"Starshine"

[NakedCelt]

Isn't it odd? We haven't seen many Northern human surnames. We don't yet know what Tarquin, Elan, and Nale's last name is, for instance.
The Azurites have Japanese surnames like Miyazaki and Kato, and they're a different culture. But we only know three Northern human surnames, and we know the significance of two of them.
Greenhilt -- we've known since forever that this refers to the family sword. Draketooth -- we now know (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html) that this refers to the family's black dragon ancestral connections. ...and Starshine.
The first two establish a pattern of surname generation quite different from our own culture's.
So what family secret lies behind the surname "Starshine"?
And what big plot point is concealed under our ignorance of Elan's family name?

[Cavenskull]

Funny, I was just thinking about all of that, too. Thinking about 'Starshine' in particular, I was wondering if it might refer to the conditions under which Haley's family tends ply their trade.

[RMS Oceanic]

It could be about Haley's "admission" way back in the early 300's to Elan about how she's "not entirely-", the thing even V doesn't know.

[Giggling Ghast]

So what family secret lies behind the surname "Starshine"?

Haley and her father are actually impersonator mimics from the Far Realm.

[Math_Mage]

One old WMG is Aasimar descent, but it wouldn't make sense coming through Ian's side of the family (where the name comes from). Probably just a reference to Ian's craft.

[Armitage]

The first two establish a pattern of surname generation quite different from our own culture's.
Actually, it's not that different.
Western/European surnames mostly fall in one of a few categories:
- (old) names for occupations: Smith, Miller etc.
- references to places: think of names ending in '-wood'
- names that refer to an actual of perceived quirk of a person: Draketooth would fall in this category, as it refers to dragon ancestry

I'm sure there are a few more categories, and there are of course a bunch of surnames that can not be labeled or where we don't know the origin.

[Palthera]

What makes you think that Draketooth is a Northern name? Each member of the Order of the Scribble took a Gate closest to their homeland. Since the Draketooths (Draketeeth?) are in the Western continent, wouldn't that imply that they are Western humans and thus have nothing to do with that trend at all...

[Bedinsis]

What makes you think that Draketooth is a Northern name? Each member of the Order of the Scribble took a Gate closest to their homeland. Since the Draketooths (Draketeeth?) are in the Western continent, wouldn't that imply that they are Western humans and thus have nothing to do with that trend at all...

The only surnames of Western Continent residents I could think of are Fahruzi Lakshii (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html), and probably Captain Amun-Zora (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html). Both of which bears no clear meaning in English, so I'd wager the Draketooths,which do have a clear meaning, go by non-Western Continent naming tradition. Though we have too few data points to draw a definite conclusion.

[Eldray]

She is an alien.

[Onyavar]

Starshine is a reference to "night". Thieves do their job at night. Biiig mystery to non-thieves, right?

Also, it's a positive name, which means that the family is mostly good. Moonshine or Newmoon would sound a bit lunatic - Shadowknife or Darkarrow would scream "evil".
Finally, taking the name apart, stars look like diamonds... which are Haleys best friends. And the shine means clearly that she is orderly. Like, polishing gold pieces and such.

If Haley turned out to be of outsider, alien, snarlic or other nonhuman origin... I would stop reading this comic, since there were no foreshadows. And no, "not entirely" doesn't count.

[ThePhantasm]

Clearly a male star shapeshifted and found a human woman, and then...

Nah, I think Onyavar is probably right.

[Roland Itiative]

Funny, I pondered about her surname's origins when talking to a friend in a different forum yesterday :smalltongue: But adding to what everyone said, it's important to note that Haley's surname has been around since the very start of the story, when OotS was a gag-a-day strip with no real plot. If her surname ends up having any special meaning, it would probably be something created after the fact, not something Rich thought of in advance.

[The Pilgrim]

Nobody has thought that Haley's name and surname are a play on Halley's Comet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley%27s_Comet)?

Explained for dummies:
"Starshine" -> a Star that Shines -> a Comet -> name the most commonly known Comet -> Halley's

[Palthera]

The only surnames of Western Continent residents I could think of are Fahruzi Lakshii (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html), and probably Captain Amun-Zora (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html). Both of which bears no clear meaning in English, so I'd wager the Draketooths,which do have a clear meaning, go by non-Western Continent naming tradition. Though we have too few data points to draw a definite conclusion.

So... not Judy Morningstar and Bob Bloodcamel who are in the same strip as Fahruzi Laksii? I suspect they may have different naming conventions in different parts of the Western Continent...

I think "Draketooth" fits in just fine with "Morningstar" and "Bloodcamel" and thus Girard is probably native to the Western Continent.

