A Question about O-Chul

[Kaurne]

After browsing the Order of the Stick TV Tropes page, I discovered a comment about O-Chul stating that he has a Con score in the mid twenties (which I interpret as being anywhere from 23-26) according to the Giant. I have played some D&D, but I'm not an expert, so please can someone tell me - how can you get a Con score that high?

Even if he started with a score of 18, I don't see how we could gain anywhere between 5 and 8 points in Con so easily. I guess magic items could do that, but somehow I don't think the Giant would count that, and O-Chul has never been said to possess any magic items, which would probably have been confiscated in his imprisonment anyway.

He seems to be a regular human, so I don't think he has a racial bonus - although I don't know enough about the lesser used races to offer any judgement there.

Assuming he is greater than level 12, which is pretty much a given, he will have had three ability point boosts as he has leveled. If he put all of those into Con, and is also of a race that gives a +2 con bonus, and started with 18 Con, he could get up to 23, the minimum (that I would consider necessary) for a 'mid-twenties' Con score.

Still, as I said, I don't think he is likely to be anything other than a normal human, so can someone please help me - how else could O-Chul have achieved such a high Con score?

[Iain]

He ate Chuck Norris.

[Storm Bringer]

After browsing the Order of the Stick TV Tropes page, I discovered a comment about O-Chul stating that he has a Con score in the mid twenties (which I interpret as being anywhere from 23-26) according to the Giant. I have played some D&D, but I'm not an expert, so please can someone tell me - how can you get a Con score that high?

Even if he started with a score of 18, I don't see how we could gain anywhere between 5 and 8 points in Con so easily. I guess magic items could do that, but somehow I don't think the Giant would count that, and O-Chul has never been said to possess any magic items, which would probably have been confiscated in his imprisonment anyway.

He seems to be a regular human, so I don't think he has a racial bonus - although I don't know enough about the lesser used races to offer any judgement there.

Assuming he is greater than level 12, which is pretty much a given, he will have had three ability point boosts as he has leveled. If he put all of those into Con, and is also of a race that gives a +2 con bonus, and started with 18 Con, he could get up to 23, the minimum (that I would consider necessary) for a 'mid-twenties' Con score.

Still, as I said, I don't think he is likely to be anything other than a normal human, so can someone please help me - how else could O-Chul have achieved such a high Con score?

Manual of of Bodily Health is an option (it's a magic book that gives a one-time, perminent CON bunus. I think it's either +4 or +6, but not sure off the top of my head).

[Bastian Weaver]

1. TV Tropes might be wrong. Shocking, eh?
2. He might've used O'Chul's Improved Con Boost feat.

[Kaurne]

Manual of of Bodily Health is an option (it's a magic book that gives a one-time, perminent CON bunus. I think it's either +4 or +6, but not sure off the top of my head).

As far as I can find, it is anywhere between +1 and +5 depending on the specific item book. If he got a +5, he wouldn't need a racial bonus to reach 26, which I consider the highest possible 'mid twenties' score. That is probably all that is needed.


1. TV Tropes might be wrong. Shocking, eh?
2. He might've used O'Chul's Improved Con Boost feat.

Although TV Tropes didn't have a link, that doesn't mean he didn't say it. And logically, from what we have seen of him, he would need a pretty high Con score anyways.

[Hironomus]

Maybe we will find out in the upcoming pdf!!!! :smallsmile:

[Belril Duskwalk]

Although TV Tropes didn't have a link, that doesn't mean he didn't say it. And logically, from what we have seen of him, he would need a pretty high Con score anyways.

Logically, yes O'Chul must have a seriously good Con score. However, to the best of my knowledge The Giant has almost never directly quantified any Ability Scores of any character, much less the best score of a non-main character (no matter how badass). I find it highly suspect that The Giant has ever seen fit to make statements on O'Chul's Constitution and would take nothing less than a link to the post where The Giant said it as proof.

[Michaeler]

Wish can grant up to +5 if you can get 5 people to cast it on you at once.

Though I reckon the 12 gods did it when he joined the sapphire guard. Just a random guess.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Although TV Tropes didn't have a link, that doesn't mean he didn't say it. And logically, from what we have seen of him, he would need a pretty high Con score anyways.

According to the Class & Level Geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230935) thread, Rich said it in the commentary in War and XPs. My copy of W&XPs is all the way over there *points* so I'm not going to check it for exact wording.

[Jaros]

By the DM/author saying he does and scores in the story not always being allocated by dice roll/point buy.

[Kaytara]

TV Tropes is never wrong!!! :D

Rich did say it in the commentary to War & XPs. I vaguely remember that he was addressing some issue like "How did O-Chul survive a fall like that?" or something.

