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Calanon
2012-03-04, 03:38 AM
This is something I've always wanted to try as a Wizard, which is pretend to be a Cleric :smallwink:

What are common spells that Clerics and Wizards share that a Cleric will cast everyday? Any similarities between the Class will be a great and wonderful help :smallbiggrin:

Atcote
2012-03-04, 03:49 AM
A suspiciously focus-shaped holy symbol may help, depending on the edition. A way to 'fake' making food and water, which I think is only a cleric ability, by, say, teleporting it out of another area may be helpful.

Elemental
2012-03-04, 03:52 AM
A useful point to remember, is that it should be relatively easy to fool your average person. Particularly if you're in a remote area with few, if any, clerics or wizards.

Another wizard or cleric, of course, would be aware almost instantly. If not, then it should only take a few observations to them to be sure.

TuggyNE
2012-03-04, 06:19 AM
I seem to remember a feat called False Casting, which you could combine with wands and sleight of hand to supplement your "cleric" spells.

Also I believe there are some sorc-only spells that actually heal.

Elemental
2012-03-04, 06:32 AM
Perhaps some information as to who you are actually trying to fool will help us work out how much effort you're going to have to put into your act.

PersonMan
2012-03-04, 06:32 AM
I seem to remember a feat called False Casting, which you could combine with wands and sleight of hand to supplement your "cleric" spells.

Also I believe there are some sorc-only spells that actually heal.

Claim to have an obscure ACF have made a pact with your deity to forsake healing spells of all kinds in exchange for access to different types of clerical magic.

Or just take that feat where you burn a slot to heal HP equal to its level and claim to always roll badly.

Acanous
2012-03-04, 06:33 AM
if you are a Master Specialist (Conjuration) the Expanded Spellbook class feature allows you to add any (Conjuration) spell of appropriate level to your spellbook. Cure X Wounds spells are (Conjuration).
Planar Binding can fake Planar Ally if you call something of the same alignment.

Circle of Protection from Alignment is one example of a shared spell both would cast frequently.

Murphy80
2012-03-04, 06:38 AM
In 3.5 take Arcane Disciple and the healing domain. Now you can cast healing spells, and only clerics cast those (and rangers, and druids, and paladins, and...).

Mastikator
2012-03-04, 04:27 PM
Wear typical cleric outfit, being a wizard doesn't exclude being deeply religious, so if that's possible then it helps.
You'll have to make excuses when people are wondering why you don't cast cure wounds though.

Calanon
2012-03-04, 04:59 PM
Perhaps some information as to who you are actually trying to fool will help us work out how much effort you're going to have to put into your act.

In the Campaign I'm in Arcane magic is illegal and I really hate being chased by town guards, thrown in jail and having to plan an escape route without magic so why not pretend to be a divine caster?


A suspiciously focus-shaped holy symbol may help, depending on the edition. A way to 'fake' making food and water, which I think is only a cleric ability, by, say, teleporting it out of another area may be helpful.

I killed a Cleric and stole his Holy Symbol just for this very reason and as for creating food and water I already got that covered from another thread.


Wear typical cleric outfit, being a wizard doesn't exclude being deeply religious, so if that's possible then it helps.
You'll have to make excuses when people are wondering why you don't cast cure wounds though.

Stole a Clerics clothes... Murdered him as well :smallbiggrin:



Claim to have an obscure ACF have made a pact with your deity to forsake healing spells of all kinds in exchange for access to different types of clerical magic.

Or just take that feat where you burn a slot to heal HP equal to its level and claim to always roll badly.

I can claim to have taken Blasphemous Incantations and True Daylight and have my party be mad at me for taking 2 crappy ACF :smalltongue:

and just NO at Arcane Toughness... just... no...

Hey look at that first couple comments and already ingenious ideas :biggrin:

Bavarian itP
2012-03-04, 05:04 PM
In the Campaign I'm in Arcane magic is illegal



I killed a Cleric and stole his Holy Symbol just for this very reason



Stole a Clerics clothes... Murdered him as well

Suddenly, I like the laws in this place.

Calanon
2012-03-04, 05:38 PM
Suddenly, I like the laws in this place.

He got the idea from Dragon Age pretty kick ass really... They do have Wizards that aren't like me... but those Wizards have limited choices towards spells (No Conjuration, Necromancy, No Evocations, limited Transmutation, Abjurations by Andraste's grace they matter as well just castrate the Wizards...)

Any who If my cover is blown as a Cleric I'll be executed :smallbiggrin: so yeah (Cross Class skills in Bluff and Disguise! gotta love it) thankfully my snake familiar gives +3 bluff and the cleric outfit I stole is from a Cleric that worships Asmodeus (So yeah Snakes are good to have on my person)

JackMage666
2012-03-04, 05:43 PM
...wait, so the law is totally cool with you being a Cleric of the Lord of the Nine Hells, but cast an arcane spell and you get hung? Their priorities may be eschewed...

