[PF] Spells with no saving throw?

[Laniius]

I'm preparing a straight, pathfinder only, 20th level wizard to take on a friend's 20th level fighter to prove a point. What are some good spells that take him out of the fight that don't allow saving throws?

[Acanous]

Solid Fog. Wall of Stone, if you don't use it to entomb the fighter. There's a plethora of spells that use CMB/D checks instead of allowing a save, but he's a fighter so avoid them.
Magic Missile.

Really, it's a fighter, man. Fly and invisibly spam magic missiles. He'll go down.

[mikau013]

Make sure you're not fighting on the material plane.

Then cast gate and call the fighter.
Now he is under your control. Let your imagination run wild.

[Hyde]

Summoned Monsters' attacks don't allow for saving throws, and you can buff them all day long. In fact, there are a few direct damaging spells in the conjuration school that don't allow for saves, acid arrow being an example of a low-level one, but I'm sure there's more. You're also going to want to look at spells that don't allow for spell resistance (another advantage of summoned creatures). If gate is still around, call a Balor and take a nap.

In a duel, you don't need a lot of the metamagic feats, so look into spending some of them (five) on the requisite armor proficiencies to be able to cast in plate with no real penalty (5% ASFC in mithril full plate) as a swift action. Or get rods of still spell, or even metamagic still spell. Do everything you can to crank your initiative roll and/or defenses- while a fighter still isn't as big a threat as casters, if he builds it right, The thing WILL hit you and hit like a truck. If you're starting on an even playing field (no prebuffing, whatever) you're going to want to make sure you go first (Time stop) or can survive the round (Expect ~60 points of damage a swing, with crits of up to four times that).

If you survive the opening, you can probably build whichever way you want and call it a day.

[Novawurmson]

Looks like a job for Maze (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/maze) :D Ten minutes of buff time should be plenty. :smallcool:

Energy Drain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/energy-drain)/Enervation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enervation) will decimate him.

Also, remember that his reflex and will saving throws are likely to be terrible (Bravery will give him a decent save against fear). Lowering the saves is also an option. Prediction of Failure (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/prediction-of-failure) is auto-sickened and shaken for 1 round/level.

High level AoE spells tend not to allow saving throws. Acid Fog (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/acid-fog)+Sirocco (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sirocco)+Scouring Winds (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/scouring-winds)+Wall of Stone should give him fits; he'll be exhausted, unable to see and taking damage constantly. Waves of Exhaustion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/waves-of-exhaustion), also does not allow a saving throw, but Sirocco is more humiliating, IMO.

Power Word: Stun (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/power-word-stun) works once he's under 151 HP, as does Power Word: Kill (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/power-word-kill) under 100.

For more "DoT" (damage over times) spells that don't require saving throws, Mage's Sword (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mage-s-sword) works.

Many touch spells don't require saving throws. Polar Ray (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/polar-ray) looks brutal.

Buff spells you cast on yourself don't give him saving throws.

Also found Wreath of Blades (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wreath-of-blades), which should be useful, because he'll almost definitely be taking Disruptive.

[Skyrunner]

20th level wizard will most certainly win.

Other than no-save spells, spells like Orb of Acid which use Ranged Touch will be brutal, 15d6 per attack. The fighter's armor will be useless.

Spells that let you fly, or be invisible should be good.

Like the above poster said, Energy Drain and Enervation are your friends. Ranged Touch!

If you want to be unorthodox, use Ray of Enfeeblement and sap at his Str while flying.

Time Stop will ensure you at least 2 free turns - use a bunch of Quickened buffs along with maybe Delayed Blast, especially some spell that makes you fly out of reach.

Or, if you want to really rub it in, use Time Stop to make yourself fly and then prepare tons of Magic Missiles, even in higher spell slots, and Maximized MM him to death. (The feat Easy Metamagic (Maximize) taken twice should allow you to afford to maximize away.) (EDIT : Not sure if PF has Easy Metamagic ...)

[Krazzman]

(EDIT : Not sure if PF has Easy Metamagic ...)

Magic Knack (Trait)
and Spell Perfection (Feat).

[Laniius]

Solid Fog. Wall of Stone, if you don't use it to entomb the fighter. There's a plethora of spells that use CMB/D checks instead of allowing a save, but he's a fighter so avoid them.
Magic Missile.

Really, it's a fighter, man. Fly and invisibly spam magic missiles. He'll go down.

We both have full WBL.

[Gavinfoxx]

We both have full WBL.

He still has to remember to pick up things for flight, burrowing, invisibility, etc.

[Laniius]

Bahaha. I wonder if I know the fighter's name? (We haven't come up with ground rules regarding prep time yet). If I do, I have the funniest way to beat him.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beguiling-gift , http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/trap-the-soul .

"Here, hold this."

