Megamind

[NinjaStylerobot]

Well. Its alright. About a 6/10

I avoided watching the movie at first because I just didn't feel it.

But after hearing all the hype, about how dreamworks FINALY left its childish roots and made a movie to rival or even BETTER pixar.

It was alright.

Thing is, this was a very simple film. "Lets take the standard cliche- and REVERSE them".

Well what your left with is another cliche. Its not hard to do:

"Evil orcs, good humans."="Evil humans, good orcs".

"Damsel in distress"= "Guy in distress"

Same thing with this movie. It didn't REALY raise any questions or feel fully fleshed out.

Because when you make "a hero"="a bad guy" you havent done anything.

For example, Metro man.


Turns out metroman didn't die and wanted escape from his life. He also abandoned the city to megaminds control.

Thing is that he could stop time. He also knew megaminds hideout. He could have dismantled it all, and everything inside and arrested megamind. Then left.

Thing is, by demonizing him like this, you just dance around an issue. Megamind KILLED somebody. And not just anybody. A great hero.

But now its OK kids, because he was a jerk all along. :smallsigh:


Or Titan

He also acts like an idiot. Acting, stupid, and being an EVIL villain.

What was his point? Is it for us to forget that megamind also causes great harm? That he was content with causing millions of dollars worth of property damage? For us to go "since hes eveiler megamind is OK now"

Yes, technically this makes megamind a "Hero" when he beats him. But megamind is what CAUSED him anyway. Im sure the taxpayers wont mind him saying "Well at least I learned my lesson" as an excuse for everything


So all an all, nothing much. It wasn't awful, but it wasn't the shining bastion people say it is.

[Saph]

Because when you make "a hero"="a bad guy" you havent done anything.

Eh? None of the three superheroes are 100% on the hero side or 100% on the evil side.

Megamind starts off as a villain, but treats it as a game and does a switch-around by the end. Titan ends up as the most clearly evil character, but he was originally willing to be a hero - the problem was that his only motivation for doing so was getting Roxanne. And Metroman was a hero for a pretty long time before he just got tired. He's not "demonized" - his actions are actually pretty understandable (you might not agree with it, but it's easy to see why he does it).

[Traab]

Oh god, please let us not get into another 6 page argument over the ethics of having superpowers and deciding not to use them. Ive honestly never seen the whole thing, just parts of it, which I enjoyed. I wont say it was great, but it was worth watching imo.

[Cespenar]

Meh. It was a... good, watchable Dreamworks movie, which is saying something, but it's not above-Pixar level.

I mean, Pixar. Let's keep our heads together, people. :smalltongue:

[Dumbledore lives]

I think I'll agree with the rating, but not on every point. I guess I feel that Dr. Horrible did a better villain protagonist than Megamind, even if the had quite different end results. I also feel the Incredibles was a better 3D superhero film in general, so it's not that it is a bad film, it's just nothing great.

[NinjaStylerobot]

Eh? None of the three superheroes are 100% on the hero side or 100% on the evil side.


Thing is, they made him smug and mug as much as possible so we KNOW we should root for mega mind.

If he was a nice guy, and actually DID die it would change everything.

But otherwise its just too simple of a story.

Also why didn't he just save everybody one last time?

[Saph]

Thing is, they made him smug and mug as much as possible so we KNOW we should root for mega mind.

They didn't, really. He might have acted like that as a kid, but in the story it's obvious that he's a basically decent guy. He's just tired.

One of the reasons I liked the film was that I could sympathise completely with both the hero and the villain. It's only Titan who goes over the line into monster territory.

[Avilan the Grey]

Meh. It was a... good, watchable Dreamworks movie, which is saying something, but it's not above-Pixar level.

I mean, Pixar. Let's keep our heads together, people. :smalltongue:

It is better than several Pixar movies. And How To Train Your Dragon is better than all Pixar movies.

[NinjaStylerobot]

They didn't, really. He might have acted like that as a kid, but in the story it's obvious that he's a basically decent guy. He's just tired.

No decent guy abandones a city to a maniacal crazy dude.


One of the reasons I liked the film was that I could sympathise completely with both the hero and the villain. It's only Titan who goes over the line into monster territory.

Eh, thats true. I just wonder why this was announced as dreamworks beating pixar.

Even dispicable me was more of a villain story then this.

It had themes of age, father/ mother issues, dreams.

The scene where he says "I have the moon!" is a really good one. I really felt for this guy.


It is better than several Pixar movies. And How To Train Your Dragon is better than all Pixar movies.

But why?

[Cespenar]

It is better than several Pixar movies. And How To Train Your Dragon is better than all Pixar movies.

I was half-kidding back there, but I'm going to mostly agree with you here as well. I would just change "better than all" in your sentence with "on par with the best few".

[Tiki Snakes]

I'm not sure that the Metroman thing was quite that simple.
I very much got the impression that Metroman had removed himself from the situation partly because he knew that by doing so, he removed Megamind's reason for acting like a Villain, basically giving him space to realise that he was capable of being the hero, so to speak.

I liked Despicable Me too, but found it lacking in comparison in some ways. The characters were great, but the setting and how they handled the comicbookish concept of supervillainy just seemed even less fleshed out in Despicable Me than in Megamind which presented a pretty believable (if heavily referencial) comicbook Super-Setting. I'm phrasing that badly, but I know what I mean.

[NinjaStylerobot]

How to train your dragon is a 8/10 in my book. I like its serious tone a Pochahontas story without a designated WRONG side. Its better then some of Pixars movies, but Toy story 3? Up? Wall-e? Finding nemo? Nah.


I'm not sure that the Metroman thing was quite that simple.

And the explanation STILL doesn't work.

It MIGHT have, but he could have equally NOT.

Even STILL, why didn't he do this BEFORE!

[Lord Vukodlak]

No decent guy abandones a city to a maniacal crazy dude.
What maniacal crazy dude? Megamind wasn't a villain without a superhero to fight. He never had a goal beyond beating Metroman. Staying to fight just continues the cycle.


Also why didn't he just save everybody one last time?
Because he was counting on Megamind to do it. And really the collateral damage from Titan and Metroman going at it would be astronomical. Metroman was playing a batman gambit so he could retire and Megamind could find happiness in the spot light as a hero.



But why?
That debate should probably go in another topic.