TuggyNE
2012-03-04, 05:52 PM
...wait, so the law is totally cool with you being a Cleric of the Lord of the Nine Hells, but cast an arcane spell and you get hung? Their priorities may be eschewed...

That was my exact reaction! This place sounds pretty crazy :smalltongue:

Calanon
2012-03-04, 05:54 PM
...wait, so the law is totally cool with you being a Cleric of the Lord of the Nine Hells, but cast an arcane spell and you get hung? Their priorities may be eschewed...

They justify it as "No power should be greater then that of the serpents" and since Arcane magic can literally do just about everything that Clerical Magic can do (and in some cases much better) they've outlawed it and made it punishable by death Hell in some extreme cases a Cabal of Wizards (With some aid from the Cult of Orcus) went out of there way to perform a ritual that would summon Orcus to the plane to take down the Church of The Serpent, unfortunately the attempt failed due to a raid by the Church... He was very descriptive with the campaigns history, He's been planning for this campaign for years (Way before he met me) Ah well... But soon with the Aid of the Abyss the Wizards will regain there freedom... Or so they think... :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Incredible Hulk is on so I'll be back when that is over :smallbiggrin:

Madara
2012-03-04, 06:05 PM
if you are a Master Specialist (Conjuration) the Expanded Spellbook class feature allows you to add any (Conjuration) spell of appropriate level to your spellbook. Cure X Wounds spells are (Conjuration).
Planar Binding can fake Planar Ally if you call something of the same alignment.

Circle of Protection from Alignment is one example of a shared spell both would cast frequently.

Errata nerfed the Expanded Spellbook. Its only From Sorc/Wiz list now.

Randomguy
2012-03-04, 07:55 PM
Wield a skillful mace (complete arcane), which gives you a cleric's BAB and automatic proficiency.

There's an ACF in complete champion that lets you swap the bonus feats you get for the ability to use domain granted powers (but it doesn't actually let you cast the domain spells). Use this to pick up some of Asmodus' domains.

Claim your spellbook is a prize you took from murdering a wizard.

Get more snakes, so it looks like you're surrounding yourself with them rather than just having one that you favour.

This is for 3.5, right?

Calanon
2012-03-04, 08:26 PM
Wield a skillful mace (complete arcane), which gives you a cleric's BAB and automatic proficiency.

There's an ACF in complete champion that lets you swap the bonus feats you get for the ability to use domain granted powers (but it doesn't actually let you cast the domain spells). Use this to pick up some of Asmodus' domains.

Claim your spellbook is a prize you took from murdering a wizard.

Get more snakes, so it looks like you're surrounding yourself with them rather than just having one that you favour.

This is for 3.5, right?

Gotcha. Skillful Heavy Mace, Already thought of that ACF and I can't devote myself to Asmodeus for his domains (I already asked my DM on this), the Trophy Spellbook is a brilliant idea, and I won't be staying in the same place for longer then a few days so I wouldn't really need a dozen snakes just to make myself seem more convincing :smallconfused: besides that would attract attention to me which I'm trying to avoid.

Needless to say your comment was phenomenally helpful and yes this is 3.5 :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I'm looking over the Orcus (http://horrorsoftheabyss.wikidot.com/orcus-demon-prince-of-the-undead) that my DM showed me and... him being summoned destroys the world... and I mean like COMPLETELY destroys the world to the point where even the Undead (Sentient or Otherwise) fine it inhospitable... Gotta hand it to Dicefreak... They really know how to annihilate the world... :smallamused:

Lysander
2012-03-05, 12:48 AM
Basically, you have to avoid casting spells in front of...

A) Actual clerics
B) Anyone with ranks in Knowledge Religion or Arcana, since those should probably allow for a roll to recognize the type of magic
C) Anyone with ranks in Spellcraft

Nobody else should have any way of knowing the difference, as long as you have a holy symbol and avoid doing anything blatantly wizardly. Depending how common illegal arcane casters are, the police may or may not study these fields as a standard precaution in order to catch them.

Likewise, you should put a lot of points into Knowledge Religion. Bluffing will be easier if you know the right lies.

It would probably also be wise to take Eschew Materials, since all those weird spell components will give you away. Both if you use them in public, or if someone searchers your possessions.

And I'd see if your DM will increase the DC to recognize your magic as arcane if you take Silent Spell and Still Spell. If they only see the result and not the casting, it might be hard to tell what kind of magic it is even if someone does have the appropriate knowledge or spellcraft ranks.

