Why Necromancy?

[Hallavast]

IMHO, I can't understand why this school of magic is so popular for arcane casters...Why would I want to be a Necromancer over any other specialist wizard? In most cases the necromancer doesn't compare... Please, if ye have any knowledge to impart, then take it upon yerself to enlighten me...

[Bosh]

It's cool.

[Jestir256]

Bosh has it on the head: It's "cool." People associate some kind of romance with the necromancer. I try very hard to disabuse players in my campaigns of this notion; necromancers stink to high Bitopia.

EDIT: My bad, I left the other half unanswered. Take a look at the priest spell-table next to the wizards. Notice that, after domain spells, the priest gets more. Wizards may take specialization to offset this gap. There are other reasons; the best of them related to role-playing, but that's the most obvious mechanical one. Necromancy, however, is a pretty stupid school to specialize in. Most necro spells result in embarrassing attempts to overcome the fortitude saves of fighter-types.

[Townsfolk]

Maybe NPC's are just inherently goth...

[flamestrike]

What always bugged me about D&D necromancy is that it doesn't have enough raise-the-undead spells, and the ones that exist are at too high a spell level (they should be gotten much, much earlier). I think some kind of concentration requirement could balance it (i.e., if you don't want your undead minion(s) turning on you, you have to concentrate to maintain the spell. Otherwise, they go all Frankenstein's Monster on you). Maybe this fixation on necromancers' ability to summon comes from the Warhammer Fantasy side of my brain, but there it is.

Another alternative is to go the historical record. I think that necromancy in history is associated with attempts at diviniation (reading entrails and all that). Sounds familiar, but I don't remember where that's from. Also, it'd overlap too much with the divination school, of course, so that's no good. Hmm. Anyways, yeah, having a whole school of magic being based on spells with fortitude saves is just awful. Also, any good necromancer should have powerful undead minions. It's just how it should work ;D

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Heh, yeah, its the cool and goth factors mainly. I personally am trying to figure out how the undead, vampires in particular, and all things with death have become such a great thing.

As mentioned its been romanticized... usually by folks who've obviously never been near death. I run a small petting zoo equivalent, and folks, even a dead crab can put you off your lunch.

[PinkysBrain]

Flame strike, there are now summon undead spells for every level upto 5 ... and animate dead is hardly a high level spell.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Anyways, yeah, having a whole school of magic being based on spells with fortitude saves is just awful.
As opposed to a school of spells based off Will saves *cough*Enchantment!*cough* or Reflex saves *cough*Evocation!*cough*? ;)

Heck, at least Necromancy and Evocation are usually "<save> Partial." Enchantment is pretty much an all-or-nothing affair with every spell cast.

[Dhavaer]

Aren't the fear spells necromancy that uses will saves?

[I_Got_This_Name]

Yep, and, IIRC, they act like Enchantment (will negates).

[Hallavast]

As opposed to a school of spells based off Will saves *cough*Enchantment!*cough* or Reflex saves *cough*Evocation!*cough*? ;)

Heck, at least Necromancy and Evocation are usually "<save> Partial." Enchantment is pretty much an all-or-nothing affair with every spell cast.

Yeah, but what do the Necro spells actually do for you? Even if you fail the save the effects aren't that scary....

[starwoof]

Pssht. specialist necromancers. The Death Master of Orcus is a far better class. Undead minions as a class feature? Yes please. Animate dead as a 2nd level spell? Yes please.

The necromancer simply isnt that great. Its mostly a roleplaying thing, because there are no cool raise dead things.

And why is Summon Undead conjuration!?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Yeah, but what do the Necro spells actually do for you? Even if you fail the save the effects aren't that scary....
??? Well, uh... you see, my knowledge of Necromancy spells is pretty much limited to what I already said... :-/

I don't use Necromancy spells often enough (as a DM or Player) to get into a good debate about the class as a whole.

Though the classic spells that animate undead and the like tend to be the type that don't require saves. So there's a leg up on Enchantment and Evocation, which require saves for pretty much every single spell.

But, uh, yeah... I'm gonna have to do some research before I can really answer that question. :)

[PinkysBrain]

Where is that class from starwoof?

[ccelizic]

Well people often go necromancy when they want an uberangsty goth wiz who has touched things not meant for man to know.

Really though, it only partially delves into the hordes of undead horrors thing. It has some nasty [evil] spells but then agian, so does transmutation.

Necromancy is all about debuffing your target. You can really suck the strength out of someone, or inflict irrational fear or just drain a few levels off a target, and a lot of those spells as mentioned above have no save or are only partially resisted.

Like transmutation it's a nice utility school.

In fact it's also a popular school to ban, a lot of wizards I see ban necromancy because the player looks at it and thinks "EWWWW evil school go away!" They never consider that only a portion of it is dedicated to the animation of dead.

