Sheath of Weapon Conjuration HELP!

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'm currently playing a beguiler. I love the class because of the spells, but they are also the biggest weakens of the class, because you can't do much against undead, constructs, plants and outsiders.

Because I don't really want to scale my weapons, as I'm focusing on spellcasting and associated gear, I was wondering what it would take to have a magic item that cast a weapon creation spell for me.

What I'm thinking of is a sheath that casts a spell like summon weapon, flame dagger or blade of pain and fear as free action. That way it could cast the spell, you could draw the weapon and still make an attack.

My question is:

What would the logistics of an item like this be?

(ie. cost, best CL, limitations, should it use charges, require a skill check, etc.)

Thanks.

[Mystify]

flame blade is a 2nd level druid spell, lasts 1 min/levle, deals 1d8 fire damage +1/2 caster levels(max 10), melee touch attacks.

flame dagger is a 2nd level sorc/wiz spell which is nealry identical, except it is 1d4+caster level(max 10) damage instead.

The balance between the two is funny. flame blade starts out stronger, then flame dagger passes it, then in the end flame blade becomes stronger again.


blade of pain and fear is 1d6+1/2 level(max 10), but also attaches a will save or being frightened. This makes it nearly identical to flame blade, but with slightly less damage, its not fire, and it has the fear effect, which means its a level higher. It also lasts for a round/level instead of a minute/level.


However, since you want as low a caster level as possible for cost, flame blade works better. Either that or blade of pain and fear, but the save DCs from items are kinda low, so its up to you if the extra cost is worth it.

In any cast, their pricing is the same, as they are the same level spell(assuming you grab blade of pain and fear from the deathbound domain, which is questionable, but RAW legal.)

minimum caster level 3
command word = 1800x3x2 = 10,800 gp
if you want it cheaper, you can have 1 use per day at 2160gp, or a 3/day for 6480

Now, if you want it created as a swift so you can attack with it, you would have to quicken it. That would make it a 6th level spell, and require a caster level of 11.
18000x6x11 = 118,800 gp. Even a single use per day would be 23,760. This is an absurd price for the effect, so its a case where the DM would have to rule for it.

Honestly, the only thing making this weapon more appealing than a real one is the touch attack aspect. You don't get str bonuses, the weapon is not further enchantable. I'd say that 10k and you can attack with it immediately is reasonable.

On the other hand, its kinda like a brilliant energy weapon, which would be 32k, not counting hte mandatory +1 which would make it 50k. It doesn't fail again non-living matter, which is plus, but it doesn't get str to damage, which is a serious drawback.On the other hand, it is literally a 2nd level spell. 10k could get you a real +2 scimitar. A 1d6+2 damage, and the spell does 1d8+1. Same average damage. Its debatable whether flame blade actually has the 19-20 crit range; it says its wielded as a scimitar, it doesn't say it is one.

All in all, I don't think its really as valuable as a brilliant energy weapon, since it lacks the str mod, and can't be otherwise enhanced. 10k seems like a workable price to me.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

flame blade is a 2nd level druid spell, lasts 1 min/levle, deals 1d8 fire damage +1/2 caster levels(max 10), melee touch attacks.

flame dagger is a 2nd level sorc/wiz spell which is nealry identical, except it is 1d4+caster level(max 10) damage instead.

The balance between the two is funny. flame blade starts out stronger, then flame dagger passes it, then in the end flame blade becomes stronger again.


blade of pain and fear is 1d6+1/2 level(max 10), but also attaches a will save or being frightened. This makes it nearly identical to flame blade, but with slightly less damage, its not fire, and it has the fear effect, which means its a level higher. It also lasts for a round/level instead of a minute/level.


However, since you want as low a caster level as possible for cost, flame blade works better. Either that or blade of pain and fear, but the save DCs from items are kinda low, so its up to you if the extra cost is worth it.

In any cast, their pricing is the same, as they are the same level spell(assuming you grab blade of pain and fear from the deathbound domain, which is questionable, but RAW legal.)

minimum caster level 3
command word = 1800x3x2 = 10,800 gp
if you want it cheaper, you can have 1 use per day at 2160gp, or a 3/day for 6480

Now, if you want it created as a swift so you can attack with it, you would have to quicken it. That would make it a 6th level spell, and require a caster level of 11.
18000x6x11 = 118,800 gp. Even a single use per day would be 23,760. This is an absurd price for the effect, so its a case where the DM would have to rule for it.

Honestly, the only thing making this weapon more appealing than a real one is the touch attack aspect. You don't get str bonuses, the weapon is not further enchantable. I'd say that 10k and you can attack with it immediately is reasonable.

On the other hand, its kinda like a brilliant energy weapon, which would be 32k, not counting hte mandatory +1 which would make it 50k. It doesn't fail again non-living matter, which is plus, but it doesn't get str to damage, which is a serious drawback.On the other hand, it is literally a 2nd level spell. 10k could get you a real +2 scimitar. A 1d6+2 damage, and the spell does 1d8+1. Same average damage. Its debatable whether flame blade actually has the 19-20 crit range; it says its wielded as a scimitar, it doesn't say it is one.

All in all, I don't think its really as valuable as a brilliant energy weapon, since it lacks the str mod, and can't be otherwise enhanced. 10k seems like a workable price to me.

Thanks for your input. I'm having a similar conundrum. To make it more useful than just casting the spell or carrying a wand of the spell would require it to be cast either swift, free, or move to permit attacking the same round. To make this happen, however, takes a tremendous amount of money, beyond what I would really view as being a beneficial trade-off vs. a regularly enhanced weapon.

What can e done to lower the price, you think? Making only useable a few times per day, or having rely on charges are both good. What else can lower the cost of such an item?