And no. Do not carry a "tropy spellbook". I wouldn't buy that ruse, and neither should guards. Instead make your spellbook look like a prayer book, thanks to Secret Page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretPage.htm). You can change every page to perfectly copy the text of whatever religious tome you pretend to follow.

Also, summoning fiendish snakes with Summon Monster I is probably a useful trick to convince people of your faith.

Calanon
2012-03-05, 01:28 AM
Basically, you have to avoid casting spells in front of...

A) Actual clerics
B) Anyone with ranks in Knowledge Religion or Arcana, since those should probably allow for a roll to recognize the type of magic
C) Anyone with ranks in Spellcraft

Nobody else should have any way of knowing the difference, as long as you have a holy symbol and avoid doing anything blatantly wizardly. Depending how common illegal arcane casters are, the police may or may not study these fields as a standard precaution in order to catch them.

Likewise, you should put a lot of points into Knowledge Religion. Bluffing will be easier if you know the right lies.

It would probably also be wise to take Eschew Materials, since all those weird spell components will give you away. Both if you use them in public, or if someone searchers your possessions.

And I'd see if your DM will increase the DC to recognize your magic as arcane if you take Silent Spell and Still Spell. If they only see the result and not the casting, it might be hard to tell what kind of magic it is even if someone does have the appropriate knowledge or spellcraft ranks.

And no. Do not carry a "tropy spellbook". I wouldn't buy that ruse, and neither should guards. Instead make your spellbook look like a prayer book, thanks to Secret Page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretPage.htm). You can change every page to perfectly copy the text of whatever religious tome you pretend to follow.

Also, summoning fiendish snakes with Summon Monster I is probably a useful trick to convince people of your faith.

What Brilliant, Blatant, Blasphemous ideas you are the best at bastardizing the line between arcane and divine both completely obliterating, brightening and enlightening me to blessed ways to hide my benign art.

Lysander
2012-03-05, 01:50 AM
Also a major worry for you is Detect Magic, since pretty much anyone can cast it and it can give you away as arcane.

But look at this line in the spell:
"Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras."

So try to get some incredibly powerful divine magic item, so it can hopefully mask any arcane auras on you.

If you can't do that though, Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) can hide your arcane auras. Of course, then someone might wonder why you don't have a divine aura, if they see you using magic. It also costs 50gp per casting. So Nondection is mostly for when you expect Detect Magic, and don't want people to recognize you as a wizard, but you aren't trying to pass as a cleric either. Are ok being a cleric with no trace of recent magic on them.

What's more versatile is Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm), since it can make your arcane items seem either non-magical or divine. You can also cast divine spells auras on non-magical items.

KillianHawkeye
2012-03-05, 02:27 AM
Also a major worry for you is Detect Magic, since pretty much anyone can cast it and it can give you away as arcane.

But look at this line in the spell:
"Magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may distort or conceal weaker auras."

So try to get some incredibly powerful divine magic item, so it can hopefully mask any arcane auras on you.

If you can't do that though, Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) can hide your arcane auras. Of course, then someone might wonder why you don't have a divine aura, if they see you using magic. It also costs 50gp per casting. So Nondection is mostly for when you expect Detect Magic, and don't want people to recognize you as a wizard, but you aren't trying to pass as a cleric either. Are ok being a cleric with no trace of recent magic on them.

What's more versatile is Magic Aura (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicAura.htm), since it can make your arcane items seem either non-magical or divine. You can also cast divine spells auras on non-magical items.

Actually, detect magic won't differentiate between arcane and divine. It only detects magical auras and, with study, the school of magic that caused it. Since both divine and arcane casters have access to all schools of magic, knowing that won't help say if the spell was arcane or divine. Similarly, the magic aura spell doesn't project an arcane or divine aura, just a magical aura.

There's no discernable difference between a wand of cure light wounds created by a cleric and one created by a bard. (Speaking of which, I've always wanted to try this using a bard instead of a wizard, since they already have healing and more importantly, glibness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glibness.htm).)

Calanon
2012-03-05, 02:54 AM
Actually, detect magic won't differentiate between arcane and divine. It only detects magical auras and, with study, the school of magic that caused it. Since both divine and arcane casters have access to all schools of magic, knowing that won't help say if the spell was arcane or divine. Similarly, the magic aura spell doesn't project an arcane or divine aura, just a magical aura.

There's no discernable difference between a wand of cure light wounds created by a cleric and one created by a bard. (Speaking of which, I've always wanted to try this using a bard instead of a wizard, since they already have healing and more importantly, glibness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glibness.htm).)