The others just view it as the taboo forbidden fruit. To quote the Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Tick#The_Evil_Midnight_Bomber_what_Bombs_at_Mi dnight) "So he says to me, 'You wanna be a baaaaad guy?' And I say yeah, baby! I wanna be bad! I SAYS, SURF'S UP SPACE PONIES! I'M MAKING GRAVY WITHOUT THE LUMPS! Aaaaaa-hahahahaha!"

[Sylvius]

Because it's a summoning spell?

Necromancy used to be a bit overpowered (especially levels 4-6). If I recall correctly, 2nd edition Contagion caused a communicable disease - you could wipe out whole villages with it. And wasn't Phantasmal Killer a Necromancy spell?

But, Necromancy still has at least one must-have spell every level, and that makes specialisation attractive.

1. Ray of Enfeeblement/Chill Touch
2. Spectral Hand (one of the greatest spells ever)
3. Vampiric Touch
4. Enervation
5. Magic Jar (okay, that one's debateable)
6. Circle of Death/Eyebite (the only sleep spell that works on Elves)
7. Finger of Death
8. Clone/Horrid Wilting
9. Energy Drain/Astral Projection/Wail of the Banshee/Soul Bind

I'm quite fond of Necromancers, myself.

[Dark Knight Renee]

I've used Necromancy for BBEGs more than anything else, though a player had a Necromancer (sickly goth type, drove the other PCs up the wall). And I've got a sorcerer with most of the necromancy spells he can get...

However, when I have non-goth wizards who actually specialize, Necromancy is usually a prohibited school, based on the fairly accurate assumption that they aren't missing much by loosing those spells.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

The question that you should be asking is this:

Why Not Necromancy?

1: some of the most powerful spells are necro
2: It's darn-tootin cool.
3: You have prestige classes like the True Necromancer (arcane and divine caster level +10, and special abilities!) Palemaster (Who needs an arm?), etc.
4. With feats and items, you can control almost 8 timesyour HD in HD of Undead. That's like having an undead Tarrasque as a bodyguard.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

All sorts of necromancer Prc'S exist to make them better i know (true necromancer, pale master, Yarienthsee {some wierd FR PrC]) Then there is the dread mecromancer base class from Heros of horror....

[Hallavast]

The question that you should be asking is this:

Why Not Necromancy?

1: some of the most powerful spells are necro
2: It's darn-tootin cool.
3: You have prestige classes like the True Necromancer (arcane and divine caster level +10, and special abilities!) Palemaster (Who needs an arm?), etc.
4. With feats and items, you can control almost 8 timesyour HD in HD of Undead. That's like having an undead Tarrasque as a bodyguard.

1.which spells are these?
2.What wizard isn't?
3.Every School of magic has a neat set of prestige classes to go with them...
4.With feats and Items, you can anihilate any minion of such a necromancer of your level anyway...

Your points are valid. I'm not saying the class is not without hope. I am simply asking what makes this class worth playing over any other specialist. In other words, does the school itself really go above and beyond most other ones?

[Gralamin]

meh necromancy good for one thing and one thing only, a result you can get at level 9, lichdom!

Lichs own....

but on its own, no necromancy isnt that good, neither is evocation (Evasion and Improved Evasion complety own it), That is why Magic items (wands + staffs own the world) are the key to problem.

huh high ref type? switch over to fortitude will saves.
Monk? Start making them roll any random save.
High Will? use fortitude or reflex!
high fort? use reflex or will!
guy who is unbeatable with magic? IRON GOLEM!

[stainboy]

I think D&D intended for the archetypical necromancer to be a cleric, not a wizard. Which is lame in my opinion.

House Rule #34,519: A wizard who chooses to specialize in the Necromancy school may learn necromancy spells from the cleric spell list.

[OzymandiasVolt]

House Rule #34,519: A wizard who chooses to specialize in the Necromancy school may learn necromancy spells from the cleric spell list.
Then someone who specializes in Evocation should have access to the Cleric's Evocation list to be fair.

Most characters who take necromacy (that is, specialize in it) do it for the 'cool' factor. This factor is entirely in their heads, and the heads of their little friends. What's worse, WotC caters to them. There are AT LEAST five Necromancy-focused PrCs, and they are largely redundant.

These same people usually want to play as some form of undead as well, most likely a vampire (bcuz there kewl 2 lol), possibly with the Spellstitched template. Oh, and their favorite weapon is the scythe. And their clothes are probably mostly black.

At least they're not playing as a Drizz't clone like they did in the last campaign, right?

(Sorry if that was a bit harsh. I'm feeling particularly blunt and truthful today, and the obsession with necromancy, demons, and 'being teh awsemz' that some people harbor is infuriating to me. It's so shallow and cliche and--never mind. I'll stop now.)

[Muffin_Man]

Instant kill spells.

