Fiend of Possession feat help

[Igneel]

As the title says, I am building a Fiend of Possession, but I am in need of some feat choosing as I plan to stay in a host/item the majority of the time and will rarely come out in my normal form. My main form of tactics is possessing and animating items (or noncontinuous objects like clouds of dust, or pools of water) while placing Curses on said items for the giggles.

The build is a Kaorti (transformed human, 2 HD/2 LA) Beguiler 1/Fiend of Possession 5. Base stats are Str 11, Dex 14, Con 13, Wis 13, Int 18, and Cha 17 and with the Kaorti transformation stats this gets changed to Str 7, Dex 18, Con 13, Wis 13, Int 22, and Cha 23.

I currently only have one feat decided on, and that's on a homebrewed VoP fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140428) the DM okay'd after we talked about the mechanics behind my possessing (riding in) things while not possessing (owning) said things. Besides that, the Dm has alright okayed the use of Core, BoVD, and anything from Libris Mortis, Heroes of Horror or anything else can be requested, but needs to have a feature in the characters background.

Can I get some suggestions?

[Igneel]

Nothing so far? Not even after 23-ish views?

[Igneel]

Shameless bump is shameless. 55 views, and no suggestions... really?

Any help would be much appreciated, anything at all to give some ideas as to some practical ideas/strategies if I ever get knocked out of my possessed creature/item.

[Ingus]

You know, your character design is not usual at all, so I guess no one has ever tried it.

I'm a big fan of fiend of possession, so I built some in the past. But let me tell you: you've entered in the PrC too soon for my taste. (have you the prereq, by the way?)

You're asking something very difficult because you may not have equipment, you have no significant base class feature, you haven't a signature form of attack, so there's no easy way to help you.

You may minmax intimidate or diplomacy and choosing feats accordingly, you may dip more into beguiler and try to improve casting (silent and still spell would be good investment only if you've got - or plan to have - some good spell to cast), you may improve your capability to deal damage (Improved Unarmed Strike + Improved Grapple? Superior Unarmed Strike[ToB]?)

I find quite difficult to suggest you any good choose without knowing what you want from this PC

[Ezekiul]

You had a similar idea to what i had, i was think more alphonse elric from full metal alchemist so I was trying a more martial build, but the dark speech/binding naberius is a good choice, or some form of mental action/meldshaping feat lines.

[Igneel]

You know, your character design is not usual at all, so I guess no one has ever tried it.

I'm a big fan of fiend of possession, so I built some in the past. But let me tell you: you've entered in the PrC too soon for my taste. (have you the prereq, by the way?)
2 Outsider HD = +3 base Will then with Beguiler I meet the final +2 for the +5
Along with Outsider HD I get Skill points which meet that requirement
Kaorti are Outsiders with the Evil Subtype.
Normally I would have to agree with you that I did it way too early. But with it being a pbp game starting at 10th and the DM is okay with it. Only reason why I am going with it is because of how pbp games seem to die out and I wanted to at least help my willing host some.


You're asking something very difficult because you may not have equipment, you have no significant base class feature, you haven't a signature form of attack, so there's no easy way to help you.
I understand, and I thank you for giving me what advice you can.


You may minmax intimidate or diplomacy and choosing feats accordingly, you may dip more into beguiler and try to improve casting (silent and still spell would be good investment only if you've got - or plan to have - some good spell to cast), you may improve your capability to deal damage (Improved Unarmed Strike + Improved Grapple? Superior Unarmed Strike[ToB]?)
I planned on actually continuing Beguiler with a dip into Mindbender after the final level of FoP. Intimidate and Diplomacy boosting sounds like a good idea as well as eventually I will be going 'interrogator' with prisoners.


I find quite difficult to suggest you any good choose without knowing what you want from this PC
I apologize for the difficulty and for seeming impatient.

In the game we are some remaining evil forces on the world after a cataclysm occured. My character was a human that was turned into a Kaorti by a Cyst on the Material Plane and now a 'advance scout' to check possible locations to find new 'recruits'. During my travels I ran into another player that is a evil cleric focused around Mother Cyst necromancy. Working together (at least for a time) he gets sacrifices/test subjects while I get to handpick new recruits. Along with him giving me a safe place to build a Cyst along with a body for hiding in.


