Creature type vs alter self

[Sargon Aretaeus]

hi,

I'm working on an ex-human vampire spawn PC out of (LM) and i'm thinking about going for monk/tattooed monk out of (CW) and gaining alter self with the chameleon tattoo. I'm not sure if my PC is just a medium undead humanoid creature or if hes a medium augmented/monstrous humanoid like it says in (MM1) as far as knowing what i can alter into because alter self seems heavily restricted to base creature type. I'm wondering because I dont know if I could alter self into a full vampire; obviously he'd be without special abilities/etc. as described by alter self's description, but would he be pure none the less?

If you could help me figure out my exact creature type ,and if able, the restrictions of altering into creature/monster templates, like vampire, which can be spread across a large range of base creatures (because i dont know if 'same creature type' is the entire type or something like MTG where only one part of say..."Artifact, Wall" needs to match the spells description to apply.

thanks.

[candycorn]

Your creature Type is: Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType).
You have the Subtypes: Augmented (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#augmentedSubtypeAugmented) Humanoid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType), Human.

Hope this helps. There's no SRD link to the Human subtype, but it is a listed subtype in the SRD, under the Ranger Favored Enemy selections, and is referenced in other books (Races of Destiny, Magic of Incarnum, Dragon Magic, etc).

[Sargon Aretaeus]

ok. In that case am I able to 'augment self' into straight undead humanoids or creatures that are undead and/or humanoids? Im more or less wondering, size permitting, would having undead as my creature type allow me to augment myself into a vampire...dragon, kobold? Or is it more of a "undead humanoid" only? even though humanoid is, as you say, a subtype?

thanks

p.s.

if i can 'augment self' my vampire spawn/tattooed monk PC into a vampire, would the vampires natural armor bonus of +6 stack with my +3 from vampire spawn?

[candycorn]

Ok, to answer...

Alter self only cares about your Type. That type is Undead. Therefore, you may turn into any Undead creature, provided it meets the other criteria for alter self.

Those criteria are: within one size category of your normal form.
Max HD of your caster level (Max 5).
cannot have a template.

So you cannot turn into a vampire dragon or kobold, because that would be a templated creature (Dragon or Kobold with the Vampire template applied).

[Sargon Aretaeus]

ok, so to my knowledge that leaves:

Wights
Ghasts
Ghouls
Shadows
Allips
Lacedons (couldn't find in source books.)

because you cant just scale down a more powerful undead creature, yea? That leaves my other question of if i augment into a creature like a wight with +4 Natural AC, does that stack with my vampire spawn +3 Natural AC? The way they word it it sounds as though it just changes and doesn't stack, but i wasn't sure because i know natural AC to be one of few things that can stack. Similar situation with usable feats. it sounds like you only get the few feats the creature gives plus its way of travel and none of your original, unless they are supernatural abilities from the class allowing you to augment. Does the natural AC stack? Can you still use all your old feats, or just the class' allowing you to augment?

thanks again

[candycorn]

ok, so to my knowledge that leaves:

Wights
Ghasts
Ghouls
Shadows
Allips
Lacedons (couldn't find in source books.)

because you cant just scale down a more powerful undead creature, yea? That leaves my other question of if i augment into a creature like a wight with +4 Natural AC, does that stack with my vampire spawn +3 Natural AC? The way they word it it sounds as though it just changes and doesn't stack, but i wasn't sure because i know natural AC to be one of few things that can stack. Correct answer bolded.

Similar situation with usable feats. it sounds like you only get the few feats the creature gives plus its way of travel and none of your original, unless they are supernatural abilities from the class allowing you to augment. Does the natural AC stack? Can you still use all your old feats, or just the class' allowing you to augment?You keep your feats, and do not gain the new form's feats.

[Sargon Aretaeus]

"You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities, natural armor bonus, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities. A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks than normal."

what is this referring to then?

"you acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind." then it goes on to say Physical qualities include >>> racial bonus feats. So?

[candycorn]

"You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities, natural armor bonus, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities. A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks than normal."

what is this referring to then?

"you acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind." then it goes on to say Physical qualities include >>> racial bonus feats. So?

Racial Bonus feats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#feats) are feats marked in the SRD/other sources with a superscript "B".

For an example, look at the Pixie. Alertness is a normal feat. Dodge and Weapon Finesse are Racial Bonus Feats.

[mikau013]

Racial Bonus feats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm#feats) are feats marked in the SRD/other sources with a superscript "B".

For an example, look at the Pixie. Alertness is a normal feat. Dodge and Weapon Finesse are Racial Bonus Feats.

This is wrong. Those marked by a "B" are bonus feats not racial bonus feats. Racial bonus feats are the ones that humans for example gain.

But wasn't alter self errata'd to not grant those anymore? I can't access the srd right now to check though :(

[candycorn]

This is wrong. Those marked by a "B" are bonus feats not racial bonus feats. Racial bonus feats are the ones that humans for example gain.

But wasn't alter self errata'd to not grant those anymore? I can't access the srd right now to check though :(

They are bonus feats, granted by virtue of a creature's race entry. That makes them Racial Bonus Feats, as opposed to bonuse feats granted by class, spell, or other source.

The SRD generally has the most up-to-date errata.

Evidence:
•Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats.
Note the entry. It refers to these feats as racial, and as bonus feats. Contrast the human entry, which does neither.

[Jack_Simth]

ok, so to my knowledge that leaves:

Wights
Ghasts
Ghouls
Shadows
Allips
Lacedons (couldn't find in source books.)

Actually, no. Alter Self doesn't let you take on incorporeal forms.So the Shadows and Allips are out. I'm not familiar with Lacedons.

You could, of course, Alter Self into a different Vampire Spawn, which will let you look like any medium humanoid you want (although you're still a Vampire Spawn).

[mikau013]

They are bonus feats, granted by virtue of a creature's race entry. That makes them Racial Bonus Feats, as opposed to bonuse feats granted by class, spell, or other source.

The SRD generally has the most up-to-date errata.

Evidence:
Note the entry. It refers to these feats as racial, and as bonus feats. Contrast the human entry, which does neither.

Sorry I guess I wasn't clear. I'll try to explain better. The feats in the MM marked with a "B" are bonus feats, feats that they gain beyond leveling and that you don't need to meet requirements for (unless specifically stated).
Examples of these feats would be the ones a pixie gains, or a 10th level rogue or a cleric with the war domain etc.

The human entry is a racial bonus feat, though one explicitly stated you need to meet the requirements for:


A human character also gets a bonus feat at 1st level, chosen by the player. This feat can be of any feat for which the character qualifies.

[Flickerdart]

Lacedons are Aquatic Ghouls.