A high level necromancer with spell focus, greater spell focus (maybe with a red wizard of thay prestige class) make spells like power word kill (and others if you have vile darkness, libris mortis and complete arcane) almost certain death.

[Dhavaer]

Instant kill spells.

A high level necromancer with spell focus, greater spell focus (maybe with a red wizard of thay prestige class) make spells like power word kill (and others if you have vile darkness, libris mortis and complete arcane) almost certain death.

You make a good point, but Power Word: Kill has no saving throw and isn't Necromancy. It's Conjuration for some reason.

[Sulecrist]

Lich > Vampire
Dignity > Angst
Law > Chaos

Just thought I'd throw that in there, with this explanation to bulk out my otherwise insubstantial post.

[Fhaolan]

This doesn't really affect arcane necromancers, but ever since 3.0 came out, I disagreed with the change that moved healing spells out of necromancy. I liked the idea that healing is the 'good' side of the coin, while undead-dealing is the 'evil' side.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Dhavaer]

This doesn't really affect arcane necromancers, but ever since 3.0 came out, I disagreed with the change that moved healing spells out of necromancy. I liked the idea that healing is the 'good' side of the coin, while undead-dealing is the 'evil' side.

Just my opinion, of course.

I agree with this too. As is, it makes no sense. They should both be the same school. Either Necromancy or Evocation, in my opinion.

[SilverElf4]

If you like playing arcane characters and have an anti-hero hook in mind, necromancers are the easiest way to go.

From a sociological standpoint, Americans at least, live in a society where death is a concept we try very hard to keep from entering our awareness. There's bound to be a backlash of people with curiosity, which is essentially what the necromancer hero is - someone with a curious obsession with death.

Regarding Summon Undead, I understood that to be a *poof* now there is undead in front of you, as opposed to Animate Undead where the corpses claw their way out of the ground and stay around for longer than a measely few turns. You can see where that might be less of a death magic and more of a summoning magic type of thing.

I agree though that healing magic should have been kept as necromancy. Conceptually I just think it fits better there.

[EvilDave]

Necromancy

Spells that manipulate, create, or destroy life or life force.

Yeah, they really didn't stick with that definition very well. Manipulate is there only in a manner detrimental to true life. They can destroy life or life forces and can create life forces (to an extent) in the manner of undead. There's room for improvement.

[carebear]

ok reason why necromancy owns? enervation, ray of enfeeblement, hide life.

those are the spells that make low lvl wizards own. reduce will save with enervation (and as sumone else said earlier, bestow curse from transmutation) reduce str. with ray of enfeeblement (level 1 spell, better than magic missile) and hide life (gain level plus a d20 or d10 dont remem to hp, for a few hours).

and for all people that say well evocation, or _______ (enter spell school here) is better, we werent say it wasnt. We were answering the question of why necromancy is a good school.

[Ugly_Panda]

Pro: You get a private army of skeletons to do your bidding.
Con: The skeletons can all be wiped out with a single fireball.

Con: You have to dig up the bodies yourself.
Pro: What else would you do with the bodies after a random encounter?

Pro: Necromacy has a lot of powerful spells.
Con: So does every other school of magic.

Con: You can't bring the undead with you anywhere.
Pro: Who wouldn't mind rotting flesh?
Con: The gatekeeper, the bartenders, clerics.

Pro: It's just plain cool.
Con: Goth freak.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Pro: You get a private army of skeletons to do your bidding.
Con: The skeletons can all be wiped out with a single fireball.

Con: You have to dig up the bodies yourself.
Pro: What else would you do with the bodies after a random encounter?

Pro: Necromacy has a lot of powerful spells.
Con: So does every other school of magic.

Con: You can't bring the undead with you anywhere.
Pro: Who wouldn't mind rotting flesh?
Con: The gatekeeper, the bartenders, clerics.

Pro: It's just plain cool.
Con: Goth freak.

I'd kinda like to see a more in depth list like this for every school of magic. ;D

I'm gonna get started on it as soon as I can. :)

[Larrin]

Necromancy is so big because the undead are so big, not just in fantasy, but everywhere. how many Vampire and zombie and ghost based movies/tv shows have been made in just the last five years. hundreds. how many have been made about dragons.....2? howmany have had wizards NOT doing undead stuff.....3 (LOTR...well the last one had ghosts....). What about Halloween, one of the most popular Hollidays is about five inches away from being about "necromancy" (ghosts, skeletons, vampires, these are the most common decorations....) Modern culture is Hyped on the Undead, even if they don't call them that, or know what necromancy means and would call us Geeks for even using such a word, but its true. Modern culture LOVES necromancy.

Thus when we "Geeks" (their words not mine...:p) sit down to play, Undead/necromancers/etc come up in very predicable large amounts. Thats why necromancers are cool. Hollywood loves them, children love them, gamers love them.

[stainboy]

Then someone who specializes in Evocation should have access to the Cleric's Evocation list to be fair.


