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Phosphate
2012-03-03, 11:44 AM
This class is not intended to beat anyone (nor is it capable of such). It's just a nifty class that brings dynamism into battle...without the tome. Sorry for the unoriginal name.

The Duelist
http://images.wikia.com/nwn2/images/c/c8/Duelist.jpg
"The sword is as an extension of your body - and your body is a weapon in itself." - Duelist saying

Duelists are masters of the art of combat who live for the love of violence and appreciate nothing more than a good battle.

Organization: Duelists work usually solitarily or as army leaders, and seldom fight together alongside others of their profession. There is no single organization representing all or most of them.

Races: Most races have duelists, though the more nimble ones are more likely to produce duelists that are actually good at what they do. It is, however, in no way a limitation.

Alignment: Any

Gold: as rogue
Age: moderate


The Duelist
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Lunge

1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Parry 1/encounter, Bonus Feat, Lunge|
5 feet

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Exquisite Reflexes, Intricate Defense|
5 feet

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Armor Mobility, Technique|
10 feet

4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Parry 2/encounter, Bonus Feat|
10 feet

5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Precision, Counterstrike|
15 feet

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Enclosure, Opening|
15 feet

7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2|Parry 3/encounter, Bonus Feat|
20 feet

8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Technique, Keen Planning|
20 feet

9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3|Greater Synergy, Agile Charge|
25 feet

10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|Parry 4/encounter, Bonus Feat|
25 feet

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3|Pounce, Greater Counterstrike|
30 feet

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|Combo, Perfect Proficiency|
30 feet

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4|Parry 5/encounter, Bonus Feat|
35 feet

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Battle Flair, Technique|
35 feet

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5|Perfect Stride, Style Recognition|
40 feet

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|Parry 6/encounter, Bonus Feat|
40 feet

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Technique, Feline Fall|
45 feet

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Flawless Attack|
45 feet

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|Parry 7/encounter, Bonus Feat|
50 feet

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Legendary Duelist|
50 feet

[/table]

Hit Dice: d8

Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex)
Skill Points per level: 6 + Int mod

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Duelist is proficient with all simple and martial melee weapons, all types of armor, and no shields.


Parry (Ex): Starting from 1st level, a Duelist can parry once per encounter; this increases by 1 every 3 levels thereafter. Parrying works as such: when you are attacked in melee, instead of using your AC you can oppose the opponent's attack roll with your own attack roll (but use your dex mod instead of your str mod). If your roll is equal to or higher than the opponent's roll, his attack fails normally. If it is lower, his attack succeeds. You can parry multiple times in a round as long as you have uses/encounter available.

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, and every 3 levels thereafter, you receive a bonus feat from the bonus fighter feat list. You must meet all prerequisites. If a feat requires levels in fighter, treat yourself as a fighter of the same level.

Lunge (Ex): Lunge serves multiple purposes. The value of lunge is at first 5 feet, and increases by 5 every other level.

* Lunge distance replaces your base speed if it is greater than it.
* When using Withdrawal, add the Lunge distance to how much you can move.
* When walking/running in a straight line, add the Lunge distance to how much you can move.
* Lunge distance replaces your 5 foot step (whenever you can use a 5 foot step, use a Lunge instead, and it is treated as a 5 foot step for everything except distance moved).
* You threaten all squares 5 feet+threat range around you. If an opponent within the squares you threaten leaves himself open to an AoO, you can move towards him for free.

Exquisite Reflexes (Ex): A level 2 Duelist takes advantage of high ref results. If he fails a reflex save by only 1, he only incurs the partial effect. If he succeeds a reflex save by 2 or more, he will receive no partial effect. If he succeeds a reflex save by 4 or more, he will gain a +2 competence bonus to his next reflex save. If he succeeds a reflex save by 6 or more, he can immediately move for Lunge distance as a free action.

Intricate Defense (Ex): A level 2 Duelist gains his Int mod as an insight bonus to AC.

Armor Mobility (Ex): A level 3 Duelist learns to wear armor more efficiently, so as to add as high a dex mod to AC as possible. If he is wearing light armor, he ignores the dex cap. If he is wearing medium armor, he treats the dex cap as being 3 points larger. If he is wearing heavy armor, he treats the dex cap as being 2 points larger.

