It's so cute. Can I have it?

[Bard for Kicks]

Is it possible to acquire a familiar without taking lvls in a class that gives a familiar or burning a feat?

[hivedragon]

No, but you can buy a pet if you want. You can awaken it if you want an intelligent version of that animal.

[Ryulin18]

IIRC, there isn't a way for a non-caster to get a familiar. You need at least 1 level to get one.

Nothing stopping you from doing hivedragon's approach.

The evil approach is to steal an orphan to be your pet, hiring an orc for 1sp a day and calling him "Mr scruffles" or other villianish deeds.

[Bard for Kicks]

So, I just march through a forest, grab a pretty snake and ask a druid to awaken it? Does that fulfill requirements for PrCs that require a familiar?

[Keneth]

Of course if you awaken it, there's no guarantee it'll stick around. But yes, you can pretty much get any creature to follow you around (intelligent or otherwise), but unless they also actively participate in a fight, they're never going to improve.

[Bard for Kicks]

But. Let's say that it does stick around and I name the snake. Err..Mr. Scruffles. Does he recieve the benefits of a familiar if he willingly agrees to become my familiar?

[Voyager_I]

So, I just march through a forest, grab a pretty snake and ask a druid to awaken it? Does that fulfill requirements for PrCs that require a familiar?

No. A Familiar is a specific class feature. You can't even have a Familiar until you have a class that grants them to you or have taken feats to gain access to them.

There are many, many ways to get a cute little animal to stick with you, but they don't qualify you for anything unless they're the specific name of the prerequisite.

Similarly, a companion that happens to be an animal is not the same thing as an Animal Companion, doesn't receive the benefits of being an Animal Companion, and doesn't qualify you for PrC's that require the ability to have an Animal Companion.


You cannot fluff your way into class features.

[Eloel]

But. Let's say that it does stick around and I name the snake. Err..Mr. Scruffles. Does he recieve the benefits of a familiar if he willingly agrees to become my familiar?

And you have the ability of getting Familiar?
IIRC, that's how you're supposed to get Familiars anyway. Or was that Animal Companions?

[FearlessGnome]

No. You need at least one level in Druid or any Arcance caster class. A druid can get a 'Urban Companion', which is basically a familiar. An Arcane caster level lets you take the feat Obtain Familiar. A friendly pet is not your Familiar in any way. It's just an animal that happens to like you.

[ahenobarbi]

Does that fulfill requirements for PrCs that require a familiar?

I don't think so. To get to PrC that requres familiar you need, well a familiar. Fasters way to get it is Sor/Wiz dip. Or you can get Arcane caster level 3 (well Magical Trainig Feat and boots your CL... I'm not sure if it will work...) and "Obtain Familiar" feat (CAr).

What do you need familiar for?

[Bard for Kicks]

Well...I traded out my familiar for metamagic specialist sorcerer (which is BY FAR better)
However, druids are banned in my campaign and I wanted to benefit from dual casting so I actually filled the requirements for Arcane Heirophant in a painstaking way by sorcerer/cleric levels. Other dual casting classes are pretty weak (mystic theurge, fochlucan lyrist which i can't even get into) and Arcane Heirophant progresses your familiar level benefits, which I wanted.

[Yuki Akuma]

So you want to have your cake and eat it, too?

If you traded your familiar away to get an alternate class feature, no, you cannot just cheat and get it back for free. Take Obtain Familiar. It's better than the Summon Familiar class feature anyway.

[Bard for Kicks]

Thanks for all your input.
So I'm seeing that, indeed, I have to burn a feat. Well, I'll have a few levels to go before getting into A.H. so I'll select Obtain F. as my next feat.

[MukkTB]

Just to clarify Obtain Familiar is a feat that gives you the familiar class feature and only requires that you are an arcane spellcaster.

[FMArthur]

Have you considered other metamagic-shorteners?

If you're starting above or close to level 9, Complete Mage has the Rapid Metamagic feat that simply removes the metamagic action restriction altogether and isn't limited, so it is better than the Sorcerer ACF anyway.

If you're below that, do you know about Accelerate Metamagic from Races of the Dragon? It's a feat that does the above for a single metamagic feat each time you take it. Since you're using PHII to take Metamagic Specialist anyway, you could use that feat as a substitute and then use PHII's feat retraining rules to replace those feats after you reach level 9 and take Rapid Metamagic.