You had a similar idea to what i had, i was think more alphonse elric from full metal alchemist so I was trying a more martial build, but the dark speech/binding naberius is a good choice, or some form of mental action/meldshaping feat lines.
That is an interesting idea, and unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with ToB/ToM/MoI as I am a slow learner. :smalltongue: Even after all these years of playing I barely delve into pure casters let alone newer mechanics.

Thank you both for your suggestions, they do help me in some regards at least.

[King Atticus]

A buddy of mine is building a FoP right now so we've been kicking around some ideas.

To be honest the coolest thing we've come up with is ruled out by your VoP. We came up with getting a greataxe with the sizing property. He can carry it around as a fine item but when he wants to use it pull it out size it up to colossal and possess it and just go to town on people. It would be treated as a colossal animated object and he'd be rolling lots of dice...good times :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and having him possess an arrow so we can shoot him and grant him 100ft movement.

But, You may look at the feat to quicken your abilities 3 times per day. So if you are out of a host you can move your speed go ethereal quickly and possess them in one turn.

[FearlessGnome]

During my travels I ran into another player that is a evil cleric focused around Mother Cyst necromancy. Working together (at least for a time) he gets sacrifices/test subjects while I get to handpick new recruits. Along with him giving me a safe place to build a Cyst along with a body for hiding in.You make it sound like we are such bad people! I thought we agreed we were both just doing what Needed To Be Done to bring our peoples back from the brink of extinction. :smalltongue:



That is an interesting idea, and unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with ToB/ToM/MoI as I am a slow learner. :smalltongue: Even after all these years of playing I barely delve into pure casters let alone newer mechanics.If you ever do get the urge to try out a new system, ToM and MoI are both a lot of fun, and all things considered easier to use then Full Casting, once you have read the chapters.

One thing you could do, since you as a Fiend of Possession will like supernatural abilities, is to dip into Ur-Priest and go into Dweomerkeeper.
Dweomerkeeper is usually too strong for most campaigns, but since you are so many caster levels behind it may be allowed. Among other things, the class allows you to spontaneously convert any of your spells into a supernatural ability (A few times per day).

You may not have all the feats required to make this viable, but you could bring it up with the DM and see what he says.

[Igneel]

A buddy of mine is building a FoP right now so we've been kicking around some ideas.

To be honest the coolest thing we've come up with is ruled out by your VoP. We came up with getting a greataxe with the sizing property. He can carry it around as a fine item but when he wants to use it pull it out size it up to colossal and possess it and just go to town on people. It would be treated as a colossal animated object and he'd be rolling lots of dice...good times :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and having him possess an arrow so we can shoot him and grant him 100ft movement.
Well... Normally I would say there is nothing keeping my host from picking this up besides the fact that the Dm is enforcing the cataclysm = most magic items destroyed thing and is only giving us 1st level wealth + spending the Exp cost on additional magic items.
But I guess that can be fixed by the fact I can just use my Magic Item ability to turn any old weapon into a Morphing/Sizing weapon and go to town. For some reason I hear Bruce Banner's voice when I think more about this... "You won't like me when I'm ANGRY!" :smallbiggrin:

Arrow travel is the only way to travel for a single round, especially after cursing said arrow after being released and before hitting the enemy.


But, You may look at the feat to quicken your abilities 3 times per day. So if you are out of a host you can move your speed go ethereal quickly and possess them in one turn.
Remind me again where that feat is, I think I remember, but so far haven't found it. Thanks for the tips btw.


You make it sound like we are such bad people! I thought we agreed we were both just doing what Needed To Be Done to bring our peoples back from the brink of extinction. :smalltongue:
Don't try sugar-coating it, especially after all those dastardly meetings we've had making plans and twisting our dastardly mustaches while contemplating how to take over the world. :smallbiggrin: We are what we are, and I'm sure the others aren't going to be nice about their plans either.