Technique (Ex): At levels 3, 8, 14 and 17 a Duelist may either learn one of the Techniques depicted below or receive a +2 boost to dexterity.



Aggravated Blow: Whenever you deal enough damage to an opponent to make him roll a Fort save against dying from massive damage, even if he saves, he is stunned for 1d4 rounds. However, if he beats the DC by 5 or more, he is stunned for only 1 round.

Ambush: Deal d6*dex mod more damage to flat-footed opponents, and dex mod more damage to opponents with a dex of 11 or less.

Aggressive Disarm: Make a melee attack against an opponent as a standard action, taking a -4 on the attack roll. If you strike and deal damage, you may immediately follow with a disarm attempt against the same opponent. He is not given an attack of opportunity.

Mass Misdirection: When you use Feint, you can affect up to 4 targets instead of 1.

Sudden Trip: When you are given an AoO against an opponent, if your attack hits successfully, you can then immediately make a Trip attempt.

Damage Management: You gain DR 5/-. Can be taken multiple times.

Ground Battling Expertise: You do not receive a penalty on attack rolls while prone.

Multitasking: You do not lose your dex to AC while grappling.

Stronger Hit: You deal 10 more damage with melee attacks. Can be taken multiple times.



Precision (Ex): The Duelist's dexterity proves a great aid for him in battle. From level 5 he can add his dex mod to attack rolls.

Counterstrike (Ex): If a level 5 duelist successfully parries an attack, he can then attack the parried opponent as an immediate action at his highest BaB. Counterstrikes cannot deal critical damage.

Enclosure (Ex): After a level 6 Duelist ends his round, if he has successfully attacked and dealt lethal damage that round, he gains a +2 bonus to AC and parry until his next round.

Opening (Ex): A level 6 Duelist attacking an opponent flanked by one of his allies treats the flanking bonus as being +6. Also, if the Duelist is flanking an opponent, his allies receive a flanking bonus of +4 against him.

Keen Planning: A level 8 Duelist can use Ready as a free action. He can still only use it once per round.

Greater Synergy (Ex): A level 9 Duelist gains +4 instead of +2 from the synergy bonuses of his skills.

Agile Charge (Ex): From level 9, a charging Duelist can change direction once.

Pounce (Ex): When a level 11 Duelist with this special attack makes a charge, he can follow with a full attack.

Greater Counterstrike (Ex): As counterstrike, but it doesn't require an attack roll (it always hits).

Combo (Ex): If a level 12 Duelist strikes an opponent with a full attack, and all his hits successfully overcome his AC and deal lethal damage, he gains 1 additional attack at his full BaB.

Perfect Proficiency (Ex): A level 12 Duelist is always treated as being proficient with whatever weapon he is using for all purposes, except as a feat requirement (true proficiency is needed for things like Improved Critical).

Battle Flair (Ex): A level 14 Duelist adds his Charisma modifier to his AC (unless he is flatfooted), attack rolls, parry, and damage rolls. If the modifier is negative, this feature does not apply.

Perfect Stride (Ex): A level 15 Duelist always ignores the speed reductions of difficult terrain.

Style Recognition (Ex): If a level 15 Duelist successfully strikes an opponent in melee combat and deals lethal damage, until the end of the encounter he may add his Wisdom modifier to AC and parry against that opponent only (a multitude of opponents can be under this effect at the same time).

Feline Fall (Ex): A level 17 Duelist never takes damage from falling, whatever the distance. Also, if he falls for more than 25 feet, after he touches the ground he may move his Lunge distance as a free action.

Flawless Attack (Ex): A level 18 Duelist uses his highest BaB value for all attacks in a full attack.

Legendary Duelist (Ex): A level 20 Duelist becomes a living legend. He can parry as many times as he wants, his weapons always overcome DR and Hardness, he cannot be disarmed and he instantly learns his maximum age. Within 5 years of that he can get himself an apprentice. An apprentice starts out as a level 1 Duelist, cannot multiclass, needs 30% less XP to level up and cannot have a class level greater than that of his master.


The class is mostly done, just need to add Techniques....it will happen.

