What should I do about the Rattus Norvegicus?

[Elemental]

I've just noticed we have vermin.

Now, I can't let the cat go after it, because that's cruel. And traps probably aren't guaranteed of a quick death.
Poison is probably the best choice in this situation.

Anyway, that's not the problem. The problem is I'm too nice to kill it (it's so adorable with it's little face and hands! It just wants cheese, I can tell!)
Suggestions as to how I can get out of doing the job myself?
Should I trick someone else into doing it?

[Grinner]

Maybe an exterminator? Or just leave it alone, if it's so heartwarmingly adorable.

Edit:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110621230431/elderscrolls/images/a/ad/Arvena_Thelas_1.jpg

:smalltongue:

[pffh]

Well if you don't want to kill it you can always use one of those traps that catch it alive and then release it a hundred or so kilometers away from your house.

[Yora]

You can also release it just outside the house, if you block the way it came inside in the first place. Which you have to do anyone, since if one rat managed to get in that way, then more will do so in the future.
Getting it to a place too far away to return isn't neccessary.

[Spiryt]

Can't possibly see how poison can be less "cruel" than cat....

Poison can work quickly or something can go wrong and rat will vomit it's entrails all over the place.

Cat would be just constant circle of nature - kill stuff and eat stuff.

If you don't want it killed at all, stuff that catches rodents alive is pretty cheap and easy to use.

I have one small trap, and it works fine.

[dehro]

I am biased against the cat because I actually sell rat-traps for a living (not just rat traps, but there you go)
on the other hand, it does mean I have a little knowledge in the field

poison is most effective. not the least cruel by far, because most poison nowadays is designed to be effective after a while, so that the rat goes to die in it's rathole. other rat won't stay around a cadaver, which means that they'll find somewhere else to live.
if you capture it alive you either travel several km away from home before you release it, or it will get back home faster than you. alternatively, you have to actually kill it yourself.
a simple trap with an appropriate bait, that kills it outright, is the best solution.

these here (http://www.swissinno.com/en/pest-control/rat/rat-trap-supercat.html)are the ones I sell..very effective and with the advantage of having a bait built in that is specific for rats (so no small children and domestic animals will be attracted by it). it is not a poison, what kills the rat is ..the trap.
be sure you're dealing with rats though..because if it's just mice, they migh be too small to trigger the trap or be crushed by it.
for them, the same item comes in a smaller size.
you should find them most anywhere in europe, I reckon (the website has a link to local main companies that sell the traps.)

have fun, and watch your fingers

[Taffimai]

On the whole other side of the spectrum: lock all your food away, pour flea powder around the house and buy a tiny little bell for your cat :smalltongue:

[Aedilred]

Get a ferret (or, preferably, two). They'll kill the rats, and they're even more adorable, with their little dripping fangs and bloodsoaked whiskers.

I've always felt that "humane" traps are a bit pointless because all you're doing is moving the problem somewhere else (unless the rat dies, in which case it's no more humane than killing it yourself.) It's kind of the same approach as chucking your refuse sacks into your neighbour's garden when they get full. The problem hasn't gone away, you've just passed it on to someone else. And you still need to take measures to stop the rats from coming back. But you may feel differently.

[Kneenibble]

I am a vegetarian of nine years and yet I gladly slaughter vermin in my house as quickly possible.

I don't live in a region that suffers from rats, but I get mice periodically. There is no better mousetrap to be built than the old-fashioned snap traps: it gets the mice every time and within a day or two. The mouse dies instantly then autonomically thrashes for a few seconds. To me, that is perfectly humane. Do they make rat-sized snappers?

Mice and rats are unclean, robbers, and disease vectors; when infesting a home there is nothing cute about them. Rats are even worse than mice. Unless one practices strict non-violence, I find that sentimental line of thinking absurd.

[bluewind95]

The traps that snap them dead in an instant are probably the most humane ones. Poison isn't pretty, and it's a cruel death for the rat. Not to mention, cats are curious (and some of them are worse than little kids when it comes to putting stuff in their mouths), it could be dangerous for the cat, too. A snapping trap where the cat won't reach it but the rat can, probably is your best bet.

[Partof1]

I'm gonna vote aganst poison, too. There is no guarantee of a quick death, and that means the rat can crawl back into his hole in your wll and die there, leaving you with stink and many bugs.

Either the cat or the snap traps are way better options, and if a quick death is your biggest priority, then you'll want the traps.

I have no experience with live traps, living on a acreage wth a dad who dislikes rodents, so I'll let others vote for or against them.

[Grinner]

Cats are sadists.

Poisons aren't always fast-acting.

So, I'm going to recommend the traps, if you intend to do it yourself. Also, I've heard peanut butter works marvelously.

[Viera Champion]

I've just noticed we have vermin.

Now, I can't let the cat go after it, because that's cruel. And traps probably aren't guaranteed of a quick death.
Poison is probably the best choice in this situation.