If you ever do get the urge to try out a new system, ToM and MoI are both a lot of fun, and all things considered easier to use then Full Casting, once you have read the chapters.
Oh don't get me wrong, I have had dealings with them in the past just not as much that I would feel comfortable. When I Dm-ed in the past I actually took my copies out just to refresh my memory on some of the mechanics so players can play, and it helps when they help. Binding I understand enough, and I get the gist of Incarnum and Manuevers. I just don't think that I would use them correctly like a first time fighter that only stands around and full attacks rather then actually moving out of dangers way.
Invocation-users are my solution to my fear of arcane full-casters :smalltongue:


One thing you could do, since you as a Fiend of Possession will like supernatural abilities, is to dip into Ur-Priest and go into Dweomerkeeper.
Dweomerkeeper is usually too strong for most campaigns, but since you are so many caster levels behind it may be allowed. Among other things, the class allows you to spontaneously convert any of your spells into a supernatural ability (A few times per day).

You may not have all the feats required to make this viable, but you could bring it up with the DM and see what he says.
So many PrC's so little time before the enforced 'no fighting children' act is lifted, so little time. Will have to Pm him about these suggestions and just might spend my feats trying to meet the requirements if allowed. :smalltongue:

[FearlessGnome]

So many PrC's so little time before the enforced 'no fighting children' act is lifted, so little time. Will have to Pm him about these suggestions and just might spend my feats trying to meet the requirements if allowed. :smalltongue:I think what will happen when that Act is lifted is that everyone will gang up on the first person to break the peace. It's bad for business to lose allies.

Of course, once World Domination/Ascension/End of Campaign draws near, then party cohesion will melt like undead in the dessert.

[Ingus]

Igneel, you may find all the useful information online if you search with google.

To optimize Intimidate you may take "Imperious Command" (Drow of the Underdark) or the obvious Skill Focus (intimidate).

[FearlessGnome]

Obscure fact: When you get locked up in an Otyugh hole, Iron Will is not the only feat you can get. You can choose Skill Focus: Intimidate as well.

[Ezekiul]

Quicken spell-like ability is in tome of magic iirc.

[King Atticus]

Remind me again where that feat is, I think I remember, but so far haven't found it.


Quicken spell-like ability is in tome of magic iirc.

Just took a look and noticed two things. First all the FoP abilities are Supernatural and Second there doesn't seem to be a Quicken (Su) feat

Sorry about that, for some reason I had it in my head that Ethereal Form was a Spell-Like...I must have been smoking something. :smallannoyed:

[nedz]

Feats:
Ability Focus(Curse) and Ability Focus(Possession) MM would add 2 to the DCs

How are you casting Beguiler spells ?
Are these relevant: Eschew Materials ? Still Spell ?
Practiced Spellcaster +4 Caster level
Are your Beguiler spells even relevant ?

Leadership - to get yourself a mount. You could even pretend that this is your main character ?
Obtain Familier and possibly Improved Familier - same idea.

Nymph's Kiss - Exalted, so maybe not.

Beyond this we are into the realms of generaly useful, but not exceptional, feats like Improved Initiative and Improved Toughness

[King Atticus]

Leadership - to get yourself a mount. You could even pretend that this is your main character ?

We hit on this idea too. But we weren't smart enough to come up with Leadership...we were just going to hire a War Troll for him to possess. :smallbiggrin:

[Akal Saris]

With that high Int/Cha and the super early +5 Will save, you'd qualify for the Dark Speech chain of feats from BoVD and Elder Evils. Those could be quite a lot of fun since they appear to be (Su) abilities that you could use as an axe or whatever (possibly you'd need to wait until you had telepathy though).
I'm assuming that you're evil despite the altered VoP anyhow.
vile feat at 1st and 5th HD for worshipping an elder evil as per Elder Evils. And
It would be even better if you could be cheesy and get a free of course 1 level of binder for naberius and healing ability damage helps this out just as much as it helps a diplomancer.

[Vixsor Lumin]

Hey! Not all of us are evil! I just want to study and learn more about life and the limits organic body! ....and what happens when you add gratuitous amounts of negative energy.....and drain them of their will to live.... then make them live beyond death.... but its all in the name of learning!