Hmm, on a second look, necromancer-wizards really don't need need access to cleric spells, at least not in 3.5. Arcane necromancers got shafted in 3.0 - Animate Dead was a 5th-level spell, and they couldn't cast Create Undead at all as I recall. Just checked, and apparently that got fixed in 3.5.

[Munchy]

I always play a generalist. If your INT score is high enough you will already get extra spells per day and you can always keep a few scrolls for extra firepower. The loss of flexibility and power you give up by specializing is simply not worth it IMHO. Not just for necromances, but for all schools.

That said, there are multiple spells in necromancy that are very, very usefull. Not all necromancy spells allow a save and those are the ones that are truely interesting to me. SR can usually be overcome with a few feats and Assay SR. The following are my favorite Necromancy spells:

Lvl 1 - Ray of enfeeblement. (No save, SR). Help your tanks out by de-buffing the nastiest oponents.

Lvl 2 - Blindness. (Fort save, SR) Usefull at lower levels. Mess up enemy spellcaster so they can't target you. Can alsp help your melee fighters out.

Lvl 3 - Vampiric touch. Use this BEFORE the fight with BBEG to up your HP for an hour. At higher levels your low level spells loose utility, because you have far better stuff. However you can always combine Summon II and vampiric touch for a nice HP snack.

Lvl 4 - Enervation. (No save, SR). Very unpleasant especially a few levels up when you can empower or maximize it. Zapping a BBEG or a monster 4 levels is going to mess it up.

Lvl 7 - Avasculate and Finger of Death. Avasculate if some the Spell compendium, but is too cool not to mention. Reduce the enemy to 1/2 the current HP (no save, SR). This is absolutely vicious and makes handling many tough oponents much easier. Your 500HP monstrosity can be reduced to 125HP with two castings. Also, make a Fort save or be stunned for 1 round.

Lvl8 - Avascular mass. A cooler version of avasculate. In addition to the previoujs the target and those close to it are entangled in a bloody mess and you now have cover.

Lvl9 - Energy drain. 2d4 negative levels (No save, SR). Brings monsters and BBEG down to size quite fast.

The previous spells are just to damned usefull to pass up. While I might not specialize in necromancy, you can bet that I will pick up some necromantic spells along the way...

[ImperiousLeader]

You make a good point, but Power Word: Kill has no saving throw and isn't Necromancy. It's Conjuration for some reason.

Power Word spells are from the Enchantment (Compulsion) school.

Enervation is the crown jewel of Necromancy school. Magic Jar is also an impressive spell. I'm personally not a big fan of Necromancy, but I respect the school. Conjuration and Transmutation are my favourites.

[PinkysBrain]

Drain a mental stat on a good monster to 0 and magic jar him each day and you can cheeze it up just as good as the druid.

[Tynan]

I've always preferred Sorcerer's over Wizard, and the biggest reason was having so many castings on hand, and not having to prepare them ahead of time. Well, I like wizards now. Especially Necromancy. The other schools have some pretty awesome spells too (geas, anyone?) but I love instant death spells, and level draining. Gives anybody in my group who's DMing siezures to see those horrible things happen to their minions and BBEG's.

Finger of Death is probably my favorite. I killed my friends BBEG in the first round of combat with that spell. My fellow companions loved me for awhile, and thought myself more powerful (but those natural 1's are murder. Litterally.) then the BBEG.

So yeah, Necromancy has coolness factor, and slaying spells. That's fun.

Edit: Spell check

[starwoof]

Where is that class from starwoof?

The Dragon Compendium. Its a pretty awesome book.

Also, while digging through my spell compendium, I found some nifty necromancy spells. Theres one called avasculate I beleive...it reduces your target to half Hp and stuns them...by forcing its blood vessels out of their body throught heirm skin and binding them to the walls. Neat. Plus, mass contagion.

Then theres Undead Plague. It summons a horde of undead.

So Necromancers suck...unless youn use the spell compendium.

EDIT: Gah, munchy got to it before me.

[Hallavast]

Ok...hmm...

So why would you sacrifice spells from 2 other schools for Necromancy? So far what you have claimed is that necromancy boasts spells that either allow no saves, slay instantly, or summon minions....oh and it's "cool" (yer nuts).

so, hmm... conjuration summons minions, every school has spells that allow no save... and transmutation has spells that are "save or die"

the point is that these schools are much more diverse and offer so much more than necromancy. In my opinion the school is underpowered and/or only appeals to a select group of players. Why is this group so predominant? Why are there so many defenders of this school?

[anime713]

I believe your original question was "Why necro over other specializations," not "why specialize in the first place." But seriously, I think it just depends on what type of wizard you want to be. If you don't care about flavor, be a generalist, but I think half the fun comes from saying you're not a wizard: you're a necromancer.