Anyway, that's not the problem. The problem is I'm too nice to kill it (it's so adorable with it's little face and hands! It just wants cheese, I can tell!)
Suggestions as to how I can get out of doing the job myself?
Should I trick someone else into doing it?

Traditional mouse traps tend to work fairly well, and are very humane, as the snap the spine and cause death instantly and painlessly. But rats tend to be bigger than mice, so I don't know...

[Grinner]

Traditional mouse traps tend to work fairly well, and are very humane, as the snap the spine and cause death instantly and painlessly. But rats tend to be bigger than mice, so I don't know...

Rat-sized snap traps are also made.

[Coidzor]

Too cruel? Have you considered that restraining your cat from performing his ancient duties (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2530#comic) has contributed to your problem by emboldening the rats, content that there is no cat present in the house, and if he is, he's useless?

If you set up a trap right, it's basically instant death.

Poison is more likely to kill your cat, the neighbour's dog, any toddlers in the surrounding domiciles, and some of the local wildlife than to get rid of a rat.

Especially since rats are starting to become poison immune/resistant and recognize poisons.

[Juggling Goth]

And traps probably aren't guaranteed of a quick death.
Poison is probably the best choice in this situation.


I think that's dependent on the poison. A poisoned rat crawled into my girlfriend's flat and neither of us were confident in our ability to finish it off quickly, so she just tried to keep it comfortable. It took about a day. There was convulsing. :smallfrown: Plus there's the risk of pets getting into it, or eating the poisoned rat.

I think the springy traps are quicker if they get the neck; you have to make sure you've got one that's the right size and placed the bait properly.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Grow a spine and accept the natural order of things.

The cat was made to hunt animals smaller than itself. It's been doing that for millennia. Overpopulation is a very real problem, right alongside endangered species. Rats are the second most successful species in the world, after us, and will probably outlive us. I don't care if it's small and furry and cute, messing with the natural order is never the answer, and humans do it far too often, out of various weaknesses like laziness, greed, and short-sightedness (short-sightedness can turn virtues into weaknesses).

If you take the rats, all alive, and dump them into a forest (the best way to not kill them while dealing with the problem), either a lot of them will die to predators and the fact that they have no idea where they are, despite quick adaption, or they'll make their way back to civilization. Or both.

[dehro]

just for the record, a couple of truths that I've had straight from the mouth of a serious professional in the extermination business (a client of mine)..
in italy, and europe in general, there was a rat every human being in 1982.. in 1992 the proportion was one person 4 rats..
right now we're somewhere around 1 person 7 rats.
I'm not complaining, because it's my bread and butter..the more rats the more business for me.. but still
on poison: much depends on the quality of the poison. some are made to no act immediately and will be transported to the lair to be nibbled on by more rats and kill off an entire nest.. some are really quick, but the business seems to leave these behind as they're dangerous. poison is still the preferred method of exterminators, on account of it being the most letal.
the most "humane" however is still the spine trap.. which has now evolved in something slightly more modern (in plastic)..but equally valid.
I refer you to my first post on the subject to see what trap I am talking about.
rats have got to die..they are a pest, especially in urban environment, and they multiply faster than we can kill them anyway.

[The Succubus]

I had a rodent problem for a while. Rat proof your house and try to work out where they're coming in from. Block up the cracks (I use wire wool for this) and ditch your rubbish asap.

I also have a trap as well. It's an electric trap and when the aforementioned rodent walks into it, a short, high voltage charge goes off, zapping them instantly. Then all I have to do is tip the rodent into a afterwards. No hands on, no squeaking - nice and clean.

[Lea Plath]

I've had rats in my basement and we found that getting one of those sonic rat GTFO devices and we've not had a problem since.

[Winter_Wolf]

If you want to talk about a truly inhumane and cruel way to trap rodents, it's the sticky paper trap. There may or may not actually be poison on them, but what they do is, well, they stick to the rodent and pin them down. Only once have I ever seen a dead rat on the trap. Which means that I've had to do "mercy killings" for a number of those damn rodents. Don't care for it.

Use the snapper traps and just do it quickly. And peanut butter. Rats love peanut butter.

[Lycan 01]

Another vote against poison. Its effective on rats, but also on everything else. Except roaches.

Horror story time. Many years ago, my parents put out rat poison in our storage rooms. Well, we dunno how effective it was on the rats, but it turned out that roaches had a particular enjoyment for it. That's right, roaches are immune to certain rat poisons. So the roaches were free to run around fine and healthy, laced with toxic vermin poison. Oh, and it turned their guts green. Twas horrifying.


I would suggest the old-fashioned neck-snapper traps, myself. I dunno how effective they are, but I'd rather try them than have my pets and family exposed to poison.

[Elemental]

In response to everyone:
The cat, despite being fourteen years of age, could probably get the rat, but the cat never comes down here because she's an outdoor cat.

And I see what you mean about poison, traps it is.
I'll just have to face the fact that despite being adorable, rats are a dangerously invasive species responsible for the destruction of numerous ecosystems. I'll just get someone else to dispose of the rat once it's dead.