[Igneel]

Just took a look and noticed two things. First all the FoP abilities are Supernatural and Second there doesn't seem to be a Quicken (Su) feat

Sorry about that, for some reason I had it in my head that Ethereal Form was a Spell-Like...I must have been smoking something. :smallannoyed:

Pfft... I had to check this out afterwards and totally forgot that all their abilities are Su or Ex. Don't feel bad, I must of been doing the same stuff.


Feats:
Ability Focus(Curse) and Ability Focus(Possession) MM would add 2 to the DCs

How are you casting Beguiler spells ?
Are these relevant: Eschew Materials ? Still Spell ?
Practiced Spellcaster +4 Caster level
Are your Beguiler spells even relevant ?

Leadership - to get yourself a mount. You could even pretend that this is your main character ?
Obtain Familier and possibly Improved Familier - same idea.

Nymph's Kiss - Exalted, so maybe not.

Beyond this we are into the realms of generaly useful, but not exceptional, feats like Improved Initiative and Improved Toughness
Ability Focus's text mentions Special attacks, so I was questioning whether it would work for at least Curse.

1 level dip into Beguiler, kinda debating about going another route like Spellthief but Beguiler gets me Charm person which opens Mindbender at the next level. I guess Beguiler spells wouldn't be as relevant being 9 levels behind thanks to the PrC, HD and LA.

Riding in a fellow player, and honestly was debating about taking Leadership just to have several Kaorti followers that are loyal to me.
Obtain Familiar and Improved will have to wait till I have a better caster level, but this might be interesting if I can get a Imp or something to rid in invisibly.

Nymph's Kiss is a flat out no because of it being Exalted sadly.

Improved Initiative and Toughness were ones that along with Weapon Finesse were guaranteed if I didn't get advice.


With that high Int/Cha and the super early +5 Will save, you'd qualify for the Dark Speech chain of feats from BoVD and Elder Evils. Those could be quite a lot of fun since they appear to be (Su) abilities that you could use as an axe or whatever (possibly you'd need to wait until you had telepathy though).
I'm assuming that you're evil despite the altered VoP anyhow.
vile feat at 1st and 5th HD for worshipping an elder evil as per Elder Evils. And
It would be even better if you could be cheesy and get a free of course 1 level of binder for naberius and healing ability damage helps this out just as much as it helps a diplomancer.
I'm personally evil in the chaotic sense, but yeah several vile feats from Elder Evils at least caught my eye such as Apostate for bonus against divine spells.
Hmm... Binder is starting to look more and more appealing after seeing that at least its possible applications to the build and it still meets the +2 Will save I need.


Hey! Not all of us are evil! I just want to study and learn more about life and the limits organic body! ....and what happens when you add gratuitous amounts of negative energy.....and drain them of their will to live.... then make them live beyond death.... but its all in the name of learning!
Yeah... I'm not touching this...

[Ezekiul]

I did a Human (otherworldy as the bonus feat) with human paragon 1/Binder 1/Marshal 1 for my entry into FoP. all 3 had +2 base will saves

[King Atticus]

I did a Human (otherworldy as the bonus feat) with human paragon 1/Binder 1/Marshal 1 for my entry into FoP. all 3 had +2 base will saves

Did your DM just hand-wave the prerecs for Otherworldly? Straight-up human doesn't normally qualify for that feat (Prerequisite: Deep Imaskari (Underdark [Deep Imaskar]), elf (Evermeet, Sildeyuir), or spirit folk (Ashane)).

If so, why not just try to get him to hand-wave the type restrictions on the class itself and save the feat slot?

[nedz]

I was going to suggest Warlock instead of Beguiler, but apparently you need 6 levels for Charm Person.

How about an unseelie option ?

Can you take the Fey-Touched template ?
+1 LA gets you Charm Person 1/day

Half Fey is a lot better - lots of character level based SLAs, including Charm Person. +2 LA, but there is an option to only take 1 level of a racial class. This is easy to find with any search engine of your choice.

I don't know Kaorti: you have to be a living, corporeal creature for these.

[Ezekiul]

Champions of Valor changed otherworldly to allow humans. essentially, its makes it a regional feat for humans, not a racial one, and gives you the option to take it. The celestial attended birth is the paragraph that talks about it. (i just roleplayed falling from the angelic culture.)