Edit: Yeah, there's pretty much no way you're getting what you want here without a feat spent somewhere, sorry.

[Yuki Akuma]

Just to clarify Obtain Familiar is a feat that gives you the familiar class feature and only requires that you are an arcane spellcaster.

Nope. It's better than the class feature.

Summon Familiar depends on your class level. Obtain Familiar depends on your caster level.

This means if you PrC out of Wizard at level 4, your familiar will forever be a level 3 familiar if you have Summon Familiar, but will keep advancing with you if you have Obtain Familiar.

Neat, huh?

[Coidzor]

Familiars are nice, but the benefits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars) aren't that nice past 3rd level, maybe 5th until 11th for lackluster spell resistance and then a few points of natural armor. Animal companions are far tastier.

If familiar progression was necessary to give them additional HD, but... eh. IIRC, psicrystalizing familiars would just have them possess HD equal to their master regardless of what class levels the master had.

[Bard for Kicks]

I've got to agree with Coidzor on the familiar's usefulness...
However, one of the highlights of Arcane Heirophant is that you can get a Companion Familiar, which is...really neat. Since druids are banned, I can't even have an animal companion, so, is it even worth having a familiar? I mean, I don't think I can get wildshape either, because the prC says you only get wildshape if you already had it...argh...there aren't any good dual casting prCs!

[Yuki Akuma]

Wild Cohort says hi. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a)

[Coidzor]

Notable examples of sources of wildshape or related abilities from the Lists of Stuff (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff) would include Abolisher, Lion of Talisid, Ranger variant from Unearthed Arcana, Monk variant from dragon magazine, and moonspeaker.

IIRC, there's something like a lesser worghest or something which has a racial ability variant.

Also, Divine Minions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a). It is an acquired template...

[Urpriest]

In any case, if Druids are banned in your campaign then probably Arcane Hierophants are too.

[Hiro Protagonest]

So you want to have your cake and eat it, too?

It's more like trading your cake for pie, than eating the pie, then trying to get your cake back.

[shortbow]

Any character can get a dedicated pet that scales, if your DM allows the Leadership feat. Nothing prevents you from taking that awakened snake as your Cohort and hey, it can even have class levels in Sorcerer/Psion.

Interestingly it could then have it's own familiar...

[Bard for Kicks]

In any case, if Druids are banned in your campaign then probably Arcane Hierophants are too.

Actually getting into A.H. is possible. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868490/The_Arcane_Hierophant_Examined

[deuxhero]

With Pathfinder material yes for Rogues and Magus, who can grab one by their once every 2 levels abilities.

[Elric VIII]

Well...I traded out my familiar for metamagic specialist sorcerer (which is BY FAR better)
However, druids are banned in my campaign and I wanted to benefit from dual casting so I actually filled the requirements for Arcane Heirophant in a painstaking way by sorcerer/cleric levels. Other dual casting classes are pretty weak (mystic theurge, fochlucan lyrist which i can't even get into) and Arcane Heirophant progresses your familiar level benefits, which I wanted.

If you read the Familiar Companion text carefully, you will notice that you don't actually need a familiar for it to work. For the purpose of this feature, your familar level is equal to your Arcane Heirophant level + your Arcane spellcasting level.


Upon becoming an arcane heirophant, you must dismiss your familiar, if you have one.


You add your arcane heirophant class level to your arcane spellcasting level, and determine the intelligence bonus and of your animal companion accordingly (see the sidebar Familiars, page 53 of the player's handbook).

This is a class ability that is not compatible with, but separate from, a familiar. Hope this helps.

[Ravens_cry]

Wild Cohort says hi. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a)
That would be my suggestion as well. I also found it nice for a campaign where I had a mounted character who was mundane but for fluff and story reasons could not simply buy a new one every time it croaked from taking a single hit.

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually getting into A.H. is possible. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868490/The_Arcane_Hierophant_Examined

What he means is that the prestige class may be banned for similar fluff reasons as the Druid. In which case whether or not you can get into it without Druid levels is neither here nor there.