Thanks for helping me be ruthless. It's surprisingly hard to be cruel.

[Hiro Protagonest]

IThanks for helping me be ruthless. It's surprisingly hard to be cruel.

Today, your house. Tomorrow, the world! Mwuahahahaha!

:smalltongue:

[Worlok]

If you take the rats, all alive, and dump them into a forest (the best way to not kill them while dealing with the problem), either a lot of them will die to predators and the fact that they have no idea where they are, despite quick adaption, or they'll make their way back to civilization. Or both.
This actually gave me this mental image of battle-hardened rats returning from their people's pilgrimage back to civilisation, having faced the ugly side of nature and perfectly willing to take their revenge. I somehow picture them wearing those little bullet-belts and toting lots of self-rolled cigarettes while doing Predator-style commando ****, actually. It will start small, of course, like you finding dead foxes and the like out in the garden. Then, one day, five of them bait the cat into the basement, only for one to pounce on it from above, an adorably sized dagger between clenched teeth... You notice all your doors suddenly closing suddenly and with a snap just a fracture of a second after you passed through... Decide that it's likely not a good idea to bend down and reach for the pieces of bacon that you keep finding on the ground in random places... A squad of them eventually comes right up to your bed, catskin in hands, declaring that it's their house now and you should reap what you have sown... Then, there's some dude in his undies, completely confused as to where he is, alone in the wilds somewhere, while way back home, your neighbor's ferrets have gone missing... :smallamused:

[Coidzor]

I think that's dependent on the poison. A poisoned rat crawled into my girlfriend's flat and neither of us were confident in our ability to finish it off quickly, so she just tried to keep it comfortable. It took about a day.

You were unable to think of crushing its head and/or neck beneath your boot? :smallconfused:

Protip: Aside from treating the poison, there's nothing you can do to make it comfortable aside from mercy killing.

Hell, making a rat guillotine and tainting a kitchen knife with blood and poison would have done more to make it comfortable and been kinder than what you did. :smallannoyed:

[dehro]

snip

http://images.macnn.com/macnn/news/0809/overgrowth-game-big5-21.jpg

[Juggling Goth]

You were unable to think of crushing its head and/or neck beneath your boot? :smallconfused:

Protip: Aside from treating the poison, there's nothing you can do to make it comfortable aside from mercy killing.

Hell, making a rat guillotine and tainting a kitchen knife with blood and poison would have done more to make it comfortable and been kinder than what you did. :smallannoyed:

Well, we thought it was more on its way out than it actually was. Given by the time we got it it was partially paralysed, we thought it would be over quicker than me attempting to break its neck, potentially getting it wrong, and hurting/scaring it worse. Not having a crystal ball or the power of hindsight. Obviously that was not the case, but I've figured that out on my own, thanks. Plus I've seen people attempt the 'hit in the head' approach before with a rodent the cat brought in, and not really succeed. Killing things quickly and painlessly is actually quite difficult, it turns out, and I'm not really keen to start practising.


If you want to talk about a truly inhumane and cruel way to trap rodents, it's the sticky paper trap. There may or may not actually be poison on them, but what they do is, well, they stick to the rodent and pin them down. Only once have I ever seen a dead rat on the trap. Which means that I've had to do "mercy killings" for a number of those damn rodents. Don't care for it.

Yeah, those are grim. I don't understand how gin traps are illegal in this country but glue traps aren't, because they're exactly the same thing. The idea with glue traps is that you check them frequently and humanely kill anything that's caught in it, but people are lazy and don't.


I had a rodent problem for a while. Rat proof your house and try to work out where they're coming in from. Block up the cracks (I use wire wool for this)

And remember: rats (and mice) can get through gaps much smaller than you think they can. I keep chickens, and we're told you need mesh down to 0.5 x 0.5 inches if you don't want them to squeeze through. For mice, same numbers, but centimetres.

[Asta Kask]

My cat would probably flee in terror from a rat. Mighty hunter he is not.

[Mono Vertigo]

A few months ago, my Birman brought back a bat from the outside, unharmed and alive. We thought he had gone back to his mostly harmless habits, hunting small animals only to bring them in good shape.
Then the day after, I almost fell on a huge, dead rat, nearing 1kg. Probably. It was a heavy rat, but we didn't exactly take the time to weigh it.

Where did he get that rat from, what with our rat-free house? No idea. But I could let you borrow my cat, if he wasn't so afraid of strangers. :smallbiggrin:

[pffh]

A few months ago, my Birman brought back a bat from the outside, unharmed and alive. We thought he had gone back to his mostly harmless habits, hunting small animals only to bring them in good shape.
Then the day after, I almost fell on a huge, dead rat, nearing 1kg. Probably. It was a heavy rat, but we didn't exactly take the time to weigh it.

