Ghoul PC

[NotScaryBats]

A small background about me personally: I've always had 3.5 books but my friends never were interested. I love undead. We play 4.0 amongst ourselves but I hanker for some undead action, which 3.5 allegedly offers through Libris Mortis. I am interested in playing 3.5 in order to play an undead.

I joined a level 3 game here on gitp and at a request for low optimization, made a rogue 1 ghoul 2. She seems decent, w multi attack and imp paralyze and ability focus paralyze for a dc 18 or something paralyze attack.

My questions are pretty simple:
1) in a normal game (not low op) are any undead playable? The low hp, hd, dead levels, and 'death when your 3d12+0 hp run to 0 at level 6' seems to neuter any effectiveness any undead could otherwise have.

2) I have never heard of a Morhg before or since 3.5. Is there any lore or anything about it? Are you the worm thing possessing a corpse?? Are you the corpse with a weird tongue?

3) are there any ways to be lower LA than the undead classes in LM allow for? As in, is it possible to be like an undead chara yet with real class levels without slogging through lame monster class levels and getting way behind on fears and hd?

[Keld Denar]

Gravetouched Ghoul in LM is better than the bog stock ghoul presented in the character section. It's a +2 LA with no RHD. That means you get to enjoy more class levels. It's got some weaknesses, but if you play smart and play to your strengths, you should be fine.

A Morhg is generally fluffed as a grisly unrepentant and evil murderer who was executed for their heinous crimes, but was too wicked to stay dead. I wouldn't play one of those, they are like, ECL 18 by the time they finish all of their class levels.

Otherwise, check out the homebrew forums. They have a huge project where they take monsters and create level progressions for them. They at least get HD at each level, so you aren't quite so fragile.

[NotScaryBats]

Rats, here I was hoping I had misread those brutal monster class limitations.

You say grave touched ghoul is in LM? It's pretty much the only book with PC undead info, yes?

Secondary question: Pathfinder and E6 -- which are 3.5-but-not-quite-3.5 as I understand it -- do they have the same limits and whatnot for undead pcs?

[Flickerdart]

There is an optional rule in Unearthed Arcana called LA Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). With it, you would be able to gradually reduce the amount of Level Adjustment that you have.

There is also a tactic used by other level-adjusted races, whereby you get yourself level drained to "burn off" the racial hit dice, and then get a Greater Restoration to get that XP back and level up in a PC class. However, since you are undead and immune to level drain, this would not work on you.

The Necropolitan template offers many of the benefits of playing an undead character (such as the type and all its immunities) without paying any LA at all.

You could also take partial levels (which is explicitly allowed) in an Undead template class, to gain some of its abilities in exchange for some level adjustment. The templates for Vampire, Lich and Ghost can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp). Note that Savage Species template classes operate on different rules, so you can't just ditch them halfway through. Savage Species does however have options like the Wight template for turning any existing creature into a Wight without all of the costs of playing a Monster Manual Wight.

[Dusk Eclipse]

IIRC on E6 you don't use the normal rules for LA (which would suck considering the hard limit on 6 levels), I think you use a lower point buy so 32 LA 0, 28 LA +1, 25 LA +2 or something like that.

Pathfider... I have no idea how it work-

[onemorelurker]

3) are there any ways to be lower LA than the undead classes in LM allow for? As in, is it possible to be like an undead chara yet with real class levels without slogging through lame monster class levels and getting way behind on fears and hd?

If you don't care about having any particular abilities beyond the standard undead stuff, take a look at the Necropolitan template (also in LM). You lose a level when you take it, but it has no other LA--essentially, you start buying it off as soon as you take it.

Edit: Aw, peas! Swordsage'd!

[Keld Denar]

You could definitely do Gravetouched Ghoul in E6. You just use 25 point buy instead of 32. GTG gets enough stat boosts that it would offset that drawback quite a bit, and you could totally dump Con in your PB.

I'd go Rogue2/Hexblade4 in E6. Get the Dark Companion instead of a familiar. Between that, Hex, Ability Focus(ParalizingTouch), and Improved Paralysis, along with a decent Cha, your Paralysis DC will be in the high 20s. Not bad, IMO.

[nyarlathotep]

It seems like I'm doing this all the time, but improved monster classes while technically homebrew are generally much better than actual LA rules in terms of balance and playability. Here is the ghoul (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=698.0).