3 Logical conclusions (spoilers)

[BoBo2020]

Given the shock V received at the end of 842, I think we can safely assume he just lost control of his dominated Kobold.

How much do you want to bet that Girard is a statue right now based upon cryptic advice from a certain Oracle.

Xykon's half of the gate spell will shortly be in V's hands - just in time for the Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission to start spending their 44 minutes and 16 seconds.

[Dr. Gamera]

Given the shock V received at the end of 842, I think we can safely assume he just lost control of his dominated Kobold.


Losing control would not conform to Rules As Written (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm). Therefore, I certainly don't think that we can safely assume it.


[LIST]
How much do you want to bet that Girard is a statue right now based upon cryptic advice from a certain Oracle.


Can you cite the advice in particular that leads you to believe this?

[Zevox]

Given the shock V received at the end of 842, I think we can safely assume he just lost control of his dominated Kobold.
Nope. Dominate Person does not work that way. V does not need any sort of concentration to maintain it.


How much do you want to bet that Girard is a statue right now based upon cryptic advice from a certain Oracle.
Girard is that statue? Maybe. Based upon advice from the Oracle? Wouldn't bet on it. I doubt he'd leave the gate long enough to make the trip to another continent to speak with the Oracle, especially given how invested he is in hiding the existence of himself, his family, and the gate.



Xykon's half of the gate spell will shortly be in V's hands - just in time for the Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission to start spending their 44 minutes and 16 seconds.

Wouldn't bet on it, no. Without the divine half, that won't accomplish anything, and as Redcloak so recently reminded us, only he has that, in his mind.

Zevox

[Conuly]

Xykon's half of the gate spell will shortly be in V's hands - just in time for the Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission to start spending their 44 minutes and 16 seconds.

I doubt it. We have to get to Kraagor's gate first.

[Gift Jeraff]

The ritual takes a few weeks, according to Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html).

[Zevox]

The ritual takes a few weeks, according to Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html).
Ah. In that case, V can't be used for the ritual by the IFCC at all.

Zevox

[Fish]

Based on the advice of an Oracle? Totally.

Belkar just got transmuted into a statue out in the hall while nobody was looking and Girard is taking his place. Belkar draws his last breath ever and the faux Belkar kills Vaarsuvius...

Whaaaa? Oh, you mean Girard consulted an Oracle. Never mind. :)

[Goosefarble]

Also, I thought that Vaarsuvius would only be used by the IFCC when s/he was dead? That's what I figured, but I could be wrong.

[Whiffet]

Also, I thought that Vaarsuvius would only be used by the IFCC when s/he was dead? That's what I figured, but I could be wrong.

That's up for debate. The IFCC never said that, so it's widely assumed that V was wrong to assume that and it'll be while V is still alive. "If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a huge waste of time," is another support.

[ellindsey]

Also, I thought that Vaarsuvius would only be used by the IFCC when s/he was dead? That's what I figured, but I could be wrong.

A lot of people make that assumption. Vaarsuvius may have even assumed that. But the fiends never stated when they would be able call in their debt.

Furthermore, when V was fighting Xykon, one of the fiends said that 'if the elf dies now, this was all a waste of time'. That implies they need V to be alive at some point in the future as part of their grand plan. Presumably for when they intend to call in their debt, since if they intended to use V's soul post-death it wouldn't matter when V died.

[Hironomus]

Also, I thought that Vaarsuvius would only be used by the IFCC when s/he was dead? That's what I figured, but I could be wrong.

I always assumed the opposite but I am starting to feel like I'm in the minority. The whole "you wont know where, you wont know when" feeling of their deal seems to indicate that it will be while V lives. Coz otherwise V would know when it was going to happen. after death. Maybe not immediately after but what difference does it make?

[ThePhantasm]

These aren't really logical conclusions. For a conclusion to be logical it has to be deduced or based in some line of argument or some prior evidence in the strip. These are just speculative guesses at best, in some cases being entirely wrong (#1) and in other cases being baseless (#2 & #3), albeit maybe possible (though not, I think, very probable).