Where did he get that rat from, what with our rat-free house? No idea. But I could let you borrow my cat, if he wasn't so afraid of strangers. :smallbiggrin:

That reminds me of a friends cat that used to bring home dead geese and seagulls before several bells were firmly strapped to him (he still manages to get rid of them sometimes or silence them somehow and kill but it's quite rare now)

[Elemental]

My own cat would probably have hunted it down by now, but I don't think she knows it's down here as she gets locked upstairs every night.
And I'm not setting my cat on it. That'd be too cruel.

Also, she's fourteen and she's supposed to be settling down and accepting her advanced age.

Edit: Yes, cats are notorious for moving silently, no matter how many bells are strapped to them.

Edit2: How foolish of me, it's not a rat at all. It's a house mouse, Mus Musculus. Still needs to be gotten rid of, but now it seems even more adorable.
I am such a softy.

[dehro]

there ya go (http://www.swissinno.com/en/pest-control/mouse/mouse-trap-supercat.html) same as the one I suggested for the rat..only smaller

[TechnoScrabble]

Glue traps can be horribly debilitating for rodents.
I would recommend a simple, boy scout style jar trap.
Get a jar that it can't climb out of. Make it level with the ground or a surface so that the rodent does not suspect it. Maybe even cover it up pit trap style.
Lunch meat smothered in peanut butter as the bait. Put it somewhere out of plain view so the rodent isn't afraid to approach it.

Wait two to five hours.

Release rodent, unharmed, into the wild.

Or a vet's office for a checkup to see if you can keep it as a pet.

EDIT: Or, since you've decided to kill it, I suggest a nail-plank-rock trap similar to the kind used to catch moles. Instantly kills the bugger by crushing its spine and stabbing it in multiple places. Or ferrets or weasels. They make wonderfully intelligent pets, but if you've seen the videos I have, you won't buy them from PetsCO or PetsMart.

[Elemental]

As much as I'd like to simply release it into the wild, I'm not allowed to as they're even more of a pest here in Australia.
So, I'm left with no recourse, but to end its life.

[TechnoScrabble]

As much as I'd like to simply release it into the wild, I'm not allowed to as they're even more of a pest here in Australia.

Oh dear.

Yeah, for killing, snap traps or y-traps are the way to go.

Or wizards.

[Elemental]

I just need to go out and buy traps from Bunnings or whoever else sells them.
And we have plenty of peanut butter somewhere if we need to supply our own bait.

I just need to resist the temptation to give it a name.

[Juggling Goth]

If it helps, think of it chewing through electric stuff and burning your house down. There ya go.

[TechnoScrabble]

Give it a name that makes you want to kill it. Like Lord Deadsy Petkillington.

Remember, almost all rodents (and especially rats and mice) are very meat hungry for omnivores. They also tend to like to eat their prey chunks at a time.

Before killing it.

I used to work at an animal shelter, and we lost four kittens that way before we found where they were getting in from.

[Coidzor]

My own cat would probably have hunted it down by now, but I don't think she knows it's down here as she gets locked upstairs every night.
And I'm not setting my cat on it. That'd be too cruel.

You lock a cat upstairs at night but think a cat acting out its ancient role that humans domesticated them for is too cruel. Wat.


Also, she's fourteen and she's supposed to be settling down and accepting her advanced age.

If the cat wants to be active, let it. Aside from limiting their exposure to roads there's not a whole lot of good that mollycoddling the cat is going to do it and not letting the cat exist comfortably as it desires isn't exactly good for it.

[Elemental]

You lock a cat upstairs at night but think a cat acting out its ancient role that humans domesticated them for is too cruel. Wat.

If the cat wants to be active, let it. Aside from limiting their exposure to roads there's not a whole lot of good that mollycoddling the cat is going to do it and not letting the cat exist comfortably as it desires isn't exactly good for it.

I don't know if you know this, but in Australia, cats are considered a highly invasive species. You have to lock them up at night.
And she spends plenty of time outside. I've gone out many times at eleven o'clock at night with a torch looking for the cat to find her on the roof of the shed. Believe me, she's not the type to be mollycoddled.

[dehro]

my aunt had a cat who turned blind as she got older (14-15).. didnt' stop her from heading out every day and night... and occasionally falling off the terrace...
unless you actually have neighbours who complain, I don't see the point in locking a cat up..but then, different rules apply in different countries, I suppose.

[Coidzor]

I don't know if you know this, but in Australia, cats are considered a highly invasive species. You have to lock them up at night.

What, do people go in and out of the house at all hours of the night in such a way that's different from how they go in and out during the day?

[Elemental]

What, do people go in and out of the house at all hours of the night in such a way that's different from how they go in and out during the day?

It's much too hot here, so we leave the backdoor open to get air circulation through the kitchen and the living area.
A practical solution, and we save a fortune on air-conditioning.

[bluewind95]

Keeping a cat outside in the first place is really not a great idea. Of course cats like the outside. However, it is also very dangerous for them, and they can pick up all sorts of nasty bugs and parasites, not to mention encounter people who think it's great fun to torture and kill them and cars which can crush them.