Ironically Bards are titled as "Wild Children" they pay a tithe to the local Church and they don't roll up on there base and exterminate all of them. I thought of pretending to be a bard but I feel that would be harder then pretending to be a Cleric, and I'd have to drop 1/4th my WBL per level so the Church doesn't arrest me :smallfrown:

The "Wild Childrens" guild is a consortium of Bards and other practitioners of the arts, despite the religious doctrine stating that Music and any sort of expression is blasphemous the Wild Childrens guild manages to avoid destruction and execution by paying a monthly tithe of 500gp per member; Unfortunately this is quite costly to most artist and membership is often fairly low. They're rumors that the Wild Childrens guild is a cover for the cult of various demon lords banded together in an attempt to eventually rise up and defeat the Church of Asmodeus but this is often classified as impossible due to the unknown number of spies inside the guild...

quite frightening...

Lysander
2012-03-05, 02:55 AM
Huh, not sure why I thought detect magic let you determine type of magic. Good point.

Hm, what about taking ranks in Perform Oratory? Could be useful for preaching.

Slipperychicken
2012-03-05, 12:39 PM
Take one of the Domain Wizard variants. Now you can pretend to be Divine.

Eidetic Spellcaster (Dragon Mag) to get rid of the Spellbook and familiar.

Eschew Materials to get rid of component pouch.

Focus components... make them look like Divine Foci somehow. Act offended when someone questions your extreme devotion.

At-will item of Nystul's Magic Aura (2,000gp) to hide your auras. For the item itself, either use a 1st level slot, or blow 400gp for a 1/day Nystuls Magic Aura item.

Use Wands because they're more efficient than healing anyway

False Theurgy and Conceal Casting are skill tricks which allow you to pretend to cast different spells than you really are.

Pretend to be an evil cleric, so no one bugs you for healing.

Deepbluediver
2012-03-05, 12:57 PM
This sounds like a fun idea, but I think you are going to run into trouble the first time some one asks you for a healing spell, and it's rapidly going to devolve into a sitcom-like situation where you are trying to explain why your patron diety expressly forbids healing spells in it's dogma and among the "faithful".

I think you'd actually have a much easier time going the other way; play a cleric pretending to be a wizard, since there are quite a few cleric-available spells that mimic various arcane schools or similar effects. (summons, illusions, direct damage, etc).

Coidzor
2012-03-05, 01:02 PM
^:Healing out of combat?

That's the wand's job.


OP: Well, one option would be to pose as a priest of a god of magic.

Or just be a priest of a god of magic. Nothing says wizards can't be priests, and what I've read on the matter suggests that it's fairly common for Boccob and not uncommon for Wee Jas, and cult leaders are as likely clerics as wizards for Vecna.

Never really looked into Mystra, I'll admit.

Mephit
2012-03-05, 01:18 PM
I killed a Cleric and stole his Holy Symbol just for this very reason and as for creating food and water I already got that covered from another thread.



Stole a Clerics clothes... Murdered him as well :smallbiggrin:


I'm looking forward to this completely snowballing out of control with you murdering 2-3 people in every town you pass who uncover your secret.

Mono Vertigo
2012-03-05, 01:41 PM
I'm looking forward to this completely snowballing out of control with you murdering 2-3 people in every town you pass who uncover your secret.
You are implying most PCs don't usually murder more NPCs than necessary. Just joking here, guys.

Prime32
2012-03-05, 05:32 PM
Try that dwarf PrC in Races of Stone which lets you cast spells in armor.

Or be an archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3), which is essentially a wizard who learns divine magic rather than arcane. (extra-blasphemous! :smalltongue:)

Coidzor
2012-03-05, 05:41 PM
Try that dwarf PrC in Races of Stone which lets you cast spells in armor.
Runesmith is the name, I believe. Fun for the rare dwarven gish, and JaronK found some way to get around spell component costs with it as well.


He got the idea from Dragon Age pretty kick ass really... They do have Wizards that aren't like me... but those Wizards have limited choices towards spells (No Conjuration, Necromancy, No Evocations, limited Transmutation, Abjurations by Andraste's grace they matter as well just castrate the Wizards...)

Just remember to watch out for illusionists. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872354/Shadowcraft_Mage_Handbook)

Asmodeus is allowed to be worshiped openly but wizards are killed on sight, eh?

That's delightfully screwy. Usually those guys need arcane backup. :smallamused:

Heatwizard
2012-03-07, 05:57 AM
Someone should write up a setting where arcane magic is adored and celebrated, and divine casting is the taboo one. Just to be contrary.

hewhosaysfish
2012-03-07, 10:52 AM
Someone should write up a setting where arcane magic is adored and celebrated, and divine casting is the taboo one. Just to be contrary.

Well there was this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234341&highlight=church) about a setting where the gods are hated and feared. Although in that setting, divine casters were drawing power from the gods and giving nothing back, and so are generally approved of.

olthar
2012-03-08, 02:06 AM
Basically, you have to avoid casting spells in front of...