[NinjaStylerobot]

What maniacal crazy dude? Megamind wasn't a villain without a superhero to fight. He never had a goal beyond beating Metroman. Staying to fight just continues the cycle.

Once he did, Megamind proceeded to trash the city. And then create a villain that also trashed the city.


Because he was counting on Megamind to do it. And really the collateral damage from Titan and Metroman going at it would be astronomical. Metroman was playing a batman gambit so he could retire and Megamind could find happiness in the spot light as a hero.


I meant just go super fast, destroy ALL of megaminds work, and all his stuff (Since he knew where he was), and then lock him up. He could have done this at ANY TIME.


That debate should probably go in another topic.
This is a thread about megamind. Fire away.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Once he did, Megamind proceeded to trash the city. And then create a villain that also trashed the city.
They trashed the city on a regular basis with there fighting. After retiring Megamind quickly grew board with villainly. Megaminds purpose for being a villain was to fight Metroman. Remove the purpose you remove the villain.
In the end Megamind takes over the role as super-hero and is happy about it.


This is a thread about megamind. Fire away.



It is better than several Pixar movies. And How To Train Your Dragon is better than all Pixar movies.

But why?
I was saying the debate as to why HTTRD is better then all pixar movies belongs in another topic as its not about Megamind.


I meant just go super fast, destroy ALL of megaminds work, and all his stuff (Since he knew where he was), and then lock him up. He could have done this at ANY TIME.
He did on a regular basis the point of the film is Metroman didn't want to be the hero anymore and Megamind never wanted to be a villain to begin with. They both took the roles society expected of them.

[Traab]

Good lord, I thought this topic was done being argued over when it hit 7 pages. Half of which was people arguing ethics of a superhero who wants to stop being a superhero.

[Devonix]

The discussion between Megamind and Metro Man is about Metro trying to convince Mega that he is a hero deep down.

Megamind was so focused on defeating Metroman that he couldn't realize his destiny so it was another reason for Metroman to bow out and chase his own dream.

Also the stuff Megamind and Titan did in damaging the city wasn't much different than the usual tussle between Megamind and Metroman. He likely didn't think things had gotten serious enough for him to even need to step in. And they didn't.

[Devonix]

The discussion between Megamind and Metro Man is about Metro trying to convince Mega that he is a hero deep down.

Megamind was so focused on defeating Metroman that he couldn't realize his destiny so it was another reason for Metroman to bow out and chase his own dream.

Also the stuff Megamind and Titan did in damaging the city wasn't much different than the usual tussle between Megamind and Metroman. He likely didn't think things had gotten serious enough for him to even need to step in. And they didn't.

[Dumbledore lives]

I think another of my problems with the film is that they had a perfect set up for the girl becoming super-powered, thus creating an interesting dynamic as she fought Megamind but slowly fell in love with his alter ego, making the reveal all that more dramatic.

Also I was confused by why the people were cheering for Titan when he was beating up Megamind, because it seemed the city had improved significantly under his rule, once he began to realize all that was going on and tried to fix it, it seemed the quality of life was actually improving.

[Jahkaivah]

Hey, whats the difference between a Megamind thread and a Super Megamind thread?


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/saxcsa/PRESENTATION.png
PRESENTATION
(And also discussing how devilishly awesome this film was.)

[Mando Knight]

Hey, whats the difference between a Megamind thread and a Super Megamind thread?


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c226/saxcsa/PRESENTATION.png
PRESENTATION
(And also discussing how devilishly awesome this film was.)

You DARE challenge MEGAMIND?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJJjcrwXQE)

Personally, I think the movie is decent for the most part, but when they choreograph the scenes to the rock in the background, it really does have PRESENTATION!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJJjcrwXQE)

There were a few rather good applications of evil genius tropes throughout the flick, an amusing justification for the rivalry, a few clever tricks that make for fairly good dramatic reveals... overall, I'd rank this one just below The Incredibles. Megamind is more popcorn-y, Incredibles is more poignant. Also, only one has Samuel L. "Bad Mother****er" Jackson looking for his super suit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2qRDMHbXaM). While his (in-character) wife is trying to keep his priorities on their relationship. That, and Edna Mode (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBfb77G47hU).

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, you can't beat Edna.

[Brother Oni]

Megamind was mainly about a Silver Age villain meeting a Bronze Age 'hero' and the resulting clash of comic book cultures.

After Metroman faked his death, how much damage did Megamind really do? About the worst thing he did was destroy the Metroman museum and even then, he made sure everyone was out (he could have left Bernard or Roxanne in there or did it during the day instead of late at night with nobody about).

The issue of Metroman not coming back to defend Metro City has already been heavily discussed earlier.

[NinjaStylerobot]

He could have done it at ANY time. Two days earlier he could have dismnatled his entire lab, disembodied his minion, his car- and put him into jail!

You know how the movie ends?

"Well, it was nice dancing, but we need to arrest you for 5 life sentences and murder"

This reminds me of Dominic deegan. What if she DIDN"T like the cake. Yes eventually you beat her and made her not a villain but you risked everybody's lives in the process.

How is this different?

The Incredibles is my FAVORITE disney film. It ranks lower for me then walle, but I still love it.

The characters feel real, the villain feels much more realistic AND despicable, and the tone was more serious.

Dispicable me, is not about superherous, its about villainy, and the character FEELS like a villain.

[Fredaintdead]

He could have done it at ANY time. Two days earlier he could have dismnatled his entire lab, disembodied his minion, his car- and put him into jail!

You know how the movie ends?

"Well, it was nice dancing, but we need to arrest you for 5 life sentences and murder"

This reminds me of Dominic deegan. What if she DIDN"T like the cake. Yes eventually you beat her and made her not a villain but you risked everybody's lives in the process.

How is this different?

The Incredibles is my FAVORITE disney film. It ranks lower for me then walle, but I still love it.

The characters feel real, the villain feels much more realistic AND despicable, and the tone was more serious.

Dispicable me, is not about superherous, its about villainy, and the character FEELS like a villain.

With all due respect, you're turning into a broken record here.
YES, Metroman could've come back and stopped everything, but there would be no point to it considering that, in the end, while the characters are not "human" in a physical sense, they are human in an emotional sense. Metroman COULD have come back and stopped everything, but he did not WANT to, because he wanted to live his life the way any other human being would. He was a hero because society wanted him to be, not by choice.