Siccing a cat on a rat/mouse also *is* fairly cruel, since, while cats were domesticated in order to hunt down vermin, modern domestic cats are not generally taught to hunt properly and eat what they hunt. This is why people think cats are very cruel and like to torture their food. Thing is, they don't. They hunt a moving thing by instinct, and lose interest once it stops moving and will attack it again once it does. Thing is, they don't know they're supposed to finish it up and eat it (this is not so instinctive. They're actually taught this behaviour by their mothers. If the mother was also a house cat, she likely would not have taught the kittens to eat what they hunt). They're not out to torture things. They think it's a toy. Not to mention that if the mouse has rabies or other such diseases, well, a bite could transfer the disease to the cat. Which also isn't a pretty thing.

Yeah, the more humane thing to do is keep the cat in the house and resort to traps in order to kill the mouse.

[Coidzor]

It's much too hot here, so we leave the backdoor open to get air circulation through the kitchen and the living area.
A practical solution, and we save a fortune on air-conditioning.

...In Australia? You invite the great outdoors into your home without even having to work for it. And you live in Australia.

And, between your entire family, you're unwilling or unable to kill any pests that would come in. :smallconfused:

What do you do about all of the murder spiders and death snakes?

[Elemental]

What do you do about all of the murder spiders and death snakes?

This may shock you all... But they're are not actually that many death snakes and murder spiders.
I personally, have not seen a snake since I was at reptile park about a year ago, despite living near to a creek and undeveloped/rural land. And my friend has never even seen one in the wild.
And when it comes to spiders, I can't recall the last time I saw a deadly one.

If you want murder spiders and death snakes, you'd have to be an idiot and go looking for them in the places you'd actually find them.
And even if I were in such a place, I know how to avoid snake bites. Spider bites are a bit harder, but not by much.

Further Australian stereotype I shall now take the time to debunk:
I don't know anyone with a stereotypical Australian accent, nor do I myself have one. It sounds almost as alien to me as it does to you.

Platypuses and koalas are not adorable animals that exist so tourists can pat them, they are vicious and will attack you if you approach them.

We do not always greet each other with "G'day mate". Nor do we use cooee as an exclamation of surprise. It's function is as a signal in dense bushland.

Which brings us to our next stereotype: Australia is not just a barren wasteland. We have our fair share of forests, tropical and otherwise.

Vegemite is detested by a large number of Australians. I myself can only tolerate it on buttered toast.

And finally, most people rarely visit the beach. I can barely swim, I cannot surf. I get up at six to go to my course, and then I get home around five. I have no time to go to the beach, even if I wanted to.

Sorry about that, I got annoyed briefly.

[Solaris]

If you want to talk about a truly inhumane and cruel way to trap rodents, it's the sticky paper trap. There may or may not actually be poison on them, but what they do is, well, they stick to the rodent and pin them down. Only once have I ever seen a dead rat on the trap. Which means that I've had to do "mercy killings" for a number of those damn rodents. Don't care for it.

Use the snapper traps and just do it quickly. And peanut butter. Rats love peanut butter.

Yeah, we found that out the hard way in our tent last deployment. Set out sticky traps for roaches, caught mice instead. It might depress you to learn the inventive ways guys came up with to finish them off.

[teratorn]

When killing vermin the concept of cruelty must be considered in a different framework. Providing for a fast swift death involves similar or less suffering than what they would get from their predators. Having said that, I understand how hard it must to kill something furry or feathery for the first time. It's particularly hard for «city folk» since their experience with animals is in the form of pets.

Having lived a decent part of my life in a rural setting I'm rather callous, I wouldn't think twice about killing vermin by stepping on it or trapping it. But not everyone is up to it. I recommend traps that dispatch the animal so you don't have to intervene and finish it yourself, but avoid poison as much as possible. If you really find it uncomfortable you should have someone else handling the kill, it can really affect some people.

[Juggling Goth]

Siccing a cat on a rat/mouse also *is* fairly cruel, since, while cats were domesticated in order to hunt down vermin, modern domestic cats are not generally taught to hunt properly and eat what they hunt. This is why people think cats are very cruel and like to torture their food. Thing is, they don't. They hunt a moving thing by instinct, and lose interest once it stops moving and will attack it again once it does. Thing is, they don't know they're supposed to finish it up and eat it (this is not so instinctive. They're actually taught this behaviour by their mothers. If the mother was also a house cat, she likely would not have taught the kittens to eat what they hunt). They're not out to torture things. They think it's a toy.

Thanks. I'm really fed up of hearing how evil cats are. Not so much. They're just... ineffective, because they have to be taught. My parents' current cats are excellent hunters, because they started off feral and their mother had to teach them to survive. You wouldn't believe the size of prey the fat, sleepy, one-eyed one brings home. Sheesh. The one before them, bless her, had no idea what she was expected to do with the mouse that got in once. She just looked at it and then wandered off.