A) Actual clerics
B) Anyone with ranks in Knowledge Religion or Arcana, since those should probably allow for a roll to recognize the type of magic
C) Anyone with ranks in Spellcraft

Nobody else should have any way of knowing the difference, as long as you have a holy symbol and avoid doing anything blatantly wizardly. Depending how common illegal arcane casters are, the police may or may not study these fields as a standard precaution in order to catch them.

Likewise, you should put a lot of points into Knowledge Religion. Bluffing will be easier if you know the right lies.

It would probably also be wise to take Eschew Materials, since all those weird spell components will give you away. Both if you use them in public, or if someone searchers your possessions.

And I'd see if your DM will increase the DC to recognize your magic as arcane if you take Silent Spell and Still Spell. If they only see the result and not the casting, it might be hard to tell what kind of magic it is even if someone does have the appropriate knowledge or spellcraft ranks.

And no. Do not carry a "tropy spellbook". I wouldn't buy that ruse, and neither should guards. Instead make your spellbook look like a prayer book, thanks to Secret Page (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretPage.htm). You can change every page to perfectly copy the text of whatever religious tome you pretend to follow.

Also, summoning fiendish snakes with Summon Monster I is probably a useful trick to convince people of your faith.

I just finished playing almost this exact character (he died).

Be sure to talk with the DM about the fluff of the spells. If a spell makes you in some way obvious as the caster then don't use it. Silent and still spell are really nice for casting in public without being obvious about what you are doing.

The ability to know a bit about your religion is also important. You don't need to pretend to be an amazingly powerful person of your "faith." You just need to be enough to fool the common people. Common people are not amazingly genre savvy. If you run into a real cleric you're caught no matter what you do so don't try make your disguise strong enough to fool them.

You should also always just have a story. You will look different from most clerics, but not all. There will be bookish priests who don't wear armor and wield godly weapons. You are one of those. You don't wear heavy armor because you're just not that physically powerful and even if you did it would look weird to do so in a city.

If someone asks you to prove your magical ability then call the guy on how offensive he is being and say that you're god would never grant you a spell for the purpose of proving to some person that you are a priest unless that spell would be used to kill that person.

Priests don't walk around town healing people and performing miracles. You shouldn't either. Most priests probably go around pretty unnoticed, there is no reason you should not do that as well. It's actually rather easy to pretend to be a priest.

Lysander
2012-03-08, 07:41 PM
See, it's easy to pretend to be a non-caster. Just don't do magic around people that you can't trust, fool, or immediately destroy.

Where it gets hard is if you want to freely use your magic whenever you want, even in cities, even with guards and real priests around, but with nobody catching on.

Maybe you should pose not as a straight up priest, but as a religious scholar with weak magic skills. So if someone asks you to perform some divine spell you can't fake, you can downplay your powers and say that you're mostly a historian. And when you need to whip out some giant arcane spell, have plenty of good reasons why you can do that and not something else.

Maybe you can credit your "divine" spellcasting on a powerful magic staff, or some other magical items, that your "historical research" has unlocked the secrets of. Which would explain why you can perform some potent spells, but can't cast anything a priest can. You're not a priest. You're a religious expert using some ancient magic items.

Shoot Da Moon
2012-03-08, 08:06 PM
Take some ranks in Bluff and Knowledge (Religion), of course. Intimidate and Forgery could also help.

Calanon
2012-03-09, 12:57 AM
See, it's easy to pretend to be a non-caster. Just don't do magic around people that you can't trust, fool, or immediately destroy.

Where it gets hard is if you want to freely use your magic whenever you want, even in cities, even with guards and real priests around, but with nobody catching on.

Maybe you should pose not as a straight up priest, but as a religious scholar with weak magic skills. So if someone asks you to perform some divine spell you can't fake, you can downplay your powers and say that you're mostly a historian. And when you need to whip out some giant arcane spell, have plenty of good reasons why you can do that and not something else.

Maybe you can credit your "divine" spellcasting on a powerful magic staff, or some other magical items, that your "historical research" has unlocked the secrets of. Which would explain why you can perform some potent spells, but can't cast anything a priest can. You're not a priest. You're a religious expert using some ancient magic items.

Disguising as an Archivist might actually be a pretty good idea so eh... entirely possible... Hell it would be more effective then disguising myself as a Wizard... Unfortunately for this game Archivist always work for the state and as such are around more priest then other priest themselves, They mostly work to find secrets hid by various other cults. Locations, Secret Meetings, various knowledge. I could be a spy since If i'm an Archivist I'm not allowed (Even If under threat by an enemy attacker) to use magic. I considered picking up Psionics and going Arcane/Psionic Theurge just so I'm not helpless without my Spellbook... Personally? I have little experience with Psionics but I'm willing to give it the old college try :smallsmile:

So best Arcane/Psionic Theurge you can conjure up, I'd prefer to not specialize on the Arcane Side but eh hit me with your best shot.