In the end, I just don't think Megamind is the right film for you. You don't like it, but other people do, just accept it. :smallsmile:
I for one am easily pleased and honestly prefer Megamind to The Incredibles, just because I personally find Megamind funnier and more entertaining for me personally. Again, that's my personal opinion, and the opinions of everyone else likely differs from my own, and I'm perfectly okay with that.

[NinjaStylerobot]

Its completely fine relly.

Agree to disagree.

[Nai_Calus]

It's not really a movie intended for deep analysis, it's more one of those fun movies.

I actually liked Metroman's gesture of faith in Megamind. Let him have his Heel-Face Turn and realize his potential.

It was a fun movie. With, yes, PRESENTATION. :smallamused:

[Avilan the Grey]

I liked Despicable Me too, but found it lacking in comparison in some ways. The characters were great, but the setting and how they handled the comicbookish concept of supervillainy just seemed even less fleshed out in Despicable Me than in Megamind which presented a pretty believable (if heavily referencial) comicbook Super-Setting. I'm phrasing that badly, but I know what I mean.

Nitpick: Despicable Me is about Bond Villany, not Super Villany.

[Bhu]

Or Titan

He also acts like an idiot. Acting, stupid, and being an EVIL villain.

What was his point? Is it for us to forget that megamind also causes great harm? That he was content with causing millions of dollars worth of property damage? For us to go "since hes eveiler megamind is OK now"

Yes, technically this makes megamind a "Hero" when he beats him. But megamind is what CAUSED him anyway. Im sure the taxpayers wont mind him saying "Well at least I learned my lesson" as an excuse for everything


So all an all, nothing much. It wasn't awful, but it wasn't the shining bastion people say it is.


COnsider it social commentary on how weak willed and manipulable the public at large is when they perceive themselves to be in danger.

[Sunken Valley]

Megamind=Incredibles. Incredibles is deeper but it fails hard because it has a warped Aesop and tries to make a complete monster and fails.

Seriously, Syndrome does not perform a single evil act on or implied off screen. Just a bunch of edgy neutral ones. Plus, there's the fact that he's a valued member of society performing a decent private sector service.

[Brother Oni]

Seriously, Syndrome does not perform a single evil act on or implied off screen. Just a bunch of edgy neutral ones. Plus, there's the fact that he's a valued member of society performing a decent private sector service.

I'm sorry, what? :smallconfused:

Implied off screen: he lures superheroes to the island and kills them while trying to refine his deathmachine, example of Glazerbeam skeleton.

On screen: fires surface to air missiles at a private jet that's just wandered into range.



Helen: India-Golf-Niner-Niner transmitting in the blind guard, disengage, repeat, *disengage*.
[Releases chaff, begins evasive maneuvers]
Helen: Disengage, repeat, *disengage*!
Helen: Friendlies, at two-zero miles south-southwest of your position, angels ten, track east, disengage, over!
Helen:Disengage, repeat, *disengage*!
[Missiles close in]
Helen: Mayday, mayday, India-Golf-Niner-Niner is buddy spiked! Abort, abort, there are children aboard, say again, there are children aboard this plane!
Helen: Abort, abort, abort!
[the missiles close in]
Helen: Abort abort abort!
[Missiles hit]


All this was broadcast over an open channel. If Syndrome didn't want the jet to go anywhere near, all he had to do was broadcast "Unidentified aircraft, you are entering restricted airspace. Please exit immediately or countermeasures will be deployed".

Now I agree that since he is in international waters, he's perfectly within his rights to fire at the jet, but to not abort the missiles after all that? That's not an 'edgy neutral act' by any means.


Second on-screen: he kidnaps JackJack, who has not exhibited ANY powers before, not even to his parents, so for all intents and purposes, he's kidnapping a normal child.
This is after his plan has been defeated, so he's just doing it for revenge, unless you're advocating that kidnapping your enemy's baby is merely an 'edgy neutral' action.


As for being a valued member of society - I seriously doubt he pays taxes to any country (see international waters comment earlier), so he's certainly not contributing. I could make a comment about how most arms dealers are just middle men, but that's a bit too political for this board, plus Syndrome is selling his own tech not somebody else's.

Syndome isn't a 'monster' on the scale of a serial killer (debatable with his intentional superhero elimination), but he's certainly not neutral.

Edit: I accidentally words

[Traab]

He released a huge killer robot on the city so he could be seen as a hero for destroying it. That was most definitely an evil act. Had his plan worked out properly it wouldnt have ended up puppy eating evil, but even in the best case, there would have been a lot of property damage and potential loss of life before his fake heroics saved the day.

[Mando Knight]

I'm sorry, what? :smallconfused:

Implied off screen: he lures superheroes to the island and kills them while trying to refine his deathmachine, example of Glazerbeam skeleton.

Implied? It's directly stated that he's been killing supers to perfect his Omnidroid design. When Mr. I gets into the mainframe and it flips past the previous versions of the design, it also shows you the score. It isn't pretty.

[Avilan the Grey]

Seriously, Syndrome does not perform a single evil act on or implied off screen. Just a bunch of edgy neutral ones. Plus, there's the fact that he's a valued member of society performing a decent private sector service.

So what you are saying is that you never saw the Incredibles?

Because otherwise you concept of "neutral" (not to mention: Why try to pigeon-hole everything into D&D alignments? They are barely usable IN D&D and worthless everywhere else) is mindboggling, to say the least.

Edit: As stated above Syndrome is a mass-murderer. It is directly stated, on screen.

[NinjaStylerobot]

Mass murderer of retired superheroes. That makes it even worse!

[Brother Oni]

Implied? It's directly stated that he's been killing supers to perfect his Omnidroid design. When Mr. I gets into the mainframe and it flips past the previous versions of the design, it also shows you the score. It isn't pretty.

True, but I wanted to give Sunken Valley the benefit of the doubt since you don't actually see Syndrome or his agents lure the supers, or the robot kill them.
For all we know, half of them could have come to the island to investigate their missing friends (like Elasti-girl) and ran into the automated defences.

I suppose we're running into the limits of the rating, since you can't really show stuff like that (example, Syndrome turning into a fine spray of cooked mince that is then scattered over the neighbourhood).

