist/ party face.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Another useful build, albeit not quite as powerful, is Warlock into Mindbender for Mindsight. There are several tricks they can employ which make for Fun Times:

1) At-will Charm Person. You want party face? Anything sentient enough to engage in diplomacy with is probably going to not be immune to this. At least not until late levels.

2) Mindsight. You are the Party Radar, except in the case of actually Mindless opponents.

3) You want tricky? How about HiPS from level 3? If you don't want to blow two invocations and a feat on the trick, just pick up at-will Invisibility, but you're going to have to wait until level 7 for that option, because level 6, you pick up Charm and head into Mindbender for 100' Telepathy.

4) You never run out of tricks. No, not even then. If your GM throws an endurance-grind at you, it won't run you out of spells per day, because you don't have any.

5) Take 10 on UMD means you can use all the pretty toys that the casters use, and can be used to build yourself a bag of tricks outside of your invocations.

[Particle_Man]

I was thinking about monster templates but I have been told that they are all really bad and there is little you can do about it.

Druids can become pretty monstrous. :)