[Lord Torath]

However, to the best of my knowledge The Giant has almost never directly quantified any Ability Scores of any character, much less the best score of a non-main character (no matter how badass).
Actually, he did once (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html).

I will get my copy of War & XP's only after Rich gets all his new books printed, so I can't check his commentary either.

[North_Ranger]

Actually, he did once (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html).

I will get my copy of War & XP's only after Rich gets all his new books printed, so I can't check his commentary either.

Yes, but the comment about V's intelligence back in the Dungeon of Dorukan is more than likely outdated by now. I mean, the Order has probably leveled plenty since those days, and I wouldn't be surprised if V would put all his/her boosts to INT.

[RMS Oceanic]

I have W&XPs here, and I can confirm that O-Chul's constitution is in the mid twenties.

To gain that, either he gained a Tsukiko-style boon* of exceptional gifts, or started at 18 and funnelled everything he could into it.

*Tsukiko's arcane magical side was intended to be a Wizard specializing in necromancy. However Rich had her casting from too many schools to cover this, so he Rule Zero'd that she only had one barred school.

[King of Nowhere]

O-chul don't have a constitution score. Constitution has an o-chul score.
But, seriosuly, I wondered the same thing. I don't think he got his hands on a tome to increase stats, but that's the only way he could have more than 21 con without magic items. and he surely didn't have magic items when prisoner.

However, we can also interpret the giant's words that he has a con in the mid twenties with magic items. when he survived the fall, he had magic items on him. andd that explains how he survived the explosion that killeed miko, who was higher level than him.
Stripped of his magic items, he would have 20 or 21, which would be enough to survive the shark stunt.

[RMS Oceanic]

Actually I think it's more likely his constitution is mid twenties before any magic items. Remember that some time later he took a Disintegrate, a Meteor Swarm and a Maximized Lightning Bolt to the face and lived to talk about it.

[thepsyker]

I would bet on a mix of wishes and the tome mentioned earlier, possibly from his time as a fighter before joining the SG. Then again there is the fact that he is multiclassed, between the two he might be a higher level than expected allowing for more chances to boost con.

[DeadmanXI]

Well, let's assume a starting score of 18 and at leaqst 8th level with points put in Con. That's a 20 already.

From there, a Manual of Bodily Health could give up to +5, and/or a Belt of Con could grant up to +6.

And the belt could be involved, since I believe the comment on his Con was specifically in reference to how he survived the gate explosion to land, paralyzed, by the MitD, and that was with all his equipment still on. His later exploits as a captive are impressive, but not enough to pinpoint a precise Con score. He could've rolled maximum every level on HP, after all.

Personally, I'd guess a Manual upping him to 22 or so, plus a belt getting him all the way to 26, but I could easily be mistaken.

[Lord Ruby34]

Something that most people don't seem to consider he might have started with a score above eighteen. It certainly fits his feats of endurance. If you want to justify it you could say the DM had a houserule for stat generation like "Roll 3d6, on a result of an 18 roll another dice and add it on top of the score." Or something like "3d6 in order. You get one extra dice and can add it one to any score." Anything to that effect really.

Or, you know, it could just be for narrative reasons.

[Valyrian]

I might be mistaken, but isn't the random stat generation only for PCs anyway and the DM (or author in this case) can give his NPCs stats as he sees fit, i.e. as they are necessary for narrative purposes and still believable?

[Thanatosia]

I think O-chul is around lv12, so he could have +3 from level up bonuses. I'm guesing he started with 18, so that gets him to 21, so he'd only need to figure some way to get +2 from anywhere to be in the quoted range, and given how many different ways there are to nudge stats slightly, I don't see any point in overspeculating how he's got that modest bump - point is, he has a lot of Con.

[Gift Jeraff]

Proper diet and exercise.

[Skyrunner]

If O-Chul is a paladin, which I think he is, he also gets a bonus equal to his Charisma on saving throws which should help with withstanding Disintegration.

...It doesn't cover the problem about the quote saying 'mid-20s Const score'.

[thepsyker]

Maybe he is a 1st edition Paladin using the rules from Unearthed Arcana that make Paladin a subclass of Cavalier. That would let him add 2D10 % to his Con every time he leveled. And with those rules a Con in the mid twenties would mean his Con would be comparable to some deities like Chuck Norse.:smalltongue:

[Dracarot]

As already stated by Thanatosia he might not have had a mid twenty constitution to begin with but with the help of a manual of bodily health and just getting to level twelve he would have three points to add to his stats. As he started as a fighter constitution is a good stat to add in (although not optimal but since when has this comic cared about optimilization), and Constitution is still valuable to a Paladin who charges into battle. So distributing points to constitution through level gain seems like a logical reason for O-Chul's high constitution.

[Lvl45DM!]

By being badass?
It really seems like one of those screw the rules moments.