[NinjaStylerobot]

Are you seriously arguing Syndromes Morality?

He lures mr incredible to the island!

Its implied that he gave them the same shpiel:

"Do you want to be a hero one last time? Just don't tell anybody, Government rules you know"

So the heroes went to investigate their killed friends, and also get killed.

Syndrome is a producer of dangerous weapons, so at the very least his morals are so so.

[Brother Oni]

Are you seriously arguing Syndromes Morality?

Not really. I think he's evil, but I wanted to give a fair and objective assessment of his actions.



Syndrome is a producer of dangerous weapons, so at the very least his morals are so so.

If you're saying that Syndrome has evil morals because he makes dangerous weapons, then I disagree. Weapons are tools, it's how you use them that makes them good or evil, even NBC class ones.

You could argue that his indiscriminate sale of them is immoral, but that's a different issue to his manufacture of them.

[NinjaStylerobot]

If you're saying that Syndrome has evil morals because he makes dangerous weapons, then I disagree. Weapons are tools, it's how you use them that makes them good or evil, even NBC class ones.


It depends on who he sells them to. *Shrug*

We can easily see that Syndrome is a hateful spiteful guy.

[Dienekes]

Syndome isn't a 'monster' on the scale of a serial killer (debatable with his intentional superhero elimination), but he's certainly not neutral.


Actually, he appears to fit the definition of serial killer exactly. Dude was vile, very interesting villain though. Honestly I think he's one of Pixars more memorable characters.

[Hopeless]

Megamind=Incredibles. Incredibles is deeper but it fails hard because it has a warped Aesop and tries to make a complete monster and fails.

Seriously, Syndrome does not perform a single evil act on or implied off screen. Just a bunch of edgy neutral ones. Plus, there's the fact that he's a valued member of society performing a decent private sector service.

You mean other than klling off all of those heroes so he could pull off a staged effort to make himself a hero so he could sell of his inventions and basically destroy everything and anything that would make anyone a hero who actually knew what he had done?

Well that and killing all of those heroes some of whom couldn't have possibly posed any threat at all...

Okay what they said above too!

[bluewind95]

He could have done it at ANY time. Two days earlier he could have dismnatled his entire lab, disembodied his minion, his car- and put him into jail!


In the end, what Metro Man did was better than this. Put Megamind in jail, you're basically ensuring that a man with that much intelligence goes to waste (and could possibly be dangerous). Metro Man believed that Megamind was not really a bad guy, just... kind of obsessed with the whole "hero vs villain" thing. Someone had to break that cycle. Metro Man did it. And he turned out to be right. Megamind was a villain due to circumstances, not due to being a bad guy at heart. So it was a win/win/win situation. Metro Man got the life he always wanted (but was pressured into giving up for a while). Megamind got some meaning to his existence. The city got to keep a hero. I think that the movie gives off a definitive "Find your own path in life and walk it with confidence, becoming as good at it as you can be, and don't let anyone pigeon-hole you into another path" kind of vibe.

[NinjaStylerobot]

and could possibly be dangerous.

:smallannoyed:

This is the Palpatine gambit (This is what Im calling from now on).

Depending on so many things that might not occur, mostly because they depend on the most unpredictable thing ever:

A persons feelings.

Megamind could have SERIOUSLY hurt a bunch of people, if not intentionally then by accident.

And its only because of the PG rating that he didn't.


Metro Man believed that Megamind was not really a bad guy, just... kind of obsessed with the whole "hero vs villain" thing.

Part two of the palpatine gambit:

Knowing things you could not know. Yes technically he could but because there is no screen-time devoted to this its doubtful. Its just fan speculation to fill in a plot hole.

[Tiki Snakes]

:smallannoyed:

This is the Palpatine gambit (This is what Im calling from now on).

Depending on so many things that might not occur, mostly because they depend on the most unpredictable thing ever:

A persons feelings.

Megamind could have SERIOUSLY hurt a bunch of people, if not intentionally then by accident.

And its only because of the PG rating that he didn't.


Considering they specifically had decades of history facing off against each other and far as we know, he never really harmed anyone during it (in typical silver age villain style), it's a pretty reasonable assumption to make that Metro-man had every right to be confident.

[bluewind95]

This is the Palpatine gambit (This is what Im calling from now on).

I'd say a bored genius is more dangerous than a focused one (as long as the focus isn't dangerous in and of itself).




Depending on so many things that might not occur, mostly because they depend on the most unpredictable thing ever:

A persons feelings.

Megamind could have SERIOUSLY hurt a bunch of people, if not intentionally then by accident.

And its only because of the PG rating that he didn't.



So could Metro Man in the defense of the city. OK, so Metro Man could have ended Megamind's threat. In the world of this movie, there are other supervillains waiting to take over too. With Megamind there, well, hey, he had that city covered. But with Megamind gone, a new villain could have taken his place. Could, yes, I know. No certainty. BUT. Metro Man does NOT want to keep being a slave to the people ignoring his own dreams just to do something he's being forced and pressured to do. He's tired of the villain vs hero game. He wants to do his own thing now and retire. But how can he? If he leaves and Megamind leaves, the city is open to new people taking their place and filling in the void left behind (remember. This is not the real world. This is the movie world, where different things take place).

Megamind's whole reason to be a villain is him, and he knows this (more on that later). If Metro Man wants to be free, he needs to break the cycle in such a way, that it will not leave Megamind even more resented and make him even more of a threat than he already is. Locking Megamind away isn't the way to break the cycle: Megamind is STILL playing to the "tropes" of the genre and is a villain that lost to the hero and still forever the villain (and will be planning revenge). So Metro Man breaks the cycle for the BOTH of them. By pretending to be dead, he challenges ALL of Megamind's pre-concieved notions. No, the hero doesn't always win. No, this isn't a game. And yes, this can all change.

Whether or not Metro Man predicted that Megamind would so desperately cling to the "game" that he'd try to make a new Metro Man, that isn't stated. Metro Man believed that Megamind was capable of changing, and apparently his whole gambit was centered on that belief. And Megamind resisted, but in doing so, all he does is cause Metro Man's point (that this was not a game and that things can chance) to be driven home a LOT harder when his created hero turns on him and proves to him that this never was a game, even if he saw it as one (and Metro Man indulged him).