[Ravens_cry]

Bahaha. I wonder if I know the fighter's name? (We haven't come up with ground rules regarding prep time yet). If I do, I have the funniest way to beat him.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beguiling-gift , http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/trap-the-soul .

"Here, hold this."
Unless you are allowed to research new spells for this, a wizard can't cast Beguiling Gift.
Still, it looks like yet another way Witches are Win as they can cast both. Even better, Beguiling Gift can be used with Spell Hex (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spell-hex), making so the DC scale the way hexes do.

[Korlash]

First Specialize in Enchantment, that Level 8 ability is amazing.
Aura of Despair (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of despair for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. Enemies within this aura take a –2 penalty on ability checks, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and skill checks. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
if you are using your full wealth bonus then buy a Headband of Vast Intelligence +6, and you can afford a Tome of Clear Thought +5. Of course Play your strong stats and your racial bonuses towards intelligence, depending on how you do your stats you can still manage a 20 starting Intelligence which with 5 Bonus additions to give you a 25 Int. after the items you have a 36 Intelligence, with a Modifier of +13. Thats a spell save of 23 + Spell Level. 32 on 9th Level spells. You also get 2 bonus 9th level spells for a total of 6 (plus a specialist spell.) Just Heighten those spells to 9th level and it's over with. A Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken will let you facilitate those high level spells.

Just prep a whole bunch of Mind Fogs, and Heightened Bestow Curse, With Feeble Mind.
Mind Fog (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mind-fog) plays on Will saves, It is Will Negates, but if they fail the save it is a -10 penalty on Wisdom checks and Will saves. Persists for time spent in the fog plus 2d6 rounds. Pop this until he fails a save, then Hit him with Feeblemind. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/feeblemind) When he fails this save he then has an Int of 1. Walk up to his demented behind and then touch him with a Bestow Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bestow-curse) Targeting his Int. a -6 to his 1 Int should kill him. If you are lucky this all takes 3 rounds, if not 2.

[TuggyNE]

Walk up to his demented behind and then touch him with a Bestow Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bestow-curse) Targeting his Int. a -6 to his 1 Int should kill him. If you are lucky this all takes 3 rounds, if not 2.

Bestow Curse explicitly mentions that it cannot reduce an ability score below 1. In addition, while reducing Int to 0 would make him helpless (and thus a viable target for coup-de-grace) it does not technically kill him outright.

[Need_A_Life]

Sure bets:

The Power Word Line is excellent.
Maze to give you buff time.
Quickened Hostile Levitation (save) + Forgecage equals someone locked in in an indestructible case of force that still doesn't limit line of sight (but does limit line of effect). Ray of Frost him to death. If you don't use Hostile Levitation he must either be flying or you need to prevent him from burrowing.
Enervation or Energy Drain are incredible debuffs.
Black Tentacles can keep him busy for a while.


Defenses

Mirror Image is your go-to.
If you're an Illusionist, you have some greater invisibility for a while every day. Use it.
There's a familiar that gives +4 Initiative. Improved Initiative stacks with it. A specialist diviner would get an addition +10. Nerveskitter adds +5. You could have an Initiative of Dex+23 with relatively little investment.


Edge Cases:

If you're anywhere but his home plane (typically the Material Plane), Gate him in. Then force him to fight to the death against summoned monsters. Laughing is optional.
Trap the Soul.


If you add in Spell Compendium then I'll call the fight even before initiative.

Do you get to start with all-day buffs already cast?
And if not, does he get to start wearing armour? 'cause it's the same thing, really.

If you do, Overland Flight and Mage Armour are quite reasonable.

[mikau013]

Well you could always plane shift away to the positive energy plane, then cast death ward on yourself and then gate in the fighter and watch her explode. If you're into that.

[jmelesky]

There's a nontrivial chance that the fighter is planning on using Antagonize (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize) to bring you into range and pound you. Mirror Image helps, here (and, if this tactic is likely, it might be worth your Contingency to bring up Mirror Image again if your last image ever disappears).

The fun thing that Antagonizers tend to forget, though, is that, though you need to make a melee attack, you needn't be dumb about it. Cast a touch attack spell beforehand (quickened with your rod, if necessary). And there are lots of fun touch attack spells. Imprisonment, as one example, is a fine way to end the fight.

[Blisstake]

Ugh, Antagonize. Not a fan of that feat... but if you're going for anything legal, then you'll need to expect to go against that...

Anyway, Enervation and Energy Drain are nice, but I think there's a PF feat that lets fighters reflect one ray attack per round. So be careful if the character has a shield.

Summoned Monsters are cool, but they take a whole round to cast. The fighter will probably be able to interrupt you before you finish (concentration checks are a lot tougher now). Unless you start with mirror images or invisibility, but I'm not sure if you get to begin the fight with buffs up or not. You'll need to summon a bunch of them after using Time Stop in order to not get interrupted, or maybe use a greater quicken rod.