I read somewhere that when cats bring you a half-dead rodent, they're trying to teach you to hunt the way their mother taught them. "Look, I've mostly killed it for you. This really shouldn't be difficult. Bite it already!"

[Asta Kask]

This may shock you all... But they're are not actually that many death snakes and murder spiders.
I personally, have not seen a snake since I was at reptile park about a year ago, despite living near to a creek and undeveloped/rural land. And my friend has never even seen one in the wild.
And when it comes to spiders, I can't recall the last time I saw a deadly one.

If you want murder spiders and death snakes, you'd have to be an idiot and go looking for them in the places you'd actually find them.
And even if I were in such a place, I know how to avoid snake bites. Spider bites are a bit harder, but not by much.

Further Australian stereotype I shall now take the time to debunk:
I don't know anyone with a stereotypical Australian accent, nor do I myself have one. It sounds almost as alien to me as it does to you.

Platypuses and koalas are not adorable animals that exist so tourists can pat them, they are vicious and will attack you if you approach them.

We do not always greet each other with "G'day mate". Nor do we use cooee as an exclamation of surprise. It's function is as a signal in dense bushland.

Which brings us to our next stereotype: Australia is not just a barren wasteland. We have our fair share of forests, tropical and otherwise.

Vegemite is detested by a large number of Australians. I myself can only tolerate it on buttered toast.

And finally, most people rarely visit the beach. I can barely swim, I cannot surf. I get up at six to go to my course, and then I get home around five. I have no time to go to the beach, even if I wanted to.

Sorry about that, I got annoyed briefly.

Bit it's true about the drop bears, right? :smallbiggrin:

[Elemental]

Bit it's true about the drop bears, right? :smallbiggrin:

No it is not. Despite being vicious when approached, no koala has ever purposefully dropped out a tree and attacked someone.
They live on eucalyptus leaves, they don't have enough energy to waste on senseless violence. And when they do come out of a tree, they don't drop down, they climb down and walk slowly to another tree.

[TechnoScrabble]

No it is not. Despite being vicious when approached, no koala has ever purposefully dropped out a tree and attacked someone.
They live on eucalyptus leaves, they don't have enough energy to waste on senseless violence. And when they do come out of a tree, they don't drop down, they climb down and walk slowly to another tree.

They also have more bacteria on their claws than a komodo dragon does in its mouth. They can cause some nasty infections.

On the plus side, Eucalyptus trees have a tendency to explode, limiting deaths by ugly ass pudgy infection machine.

[Coidzor]

Thanks. I'm really fed up of hearing how evil cats are. Not so much. They're just... ineffective, because they have to be taught. My parents' current cats are excellent hunters, because they started off feral and their mother had to teach them to survive. You wouldn't believe the size of prey the fat, sleepy, one-eyed one brings home. Sheesh. The one before them, bless her, had no idea what she was expected to do with the mouse that got in once. She just looked at it and then wandered off.

Indeed, I've never really understood the misplaced desire that people have for having kittens that have never and will never know a mother's love. :smallsigh:

What's really interesting though, is when two pregnant cats are siblings or friends and they actually lay up and give birth together. They actually started trading kittens with one another, and the kittens bonded with both of them, and I'd swear that this had some kind of effect on their resulting temperament, because that was the sweetest two litters of kittens that I'd ever raised.

They didn't really do anything out of the ordinary for two almost full grown cats that were part of the same litter, so I have no idea if they were homosexual felines. Given that they were a pair of cats of unknown provenance who followed my dad home together (well, actually, one of them followed my dad home from walking the dog, and then the other cat followed her home the next day) and became pregnant before we could get them to a vet after determining that, yes, they had adopted us and no, we couldn't keep them from getting into the house, I have no idea if they were actually siblings, cousins, or as unrelated as cats in the same state can be.


I read somewhere that when cats bring you a half-dead rodent, they're trying to teach you to hunt the way their mother taught them. "Look, I've mostly killed it for you. This really shouldn't be difficult. Bite it already!"

As have I. If it weren't for the risk of disease, I'd've almost gotten one of my friends to see what the next stage of having a cat teach a human how to hunt went. :smallamused:

[Kneenibble]

They also have more bacteria on their claws than a komodo dragon does in its mouth. They can cause some nasty infections.

On the plus side, Eucalyptus trees have a tendency to explode, limiting deaths by ugly ass pudgy infection machine.

...they explode?! :eek:

Don't platypodes have a debilitatingly painful venom in their claws or their bite too?

[Elemental]

Indeed they do.
Set fire to them and the eucalyptus oil will burst into flames, resulting in a tree that has the potential to explode.
Surprisingly enough, the trees benefit from being set on fire...

And yes, male platypuses do have debilitatingly painful venom in spines on their back legs.
Not deadly, just agony inducing.

[teratorn]

What's really interesting though, is when two pregnant cats are siblings or friends and they actually lay up and give birth together. They actually started trading kittens with one another, and the kittens bonded with both of them, and I'd swear that this had some kind of effect on their resulting temperament, because that was the sweetest two litters of kittens that I'd ever raised.