[Urpriest]

Actually getting into A.H. is possible. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868490/The_Arcane_Hierophant_Examined

As Yuki mentions, I'm well aware that you can enter Arcane Hierophant with no Druid levels. (You could use, for example, Ur-Priest :smallwink:). But any reason that the DM would ban Druids is also a reason why they would ban Arcane Hierophant.


Any character can get a dedicated pet that scales, if your DM allows the Leadership feat. Nothing prevents you from taking that awakened snake as your Cohort and hey, it can even have class levels in Sorcerer/Psion.

Interestingly it could then have it's own familiar...

Awakened animals have no LA and are not suitable for Cohorts. That said, there are lots of cutesy animals that have LA. Beguilers are fun. Especially Beguiler Beguilers with Beguiler familiars. But anyway, the OP wants familiar benefits, not just a minion.

[Elric VIII]

As Yuki mentions, I'm well aware that you can enter Arcane Hierophant with no Druid levels. (You could use, for example, Ur-Priest :smallwink:). But any reason that the DM would ban Druids is also a reason why they would ban Arcane Hierophant.

That's not necessarily true. The Oriental Adventures book specifically states that Druids are not present in their setting, since the druid is a european concept. That said, a Wu-Jen/Shugenja/Arcane Heirophant fits just fine.

[Urpriest]

That's not necessarily true. The Oriental Adventures book specifically states that Druids are not present in their setting, since the druid is a european concept. That said, a Wu-Jen/Shugenja/Arcane Heirophant fits just fine.

Why? Arcane Hierophants class features are based around having an animal companion and wild shape. Those two things are precisely the "European concept" of the Druid.

[IdleMuse]

From my big folder of character builds... an arcane hierophant sans druid.

Star Elf (+2 Cha -2 Con, Ghost Touch at night)

Bardic Knowledge -> Loresong
Countersong -> Mimicking Song
Fascinate -> Healing Hymn
Inspire Competence -> Hymn of Fortification

1 | Savage Bard 1 Aereni Focus (Handle Animal), Favored (Mercenary Guild), Primary Contact (Handle Animal)
2 | Savage Bard 2
3 | Savage Bard 3 Endurance
4 | Savage Bard 4
5 | Beastmaster 1
6 | Wildrunner 1 Favoured of the Companions
7 | Lion of Talisid 1
8 | Lion of Talisid 2
9 | Lion of Talisid 3 Weapon Focus
10| Divine Crusader 1 (Celerity?)
11| Lion of Talisad 4 Exalted Companion
12| Arcane Hierophant 1 Natural Spell
13| Arcane Hierophant 2
14| Arcane Hierophant 3
15| Arcane Hierophant 4 Natural Bond
16| Arcane Hierophant 5
17| Arcane Hierophant 6
18| Arcane Hierophant 7 Enlarge Spell
19| Arcane Hierophant 8
20| Arcane Devotee 1

Animal Companion equiv. of Druid 19
Either: 12th level Celestial Lion
or 9th level Celestial Dire Lion

The ACFs are probably just my preferences, (aside from Savage Bard), rather than necessary for the build, as are most of the late feats, and obviously this build isn't necessarily going to work for your character, but I figure it might provide some ideas. Iirc, Beastmaster gives this character the Animal Companion here? Obtain familiar could probably be stuffed in somewhere.

[Elric VIII]

Why? Arcane Hierophants class features are based around having an animal companion and wild shape. Those two things are precisely the "European concept" of the Druid.

The concept of an animal companion/guardian is often seen in Asian mythology; Japanese fables often include non-anthropomorphic animals of human intelligence that inteact with people.

Plus, without Druid, AH doesn't give you wildshape, right?

[Bard for Kicks]

Actually, my DM didn't ban druid for plot reasons. He thinks they're overpowered and break the game...see...they are very powerful, but unless you're really trying, you don't break the game. Anyway, as long as I don't have druid levels, I can take any prC I want.

Also, can I just confirm this? Without wildshape, A.H. does not get wildshape. Right?

My main reason for taking A.H. is that it is better than Mystic Theurge and I want to benefit as much as possible in terms of class features.

[huttj509]

Actually, my DM didn't ban druid for plot reasons. He thinks they're overpowered and break the game...see...they are very powerful, but unless you're really trying, you don't break the game.

Or take Natural Spell and break it accidentally.