Black Tentacles are nice, but I think there's a good chance the fighter's CMD will be higher than the tentacle's CMB roll. Icy Prison is deadly, but it does allow a reflex save. Usually, people going against wizards don't bother with that save, since there traditionally aren't any reflex saves that are so devastating.

If you want to be really cheap, use Terrible Remorse while you have summoned monsters up. Unless he has immunity to compulsion or spell resistance, you'll automatically be able to make him lose his next turns.

The Wall spells typically don't allow any saves, so you could just box in the fighter with a small hole so you can summon monsters inside of it.

Or you could just use Gate, open it to the Negative Energy Plane, and quickened Telekinesis the fighter inside. That could be a fun way to win.

[jmelesky]

Ugh, Antagonize. Not a fan of that feat... but if you're going for anything legal, then you'll need to expect to go against that...

Fortunately for the wizard, it affects you a maximum of once per day, so you can curtail it completely with a properly Contingency'd Dimension Door.


Summoned Monsters are cool, but they take a whole round to cast. The fighter will probably be able to interrupt you before you finish (concentration checks are a lot tougher now).

Ah, there's a way around that: the Acadamae Graduate feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/local-feats/acadamae-graduate-local-1). Reduce your summon casting times to a standard action, but requires a Fort save (penalty? you get fatigued if you fail, but the spell still goes off). Standard action summonings mean easily Quickened summonings, so you can get two Astral Devas in a single round if you so desire.

[Blisstake]

Ah, there's a way around that: the Acadamae Graduate feat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/local-feats/acadamae-graduate-local-1). Reduce your summon casting times to a standard action, but requires a Fort save (penalty? you get fatigued if you fail, but the spell still goes off). Standard action summonings mean easily Quickened summonings, so you can get two Astral Devas in a single round if you so desire.

That's actually not Pathfinder Legal - It was produced for 3.5, but for the Pathfinder Campaign Setting. It never got updated for the PF ruleset, so it technically is not a valid trait selection.

[MagnusExultatio]

First Specialize in Enchantment, that Level 8 ability is amazing.

Diviner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/divination) is better, especially with the Foresight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/divination/foresight) option.

[jmelesky]

That's actually not Pathfinder Legal - It was produced for 3.5, but for the Pathfinder Campaign Setting. It never got updated for the PF ruleset, so it technically is not a valid trait selection.

Ah, good point. It's legal for Pathfinder Society, which is probably why i misremembered. There is another option for standard-action summons, though.

There's a 9th-level Illusion spell, "Shades", which is Shadow Conjuration, max 8th level, 80% real-ness. And it's a standard action casting time. So two Astral Devas in one round might be out, but two Barbed Devils, or two Elder Elementals (or 2d3 celestial Dire Crocodiles) per round are definitely within the realm of possibility. I'm not sure if it warrants Illusion as a specialization school (though the Phantasm subschool has a very handy no-save 8th-level debuff), but giving up a couple slots for the flexibility of a spontaneous caster, not to mention the handy-dandy meat shields of a conjuerer, is nothing to sneeze at.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Just combining some previously-stated strategies and adding in a couple of twists...

1. Diviner (Foresight) 20 + Moment of Prescience = You go first. If you optimize your initiative (Dino Familiar, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/compsognathus) Improved Initiative) just a tad, you won't need the MoP to guarantee going first, meaning you can use it later.
2. Maze buys you some time. Time Stop buys you more time. Use one or both.
3. With this time, Gate/summon in stuff nasty enough to potentially kill the fighter, or at least bruise him a bit. Right before he gets back, throw up a Barred Forcecage to avoid Antagonize and his regular melee schtick. For style points/extra safety, also throw up a Projected Image and a Solid Fog centered on you. Cast spells through the Projected Image. Now he can't get to you unless he (1) gets through your summoned meat wall, (2) figures out the projected image trick, (3) traverses through solid fog and (4) gets through the forcecage he couldn't originally see.
4. If necessary, Power Word Stun + Blast to whittle down HP.
5. Power Word Kill. If there's some PF item that gives immunity to death effects of which I am unaware, keep stunning/blasting/summoning until you kill him the hard way. The key is to deny him any actions which directly affect you in some meaningful way, and then it's just a game of mopping up.

*Stupid feat, by the way. You use intimidate, the skill used to scare people into doing what you want, to convince people to come face to face and attack you? At least it's mind affecting, but Mind Blank doesn't help you any more. That said, there's no Mind Blank to help him, either...

[Hyde]

The Antagonist line stipulates that the target has to understand you, so take a nonstandard race that doesn't have common as a default language (Like Drow, I guess, I didn't really look at them. There should be at least a few, right?