Part two of the palpatine gambit:

Knowing things you could not know. Yes technically he could but because there is no screen-time devoted to this its doubtful. Its just fan speculation to fill in a plot hole.

They grew up together. Metro Man always seemed aloof, but it's hard not to notice that Megamind was awkward, rather than ill-intentioned. Megamind always played villainy like a game, and this was only too evident with mostly-empty threats and whatnot. Having known Megamind all his life, Metro Man would have seen the evolution of this kid who only wanted a path in life where his abilities mattered. Metro Man indulged Megamind in this game for a long time, until he grew up(mentally, too) and tired of a game (which should never have been a game in the first place!) and instead went his own separate way. He was tired of the game, he didn't want to play it anymore and it wasn't even proper TO play that game. So he left, challenging Megamind's whole life perspective, totally breaking the cycle that truly kept Megamind as a villain.

And it worked. Was it risky? Yes! But so was continuing to play this game, while resentment kept growing and the stakes kept escalating. Nor did Metro Man choose to eliminate someone he didn't see as evil in the first place. Instead, Metro Man chose to start his life anew and *also* gave his opponent (someone he knew not to be truly evil) a chance to start anew too and find his true self. You know. Doing a *nice* thing for him, instead of wrecking him and leaving him to rot in jail and never living up to his potential.

[NinjaStylerobot]

I still call it fan speculation to fill a stupid plot hole.

Metro man is an *******.

Because Megamind DID go an rampage, he DID create an almost unstoppable monster.

I still call it the palpatine gambit:

"If hes stupid enough to not go to the advanced tech they have on the planet, survives my deathtraps, and all the stars of dumb align perfectly, I win".

The logic that "Maybe he might turn good/ evil" is bad. I friggin doubt you would do the same thing in that position.

And even BEFORE he came to the revelation, he could have still done it!

Was he just mucking about with peoples lives at stake?

[Xondoure]

Here's a little thought I've been mulling over for a while in regards to superheroes: With great power comes great responsibility, but with ultimate power comes the responsibility of not using it.

Basically one has a moral obligation to help others, and not to abuse the gifts we are given as part of the social contract that we as a people have agreed upon. (for the most part, in our society that contract is rather warped/different but thats getting a bit political.)

But whether or not you agree with the above I'd argue someone who has all of the power cannot be allowed to use it for betterment or harm. Because by doing so they remove all sense of worth, and destroy the illusion of freedom so many hold onto. Stepping away from it all is really the only thing they can do. (Yes the philosophy of superheroes starts to sound awfully religious, that's because they're basically a modern day pantheon. It isn't my intention though.)

So to put it simply: at his core Lex is right, Superman should back away from humanities problems and for the most part he does seeing as he could be ending starvation, destroying political corruption, and ending wars when instead he lives a rather unassuming life as a journalist. And seeing as there is no one on Darksied's level in Megamind, Metroman can simply leave all together.

[bluewind95]

I still call it fan speculation to fill a stupid plot hole.

Not really. It's pretty well-implied by the movie. It's not explicitly said, but it's implied quite a bit.



Metro man is an *******.

Liiittle bit. More on that later.



Because Megamind DID go an rampage, he DID create an almost unstoppable monster.


Yeah, but he went on a rampage pretty often anyways and didn't accumulate a body count. Metro Man likely figured that Megamind would do that: go on a rampage and not accumulate a body count. After all, it was all just a game to Megamind, and if you kill, it stops being a game.



I still call it the palpatine gambit:

"If hes stupid enough to not go to the advanced tech they have on the planet, survives my deathtraps, and all the stars of dumb align perfectly, I win".


If you know the person in question well enough to figure there's a very likely chance that will happen... it's not a dumb thing to think.

Palpatine put a lot more at stake on that gambit. But Metro Man? He and MEgamind were hate-friends since childhood. There was less risk involved that things wouldn't go according to plan here.



The logic that "Maybe he might turn good/ evil" is bad. I friggin doubt you would do the same thing in that position.

Ah, you've hit on a pretty interesting characteristic for Metro Man here. And it is in great part what makes him interesting... more than a typical "perfect" hero would generally be.

He isn't perfect. Yes, yes. Obviously, you say. The thing with Metro Man is that everyone sees him as perfect. He's stated (via an unreliable narrator who only sees what others see and not what's inside of Metro Man's head) to be "perfect". He has a "perfect" life with the "perfect" family and the "perfect" charisma and with "perfect" popularity.

Thing is, Metro Man and Megamind are both "superior" to humans in several ways with their superpowers. These superpowers are everyday stuff for them. They take them for granted...

... And then become TOTALLY irresponsible about it. They don't seem to really notice just what risk they are putting normal people through. For them, it's easy. They do NOT empathize with the true terror and the true issues they're causing for others. As long as they're not killing anyone, they see it as a simple, fun game.



And even BEFORE he came to the revelation, he could have still done it!


He could have. Except that...


Was he just mucking about with peoples lives at stake?

Yes! Yes he was. And so was Megamind. And for a long time, neither saw anything wrong with this. This was how it was "supposed" to be. They were, in an odd way, friends pretending to be enemies... hate-friends. They just played with each other, without really caring what risks they were putting everyone else through because to *them*, it was simple, it was just a little game.

And then Metro Man has this revelation. He isn't this. He wants to follow his own destiny. But what to do? He challenges the ENTIRE status-quo. He knows Megamind sees this as a game too. But this is wrong. It is not a game and should not be seen as one. So he stages his own death, sending a clear, and REALLY harsh message to Megamind "See. You can kill EVEN ME with these things." Megamind continues to see it as a game for a while, assuming his role as the "victor". And then grows bored of it and tries to create a substitute.

THIS is where you see that Metro Man was also just playing with Megamind, the same way Megamind was playing with him. This is where you see that the rivalry between them was nothing but a good-natured frolick, just role-playing. Because with those powers, Metro Man could have been just as dangerous as Megamind's creation. But he wasn't. He could have chosen to end Megamind once and for all. He didn't. And this is what finally drives the point home to Megamind. This should NEVER have been a game. Only then does Megamind take things seriously and only then does he find his own path, the cycle that Metro Man broke finally ended.

[NinjaStylerobot]

You know. I guess im in the wrong crowd.

"having a frolic"

I have nothing to say. Personally I think this logic is bull crap.