[Hallavast]

I believe your original question was "Why necro over other specializations," not "why specialize in the first place." But seriously, I think it just depends on what type of wizard you want to be. If you don't care about flavor, be a generalist, but I think half the fun comes from saying you're not a wizard: you're a necromancer.

I'm still asking "why necro over other specs?" I don't recall ever asking "why specialize at all"...

Also, I know it depends on the type of wizard you want to be, but why is this type of wizard sought after despite admitting that it is underpowered and can be replicated by other schools. And you still get the fun out of saying you're not a wizard. you're an invoker or diviner or abjurer, or what-have-you.

To me, specialization makes the wizard worth-while. Even the necromancer mentality can be enjoyed without taking the "necromancer" class... its the whole samurai that is really a palladin all over again, man.

[Tynan]

Also... Shooting for powergaming, roleplaying or both? Powergaming wise, it might not be too smart to specialize in any school, especially Necromancy. Roleplaying. Well, that is always fun.

"Ah good, a wizard to join our ranks!"

"Uh, no. I'm a Necromancer actually."

"...If I die, don't let him near my corpse."

[Altair_the_Vexed]

In my standard campaign, being a Necromancer will get you hunted down by the most powerful clerics in the land and their army of purity, and burned at the stake. It's a Bad Guy spec school only, really.

However, then I ran my evil campaign along side the regular one... Between me and one of my players, we thrashed out some new Necromantic spells - as they were for boxed set D&D, I'll just top line them here.

Animate Light / Moderate / Serious Wounds
xd6+x HP restored - keep track of HP so recovered. Animated wound continues to decay. When animated HP exceeds regular HP, make a Will save (DC 10+animated HP total) or character gains the descriptor "Undead" (and all that entails). No alignment change.

2nd level. Animate dead animals
Animates 1 animal per level of no more than 1/4 HD each.

That made the Necromancer more playable during the lower levels of the game.

In general though, I think it's just the "I'm rather nasty" coolness factor that people like. Our evil game was rather pantomime - lots of over-the-top acting and villainous deeds - sharing babies with vampires for supper, corrupting virtuous priests for a laugh... Great fun, but ultimately a bit shallow.

[carebear]

ok perhaps i didnt read the question right. The only reason one would specialize is for roleplaying issues, (or tired of roleplaying a generalist wiz.)

If they roleplay over power char. then necromancy specialization is a good choice. They want to roleplay undead and magic.

If they go for powerchar and roleplay that, necromancy specialization should not be a chosen path, as it takes away from spell variety for an extra spell or two a day. all spell schools are needed for the generalist wizard.

so the reason ppl choose necro specialization is due to roleplaying reasons.

[Dhavaer]

Specialisation is better for both roll and roleplay using the Unearthed Arcana variants. You get actual abilities. My Illusionist doesn't get bonus feats or spells, but she gets extra spells known (and mastered) and has a lot of stealth related abilities. (+16 Hide mod at level 6).
Necros can get a skeleton instead of a familiar, limited undead traits instead of feats and tougher animated undead instead of bonus spells.

Link is here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#necromancerVariants

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Specialisation is better for both roll and roleplay using the Unearthed Arcana variants. You get actual abilities.

I certainly recommend the variants, too!

Last couple a specialist NPCs I created for my campaign each used at least two of the variant options for their specialty. One of them also used some specialist-specific feats from Dragon magazine. They've got a whole lot more flavor now.

Gee, an enchanter that can actually hold her own in a social situation without resorting to magic. Imagine that! ;D

[Maryring]

Well, with the exeption of Divination specialisation. It seemed very useless to me compared to the other specializations. I mean, you get a slight bonus to two spells, plus a +1 on DC which is only soso.

[kyrin]

3.Every School of magic has a neat set of prestige classes to go with them...



What's the cool Prestige Class for conjurors? I've been looking -- what have I been missing?

On-topic, Necros do seem to get the really cool PrCs -- except for the Master of the Unseen Hand. Throwing people out of their boots and up in the air is always cool. ;D

You play a necromancer for the same reason you play *any* specialist -- because you think it's cool. Doing it for any other reason is a bit odd.

JIM
aka kyrin

[Toliudar]

IIRC, specialist school for conjurors is the Alienist. Never played one, but always liked the concept behind it.

[Sylvius]

While it may well be true that a single Generalist will be more valuable to a party (through its flexibility) than a specialist...

Two specialists (of different schools) will always be more useful to a party that two Generalists. As long as their prohibited schools don't overlap, they're superior.

And a party with only one wizard doesn't have enough wizards in it.

[Hallavast]

Well, with the exeption of Divination specialisation. It seemed very useless to me compared to the other specializations. I mean, you get a slight bonus to two spells, plus a +1 on DC which is only soso.

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say... can you rephrase that one, please?