Madara
2012-03-04, 10:55 AM
* Increase your threat range by your Lunge distance.

Let's see...Large Size+Reach Weapon= 15ft. +10ft. means that at 3 lv we have 25ft. reach :smalleek:

Now we take combat Expertise, and improved Trip. Then everyone dies.

Feel free to say "up to your Lunge distance"

Otherwise, its good, and sticks to the theme.

Phosphate
2012-03-04, 11:29 AM
Now we take combat Expertise, and improved Trip. Then everyone dies.

Fabulous, no?

Think I should give him some damage boosting features on the side?

Seerow
2012-03-04, 11:29 AM
Let's see...Large Size+Reach Weapon= 15ft. +10ft. means that at 3 lv we have 25ft. reach :smalleek:

Now we take combat Expertise, and improved Trip. Then everyone dies.

Feel free to say "up to your Lunge distance"

Otherwise, its good, and sticks to the theme.

Yeah I'd say that this should be half your lunge distance, round down. That still gets you 30ft base reach by level 20, but slows the scaling down considerably.



Also Aggravated Blow by mid-high level is ridiculous. As long as you can manage 50 damage in one hit (trivial by mid-high level) then you are basically guaranteed to add 1d4 rounds of stun to anything you hit, no save. Combined with your effective reach, you could do a full attack and be stunning basically everyone always, with no way to block it.

I stopped reading at that point, and I have to go right now. I'll read the rest later.

NeoSeraphi
2012-03-04, 11:58 AM
Lunge is...odd. So let's say that I take this class as a halfling with a permanent reduce person effect. This means that my character is around 2.5' tall and has a natural reach of 0'. Yet your class gives me a reach of 50' at level 20. However, you don't explain this in any way. Based on the name and description, I guess how this would work is that you are able to move 50' and then deliver an attack for free (even as part of an AoO)?

If that's the case, make that a clear, concise description. Because right now, a 2.5' character with 0' reach can stab at the air with his toothpick dagger and still hit someone 50 feet away, and that just doesn't make any sense.

The d10 hit dice is too high. It feels pretty out of place. Yes, the swashbuckler has d10, but the swashbuckler's abilities aren't nearly as movement-focused as this class' (and the swashbuckler doesn't have good Reflex saves).

D8, on the other hand, is a well-balanced amount of hit points for a skirmisher (monk, ranger, etc). You have movement and speed to protect yourself, you don't need as many hit points as the fighter and you shouldn't get them either. Also, you gave him some kind of weird evasion, and that really only belongs on a d8 chassis.

Skills are good, skill points are good, however, in 3.5, all classes that have Disable Device as a class skill also have the Trapfinding class feature (because WotC decided to put most use of the Disable Device skill into a class feature).

Intricate Defense: Dodge bonuses always stack. If you don't want it to stack, say that it's an insight bonus that is lost when he is flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity modifier to AC. No reason to go against the system here.

Battle Flair: Interesting. So the duelist gets his Dex to AC (as high as he wants it, while wearing a +5 mithral breastplate), his Int to AC, and now his Cha to AC. It's...alright, I suppose? Still feel like he should lose it when he's flat-footed though. It's not armor, it's flair, and you can't use it when you're unaware. (Invisible creatures are the DM's nukes. Don't take that away from us.)

Perfect Proficiency: Balling. This is a nice touch, comes in at a good level, and really opens you up to whatever kind of awesome you want. Since it's really just providing you with the benefits of a single feat at a time, but that feat is interchangable, it's kind of like a floating bonus feat pool from a very narrow selection, which is good for this level.

Combo: This won't happen often until level 18, when you get Flawless Attack, and that point, it's really just like a monk's improved Flurry of Blows, so no big deal. Nice, not overpowered.

Techniques: DR 10/-. DR 10/-? At level 3? And you can take it twice and get DR 20/- at level 8? The tarrasque has DR 20/-! This is...no. No no no no. Getting four times the damage reduction that a barbarian gets at level 8 is not okay. Getting damage reduction higher than 5/- at level 3 is definitely not okay. It's just....wrong. This needs to be toned down. Maybe DR 2/-, and you can take it as many times as you like, ending with DR 8/- at level 17. This guy is not a tank, he's the master of not getting hit, not sucking it up. You're crossing themes here, and that's bad. Personally, I would just drop the damage reduction altogether.