[Hironomus]

But! The shock of seeing that family tree WAS enough to make Varsuuvius fail her save to keep hold of the fourth secret soul which the IFCC bonded without mentioning, which was a quarter dragon, ranger/ beguiler known as Girard Draketooth because Girard is actually evil and wanted to kill his whole family and release the snarl and the IFCC is actually good and want to trick Girard into releasing the snarl because that would actually usher in an age of peace and prosperity and now the soul of Girard will possess the statue and take control of Yuk Yuk and attack the order and Haley is actually a half celestial AND related to the Draketooths but her celestial blood saved her from familicide and she will stay behind to be the new guardian of the gate. Its all logical really :smallsmile:.

(Apologies. I always wanted to do that)

[Kish]

I always assumed the opposite but I am starting to feel like I'm in the minority.
You aren't in the minority. People who agree with Vaarsuvius' assumption there are.

[Acanous]

Panel 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html)
That statue might be Girard. He's a n arcane caster. He has access to other casters. He's got something big to protect. They keep a Schedual.

It's entirely likely he casts Contact Other Plane with regularity and asks a set of pre-selected questions. One of which might be "Will anything pose a serious threat to the life of Girard Draketooth this week".
If that one came back "Yes", "Is it a magical threat?" would be a logical step, and once THAT came back "Yes" he'd have darn good reason to blow some scrolls of CoP determining how to survive it. "If I cast Flesh to Stone on myself, will I be restored to life in time to protect the Gate from the next threat to it?" might be the conclusion reached.

[ThePhantasm]

I always assumed the opposite but I am starting to feel like I'm in the minority. The whole "you wont know where, you wont know when" feeling of their deal seems to indicate that it will be while V lives.

I totally agree with you. I don't think it makes much sense to only have a V that is usable after death.

[Manga Shoggoth]

(Apologies. I always wanted to do that)

There is something cathatcic about posting an insane theory. Or there would be if I could spel it...

[kickassfrog]

Panel 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html)
That statue might be Girard. He's a n arcane caster. He has access to other casters. He's got something big to protect. They keep a Schedual.

It's entirely likely he casts Contact Other Plane with regularity and asks a set of pre-selected questions. One of which might be "Will anything pose a serious threat to the life of Girard Draketooth this week".
If that one came back "Yes", "Is it a magical threat?" would be a logical step, and once THAT came back "Yes" he'd have darn good reason to blow some scrolls of CoP determining how to survive it. "If I cast Flesh to Stone on myself, will I be restored to life in time to protect the Gate from the next threat to it?" might be the conclusion reached.


I like this theory, it's a pretty good explanation, and could even explain why Girard wasn't on the weeks rota

Also, while the IFCC never specifically state that V can still be alive when they take control of hir soul, it seems like doing that when V is dead would fail to accomplish anything. So, yeah, I think they take control of V at a time when it's most important to the plot.

[Dr.Epic]

Given the shock V received at the end of 842, I think we can safely assume he just lost control of his dominated Kobold.

A likely outcome


How much do you want to bet that Girard is a statue right now based upon cryptic advice from a certain Oracle.

Based on what evidence? Also, how is he going to return to flesh? I think dying would have been the better option.


Xykon's half of the gate spell will shortly be in V's hands - just in time for the Inter-Fiend Cooperation Commission to start spending their 44 minutes and 16 seconds.


Again, based on what evidence? I think Xykon wouldn't let that knowledge fall into the hands of his enemies who are so much lower level them himself.

[Absol197]

I like this theory, it's a pretty good explanation, and could even explain why Girard wasn't on the weeks rota

Also, while the IFCC never specifically state that V can still be alive when they take control of hir soul, it seems like doing that when V is dead would fail to accomplish anything. So, yeah, I think they take control of V at a time when it's most important to the plot.