Oh, thanx

[Sacrath]

He's saying that the Diviner Variant "Enhanced Awareness" which gives bonuses to two spells and +1 DC to all divination spells is not worth giving up your familiar for.

[Maryring]

Actally, that was only an example. None of the variants give you something equally worth for what you give up when compared to the others me think.

[Sacrath]

I have to say the Necromancer's Augment Undead ability is just vicious. As is the Transmuter's Transmutable Memory. 4 extra lvl 9 slots? Yes, please!

[Munchy]

While it may well be true that a single Generalist will be more valuable to a party (through its flexibility) than a specialist...

Two specialists (of different schools) will always be more useful to a party that two Generalists. As long as their prohibited schools don't overlap, they're superior.

I prefer avoiding builds that require the presence of another spellcaster with certain characteristics to overcome deficiencies. If your DM kills off PCs, NPCs your two caster strategy could backfire if the complementary mage is killed. Being able to operate alone is priceless IMHO.



And a party with only one wizard doesn't have enough wizards in it.

Depends on the campaign. Yes, two casters of some sort is very usefull. I like having one cleric and one wizard (Or psion).

[Dhavaer]

I adore the Shadow Shaper ability, as already noted. Having all Illusion spells mastered is powerful as well.

[Sylvius]

Yes, two casters of some sort is very usefull. I like having one cleric and one wizard (Or psion).

I played in a 2nd edition campaign where the 4 member party was three specialists (Necro, Abjurer, Diviner) and a Priest of Hextor.

There was really no stopping us.

[Dante & Vergil]

I know it has been awhile since anyone here has put anything up and I'll probably get punched in the face for it, but there is a spell from Frostburn, or the book that specializes in Winter/Cold based campaigns, that drains 3d6 dexterity. I can't remember much else about it other than it's been nicknamed "the dragon killer."

[Nerd-o-rama]

I know it has been awhile since anyone here has put anything up and I'll probably get punched in the face for it, but there is a spell from Frostburn, or the book that specializes in Winter/Cold based campaigns, that drains 3d6 dexterity. I can't remember much else about it other than it's been nicknamed "the dragon killer."
The irony!

[Doresain]

i dont know why everyone keeps calling the necromancers "goths"...i play necromancers to sate my desire of being an evil overlord...dozens of easily made, easily controllable, and permanent minions? yes please

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I love the irony of this thread.

[SilverClawShift]

Why is necromancy so popular?

Please take this post with a grain of salt.

Evocation
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ca_gallery/85425.jpg

Transmutation
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ca_gallery/85464.jpg

Enchantment
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph2_gallery/97102.jpg

NECROMANCY
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/compmage_gallery/100496.jpg

You're the necromancer. The black mage. The Bad Ass Extraordinaire. You don't fear death, you ARE death, and you take no prisoners. Except you DO take prisoners, but you KILL them first.

"I'm insulted. After I turn your soul into dust, I'm going to make your skeleton kill your friends and family until I feel better. Or get bored. Whichever. Finger of Death."

That's why people like necromancy :smallbiggrin:

[Doresain]

"I'm insulted. After I turn your soul into dust, I'm going to make your skeleton kill your friends and family until I feel better. Or get bored. Whichever. Finger of Death."


well said, 1 beer get

[AmberVael]

The reason people like Necromancy so much is because people like the ability to bring the dead back to their feet, as is evidenced by the return of this thread.

[MaxMahem]

If you are simply talking about why specialize in the school, I can think its very easy to justify. Specialization grants you an extra spell per day at the cost of two banned schools. So is it worth it? The question is to fold:

Are there enough good necromancy spells that you would be willing to take one a level? I think the answer is almost certainly yes. There are defiantly good necromancy spells of every level. Some (like enervation) are arguably the best spells available at that level.

Does necromancy offer enough versatlity to compensate somewhat for sacrificing two spell schools? I think the answer to this is also almost certainly yes. Despite having the fewest spells/level in core, I believe necromancy is probably the most versatile school. It has spells that deal direct damage like evocation, buff like abjuration, call for save-or-die like transmutation, summon forth creatures like conjuration, and induce fear effects like illusion. Necromancy can do all of what the other classes can do at least somewhat. I would probably give up evocation and conjuration, but really any of the classes are valid choices for necromancers. Necromancies versatility allows you to compensate.

---

If we are talking more generally, then as other have said necromancy is very flavor full. One of my favorite alternate core-classes is the dread necromancer. A decent mostly necromancy spell list plus the stats to stand up in combat somewhat. A nice combination.

[shadow_archmagi]

So.. has anyone ever made a really lighthearted and kind necromancer? One who was nice, liked puppies, and helped orphans? One who simply found he had a talent for spells of death and destruction, and went with it? Who has a one of those little homemade "Wurld's bess dad" mugs?


I will have to play this character the next time I do a magic user.