Females cats, in particular if related, will team together to protect kittens from male cats. Male cats will kill and eat kittens not related to them.

[pendell]

I've just noticed we have vermin.

Now, I can't let the cat go after it, because that's cruel. And traps probably aren't guaranteed of a quick death.
Poison is probably the best choice in this situation.

Anyway, that's not the problem. The problem is I'm too nice to kill it (it's so adorable with it's little face and hands! It just wants cheese, I can tell!)
Suggestions as to how I can get out of doing the job myself?
Should I trick someone else into doing it?

I had a mouse infestation last year. I dealt with it by setting out mouse traps and poison. I only confirmed one mouse killed, but they left the apartment anyway. It seems that you don't have to kill very many before the rest "get the message" and find easier pickings elsewhere.

Mice are quite intelligent. I assume rats are as well. Because of this, I wasn't able to kill them all and didn't try. On the other hand, because they ARE intelligent, once they realize the house is a death trap, they head out to other houses with less protection. Because they're intelligent, they go where there is maximum gain and minimum threat.

You're looking at non-lethal methods, yes? I can think of at least two things you might try:

1) Non-lethal traps (http://www.wildlife-traps.com/rats.html). Scroll down to "humane rat live trap" . You'll see it's essentially a cage. Put food on one end, the rat runs in one end, the door drops, you've got yourself a caged rat.

Once you've succeeded in capturing a rat, drive it WAY out into the country -- at least 60 miles -- to release it.

2) Ultrasonic rat control (http://www.victorpest.com/resource/lps/vp/sonicpestchaser/index.html?s_kwcid=TC|1026044|ultrasonic%20rat%20c ontrol||S|e|20304060341&gclid=CN_SwM3Q0q4CFYbe4AodTzQYQA). Generates sound humans can't here but irritates rats. Supposedly they will avoid houses where these are set up because it's the equivalent of having an all night dance rave. However, I'm told these are not foolproof.


Despite these things, and they are worth a try, you should be prepared to resort to lethal methods.

Why? Because no matter how far you drive them out into the country rats, like dogs and cats, are adept at finding their way back home. Also, it's very unlikely you have only a single rat. They travel in families. If you've seen one there are probably many more you haven't seen.


When I was researching the matter, I found a discussion of mice. The author marked the mice with die, released them wayy out in the country, found he was capturing the same mice over again because the mice showing up in the traps had his die on them. So he resorted to lethal methods, killed perhaps five and the rest disappeared.

And it doesn't take many occurrences like this (http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/03/06/two-month-old-baby-dies-after-rats-bite-her-face) before you find all the kindness just sort of drains from your body. Rats carry disease as well.

I would not advise getting a cat to hunt a rat, as despite their reputation they are not efficient hunters when they are housecats. Wild cats live on what they hunt and thus are efficient. A housepet that lives on tuna and other goodies has no pressing reason to be good at hunting, and so probably will not be.


Another bit of advice I got was to set out traps not with food, but with felt or lint. Why? Because if you set out a trap baited with food, you're likely to catch a hunting male mouse, and they are expendable. Whereas if you set bait with something like lint, you're likely to trap a female mouse hunting for nesting materials for their babies. Those are the ones you must kill if you can't drive them out from the infestation. If you kill the females, you kill the family, because the females are the ones who generate baby mice. Killing hunting males is not useful because at their rate of reproduction they can be replaced more quickly than they are killed. No, to get rid of mice or rats you have to kill the females or frighten them away. The object lesson of a dead body and it's particular smell can work to frighten away the creatures. A family member who's simply gone missing for a few days does not.

ETA: If you find you need to kill a mouse or rat yourself, one way I've heard suggested is a big bucket of water. Dump it in, let it drown. It's a horrible death for the creature, but it does have the advantage of you not needing to muck around with your boots or whatever. It also means less of a mess to clean up since once the dirty business is done you can simply pour the mess into a dumpster.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[warty goblin]

ETA: If you find you need to kill a mouse or rat yourself, one way I've heard suggested is a big bucket of water. Dump it in, let it drown. It's a horrible death for the creature, but it does have the advantage of you not needing to muck around with your boots or whatever. It also means less of a mess to clean up since once the dirty business is done you can simply pour the mess into a dumpster.


Respectfully,

Brian P.
Drowning, particularly drowning by tossing something in water and forcing it to swim until it simply cannot anymore, is a vile way to kill something. If you're gonna kill it, stop worrying about a bit of gore and your own squeemishness and do the thing quick and right. Stomp it, smash it, whatever, but get it over with quick. There's no need to torture the beast out of misplaced sensitivity, that's just cowardice and unwillingness to own up to the reality of taking its life. Accept that you are killing it and do the deed right. It'll have a better death, and you'll probably feel better about it as well.