Its where you pile on a bunch of crap onto a thing to make it seem deeper then it really is.

If this is having a frolic to both these gods amongst men, then they belong in the greek/ Roman pantheon, not in the pantheon of current times.

This is the palpatine gambit.


It's pretty well-implied by the movie. It's not explicitly said, but it's implied quite a bit.

Tell me where. Outside of "Well nobodies that stupid not to utilize a "I win" button"

[Tiki Snakes]

You're entitled to your opinion, NinjaStylerobot, but I personally believe that bluewind95 pretty much hit it out of the park, there.

Xondoure - Interesting theory, but I'm not sure I can quite ascribe to it myself. The idea of deliberately not fixing things, not doing everything you can do, simply because other people should just doesn't quite ring true for me. It's a great rationalisation for why characters like Superman or Reed Richards of the Fantastic 4 don't simply fix everything (which really should be within their power to do, considering the insane stuff they get up to otherwise), but I don't really think it has a place outside of a meta-reason to maintain a believable status quo so that readers in the real world can more easily empathise with events.

Though there are some interesting parallels to Bioware's Jade Empire morality system (at least how it was explained, rather than how it actually ended up being portrayed in-game). It would certainly be a valid viewpoint for such a powerful character to have, I think it's the idea that it should be the correct route for all such characters that I disagree with.
If someone has the capability and the motivation to end all political corruption in his country, can it really be a bad thing if he does so? Likewise with world hunger, or preventing needless wars?

[Xondoure]

You're entitled to your opinion, NinjaStylerobot, but I personally believe that bluewind95 pretty much hit it out of the park, there.

Xondoure - Interesting theory, but I'm not sure I can quite ascribe to it myself. The idea of deliberately not fixing things, not doing everything you can do, simply because other people should just doesn't quite ring true for me. It's a great rationalisation for why characters like Superman or Reed Richards of the Fantastic 4 don't simply fix everything (which really should be within their power to do, considering the insane stuff they get up to otherwise), but I don't really think it has a place outside of a meta-reason to maintain a believable status quo so that readers in the real world can more easily empathise with events.

Though there are some interesting parallels to Bioware's Jade Empire morality system (at least how it was explained, rather than how it actually ended up being portrayed in-game). It would certainly be a valid viewpoint for such a powerful character to have, I think it's the idea that it should be the correct route for all such characters that I disagree with.
If someone has the capability and the motivation to end all political corruption in his country, can it really be a bad thing if he does so? Likewise with world hunger, or preventing needless wars?

Definitely something that really should be explored in modern day comics more than it is. I mean, they're always trying to set up these big dramatic moral choices for the characters and these huge ones are staring them in the face, only they don't touch them because it would break the status quo and very quickly spiral these worlds away from anything even vaguely similar to our own. Still, after Civil War I had hope, but it looks like Marvel has decided not to continue in that direction after how badly they botched parts of that.

[Traab]

You're entitled to your opinion, NinjaStylerobot, but I personally believe that bluewind95 pretty much hit it out of the park, there.

Xondoure - Interesting theory, but I'm not sure I can quite ascribe to it myself. The idea of deliberately not fixing things, not doing everything you can do, simply because other people should just doesn't quite ring true for me. It's a great rationalisation for why characters like Superman or Reed Richards of the Fantastic 4 don't simply fix everything (which really should be within their power to do, considering the insane stuff they get up to otherwise), but I don't really think it has a place outside of a meta-reason to maintain a believable status quo so that readers in the real world can more easily empathise with events.

Though there are some interesting parallels to Bioware's Jade Empire morality system (at least how it was explained, rather than how it actually ended up being portrayed in-game). It would certainly be a valid viewpoint for such a powerful character to have, I think it's the idea that it should be the correct route for all such characters that I disagree with.
If someone has the capability and the motivation to end all political corruption in his country, can it really be a bad thing if he does so? Likewise with world hunger, or preventing needless wars?

The idea of the super genius superheroes not fixing everything actually makes sense to me. There are a lot of potential layers to it. One of the most basic is that everything they do will effect something else. Often in a horrible way. Lets say reed richards decides to instal some sort of cosmic ray fusion energy generator device in every city in the world, offering unlimited power production for all. Sounds great right? Except now you have a horrific financial upheaval as all electric, natural gas, nuclear, and oil companies start crashing to the dirt due to lack of business. Same for finding alternative fuel sources. OPEC nations would go to war over something like that before they allowed it to be widespread.

Or, lets say they go the stargate route. Reed basically produces a version of that healing hand device, or a safe sarcophagus, and bang, the medical profession starts crashing overnight. Anyone with the intelligence god gives a gnat can use the hand device for 90% of all problems, and the sarcophagus is about as complex as a tanning booth. Suddenly pharmaceutical companies crash and burn, doctors wasted years of their lives learning skills that are no longer needed.

Back to the fusion power plants, how long would it take for one of the countries to weaponize the tech? It would start up yet another arms race as everyone rushes to produce the same world ending weaponry. No, all this talk about how comic book heroes could solve everything is silly. They couldnt. They could solve all the problems that exist at this moment, but that would do nothing more than create an entire new set of problems.

[Xondoure]

The idea of the super genius superheroes not fixing everything actually makes sense to me. There are a lot of potential layers to it. One of the most basic is that everything they do will effect something else. Often in a horrible way. Lets say reed richards decides to instal some sort of cosmic ray fusion energy generator device in every city in the world, offering unlimited power production for all. Sounds great right? Except now you have a horrific financial upheaval as all electric, natural gas, nuclear, and oil companies start crashing to the dirt due to lack of business. Same for finding alternative fuel sources. OPEC nations would go to war over something like that before they allowed it to be widespread.

Or, lets say they go the stargate route. Reed basically produces a version of that healing hand device, or a safe sarcophagus, and bang, the medical profession starts crashing overnight. Anyone with the intelligence god gives a gnat can use the hand device for 90% of all problems, and the sarcophagus is about as complex as a tanning booth. Suddenly pharmaceutical companies crash and burn, doctors wasted years of their lives learning skills that are no longer needed.

Back to the fusion power plants, how long would it take for one of the countries to weaponize the tech? It would start up yet another arms race as everyone rushes to produce the same world ending weaponry. No, all this talk about how comic book heroes could solve everything is silly. They couldnt. They could solve all the problems that exist at this moment, but that would do nothing more than create an entire new set of problems.