[Doresain]

So.. has anyone ever made a really lighthearted and kind necromancer? One who was nice, liked puppies, and helped orphans? One who simply found he had a talent for spells of death and destruction, and went with it? Who has a one of those little homemade "Wurld's bess dad" mugs?


I will have to play this character the next time I do a magic user.

ya know, when you deal with evil spells on almost a regular basis, its a little bit hard to be a kind hearted type of guy...and most necromancers do like puppies to begin with...served with farva beans and a nice chianti

[shadow_archmagi]

Well thats the thing, if you had a character who simply wasn't raised to view corpses as anything but a pile of meat and bones, with a strong belief that once you die your soul is elsewhere the corpse isn't HUMAN anymore...

Necromancy wouldn't be any more evil than, say, Animate Table.

If you can remove all of an opponent's strength, you don't even have to kill them... I'm seeing a pacifist concept emerging...

[horseboy]

So.. has anyone ever made a really lighthearted and kind necromancer? One who was nice, liked puppies, and helped orphans? One who simply found he had a talent for spells of death and destruction, and went with it? Who has a one of those little homemade "Wurld's bess dad" mugs?


I will have to play this character the next time I do a magic user.

Not in D&D, but yeah. My nethermancer is from a culture that valued bravery and bravado. Kinda "I laugh at danger, then go home and spank Death to sleep," kinda personality. Who wanted to some day be a good dad. T'skrang are weird.

Well thats the thing, if you had a character who simply wasn't raised to view corpses as anything but a pile of meat and bones, with a strong belief that once you die your soul is elsewhere the corpse isn't HUMAN anymore...

Necromancy wouldn't be any more evil than, say, Animate Table.

If you can remove all of an opponent's strength, you don't even have to kill them... I'm seeing a pacifist concept emerging...

From what I've found, it looks like a great way to Batman without pissing off the rest of the party. Who cares that you evernation then ray of feeblement then ray of exaustioned the BBEG, the fighter got to decapitate him.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Lets not forget the ultimate defenses for your spellbook. Symbol of whatever. Set a symbol of pain on the cover, set to trigger when the book is opened by anyone but you. If they still try to read the first page, symbol of insanity. Quick, easy, and better than Alarm to protect your stuff.

[sombrastewart]

So.. has anyone ever made a really lighthearted and kind necromancer? One who was nice, liked puppies, and helped orphans? One who simply found he had a talent for spells of death and destruction, and went with it? Who has a one of those little homemade "Wurld's bess dad" mugs?


I will have to play this character the next time I do a magic user.

I haven't ever really done an all-out caster. I think I might do this.

[Dausuul]

Necromancers are viciously effective debuffers. Between enervation, ray of enfeeblement, fear, the various exhaustion/fatigue spells, finger of death, and wail of the banshee, they can really make an enemy's day hellish. It's a very strong school both power-wise and flavor-wise.

If you want lots of clever tricks, go for transmutation or conjuration. If you want to mess with people's heads, pick up enchantment. If you like a strong defense and the ability to screw over other casters, abjuration is your friend. If you want to be always prepared (and not have to give up two schools), take divination. But if you just want to stomp your enemies into the dirt, there is no better school than necromancy.

Ironically enough, one of the things that gives necromancers the most trouble is undead (at least, intelligent undead--for mindless undead, you just cast a second-level spell and they belong to you).

[BRC]

A character idea I had was for a necromancer who learned how after his village was attacked by abunch of bandits, the bandits were killed but not before killing or severally injuring many of the villagers. It was the middle of the harvest and so rather then allowing the crops to die and the village to starve the character figures out some basic necromacy and animates the corpses of the bandits to work the fields and defend the village (As most of the militia had been killed or injured) against further attack.

[TheOtherMC]

A character idea I had was for a necromancer who learned how after his village was attacked by abunch of bandits, the bandits were killed but not before killing or severally injuring many of the villagers. It was the middle of the harvest and so rather then allowing the crops to die and the village to starve the character figures out some basic necromacy and animates the corpses of the bandits to work the fields and defend the village (As most of the militia had been killed or injured) against further attack.

But what of the second harvest? THE BRAIN HARVEST!!!!


.....undead need food too.... :smallbiggrin:

[BRC]

But what of the second harvest? THE BRAIN HARVEST!!!!


.....undead need food too.... :smallbiggrin:
Except they dont

Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep. .

[Ganurath]

So, what, Ghouls aren't really undead then?

On topic, necromancers are popular because they're flavorful. Wizards seek either knowledge or power. There is no more elusive knowledge than knowledge of what comes after, and there is no greater power than power over death.

[MCerberus]

My only Necromancer is a LG guy that doesn't want to touch most spells with the evil descriptor. I like the character, and he doesn't outshine anyone but can still do decently in a support role weakening monsters and fearing mooks.