Slipperychicken
2012-03-09, 11:52 AM
Actually, it might be safer/easier to pretend you're a Psion. The Easy-Bake-No Worries Wizard (no familiar, no pouch, no spellbook), with some way to Still and Silent your spells in the open (metamagic reduction?). Adding Conceal Spellcasting and False Theurgy to taste.


Or pretend to be an Evil Ideal-Cleric of Hoarding and Greed. Can't heal, and no one's bugging you about it.

Lysander
2012-03-09, 04:16 PM
Or pretend to be a Druid, and make extensive use of shapeshifting spells. And you can describe your attacks as nature-based. "Fireball? That wasn't a fireball. That was, uhhh, Volcano's Fury."

Rain Dragon
2012-03-09, 04:41 PM
I like and wholeheartedly agree with looking into psionics. That could be really interesting (Wizard/Psion).

If you're still looking to disguise as a cleric though, you haven't mentioned what level you're starting at and what alignment (although it's probably obvious to all but me) your deity is. Reading through, relying on feats seems to be a touch unavoidable and multiclassing also requires levels.

If your deity is neutral you could always take advantage of general church politics. It's not uncommon for them to be split in interpretations of things (see the many forms of Christianity) so an explanation for not believing in healing so much if your deity's neutral (as neutral clerics can choose to either inflict or heal at the beginning of the game and get stuck with that decision the rest of the game) could be politics.

Anyway, good luck with your caster, it sounds like hella fun!

eggs
2012-03-09, 05:21 PM
Runesmith is the name, I believe. Fun for the rare dwarven gish, and JaronK found some way to get around spell component costs with it as well.

Like using the class's capstone? What trickery! :smalltongue:

Since I saw the Charlatan's Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6543.0), I've been curious about doing something like the OP, but even more radical. Especially if HP aren't treated as actual wounds, and you can trick people into thinking they're cured. I'm going to recommend that, plus a good smattering of alchemical items, poisons and run-of-the-mill magic items for maximum pseudo-castery.

TheJayde
2012-03-09, 07:58 PM
Make a lot of potions of spells like Bears Endurance so that people would drink them and be more capable of overcoming spells. Or just get potions and claim everything you do is by enchanting water.

Calanon
2012-03-10, 12:05 AM
I like and wholeheartedly agree with looking into psionics. That could be really interesting (Wizard/Psion).

If you're still looking to disguise as a cleric though, you haven't mentioned what level you're starting at and what alignment (although it's probably obvious to all but me) your deity is. Reading through, relying on feats seems to be a touch unavoidable and multiclassing also requires levels.

We are starting at 3rd level, My DM understands that Theurges and Gish builds are popular amongst our group so he's fairly merciful with Early Entry builds, I was gonna go for 9th level Arcane Casting and using a homebrewed version of Precocious Apprentice for Psionics (My DM likes it but personally I think its to... eh), Most of us are some level of Evil I'm Chaotic Evil, most of us are Neutral Evil and one guy is a Lawful Evil Paladin of Tyranny, We managed to justify him working with us by saying that he wishes to usurp his superiors and take control of the church don't know anything more then that and that he wants to kill me... Don't take it as much of a threat since PVP isn't allowed until 15. (Or whatever level we can kill the High Priest of the Cult of Orcus)

Books allowed are All of Core (PHB1/2 etc) All of Champion (He really expects us to die...) Fiendish Codex 1 if your Chaotic and 2 if your Lawful some homebrew with DMs permission (Only if its a modification for another feat for another type of already existing feat) Clerics are allowed access to the BoVD, and some Dicefreak stuff... the Dicefreak stuff is what horrifies me the most...

a more detailed description of our party so far from what I've heard from my friends is one of them wants to be a Cleric of Orcus, a Paladin of Tyranny, a Rogue aspiring to be an Assassin, and a Rogue that just wants money.

an Evil description of my Character is that as a child he was from a Tribe of Arcane casters during the Rise of the Churches power, in an Event known as "The Age of Silence" when my Tribe was raided my entire family was killed and my Psionic abilities woke and Charmed a soldier into helping me escape. Ever since then I've been in hiding trying to regain what knowledge has been destroyed by the Church... Eventually the Cult of Orcus managed to contact me and recruited me to there Cabal of Wizards, "knowing" it was an obvious trap set by the Church I sent the messagers head back to them carried by a starved and mentally warped Soldier of the Church; After that the Cult High Priest approached me in a dream and told me everything and the next day a man approached me with a head, this time it was the head of the Soldier whose mind I completely destroyed at that point, I was in...



Anyway, good luck with your caster, it sounds like hella fun!