[Goosefarble]

I would be inclined to say that Draketooth is almost certainly not a northern name, given that all the Scribbles took the gate "closest to [their] homeland (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)", which would imply that Girard lived in the Western Continent. And he sure as sugar ain't an elf.

[LordRahl6]

Nobody has thought that Haley's name and surname are a play on Halley's Comet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley%27s_Comet)?

Explained for dummies:
"Starshine" -> a Star that Shines -> a Comet -> name the most commonly known Comet -> Halley's

I never thought of that, but it would make perfect sense. Too bad many of us won't see it again as it came through into the inner solar system last in the mid 80's.:smallfrown:

[Gift Jeraff]

I always thought it referred to shiny gold pieces, but what Onyavar said works.

[Morquard]

I would be inclined to say that Draketooth is almost certainly not a northern name, given that all the Scribbles took the gate "closest to [their] homeland (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)", which would imply that Girard lived in the Western Continent. And he sure as sugar ain't an elf.

Or noone lived in the western lands at all, and since Girard was the only one left without a gate, he got stuck with it.

[Nerd-o-rama]

The Western Continent is also a melting-pot of cultures as opposed to the Northern Lands, which seem to be heterogeneous in sapient races/species but relatively homogeneous in culture. Given its reputation, it's probable that a significant portion of the Western Continent's population are descended from Northern adventurers who went there to make their fortune, like Tarquin and possibly Draketooth. This explains the much more varied names and fantasy-counterpart-cultures compared to the North and the South. (The South, at least, did have that montage of other Asian cultures, but they seemed a lot more stable and separate than the mess that is the West).

And I agree, "Starshine" is probably a roundabout euphemism for "thief" that also happens to suit Haley's perky persona. Or more accurately, the author named her that because it suited her and it sounded good, and now we can back-justify it this way.

[Conuly]

Starshine is a reference to "night". Thieves do their job at night. Biiig mystery to non-thieves, right?

They do? Seems to me that if I were going to break into somebody's home and take their valuables, it'd be easier to do that in the day when they and all their neighbors are at work. And if I'm going to pick their pocket, again, it's easier to do that in the daytime when the streets are crowded with people.

[rbetieh]

Oh dear....does it have to mean anything? I mean if thats the case then think of poor Belkar "Me Father Was A TREE" Bitterleaf!

[Goosefarble]

Or noone lived in the western lands at all, and since Girard was the only one left without a gate, he got stuck with it.

Perhaps. I mean, he doesn't look particularly Western (swarthy), and as everyone knows, he's related to Haley.
Joke.

[Bulldog Psion]

"Starshine" -- an appropriate name for a thief, who does most of their work beneath the stars.

[Siosilvar]

Moonshine or Newmoon would sound a bit lunatic

Moonshine? Depends on your definition of "lunatic", I suppose. :smallwink:

[FujinAkari]

[QUOTE=NakedCelt;12823944]Isn't it odd? We haven't seen many Northern human surnames. We don't yet know what Tarquin, Elan, and Nale's last name is, for instance./QUOTE]

Pretty sure Tarquin IS his last name, we don't know his first. He is known as General Tarquin, after all, and we don't call people General Bob :P

[Themrys]

Oh dear....does it have to mean anything? I mean if thats the case then think of poor Belkar "Me Father Was A TREE" Bitterleaf!

Would have to have been a Bonsai tree. :smallbiggrin:

That would drive Durkon crazy. And it would explain that kiss...you know what they say about elves and trees? Maybe the attraction works the other way round, too. :smallwink:

Clearly, Belkar is some kind of part-tree. :smallbiggrin:


Regarding Haley...I don't think her last name means anything else than she's a thief, she's too beautiful for some less pretty name, and she loves diamonds.

[Nidhögg]

Actually, it's not that different.
Western/European surnames mostly fall in one of a few categories:
- (old) names for occupations: Smith, Miller etc.
- references to places: think of names ending in '-wood'
- names that refer to an actual of perceived quirk of a person: Draketooth would fall in this category, as it refers to dragon ancestry

I'm sure there are a few more categories, and there are of course a bunch of surnames that can not be labeled or where we don't know the origin.

Another category: In northern Europe names ending with "son" (or "sen", but it's the same root) are very common. Pretty sure that in my country (Sweden), they are the most common by far.


Pretty sure Tarquin IS his last name, we don't know his first. He is known as General Tarquin, after all, and we don't call people General Bob :P

In a real world country/society where you are acustomed to call people by titles and surnames, I guess you wouldn't say General Bob. If you live in a country/society where usage of the first name is the norm, that wouldn't be unheard of.
If the surname is more a "description" rather than actually used in every day conversation where Tarquin comes from, it might be very likely that you would say title+first name.