Please, you're telling me Reed couldn't find a way to properly distribute resources to the third world so that millions aren't starving to death? Or find a way to reduce greenhouse gasses and save the planet's biodiversity?

And what exactly is wrong about finding cures to diseases. Yes, medicine would collapse but what is that when everyone has all of their basic needs met? There would be no need for jobs outside of deciding policy, fixing the existing tech and expanding the scientific frontier. Yes, capitalism would collapse but once you've proven you can take care of people well enough without it why shouldn't it? Yes there would be problems, but the solution is certainly not failing to fix them because we're afraid we can't fix the next set. What is wrong with utopia? Are we afraid of the events of Brave New World? Then what is wrong with a utopia based around the exploration of intelligent thought and moral responsibility? Or is it the matrix where humanity actually rejects tranquility and seeks out conflict? If so, then there is no danger of stagnation and consider the stories that could be told of dealing with conflict in such a world.

The only reasoning that fully makes sense to me is that in helping the world so much, the one that does so ultimately decides what is right and what is wrong, and that is not a decision that should be made by one person alone. Even then, I fail to see why there aren't heroes who use their powers to help people more than to fight off supernatural threats. A super human peace core if you will. The idea has been touched on, but never fully directed because to do so would tear at the meta foundations that keep the superhero worlds spinning.

[Traab]

Please, you're telling me Reed couldn't find a way to properly distribute resources to the third world so that millions aren't starving to death? Or find a way to reduce greenhouse gasses and save the planet's biodiversity?

And what exactly is wrong about finding cures to diseases. Yes, medicine would collapse but what is that when everyone has all of their basic needs met? There would be no need for jobs outside of deciding policy, fixing the existing tech and expanding the scientific frontier. Yes, capitalism would collapse but once you've proven you can take care of people well enough without it why shouldn't it? Yes there would be problems, but the solution is certainly not failing to fix them because we're afraid we can't fix the next set. What is wrong with utopia? Are we afraid of the events of Brave New World? Then what is wrong with a utopia based around the exploration of intelligent thought and moral responsibility? Or is it the matrix where humanity actually rejects tranquility and seeks out conflict? If so, then there is no danger of stagnation and consider the stories that could be told of dealing with conflict in such a world.

The only reasoning that fully makes sense to me is that in helping the world so much, the one that does so ultimately decides what is right and what is wrong, and that is not a decision that should be made by one person alone. Even then, I fail to see why there aren't heroes who use their powers to help people more than to fight off supernatural threats. A super human peace core if you will. The idea has been touched on, but never fully directed because to do so would tear at the meta foundations that keep the superhero worlds spinning.


But they do, I dimly recall seeing clips of superheroes doing things like stop forest fires, drop off emergency supplies, help evacuations from natural disasters. All things unconnected with supervillains. Iirc, there was an episode of justice league where an island volcano was going to erupt, and the league showed up to help evacuate the place. Sure doomsday turned up and had a lava fight with superman, but the original focus was a humanitarian effort on the part of the league.

[Xondoure]

But they do, I dimly recall seeing clips of superheroes doing things like stop forest fires, drop off emergency supplies, help evacuations from natural disasters. All things unconnected with supervillains. Iirc, there was an episode of justice league where an island volcano was going to erupt, and the league showed up to help evacuate the place. Sure doomsday turned up and had a lava fight with superman, but the original focus was a humanitarian effort on the part of the league.

All I'm saying is that this aspect is never fully explored, and taken to its logical extreme quickly leads away from anything resembling modern day earth. I mean just look at the technology involved, why hasn't at least some of it trickled down to every day distribution?

The easy answer is because they don't intend it to be used that way, and the above is the only explanation I see holding that up.

[Traab]

All I'm saying is that this aspect is never fully explored, and taken to its logical extreme quickly leads away from anything resembling modern day earth. I mean just look at the technology involved, why hasn't at least some of it trickled down to every day distribution?

The easy answer is because they don't intend it to be used that way, and the above is the only explanation I see holding that up.

Meh, easier answer is its boring to see in a comic. Who would want to read a 6 part comic miniseries of tony stark trying to integrate his power plants and other technology into common use around the world? Even the stuff I mentioned is more quick blurbs. A few panels here and there, or a couple seconds of screen time before they move on to the real threat of the episode or issue.

[Dr.Epic]

Well what your left with is another cliche. Its not hard to do:

Not really. Technically every idea and concept has been done before. Just because there are previous examples doesn't make it cliche. It's a standard trope.

[Xondoure]

Meh, easier answer is its boring to see in a comic. Who would want to read a 6 part comic miniseries of tony stark trying to integrate his power plants and other technology into common use around the world? Even the stuff I mentioned is more quick blurbs. A few panels here and there, or a couple seconds of screen time before they move on to the real threat of the episode or issue.

Why would it necessarily be boring? Okay its not people bashing other people's heads in, but that hasn't been all comics are for a very long time. And as non violent plots go I think this one is better than most. It would certainly be less painful to read than all of the contrived drama they can pack into these characters.

[Traab]

Why would it necessarily be boring? Okay its not people bashing other people's heads in, but that hasn't been all comics are for a very long time. And as non violent plots go I think this one is better than most. It would certainly be less painful to read than all of the contrived drama they can pack into these characters.

Because comics are about drama and conflict. More immediate like, "Solve this mystery or poison will be released in gotham." Or, "Figure out the bad guys plan or luthor will be president." Reading a story on stark dealing with the senate trying to shut down his intentions to gift all countries with unlimited power is interesting from a political standpoint, but as a comic for 12 year old kids to read? I think they would prefer lasers and fistfights.

[Xondoure]

Because comics are about drama and conflict. More immediate like, "Solve this mystery or poison will be released in gotham." Or, "Figure out the bad guys plan or luthor will be president." Reading a story on stark dealing with the senate trying to shut down his intentions to gift all countries with unlimited power is interesting from a political standpoint, but as a comic for 12 year old kids to read? I think they would prefer lasers and fistfights.

Why not both? I can see it now:

Iron Man: Activist
Iron Man vs. the SENATRON! In this spectacular new series!