[pendell]

Maybe, but it is the recommended method (http://www.sfdph.org/dph/files/EHSdocs/ehsPublsdocs/pests/Rats_and_Mice.pdf)



Live Rodent Trapping

Live traps can be used to catch rats and mice. Once caught, the rodent can either be killed or released. Relatively humane
ways of disposing of a live rodent are by drowning or freezing: To drown, confine the rodent inside a heavy-duty paper bag,
then submerge the bag in a bucket of water held down with a heavy object such as a brick. To freeze, place the bag inside a
larger plastic garbage bag, seal it and place it in the freezer for a couple of hours. The rodent will lose consciousness before
it freezes. IPM practitioners do not recommended the release of rodents in fields or vacant lots since they find their way back
again.


I've seen that recommendation in other places too. I'm told that in commercial feedlots they use live traps, then dump the captured rats into garbage cans filled with water. Why? Because once a lethal trap has blood on it, rats avoid it. A non-lethal trap without that taint can continue to be effective for a long period of time.

Drowning is not, perhaps, the most humane death but it IS a method of disposal that A) can be accomplished by unskilled labor B) is quite hard to mess up C) leaves minimal mess to clean up after D) minimizes the chance that the rat will either escape or hurt you in its death throes. "Stomping" and "Smashing" can be quite inhumane if you miss and have to do it repeatedly. There's also the chance that rather than kill it you'll break the restraint and allow it to escape. Or allow it to bite you.

Dispose of your rodents however you please. I remind you that I have problems with downstairs neighbors complaining about impact noise which means I am not going to start WHACKING around on the floor, nor am I going to try to transport the creature to a better disposal area. I am going to kill it as quickly and cleanly as I can manage while minimizing the risks of escape or damage to myself or my property. This isn't about courage, this is about vermin disposal.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Asta Kask]

Take it by the hindlegs and smack it's head hard against a hard surface. Instant death.

[dehro]

60 miles is a bit extreme.. on average, a few miles does suffice, as the rat or mice will find distraction (food and shelter) long before they get back to your place.
ultrasound works, depending on the conditions and quality of the tool. there are external ultrasound devices which you stick in the ground. they are solar powered and emit an ultrasound through the rod that sticks in the ground. trouble is, that in extremely compact ground the ultrasound doesn't travel well, so this only works in soft/tender ground. also, the radius of use of these tools is somewhere inbetween 15-30 metres..so you either stick plenty of them in the ground or it's pointless.. they'll walk around. it does protect your veggie patch, but that's about it.
indoor ultrasound works depending ont he environment.. very "crowded" environments tend to drown out the ultrasound which bounces back and forth without properly propagating in the entire room. again, area of effect is kinda smallish.

in other words, they work, but only under ideal conditions and if you know what you're doing.
I sell them, and tend to have to explain this to the businessess I sell them to.

I make my living counting on the fact that somewhere someone wants to get rid of mice and rats... but I wouldn't advocate drowning them unless you're after the pelt..which is worth squat except maybe for making a dice bag?

[pendell]

Take it by the hindlegs and smack it's head hard against a hard surface. Instant death.

Hadn't thought of that. I'll consider it. The last time I tried to humanely kill a mouse by crushing it, the thing got away. I'll consider this approach, though.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[pffh]

Hadn't thought of that. I'll consider it. The last time I tried to humanely kill a mouse by crushing it, the thing got away. I'll consider this approach, though.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

It's also fairly easy to snap their necks and you can probably find dozens of videos online for labs that teach you how to do it.

[Rain Dragon]

Although where there's one mouse, there's always a bunch of them so even if you do find them to kill them there are many more that just learn to stay away from people. Unfortunate, right?

I grew up in the Aussie bush, so when there were non-native rodents it was always a big problem because they'd mess with everything and a cat is completely out of the question because we have so much birdlife here. 'Tis why Elemental has to lock his cats up at night I'd assume.

I've always preferred snap traps and peanut butter even though I'm too much of a wuss to touch the traps or rodents. I'd use BBQ tongs (the longer ones) and the snap traps which are easy to open, not the traditional ones you find in cartoons like Looney Toons.

Good luck with your little furry problems guys! :smallcool:

[pendell]

Well, we found a bit pile of mouse droppings while cleaning up, so we've probably got Little Friends again. Time to break out the traps and poison. The mice in our apartment are intelligent, so we can't afford to give them any breaks or chivalry at all.

Still, this teaches me to count my blessings (http://www.michaelyon-online.com/curses.htm). You think a plague of mice is trouble? This family in the Democratic Republic of Congo has a house infested by venomous snakes. They've killed 74 cobras in the house so far.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[warty goblin]

Still, this teaches me to count my blessings (http://www.michaelyon-online.com/curses.htm). You think a plague of mice is trouble? This family in the Democratic Republic of Congo has a house infested by venomous snakes. They've killed 74 cobras in the house so far.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
On the upside, I bet they don't have mice anymore.

[Riverdance]

Rat-sized snap traps are also made.

And they will break your fingers like twigs if you're not careful.