[Mystify]

Thanks for your input. I'm having a similar conundrum. To make it more useful than just casting the spell or carrying a wand of the spell would require it to be cast either swift, free, or move to permit attacking the same round. To make this happen, however, takes a tremendous amount of money, beyond what I would really view as being a beneficial trade-off vs. a regularly enhanced weapon.

What can e done to lower the price, you think? Making only useable a few times per day, or having rely on charges are both good. What else can lower the cost of such an item?
I think this is a case where you have to diverge from the formulas. Like any custom item, only your DM can make a final ruling, but I wouldn't mind allowing you to attack with the 10k item on the round you create it.

[deuxhero]

You aren't as useless as you think. Mindless undead/constructs can't rationalize away obviously fake illusions and must make contact (which they won't do because they are too mindless to realize that wall that appeared in front of them is fake) to get a disbelieve check.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Because an item like this does not exist, as far as I'm aware, but there is a precedent for it in media (comics anime, etc.) I would like to create it. However, I'd also like to keep it as much by the book as possible so it's an easier sell to my DM.

You are right about the cost though. Even at the lowest by the book cost I could generate, which was in the mid 70k's, I can't see myself tossing out that much money.

If I can cast the spell myself, which, with some wizard spells I can, is there a cheaper way I could do this, without actually having to take the Quicken Spell feat of course.

Thanks.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

You aren't as useless as you think. Mindless undead/constructs can't rationalize away obviously fake illusions and must make contact (which they won't do because they are too mindless to realize that wall that appeared in front of them is fake) to get a disbelieve check.

The issue here is that even intelligent undead are immune to enchantments. This also doesn't hinder outsiders or plant creatures, which still spell my demise.

Right now the idea is to buff/debuff in these circumstances but, if I find myself low on or out of spells, I'd like to have a back up.

[Aerlock]

Because an item like this does not exist, as far as I'm aware, but there is a precedent for it in media (comics anime, etc.) I would like to create it. However, I'd also like to keep it as much by the book as possible so it's an easier sell to my DM.

You are right about the cost though. Even at the lowest by the book cost I could generate, which was in the mid 70k's, I can't see myself tossing out that much money.

If I can cast the spell myself, which, with some wizard spells I can, is there a cheaper way I could do this, without actually having to take the Quicken Spell feat of course.

Thanks.

Why not make it a Use-activated (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) item. A magical sword hilt that when drawn/swung activates the spell Flame Blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameBlade.htm) and lasts for 3 minutes would cost 24k by my calculations.

3(CL) * 2(SL) * 2,000 (Use-activated) * 2 (Duration of 1min/CL) = 24,000

- Aerlock

P.S. As a side note, wasn't there a post not long ago that had a collection of spells like Flame Blade? The closest I've been able to find is these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212686) posts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212736) here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234372).

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Why not make it a Use-activated (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) item. A magical sword hilt that when drawn/swung activates the spell Flame Blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameBlade.htm) and lasts for 3 minutes would cost 24k by my calculations.

3(CL) * 2(SL) * 2,000 (Use-activated) * 2 (Duration of 1min/CL) = 24,000

- Aerlock

P.S. As a side note, wasn't there a post not long ago that had a collection of spells like Flame Blade? The closest I've been able to find is these (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212686) posts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212736) here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234372).

I like it. As my character is form the desert and will be a Sand Shaper in the future, I'm leaning towards Sand Scimitar rather than Flame Blade, but the math is the same.

I kind of prefer the aesthetics of an empty sheath that casts the spell when you go to draw a weapon from the sheath. Does this take into effect that the spell is a standard action to cast?

[gorfnab]

Take a look at the Spectral Dagger (MIC, page 59), not exactly what you're looking for but something to think about.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The issue here is that even intelligent undead are immune to enchantments. This also doesn't hinder outsiders or plant creatures, which still spell my demise.

Right now the idea is to buff/debuff in these circumstances but, if I find myself low on or out of spells, I'd like to have a back up.

You have Shadow Conjuration... what do you need anything else for? As far as running low/out of spells, that's what Rope Trick is for.

Enchantment isn't really all that good as battlefield control anyways, you're best off sticking to illusions.

May I also point out that on your spell list resides gems like Haste, Slow (NOT mind-affecting but still a Will save), Glitterdust (another non-mind-affecting Save or Blind), Mirror Image and the Greater version thereof (best defense spells in the GAME), Solid Fog (No save, no SR, just stay put), and other very useful tools against those immune to mind-affecting.

[Aerlock]

I like it. As my character is form the desert and will be a Sand Shaper in the future, I'm leaning towards Sand Scimitar rather than Flame Blade, but the math is the same.

I kind of prefer the aesthetics of an empty sheath that casts the spell when you go to draw a weapon from the sheath.

Alright then fluff it as a sheath that when the act of drawing a weapon from it is performed activates the spell. You could also fluff it that it only works when empty and if a normal weapon is sheathed and drawn from the sheath the effect is not activated. That way if you want to disguise it or something you could just put a regular sword in it. Also just as an FYI the saving throw DC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#savingThrowsAgainstMagicItemPo wers) on the dehydrate effect is only gonna be 13 (10 + 2(spell level) + 1 (ability bonus of 12 int/wis/cha)) so don't count on that to kick in often.


Does this take into effect that the spell is a standard action to cast?

Use activated (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#useActivated) items do not have casting times, the act of using the item is all that's required to trigger the item. That's one of the reasons why they're so much more expensive than a command word or spell trigger item.

- Aerlock.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

UMD: Dorje (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/dorjes.htm) (wand) of Metaphysical Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metaphysicalWeapon.htm), problem solved.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Cool!

Thanks for all the help!