For Sudden Trip, I'm pretty sure you can already Trip people as an AoO. You get to make a Trip attempt instead of a single attack whenever you want.

I agree that Aggravated Blow is pretty bad. Maybe just make it 2 rounds?

Class looks good otherwise.

Phosphate
2012-03-04, 02:28 PM
Yeah I'd say that this should be half your lunge distance, round down. That still gets you 30ft base reach by level 20, but slows the scaling down considerably.

There's a word that applies to most things in D&D that are either low range or no range. And that word is useless. I know this is strong (against Tier 3-).


Also Aggravated Blow by mid-high level is ridiculous. As long as you can manage 50 damage in one hit (trivial by mid-high level) then you are basically guaranteed to add 1d4 rounds of stun to anything you hit, no save. Combined with your effective reach, you could do a full attack and be stunning basically everyone always, with no way to block it.

Because AoE's that are stronger than this do not exist.


Lunge is...odd. So let's say that I take this class as a halfling with a permanent reduce person effect. This means that my character is around 2.5' tall and has a natural reach of 0'. Yet your class gives me a reach of 50' at level 20.

Wrong. It gives you a threat range of 50'. I never said anything about reach.


However, you don't explain this in any way. Based on the name and description, I guess how this would work is that you are able to move 50' and then deliver an attack for free (even as part of an AoO)?

Of course, since it's threat, not reach.


If that's the case, make that a clear, concise description. Because right now, a 2.5' character with 0' reach can stab at the air with his toothpick dagger and still hit someone 50 feet away, and that just doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I should probably rewrite to clarify. Done.


The d10 hit dice is too high. It feels pretty out of place. Yes, the swashbuckler has d10, but the swashbuckler's abilities aren't nearly as movement-focused as this class' (and the swashbuckler doesn't have good Reflex saves).

D8, on the other hand, is a well-balanced amount of hit points for a skirmisher (monk, ranger, etc). You have movement and speed to protect yourself, you don't need as many hit points as the fighter and you shouldn't get them either. Also, you gave him some kind of weird evasion, and that really only belongs on a d8 chassis.

There are a lot of things that deal damage without attacking you (Disintegrate says hi). I want the Duelist to cope with them. Also, if he wants to be optimized he must work on most of his ability scores, the d10 helps him to work less on one (MAD instead of AAD).


Skills are good, skill points are good, however, in 3.5, all classes that have Disable Device as a class skill also have the Trapfinding class feature (because WotC decided to put most use of the Disable Device skill into a class feature).

I'll just not give them Disable Device then (actually...it doesn't fit).


Intricate Defense: Dodge bonuses always stack. If you don't want it to stack, say that it's an insight bonus that is lost when he is flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity modifier to AC. No reason to go against the system here.

*facepalm* sorry, changed to insight


Battle Flair: Interesting. So the duelist gets his Dex to AC (as high as he wants it, while wearing a +5 mithral breastplate), his Int to AC, and now his Cha to AC. It's...alright, I suppose? Still feel like he should lose it when he's flat-footed though. It's not armor, it's flair, and you can't use it when you're unaware. (Invisible creatures are the DM's nukes. Don't take that away from us.)

Hmm...fair point.



Techniques: DR 10/-. DR 10/-? At level 3? And you can take it twice and get DR 20/- at level 8? The tarrasque has DR 20/-! This is...no. No no no no. Getting four times the damage reduction that a barbarian gets at level 8 is not okay. Getting damage reduction higher than 5/- at level 3 is definitely not okay. It's just....wrong. This needs to be toned down. Maybe DR 2/-, and you can take it as many times as you like, ending with DR 8/- at level 17. This guy is not a tank, he's the master of not getting hit, not sucking it up. You're crossing themes here, and that's bad. Personally, I would just drop the damage reduction altogether.

Compromise...DR 5. Should work.


For Sudden Trip, I'm pretty sure you can already Trip people as an AoO. You get to make a Trip attempt instead of a single attack whenever you want.

Sorry, I wrote that completely wrong :)). I wanted to say they can make an AoO AND a trip.