Or maybe he's the scion of a god. i played one of Kord's sons in a 1st ed game and i had a dex of 22 without any magic bonuses, and this was back when max dex was 25

[Jaros]

I have W&XPs here, and I can confirm that O-Chul's constitution is in the mid twenties.

To gain that, either he gained a Tsukiko-style boon* of exceptional gifts, or started at 18 and funnelled everything he could into it.

*Tsukiko's arcane magical side was intended to be a Wizard specializing in necromancy. However Rich had her casting from too many schools to cover this, so he Rule Zero'd that she only had one barred school.

Seriously, is everyone just forgetting rule zero?

[Silva Stormrage]

If O-Chul is a paladin, which I think he is, he also gets a bonus equal to his Charisma on saving throws which should help with withstanding Disintegration.

...It doesn't cover the problem about the quote saying 'mid-20s Const score'.

Charisma is his dump stat. He isn't gaining any bonuses on saving throws.

[The Derider]

O-Chul is (now that Miko's dead) probably number two behind Hinjo, in terms of combat strength, in the whole Sapphire Guard. Dude's got some experience, and served in a role that seems to be Shojo's personal attendant. If I were Shojo, I'd use my not inconsiderable wealth to give him some serious magic items.

So I figured the Manual of Bodily Health, some stat bonuses from leveling, natural 18...

Maybe he has a divine bonus or something too. Houseruled feat. Maybe the Sapphire Guard gets a variant stat build where they can add a +2 to any one statistic, and he chose Constitution on top of his Nat 18. Who knows?

[Totally Guy]

Maybe he fell into the potion of bear's endurance when he was a baby.

[Math_Mage]

O-Chul is (now that Miko's dead) probably number two behind Hinjo, in terms of combat strength, in the whole Sapphire Guard. Dude's got some experience, and served in a role that seems to be Shojo's personal attendant. If I were Shojo, I'd use my not inconsiderable wealth to give him some serious magic items.

So I figured the Manual of Bodily Health, some stat bonuses from leveling, natural 18...

Maybe he has a divine bonus or something too. Houseruled feat. Maybe the Sapphire Guard gets a variant stat build where they can add a +2 to any one statistic, and he chose Constitution on top of his Nat 18. Who knows?

Lien and O-Chul are most likely ahead of Hinjo in combat strength, since they gained levels after the fall of Azure City and Hinjo didn't. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0671.html)

I think it's most likely that O-Chul started with a Con of 20 or more by author fiat.

[SavageWombat]

Maybe he fell into the potion of bear's endurance when he was a baby.

This is totally the answer.

[RMS Oceanic]

Maybe he fell into the potion of bear's endurance when he was a baby.

Now when I don't see this in "How the Paladin got his scar" I'll be all sad. :smallfrown:

Anyway, you win the thread for that idea.

[veti]

Actually, he did once (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0031.html).

More than once (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html), back in those days...

But the answer to the thread question is that O-Chul is half-dwarf, which gives him a CON bonus.

Well, that's my guess anyway. How else can you justify that beard?

[Callista]

Well, there are lots of ways to get permanent, non-item-related bonuses to your constitution, from Manual of Bodily Health to the Human Paragon class to the every-4-levels stat boosts, not to mention Wish and Miracle.

O-Chul is a veteran soldier. He's probably done quite a lot of people quite a lot of favors. Given his personality, chances are he's been working toward a high CON score so that he can act as a meat shield--because he's tougher than his buddies, he can take more HP damage than anyone else, making him a good tank-type in a fight. He's been raising CON rather than charisma, as a paladin usually would, because that's his style--just to get himself on the front lines, take the bumps and bruises that would shatter other people's bones.

In all that time, chances are he's taken a few bumps and bruises for people who were rich or important or powerful enough to give him things like a Wish or a powerful magic item. And, given his personality, he' most likely put those things toward being able to be even more durable, to protect others even better. He's not a fancy, showy combatant, not the knight-in-shining-armor charging at you with lance at the ready; he's just a persistent, tough, unbreakable fighter who's almost impossible to put down because no matter how hard you hit him, he just keeps coming. Most likely, he's intimidated more than a few evildoers into backing down, just because he's shrugged off what they know ought to be a killing blow, and come back for more.

Maybe a bit masochistic, but a valid strategy. Anyway, in the middle of combat, you don't really feel all the minor injuries; and in a D&D world, the after-battle soreness is easily got rid of with a potion or a Lay-on-hands. It's not like in the real world, where being injured takes ages to recover from. That changes battle strategy quite a lot--it's no longer stupidly heroic to deliberately put yourself in the path of injury, if you know you can survive it and your friends can't. It's quite simply a logical thing to do, if you're tough and your friends aren't, because you can come back from it and do it again the next time.

If he were an athlete, he'd be an ultramarathon runner.