[Ralfarius]

So, what, Ghouls aren't really undead then?
I don't think they so much need food as they desire food. It's an unquenchable desire, but a ghoul will continue to exist, even if locked in a room in a dungeon with nothing to eat.

[Doresain]

all zombies require brains in order to continue on with their existence...learned that in necro 101

[Starbuck_II]

all zombies require brains in order to continue on with their existence...learned that in necro 101

You were taught by a zombie weren't you. As they have low Int (almost non existant), they teach false things.

You know all those zombie mobies where people get eaten by zombies? D&D zombies don't have a bite! Those zombies were ghouls: remember they turn others into them.

[deadseashoals]

Because thread necromancy.

That is all.

[Hzurr]

So.. has anyone ever made a really lighthearted and kind necromancer? One who was nice, liked puppies, and helped orphans? One who simply found he had a talent for spells of death and destruction, and went with it? Who has a one of those little homemade "Wurld's bess dad" mugs?

Kindof.

I had a CN gnome necromancer once. He simply decided one day, that the greatest irony in the world was to use the forces of undead against evil. So yeah, he would make zombies and skeletons, and use them to defeat evil. He didn't really prefer undead, or anything like that, he simply had an odd sense of humor. He got a big kick out of it, and some fun debates with good-aligned clerics.

An enjoyable character to play.

[Khanderas]

Well thats the thing, if you had a character who simply wasn't raised to view corpses as anything but a pile of meat and bones, with a strong belief that once you die your soul is elsewhere the corpse isn't HUMAN anymore...

Necromancy wouldn't be any more evil than, say, Animate Table.

If you can remove all of an opponent's strength, you don't even have to kill them... I'm seeing a pacifist concept emerging...
Shame on me, for I once read a fanfic, where a necromancer was a good guy who even asked permission from a dead Amazon warrior to reanimate her corpse so she could keep on fighting evil (somewhat). He got it permission and all was good in the end :D

Necromancer or not, what wizard would not mind one (1) undead servant for mundane things like heavy lifting and the like. Make it a skeleton since they dont smell. An extra pair of hands to handle volitile mixtures.

[Doresain]

You were taught by a zombie weren't you. As they have low Int (almost non existant), they teach false things.

You know all those zombie mobies where people get eaten by zombies? D&D zombies don't have a bite! Those zombies were ghouls: remember they turn others into them.

there is a zombie variant in libris mortis that gives them a bite attack...and seeing as how i didnt see a single person become paralyzed from claws or bites, i refuse to believe that they were "ghouls"...unless everyone in the movie was actually an elf in disguise :smallconfused:

[AKA_Bait]

Well, since this thread has made it 6 hours since it's rise from the grave without getting locked I guess I'll add my own little tidbit.

Back in 3.0 I used an NPC necromancer who wasn't evil. He served as the town healer and in exchange for his services when townspeople died of old age he got to use their corpses. Both the town and the necromancer were happy with the set up. Darn meddling PC's...

[Doresain]

i think the mods love the irony of this thread so much, they let it be

[Ponce]

Currently playing a drunken hedge wizard of voodoo cursery. He is, in fact, specialized in necromancy. He doesn't do any raising of the dead, but he is quite fun! Chaotic Good, worships Sharess. No regrets!

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/Pedjt/emilio.jpg

[Frosty]

Which Necromancy spell is one of the most powerful in the game? This: Shivering Touch aka The Dragonslayer. That's reason enough to like Necromancy.

[mostlyharmful]

What other PC choice lets you, Nay demands that you take down the uber-BBEG reanimate it as your dreaded minion and stand infrount of it laughing manically....

MWAH-HA-HA THE POWER THEY SAID I WAS MAD... NOW I'LL SHOW YOU ALLLLLL!!?!!*"!!:smallbiggrin: :smalltongue: :smallwink:

Plus you can play dress up with life size dolls and have a tea party:smalleek:

[Dante & Vergil]

Look here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=599129) for a guide on Necromancy as is.

Look here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562) for a supplement as Necromancy as it should be. This is a nice supplement I really love and plan on using a lot in the future. (My DM let me make a Boneblade Reaper. They are super awsome!)

The Reaper I mentioned above I made to get revenge on Nerull, for sending his Clerics to destroy his home and for slaughtering his family in front of him. (He was hiding when he saw the whole thing.) With such a loathing passion towards the God of Murder, he natrally worships Vecna.

I didn't mean to go of on a random tangent, but I wanted to show you that D&D has limitless possibilities on the crazy paradoxes that are available.

[Doresain]

...God of Murder...

Bhaal? hes dead already though :smallconfused:

[Sornjss Lichdom]

It's got some really awesome low level spells, that when used right will kill.

Most of them are touch spells but Spectral hand owns on that (also necromancy).

[Dante & Vergil]

Bhaal? hes dead already though :smallconfused:

I thought that 'God of Murder' was one of Nerull's names but I guess I was wrong.