[Tiki Snakes]

Because comics are about drama and conflict. More immediate like, "Solve this mystery or poison will be released in gotham." Or, "Figure out the bad guys plan or luthor will be president." Reading a story on stark dealing with the senate trying to shut down his intentions to gift all countries with unlimited power is interesting from a political standpoint, but as a comic for 12 year old kids to read? I think they would prefer lasers and fistfights.

That's why you weave it into the background across an entire year or something, culminating in an Event as something goes wrong or something attempts to thwart it in a supervillainous way or it simply backfires epically.

But they won't because they need to keep the world generally close to the real world. I sometimes wish they'd all start a seperate line where the characters actually aged and realistic consequences (especially regarding tech) are examined more legitimately, but outside of Fan Fiction it's just never going to happen.

[Iruka]

slightly relevant :smalltongue:

http://www.alanhoyle.com/comics/calvin_bat-fax.png

[Whiffet]

Ah, Megamind. I thought it was enjoyable. Not a classic, but still fun to watch.

As for the fans-filling-plot-holes you think is going on, well, this is the first time I've even looked at a thread on the internet about this movie. I watched once, thought about it no more than I usually do when I think a movie was moderately enjoyable, and haven't talked to anyone about it since. I completely agree with everything said by bluewind95. That's everything I thought about the movie while I was watching it. It's fine if you don't agree, but please at least accept that it's reasonable for people to interpret it that way.

[Soralin]

Why would it necessarily be boring? Okay its not people bashing other people's heads in, but that hasn't been all comics are for a very long time. And as non violent plots go I think this one is better than most. It would certainly be less painful to read than all of the contrived drama they can pack into these characters.
So, something like this? :)
http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110713.gif (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2305#comic)

[Xondoure]

Yes exactly that, with added moral implications of those choices, how it would effect society as a whole, and without the obvious plot hole of having an idealized society that treats the citizen most responsible for that change like dirt.

[Brother Oni]

You know. I guess im in the wrong crowd.

"having a frolic"

I have nothing to say. Personally I think this logic is bull crap.

Its where you pile on a bunch of crap onto a thing to make it seem deeper then it really is.

If this is having a frolic to both these gods amongst men, then they belong in the greek/ Roman pantheon, not in the pantheon of current times.


So why start a thread to discuss a topic when you're not interested in entertaining any viewpoint that's different to your own? :smallconfused:

Megamind is a comic book movie, with all the conventions that entails. In particular, it's a Silver Age comic book movie, where it keeps a light hearted tone all the way through and most of the seriousness out.

[NinjaStylerobot]

So why start a thread to discuss a topic when you're not interested in entertaining any viewpoint that's different to your own? :smallconfused:

I heard that this movie was great, and i found out why other people liked it.

I dont think its correct, but whatever.

[Rockphed]

Why would it necessarily be boring? Okay its not people bashing other people's heads in, but that hasn't been all comics are for a very long time. And as non violent plots go I think this one is better than most. It would certainly be less painful to read than all of the contrived drama they can pack into these characters.

Hey, all the contrived drama you want can be packed into an arc or two of "Wolverine goes off to cut down trees and stop a fire." Or "The Hulk decided to brood in the middle of the Czech Republic during a war. Fun happens."

[Xondoure]

Hey, all the contrived drama you want can be packed into an arc or two of "Wolverine goes off to cut down trees and stop a fire." Or "The Hulk decided to brood in the middle of the Czech Republic during a war. Fun happens."

True, that part really is inescapable.

[Axolotl]

Because comics are about drama and conflict. More immediate like, "Solve this mystery or poison will be released in gotham." Or, "Figure out the bad guys plan or luthor will be president." Reading a story on stark dealing with the senate trying to shut down his intentions to gift all countries with unlimited power is interesting from a political standpoint, but as a comic for 12 year old kids to read? I think they would prefer lasers and fistfights.I just want to point out that 12 year olds don't read comics anymore, or at least they're a negligable demographic.

Also you can still have characters change the world while keeping action. I mean The Authority was all about stripped down high-octane superfights but they still found time to free Tibet and knock over third world dictators in their spare time.

[Brother Oni]

Also you can still have characters change the world while keeping action. I mean The Authority was all about stripped down high-octane superfights but they still found time to free Tibet and knock over third world dictators in their spare time.

And for a more cynical view of superheroes in politics, and satirical look at superheroes in general, you've got The Boys.

I suspected that if somebody other than Garth Ennis was writing it, it would be a really interesting deconstruction of the impact of superheroes on the real world.

[Karoht]

The film? Yeah, I'd be more generous and call it a 7, but that's just me. How to Train Your Dragon had moments of a perfect 10 with a background hum of an 8. Very solid film, that one.



I meant just go super fast, destroy ALL of megaminds work, and all his stuff (Since he knew where he was), and then lock him up. He could have done this at ANY TIME.Meh. This seems to be a superhero/supervillain trope in the comics. Superman has superhearing and xray vision and can move superfast. He can check in on Lex Luthor's next evil plot at any time. Never does.

As for Metroman VS Megamind, notice how seriously Megamind took the rivalry? I've had plenty of rivals in my time, some of them I could have just ended by not playing anymore. I didn't. Part of me enjoyed ther rivalry and competition, even if I didn't enjoy the person.

Also, Defeat comes in many shades. He was able to consistantly defeat Megamind, perhaps he just didn't feel the need to end it as absolutely as he could have.
Then one day it stopped being cool, so he did end it. Yes, he very much ended it the 'wrong' way, but he ended it.

Between the trope and some personal experience, I can dig it. At least, I understand it enough for me to enjoy the film without this detracting from it.
And don't forget, it is a kids film, not that this is any kind of real justification.

[NinjaStylerobot]

Also, Defeat comes in many shades. He was able to consistantly defeat Megamind, perhaps he just didn't feel the need to end it as absolutely as he could have.
Then one day it stopped being cool, so he did end it. Yes, he very much ended it the 'wrong' way, but he ended it.


Then Metroman is a jerk monster.

He could have stopped the destruction of property (And potential harm to many) at any time yet didn't.

[Devonix]

Actually just flying in there superfast and completely invalidating Megamind's reason for being would have been the Jerkass monster thing to do. He doesn't do that.

The rivalry between them was important to not just Megamind it was important to the city itself. They found their identity through the struggle.

Metroman just outgrew it.