I agree that Aggravated Blow is pretty bad. Maybe just make it 2 rounds?

There's...hardly any difference. Rewrote it for balance though.

Madara
2012-03-04, 02:36 PM
Wrong. It gives you a threat range of 50'. I never said anything about reach.

Threat Range (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_threatrange&alpha=), probably not what you meant? Do you mean the squares you threaten with AoO? Cause that would still let you make AoO against everything in 50'.



attack of opportunity

A single extra melee attack per round that a combatant can make when an opponent within reach takes an action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Cover prevents attacks of opportunity.
So, you need to clarify.

However, this is a "just for fun" as in the title, so I wouldn't worry about balance. As a GM, I would never allow this class.

Phosphate
2012-03-04, 02:54 PM
Threat Range (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_threatrange&alpha=), probably not what you meant? Do you mean the squares you threaten with AoO? Cause that would still let you make AoO against everything in 50'.

Riiight.... I'll just write "you threaten all squares within reach+lunge distance of yourself". That should work.


However, this is a "just for fun" as in the title, so I wouldn't worry about balance. As a GM, I would never allow this class.

Would you allow a druid?

Madara
2012-03-04, 03:05 PM
Yep, I allow druids. Tier 1s are complicated. While they are overpowered, most of my players can't keep track of that sort of optimization. This class however, is very easy to optimize, or simply use at T1 Status.


you can move towards him for free.
That makes it better. Now we're getting closer to accepted status. We're still upping AC to silly levels with no armor. Just grant Mobility so that the AC boosts aren't needed. As far as I believe, this class is supposed to be a light-weight hit and run, so it shouldn't get nor need high AC.

Seerow
2012-03-04, 04:48 PM
There's a word that applies to most things in D&D that are either low range or no range. And that word is useless. I know this is strong (against Tier 3-).

We're talking about threatened area, where you can take AoOs.




Because AoE's that are stronger than this do not exist.

Show me any wizard spell of say 6th or 7th level (50 damage per attack should easily be obtainable around 11-13), that is save or die, with a successful save leaving you stunned for 1d4 rounds. Even take out the save or die, show me anything that will allow for that length of stun with no save that can be used against multiple creatures each round. The closest thing I can think of is holy word/blasphemy with caster level cheese.

NeoSeraphi
2012-03-04, 10:12 PM
There are a lot of things that deal damage without attacking you (Disintegrate says hi). I want the Duelist to cope with them. Also, if he wants to be optimized he must work on most of his ability scores, the d10 helps him to work less on one (MAD instead of AAD).


....:smallconfused:

Disintegrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disintegrate.htm) does indeed say hi, and it also says "You must make a successful ranged touch attack to hit." Second line.

Phosphate
2012-03-06, 08:15 AM
Show me any wizard spell of say 6th or 7th level (50 damage per attack should easily be obtainable around 11-13), that is save or die, with a successful save leaving you stunned for 1d4 rounds. Even take out the save or die, show me anything that will allow for that length of stun with no save that can be used against multiple creatures each round. The closest thing I can think of is holy word/blasphemy with caster level cheese.

Changed it so it's weaker anyway.


Yep, I allow druids. Tier 1s are complicated. While they are overpowered, most of my players can't keep track of that sort of optimization. This class however, is very easy to optimize, or simply use at T1 Status.

You don't need to keep track of anything to optimize a druid. You just need to get 1 feat.

Also, you just called a completely mundane class T1?



That makes it better. Now we're getting closer to accepted status. We're still upping AC to silly levels with no armor. Just grant Mobility so that the AC boosts aren't needed. As far as I believe, this class is supposed to be a light-weight hit and run, so it shouldn't get nor need high AC.

It's not a hit and run, which is why it has so many defensive abilities. It's a hit and stay there, making sure opponents don't go past you and are crushed if they attempt to attack you and fail. Quite a mouthful, I know, but I balance things like that.


....:smallconfused:

Disintegrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disintegrate.htm) does indeed say hi, and it also says "You must make a successful ranged touch attack to hit." Second line.

Um...whatev. Point was there were things that just target a save, will or fort, for damage. But fine, d8 won't hurt.