Running for your life and having to hid from Paladins and Clerics who Summon Fiends Periodically TOTALLY sounds like fun... :smallannoyed: LOL no blue text needed... honesty is great...

Shadowknight12
2012-03-10, 08:16 AM
Someone should write up a setting where arcane magic is adored and celebrated, and divine casting is the taboo one. Just to be contrary.

I couldn't agree more.

I mean, we all know wizards are overpowered, but everyone always overlooks the fact that 3 out of the other Big Five are Divine and the last one is a steampunk arcane-caster-wannabe that would be lucky to spit-shine a true wizard's boots.

Slipperychicken
2012-03-10, 10:31 AM
Running for your life and having to hid from Paladins and Clerics who Summon Fiends Periodically TOTALLY sounds like fun... :smallannoyed: LOL no blue text needed... honesty is great...

What you really need is a good plan, and a DM who won't just stomp on it. Make it clear to him that your character's chosen strategy has worked for his whole life so far. Find out whatever the Cabal of Wizards has been doing, and use that if possible (since the DM thinks that works). A Hat of Disguise may be a lifesaver if you're discovered.


Ranks in Disguise, Bluff, and maybe Sleight of Hand will prove useful.


Remember not to dress like a Wizard (No cloaks, no pointy hats, no staff). Carry a shortsword/cudgel, whether you know how to use it or not. Wear a shield on your back. Look like anything other than a caster. Generally keep a low profile by avoiding anything flashy-looking and obviously arcane. Use wands or scrolls so you can say you're a UMD Rogue.

jedipilot24
2012-03-10, 05:52 PM
Arcane Disciple feat
Wyrm Wizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19530806/?pg=last)
Dip into Factotum to get opportunistic piety.
Be a Charlatan (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6543.0)
Be a Chameleon (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8750.0)
Even better, be both.
The Healing Salve from Tome and Blood.
The Healing Salve from Magic Item Compendium (much more expensive)
The Healers Kit from Dungeonscape
Use the Healing Belt, the Amulet of Emergency Healing and the Amulet of Retributive Healing
Max out UMD and use wands of Cure Light Wounds and Vigor with a Casting Glove and/or Ring of Spell Storing.
Orb of Mental Renewal
Rod of Bodily Restoration
Max out Bluff and use a Greater Skill Shard.
Wand of False Life.
Robe of Many Items
A Merciful Weapon and Inquistor Bracers
The Fey Legacy feat lets you cast Summon Nature's Ally V once per day, which would allow you to summon a Unicorn.

Calanon
2012-03-10, 07:01 PM
Arcane Disciple feat
Isn't allowed!


Wyrm Wizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19530806/?pg=last)

I can dip my nachos in that class. That is how Cheesy it is.


Dip into Factotum to get opportunistic piety.

Factotum isn't allowed


Be a Charlatan (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?
topic=6543.0)

Dragon Mag isn't allowed


Be a Chameleon (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8750.0)

I'll discuss the legality of Races of Destiny for our game... not sure if its allowed


Even better, be both.

One isn't legal, the other is... Well i'm not sure...


The Healing Salve from Tome and Blood.

Not allowed!


The Healing Salve from Magic Item Compendium (much more expensive)

Not allowed!


The Healers Kit from Dungeonscape

Not allowed!


Use the Healing Belt, the Amulet of Emergency Healing and the Amulet of Retributive Healing

Where are these from?


Max out UMD and use wands of Cure Light Wounds and Vigor with a Casting Glove and/or Ring of Spell Storing.

Confident it the Cleric is buying Wands of Cure Light Wounds the party will be suspicious...


Orb of Mental Renewal

Where is this from?


Rod of Bodily Restoration

Where is this from?


Max out Bluff and use a Greater Skill Shard.

Already on this!


Wand of False Life.

Same as a wand of Cure Light wounds!


Robe of Many Items

I feel that would be a waste of an item slot but I'll put it into consideration


A Merciful Weapon and Inquistor Bracers

How would Non-lethal damage help me? and where are the Inquistor braces from?


The Fey Legacy feat lets you cast Summon Nature's Ally V once per day, which would allow you to summon a Unicorn.

I'm not pretending to play a druid... how would this help me?

I am deeply confused by your comment...

jedipilot24
2012-03-10, 07:14 PM
Unicons can heal.

The items are from the Magic Item Compendium. The merciful weapon is because the bracers only work in conjunction with a melee attack.

And there is no reason for the party to be suspicious if the Cleric is stocking up on wands; if anything, they should be glad that he's getting prepared. Never know how much healing might be required after all.
Most actual Clerics do that anyway precisely so that they don't have to blow all their spell slots on healing.

Calanon
2012-03-10, 07:55 PM
Unicorns can heal.