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually, my DM didn't ban druid for plot reasons. He thinks they're overpowered and break the game...see...they are very powerful, but unless you're really trying, you don't break the game.

You get something better than a first-level Fighter as a class feature. At first level.

At higher levels you spend all day as a bear. Who casts spells.

[Bard for Kicks]

You get something better than a first-level Fighter as a class feature. At first level.

At higher levels you spend all day as a bear. Who casts spells.

But that shouldn't be enough to break a game. I've never really encountered DMs banning classes because they break a campaign, especially since I'm a number crunching gamer. Should a druid really be feared and awed? Sure druids deserve respect, and they are aweeesome, but I didn't really think they were ban-worthy. (And yes, I do know most of the nifty druid abuses...if you don't (ab)use them, druids are playable)

[Steward]

In my view, things are only broken if the player and the DM work together to make it broken. That being said, druids are an incredibly powerful and versatile class -- probably the best overall class in all of core. They're full spellcasters who, by themselves, can transform into primary melee characters while also having one auxiliary primary melee character and the option to summon more. Between spellcasting, animal companion, and wildshape, they can pretty much fulfill the role of every generic archetype except for the arcane spellcaster and do it as well if not better than the classes who were actually designed for that role. (A lot of this, though, has to do with the fact that most other classes just aren't very well-designed.)

Can they be played in a safe, fun way? Sure. Is it easy to break them, even accidentally? Definitely. I can see why a DM would want to ban them even if I personally wouldn't make that decision. Certainly it's a lot more logical than someone who thinks that monks are overpowered.

[Lysander]

Sorry if this was already mentioned in the thread and I missed it, but do you want a familiar for crunch reasons or fluff reasons?

I don't see why your DM would object to letting you get a pet snake that doesn't do anything, if you just want a prop for roleplaying reasons.

You can also buy a trained snake, or train one yourself with Handle Animal, and it can perform simple tricks for you. Maybe even a few useful ones. And you can call it a familiar if you like, even though it'll be much weaker than a real familiar.

[Bard for Kicks]

Sorry if this was already mentioned in the thread and I missed it, but do you want a familiar for crunch reasons or fluff reasons?

I don't see why your DM would object to letting you get a pet snake that doesn't do anything, if you just want a prop for roleplaying reasons.

You can also buy a trained snake, or train one yourself with Handle Animal, and it can perform simple tricks for you. Maybe even a few useful ones. And you can call it a familiar if you like, even though it'll be much weaker than a real familiar.

Well. Really I just want a ferret...mostly for roleplay...since they are really cute and I'm a ditzy caster. But, I don't want some useless 1HD animal that I have to care for constantly. It would be nice if it could benefit from the A.H. class feature

[Lysander]

Well. Really I just want a ferret...mostly for roleplay...since they are really cute and I'm a ditzy caster. But, I don't want some useless 1HD animal that I have to care for constantly. It would be nice if it could benefit from the A.H. class feature

Even a 1 HD animal isn't useless. If I'm reading handle animal correctly, you should be able to train a pet ferret to track things by scent on command.

It's a 2 INT creature (usually), so it can learn six tricks. So I'd teach it to come, fetch, heel, stay, track, and guard.

With a cheapo pet you get a pretty decent guard (to warn you, not fight for you), tracker, and personal assistant who will fetch small objects on command.

[Bard for Kicks]

Even a 1 HD animal isn't useless. If I'm reading handle animal correctly, you should be able to train a pet ferret to track things by scent on command.

It's a 2 INT creature (usually), so it can learn six tricks. So I'd teach it to come, fetch, heel, stay, track, and guard.

With a cheapo pet you get a pretty decent guard (to warn you, not fight for you), tracker, and personal assistant who will fetch small objects on command.

Well. Can I give it Share Spell in any way? Since A.H. is targeted towards druids, I won't be getting 2 class features from the PrC without
1. wildshape
2. animal companion and familiar

Since I won't have either. It seems pretty useless to me. Having a ferret would be cool but I really just want a familiar with the benefits (like evasion and share spells). Roleplay-wise, it makes sense for me to have a ferret, but I don't want a constantly dying pet. Sure it can perform tricks. How useful is that...? Meh. Not really. I have my "pet" Fighter for that. haha.