As one of the people in the mentioned minority, I feel I must point out that the IFCC never says that they get to "contol" V's soul. In fact, what they say they can do with it is quite the opposite: "...your soul spends one hour with me, then one hour each with my two associates." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html)

The main argument for V being alive during the IFCC's time is that they never say it's after she dies; it's what they don't say, and what they dance around saying, that matters. But the "deal they outlined verbally," which is what V agreed to (even if V's actually part in that deal is zero) does not include control of V's soul, it's getting to hold on to it for a portion of time. And, as we've seen before in the OotS-Verse, a body with no soul is a dead body.

Sure, maybe they can take V's soul out before she dies normally, but the result should still be a dead body. At least, that's my argument. Feel free to poke holes, if you wish.

[Shale]

To be technical, the fiends said nothing about V's soul going anywhere. Only that it would be in the company of the IFCC. We're assuming that Vaarsuvius would be pulled into the nether realms, but they could just as easily come to him. Or her.

[arclight]

Based on what evidence? Also, how is he going to return to flesh? I think dying would have been the better option.


Contingency. I am sure that it still works if you are turned to stone. There is a chance that Papa Draketooth has researched a permanent or long duration contingency spell that would cast greater dispel magic or break enchantment.

[aldeayeah]

Contingency. I am sure that it still works if you are turned to stone. There is a chance that Papa Draketooth has researched a permanent or long duration contingency spell that would cast greater dispel magic or break enchantment.

It's not like he hasn't casted a long duration contingency spell before. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html)

[ThePhantasm]

The kobold is still dominated in #843.

[Edric O]

To be technical, the fiends said nothing about V's soul going anywhere. Only that it would be in the company of the IFCC. We're assuming that Vaarsuvius would be pulled into the nether realms, but they could just as easily come to him. Or her.
This is an excellent point. Remember that the IFCC fiends told Qarr that they can only act on the Material Plane when making a deal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html). The whole point of their plan might be to find a way around that limitation.

So, actually, instead of controlling V, the deal they made might allow the IFCC to manifest on the Material Plane in the fullness of their epic-level powers for a given amount of time. Which would be a lot better than controlling a non-epic wizard.

[Psyren]

So, actually, instead of controlling V, the deal they made might allow the IFCC to manifest on the Material Plane in the fullness of their epic-level powers for a given amount of time. Which would be a lot better than controlling a non-epic wizard.

Those may not be mutually exclusive - If the splices were a preview, they can use their powers through V without his own comparatively low level being a limitation on what they can do.

And since they would be in control, V's concentration would not matter.

[Forealms]

Can someone please explain how the Oracle factors into this? What is the (possible) connection between him and Girard?

[Zevox]

Can someone please explain how the Oracle factors into this? What is the (possible) connection between him and Girard?
There isn't any. The OP was engaging in baseless, wild speculation.

Zevox

[Forealms]

There isn't any. The OP was engaging in baseless, wild speculation.

Zevox

Is there an example of the cryptic advice that may or may not actually refer to Girard that the OP was referring to?

[Rorrik]

But! The shock of seeing that family tree WAS enough to make Varsuuvius fail her save to keep hold of the fourth secret soul which the IFCC bonded without mentioning, which was a quarter dragon, ranger/ beguiler known as Girard Draketooth because Girard is actually evil and wanted to kill his whole family and release the snarl and the IFCC is actually good and want to trick Girard into releasing the snarl because that would actually usher in an age of peace and prosperity and now the soul of Girard will possess the statue and take control of Yuk Yuk and attack the order and Haley is actually a half celestial AND related to the Draketooths but her celestial blood saved her from familicide and she will stay behind to be the new guardian of the gate. Its all logical really :smallsmile:.

(Apologies. I always wanted to do that)

I can't find the strips supporting this, but I seem to remember something...:smallwink:

[Zevox]

Is there an example of the cryptic advice that may or may not actually refer to Girard that the OP was referring to?
No. Again, that was baseless speculation on his part.

Zevox

[leakingpen]

Girard is that statue? Maybe. Based upon advice from the Oracle? Wouldn't bet on it. I doubt he'd leave the gate long enough to make the trip to another continent to speak with the Oracle, especially given how invested he is in hiding the existence of himself, his family, and the gate.





Yeah, but the oracle does already communicate with people outside the area himself.