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Urist
2012-03-03, 08:17 PM
Hello all!

I've been building a new character for an IRL game coming up soon, and have decided to scorn my usual caster and psion shenanigans and attempt to build a swordsman. However, I also didn't want to do a traditional two handed or two-weapon fighting build, I wanted to build a fencer, a duelist! As 3.5 lends little support to the idea, I decided to turn to homebrew, and found Neo Seraphi's wonderfully constructed Duelist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12233055&postcount=1), which seemed perfect for my endeavors.

The game is going to be starting at level 6, with a 38 point buy and WBL yet to be determined. Flaws are all good, all 3.5 sources are allowed, and I've also gotten Agile Riposte, out of the d20 Modern srd, allowed. It allows an AoO against a character who misses an attack roll on the Duelist, which is oh so delicious when combined with Clever Knockdown and the ability to pump out AoO's.

Thus far, the character build I've set up looks like this:

38 point buy

Human

Strength-14
Dexterity-14
Constitution-14
Intelligence 18(19 after stat increase at 4)
Wisdom 10
Charisma 10

Feats:
1st-Combat Expertise
Human-Dodge
Bonus(Duelist)-Combat Reflexes
Flaw-Improved Trip-(Need to decide what flaws to take for these two. Ones probably going to be Shaky, but not sure about the other).
Flaw-Power Attack-
3rd-Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Kaorti Resin Rapier)
Bonus(Duelist)-Karmic Strike
6th-Agile Riposte
Bonus 6th-Weapon Finesse
Weapon of choice is a +1 Rapier. Ideally, game plan right now is to use Karmic Strike to provoke AoO's if an enemy hits, Agile Riposte if they don't, and trip them, using the AoO from Improved Trip to hit them while they're down, after full attacking or Stramazzone'ing them. Power Attack if they're big and lumbering, considering that on crits(which become more and more likely as this build progresses), the ratio ends up being 4-to-1 trade on to-hit for damage.

What can I do to progress from here? Obviously, this guy will suffer at range, which could be a problem, and thing's which aren't trippable will be painful. Any advice, Playground? I need this guy to be fairly competitive, not ubercharger good, but able to keep up in combat with a fairly well built Warblade, if not in terms of raw damage, in usefulness.

Seharvepernfan
2012-03-04, 07:38 AM
I don't have any advice on your build, but you really need to say "Stramazzpwning".

Urist
2012-03-04, 11:31 AM
How could I have possibly missed that beautiful pun? Thank you much good sir, that suggestion is just as valuable as a piece of build advice.

Randomguy
2012-03-04, 12:12 PM
If your strength is 14 and your dex is 14, weapon finesse gives you no benefit. None at all.
If strength is 14 and dex is 16, then you get a +1 to hit. Not great.
Weapon finesse isn't such a great idea unless you can get a huge increase to dexterity.

See if you can get a wand of keen edge until you pick up improved critical.

When you can afford it, get a +1 sweeping gauntlet, for a bonus to trip. Sadly, you can't put the sweeping enchantment on your rapier, since you can only trip with a few weapons and with unarmed strike.

Armbands of might also give you a bonus to trip attempts.

Get weapon enchantments that activate on critical hits, especially those that still work on creatures that are immune to critical hits.

Defensive throw is a feat with some harsh prereq's but if you can meet them then you can trip people who miss, as well as those who hit.

Urist
2012-03-04, 12:26 PM
Weapon Finesse is going to be more useful later, as pumping Dex gets me to hit, AC, Initiative, and AoO's, and I thus plan to buff it later. For now, Strength is only as high as it is to allow for power attack, and beyond that is functionally useless.

As of right now, due to Agile Riposte, I do get an AoO on anyone who misses, which Clever Knockdown allows to be turned into a trip attempt. So Defensive Throw is redundant, unfortunately.

Thanks for the gear advice. Any good way to get UMD on class skills list so I can activate such a wand?

Keld Denar
2012-03-04, 12:47 PM
Magical Training would treat you as a wizard 1 with regards to activating wands, which is perfect. No UMD needed. I'd actually look at getting a wand of Whirling Blade and putting it in the wand chamber of your Rapier. That will give you a ranged attack out to 60 feet, and since it is treated as a melee attack, you benefit from all of your fancy melee abilities.

Urist
2012-03-04, 02:29 PM
Unfortunately, Whirling blade is slashing only, although I might see if I can convince my DM to allow it for piercing. Magical Training is great, although I'm not sure whether regional feats will be kosher or not. Any back up ideas?

OracleofSilence
2012-03-04, 02:43 PM
Its not strictly speaking a duelist, and is incredibly feat intensive, but have you considered using a modified Killer Gnome?

Get small (via cheap magic and magic items) and get HUGE benefits from it.

the link: The Killer Gnome (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872846/I_May_Be_Tiny,_But_Youre_Dead:_the_other,_melee_Ki ller_Gnome,_for_your_pleasure.)

Uses mainly Races of teh Wild and is a very finesse based melee fighter.

Urist
2012-03-04, 03:03 PM
Unfortunately, I'm pretty invested in the Duelist class linked to up top. Thank you though!

Blackadam
2013-01-11, 05:06 PM
i started this tread so i can get input on my duelist
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14512775#post14512775

i have yet to decide a race i'm trying to find in a book a half-nymp class i saw online i like if i cant i'm probably gonna go with drow or gray elf have to see if i'm willing to pay more than 2 lvl adjustment for the race :/