I'd be pretending to be a Cleric of Asmodeus, so yeah...


The items are from the Magic Item Compendium. The merciful weapon is because the bracers only work in conjunction with a melee attack.

Magic item Compendium isn't allowed; that and the question of "Why isn't the Cleric killing these heretics?" will pop up if I don't kill Arcane Casters...


And there is no reason for the party to be suspicious if the Cleric is stocking up on wands; if anything, they should be glad that he's getting prepared. Never know how much healing might be required after all.

I meant suspicious as in "Why is that Cleric using wands instead of his spells in combat?" or "Why hasn't he Divine Power'd himself?" or maybe the ever wonderful "Can you Rebuke these undead so we can move on through this place?"

Shadowknight12
2012-03-10, 08:01 PM
"Why isn't the Cleric killing these heretics?"

"I have better things to do. I am a Cleric of Asmodeus, not some paladin. I don't have to kill out of some divine duty. I can, in fact, not give a rat's arse."


"Why is that Cleric using wands instead of his spells in combat?"

"Because it's more effective that way. If I know what spells I'm going to need to cast repeatedly, keeping them in wands is more effective and lets me save up my spell slots for things that wouldn't be worth making a whole wand for."


"Why hasn't he Divine Power'd himself?"

"I will not sully myself with melee combat. That's for plebeians."


"Can you Rebuke these undead so we can move on through this place?"

"I traded that class feature for the ability to do X instead." or "Sure thing. *casts Command Undead*"

Calanon
2012-03-10, 09:20 PM
"I have better things to do. I am a Cleric of Asmodeus, not some paladin. I don't have to kill out of some divine duty. I can, in fact, not give a rat's arse."

Cleaver :smallamused:




"Because it's more effective that way. If I know what spells I'm going to need to cast repeatedly, keeping them in wands is more effective and lets me save up my spell slots for things that wouldn't be worth making a whole wand for."

I wouldn't even buy that for half a gp :smallannoyed:



"I will not sully myself with melee combat. That's for plebeians."

...Justifiable oddly enough :smallsmile:



"I traded that class feature for the ability to do X instead." or "Sure thing. *casts Command Undead*"

ACF makes sense, and a spellcraft check 0 tells them I'm casting an Arcane Spell (Casting a Divine Spell is as simple as holding onto your holy symbol and praying for the desired result)

Shadowknight12
2012-03-10, 09:51 PM
I wouldn't even buy that for half a gp :smallannoyed:

What? Are you joking? It's not even a lie! You wouldn't have to roll Bluff at all! It's completely and utterly true! That's the entire point of using wands, so that you DON'T have to prepare Grease or Web or Magic Missile 6 times per day! More exclamation marks!


ACF makes sense, and a spellcraft check 0 tells them I'm casting an Arcane Spell (Casting a Divine Spell is as simple as holding onto your holy symbol and praying for the desired result)

Firstly, you can only make a Spellcraft check if you're trained in the skill. Secondly, making the check is a voluntary choice, not an involuntary reaction. If nobody has any reason to doubt you, they wouldn't want to make a Spellcraft check in the first place.

But yeah, go with ACF, it's the better idea.

Calanon
2012-03-10, 10:18 PM
What? Are you joking? It's not even a lie! You wouldn't have to roll Bluff at all! It's completely and utterly true! That's the entire point of using wands, so that you DON'T have to prepare Grease or Web or Magic Missile 6 times per day! More exclamation marks!

Its not the fact that its hard to believe its that it will lead them to asking more and more questions which I really don't want. Don't get me wrong the idea is cosmic and It reminds me of Mystogan from Fairy Tail (Really, it does) citizens will just be viewing at that mysterious Cleric who walked into town with a bag full of wands. Perhaps I'm just being TO paranoid [continued in next section]


Firstly, you can only make a Spellcraft check if you're trained in the skill. Secondly, making the check is a voluntary choice, not an involuntary reaction. If nobody has any reason to doubt you, they wouldn't want to make a Spellcraft check in the first place.

I say a Spellcraft 0 check because my group is so paranoid that they will roll a skill check on the smallest things its a Lawful Evil world so betrayal, deception, vengeance, and murder are all commonplace. your either Paranoid or your going to die.

anybody whose anybody will attempt to check if anyone is performing Arcane magic just to get a chance at promotion.

DM wanted to make it so hard to be an Arcane Caster that its hardly even worth it, but I enjoy a good challenge. My Party is mostly Chaotic Evil in this Lawful Evil world so I'm confident they won't try and betray me because it would lead to an investigation against them (The Paladin however makes me more paranoid then anything else). I'm most likely going to disguise myself as a Psion (Not hunted, but not liked either) , an Archivist (Magically castrated) or a Cleric (Has all the power) or something