Remember, just because you're used to certain conventions in real life, doesn't mean that fiction has to follow those conventions. :)

[Goosefarble]

Remember, just because you're used to certain conventions in real life, doesn't mean that fiction has to follow those conventions. :)

I was gonna say "Like Vaarsuvius! Her name ends with -us, but she's female!" before remembering that that is very very up to debate.

But yeah, I've always figured that Tarquin was a first name. The reason I'd guess he's called General Tarquin is because Rich didn't want to give him a surname, as that'd make it obvious (to Elan at least) that he's his father before the big reveal.

[grassy]

"Bitterleaf" and "Thundershield" seem to follow the theme of a two-part last name as well, so perhaps you shouldn't exclude all other races. Dunno about any other surnames of Northern Continent non-humans, though.
As for the meanings of these two, "Thundershield" seems fairly obvious, being a cleric of Thor.
As for Bitterleaf, well, it's already been stated in this thread that Belkar is obviously descended from trees, so I don't have anything to add to that.

[Kish]

Oh dear....does it have to mean anything? I mean if thats the case then think of poor Belkar "Me Father Was A TREE" Bitterleaf!
Clearly, Durkon will learn Belkar's dark secret and slaughter him.

[Goosefarble]

Clearly, Durkon will learn Belkar's dark secret and slaughter him.

This is now my personal canon theory.

[rbetieh]

Clearly, Durkon will learn Belkar's dark secret and slaughter him.

And then, he will go after his brother Seamus!

[Elemental]

I'm just going to throw this theory out there as a possibility...
Perhaps the custom of last names has come to the humans of the Northern Lands only recently?
It would explain the last name Starshine. I mean, they couldn't exactly have taken on a name that relates directly to their profession, so they just chose something that sounds nice?
It was common during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries for people who had to adopt last names to choose a name that sounded nice, such as Morgenstern or Rosenberg.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, there doesn't seem to be a tradition of taking patronyms or matronyms among the humans.

As an aside... This spell check recognises patronymically, but not patronym?

[Dark Elf Bard]

they are aliens from the stars!

[rbetieh]

I'm just going to throw this theory out there as a possibility...
Perhaps the custom of last names has come to the humans of the Northern Lands only recently?
It would explain the last name Starshine. I mean, they couldn't exactly have taken on a name that relates directly to their profession, so they just chose something that sounds nice?
It was common during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries for people who had to adopt last names to choose a name that sounded nice, such as Morgenstern or Rosenberg.
And, correct me if I'm wrong, there doesn't seem to be a tradition of taking patronyms or matronyms among the humans.

As an aside... This spell check recognises patronymically, but not patronym?

In all seriousness. It's hard to make a determination on what Western tradition is at play with these names. And then there is the ol' names make the profession hat, like people named Dennis are more likely to be Dentists in Anglo-saxon cultures. Of course, that may explain Grubwigglers profession, but what about everyone else?

Starshine to me, was probably a name given more to reinforce the fact that she is the team action-chic. It sounds like a chick filled with win name.

[Onyavar]

... a name that sounded nice, such as Morgenstern or Rosenberg. ...

You DO realize that Morgenstern also means morningstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_%28weapon%29), right? Nice name indeed. Okay, granted, lots of people did have this name.
Still, you'll find more Tailors, Millers and Smiths who related their name to their profession.

[Wardog]

You DO realize that Morgenstern also means morningstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_%28weapon%29), right? Nice name indeed. Okay, granted, lots of people did have this name.
Still, you'll find more Tailors, Millers and Smiths who related their name to their profession.

"Morningstar (weapon)", or one of the other meanings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star)?

[NinjaStylerobot]

Shes an abomination beyond the stars.

[Michaeler]

Starlight is the rogue's best friend. They're used to seeing by it, guards are not.

[Elemental]

You DO realize that Morgenstern also means morningstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_%28weapon%29), right? Nice name indeed. Okay, granted, lots of people did have this name.
Still, you'll find more Tailors, Millers and Smiths who related their name to their profession.


"Morningstar (weapon)", or one of the other meanings?

You know... I completely forgot about the weapon when I put that in...

[Particle_Man]

Don't know about Haley, but Belkar must have something other than pure halfling in him. He has scent, which is not a halfling racial trait.

[Kish]

Considering the way Belkar's smelling ability has been presented, I will be amazed if it turns out to mean, "He's not a pure halfling," rather than, "Rich's halflings have Scent."

[Jay R]

Thieves do not take names that identify them as thieves.

(Although in OD&D, I had a hobbit thief with a perfectly hobbit-like name, properly researched in Tolkien, of "Robin Banks".)

[Euodiachloris]

(Although in OD&D, I had a hobbit thief with a perfectly hobbit-like name, properly researched in Tolkien, of "Robin Banks".)

Great minds think alike: my first ever character was called "Willow Marshbanks". Stoor, would you believe? :smallwink: