Have a problem need proper advice

[robertmdwill]

I have recently become the DM of our group because the old DM is being "transferred away". So my question is, I made a troll fighter(CR 11) for my group to fight and thought everything is fine then the old DM who is currently being a PC claims that the Troll was actually CR18. I have only DM'ed a few times so I am by no means an expert so harsh remarks are allowed but frowned upon.

Can you please review my troll and tell me what his CR is and if there are strong errors.

Grolgas (tank)
Troll, fighter 6 LE
AC 29 FF 24 Touch 9
(-1 size, +5 natural , +8 Full plate , +2 Shield, heavy steel, +2 ring of protection +1 Dex )
HD: 12
HP: 172 (6d8+48, 6d10+56)
Fort +18 Ref +7 Will +2
Base Atk +10 Grp +23
Special Attack - Rend: 2d6+12
Attack: Claw +17 (1d6+8) +12 bite (1d4+4)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +19 1d6+8, or +18/+13 Long sword(1d8+8 19-20/x2) Bite +12(1d6+4)
Space 10 ft. (2 squares) Reach 10 ft. (2 squares)
Abilities Str 27(+8) Dex 17(+3) Con 26(+8) Int 13(-1) Wis 6(-2) Cha 6(-2)
Feats: Weapon Focus (long sword), Combat Expertise, Improved toughness
Improved combat expertise
Gear:
+2 Full plate
Shield, heavy steel
+2 ring of protection

thank you very much.

[CTrees]

For reference, what level is the party?

[robertmdwill]

The party average is 12, rounded down.

[Telonius]

In no way is this a CR 18. Especially considering a Troll Hunter is just a troll with 6 levels of Ranger, and is only CR 11. The biggest differences between this and the published Troll Hunter are the feats, and the fact that you dumped Cha and Wis to benefit some of your physical stats.

EDIT: He's probably confusing CR with ECL. The troll is ECL 17. (6 character levels, 6 racial hitdice, five level adjustment). Which means, if he were playing as a PC, he'd need enough XP to reach level 18 in order to get the next level of Fighter (or whatever he wants to take).

[Pilo]

First thing: As he is now a PC, it is no longer his business because his character does not know anything about CR (Well, he may if he has Knowledge(D&D 3.5 Pen and Paper Tabletop) but I do not think so).
You may have made your monster weaker or improved it.

Second thing: You were right, it is CR 11.

Third thing: In a metagame point of view, the DM has always the last word. Even with proof because it is your game now and if you want, you can homebrew everything (It is somewhere in the DMG).

[Parra]

While this is true, homebrewing overpowered underCR'd creatures just for the lulz and with no regard for the rules is a pretty lame move too.

Also its good to remember that the Old DM is used to being in the know about everything going on (and he may be coaching the new GM slightly), being a little gentle in taking the reigns off him wouldnt hurt.

[robertmdwill]

He feels he is couching but in most aspects, keeping in mind he is my friend, seems to be reading all of my battles and using them to keep the party alive. IE saying he will play in character after reading over the quests and giving tips then completely stuffs/finds any secrets or ambushes planned in the quest.
(Back on topic)
In this instance he is saying that the trolls they fought were (there were 3 and the one i listed) CR 18, don't think he added the +2CR from being a group(DMG pg37), and that the group will be awarded 86,400xp/5 instead of the 16,200xp/5(with the +2 added).
To top it off, I award xp once they leave the dungeon, between sessions he decided on leaving the dungeon and leveled his character without a single word to me.
I apologize deeply about ranting but I really had to let it out to people whom have played before but are biased.

EDIT: I also showed him the troll "build" on a previous night, used him as a "pre-boss), awarded the proper xp for being CR11(2,400) and he did not mention anything at that time.

[Telonius]

3 regular trolls (CR 5) plus the one above (CR 11) would be an Encounter Level of 12. If you mean that there were four of the one above (4 CR 11's), then yeah, the Encounter Level is 15 and you'd probably be giving out around 2400 XP to a 4-person, 12th-level party. (d20srd has an Encounter Calculator here (http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/), or you can figure it out from the tables in the DMG).

Even fighting four of those things isn't (or shouldn't be) as difficult as fighting an Ancient Silver dragon, or a Nightcrawler. Those actually are CR 18 encounters.

[nedz]

Well He's metagaming - which is bad play. Its not terrible, and it is common, but its not good play either.
And he's also wrong about the Troll's CR.

It sounds like you need to be a little more assertive.

[KillianHawkeye]

Tell him that he can't give himself XP or level himself up until you say he can. You are the DM, you control when these things happen. No exceptions.

Giving yourself XP is cheating, and cheating cannot be tolerated.

[robertmdwill]

Thank you to everyone for their great intellectual input. I am very glad that I was introduced to this forum by and even more excited to contribute back in the very near future.

[erikun]

This is CR 11, as others have stated. CR 5 Troll +6 levels of Fighter = CR 11.

The fact that it has both an AC and to-hit +8 points higher than what is likely standard at that level (looking at the Troll Hunter monster entry) is a bit worrying; unless you have a very strong party, that's quite a difference from the baseline.

It would not be unusual to represent such a difficulty increase with bonus XP, especially against a melee-centric party, but we are talking a +2 CR at best. There is no way that troll is anywhere near what a CR 17 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#marilith) can do.

[robertmdwill]

The fact that it has both an AC and to-hit +8 points higher than what is likely standard at that level (looking at the Troll Hunter monster entry) is a bit worrying; unless you have a very strong party, that's quite a difference from the baseline.
CR 17 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#marilith) can do.
yeah i was informed and corrected on my mistake by StevenO in the WoTC forum. i think ill fix my error and put this guy into my future use folder.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, you need to bring your 'friend' down to heel, he's heavily metagaming and outright cheating. If worst comes to worst, remove him from the playgroup and make time to hang out with him outside of D&D sessions.