It got worse: the $100,000 Serini question

[DreadPirateDB]

So with the entire Draketooth clan apparently wiped out by Familicide, there's one burning question left unaddressed. How much did Serini love Girard?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html

V might have killed both of the remaining defenders of the gate.

[Capt Spanner]

Serini wouldn't have been a blood relation of Girard, even if they had been married, so I doubt the spell would have affected her that way.

[ellindsey]

Serini wouldn't have been a blood relation of Girard, even if they had been married, so I doubt the spell would have affected her that way.

No, but if she had born him a child, she and the child would be dead.

[Tass]

Serini wouldn't have been a blood relation of Girard, even if they had been married, so I doubt the spell would have affected her that way.

But they might have made a child.

[paddyfool]

Serini wouldn't have been a blood relation of Girard, even if they had been married, so I doubt the spell would have affected her that way.

Read the latest comic, and you'll see that yes, it would.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Roland Itiative]

Elan's jokes aside, are halflings and humans even compatible? It's probable that, even assuming a real romance where there appears to be only a one-sided crush, no child was born.

Also, is Serini really the defender of Kragoor's Gate? I always assumed she prepared the defences of the place then kept on travelling on her own (reason why she knew the location of every Gate), instead of becoming a permanent defender of the place.

[DreadPirateDB]

Elan's jokes aside, are halflings and humans even compatible? It's probable that, even assuming a real romance where there appears to be only a one-sided crush, no child was born.

Also, is Serini really the defender of Kragoor's Gate? I always assumed she prepared the defences of the place then kept on travelling on her own (reason why she knew the location of every Gate), instead of becoming a permanent defender of the place.

That is true that Serini wasn't planning on directly defending the Kraagor gate. She'd be the last of the Scribble and would know how to defend the gates best. But then if Xykon had her diary, then she might already be dead, too. Looking forward to further revelations.

Having an epic level rogue would be incredibly handy right now, though. I could see an end game that involves stealing Xykon's soul crystal and ressurecting Lirian and Dorukan.

[Grey Watcher]

Is there any indication that Girard reciprocated Serini's feelings? Or was even aware of them? Or that her feelings lasted for more than a few months after that particular diary entry was written?

Also, Shojo's tale explicitly states that Serini wasn't much for settling down, implying that, aftedr the initial setup, she hasn't been attending to Kraagor's Gate.

And what makes you think she was even still alive by the time V cast Familicide? Do you think Xykon got her diary by asking nicely?

[t209]

Is there any indication that Girard reciprocated Serini's feelings? Or was even aware of them? Or that her feelings lasted for more than a few months after that particular diary entry was written?

Also, Shojo's tale explicitly states that Serini wasn't much for settling down, implying that, aftedr the initial setup, she hasn't been attending to Kraagor's Gate.

And what makes you think she was even still alive by the time V cast Familicide? Do you think Xykon got her diary by asking nicely?

Maybe the rogue steal her diary (Natural 20) but killed by Xykon along the way and Hinjo said that he couldn't contact her.

[Anarion]

And what makes you think she was even still alive by the time V cast Familicide? Do you think Xykon got her diary by asking nicely?

...Sure, why not. It would be so unexpected from Xykon, it just might work! :smalltongue:

More likely is that Serini had long since filled up that particular journal and left it somewhere thinking it was safe, but Xykon ended up finding it instead. There's no particular reason she would carry volumes and volumes of journal entries written over decades on her person.

Of course, she could just be dead of old age at this point, but we've heard almost nothing about her, so it's hard to predict how or if she'll come into the story at all.

[Fish]

Serini was a rogue, yes? Her diaries were encoded, too.

Do we know they're not ... well, lying?

[Ron Miel]

Elan's jokes aside, are halflings and humans even compatible?

One of the many storylines in yafgc (http://yafgc.net/?id=1)is a female halfling rogue and male human who fall in love, marry, and are currently raising a child.

[DBear]

Girard's kids look human-size (or at least no shorter than the other members of that generation) according to the wall chart in 842, so it is rather unlikely they are Serini's.

[t209]

One of the many storylines in yafgc (http://yafgc.net/?id=1)is a female halfling rogue and male human who fall in love, marry, and are currently raising a child.

But according to the word of Rich (the other rich), Some inter species romance produce only the offspring of its mother (No mixed). I remember a hobgoblin child of human and hobgoblin.

[hamishspence]

It probably depends on the writer. I recall a goblin-human hybrid in the Forgotten Realms short story collection Realms of Infamy who looked like a mixture of the two.

[Grey Watcher]

...

More likely is that Serini had long since filled up that particular journal and left it somewhere thinking it was safe, but Xykon ended up finding it instead. There's no particular reason she would carry volumes and volumes of journal entries written over decades on her person.

...

Curse you, and your insidious My-Little-Pony-Enhanced Lawyer Logic! :smallwink:

[DreadPirateDB]

It probably depends on the writer. I recall a goblin-human hybrid in the Forgotten Realms short story collection Realms of Infamy who looked like a mixture of the two.

We already have in strip evidence that dragon blood promotes inter-species romance, too.

[KingFlameHawk]

Question: (I should note my knowledge of 3.5 is limited) lets say for this question they did have a child and she was targeted by the spell, would an epic level rouge have enough of a reflex save to avoid being killed. Would it even allow a save. There are plenty of threads about how Girard could have survived the spell but I am wondering if she could as well.

[Aaron]

Question: (I should note my knowledge of 3.5 is limited) lets say for this question they did have a child and she was targeted by the spell, would an epic level rouge have enough of a reflex save to avoid being killed. Would it even allow a save. There are plenty of threads about how Girard could have survived the spell but I am wondering if she could as well.

Thats basically been the sum of the "could Girard have survived" debate. The argument made is that IF familicide allowed a reflex or will save, then surely some dragons could have been lucky and made that save. Also that Girard may have survived by being heavily and epically warded with spells and magic items.

[Ron Miel]

But according to the word of Rich (the other rich), Some inter species romance produce only the offspring of its mother (No mixed). I remember a hobgoblin child of human and hobgoblin.

I don't recall that. The only other hybrid I remember is Glon.

I wonder what Bob & Gwen's kids will look like.

[Unisus]

While i'm also a reader of YAFGC, i also know several different systems/worlds. And there are many differences between them, so you can not tell what's possible in one system by looking how it is in others.

Fact is, that in D&D there are halfbloods from certain race combinations, but i can not remember to ever have heard of a half-halfling in D&D (i know, that for example in DSA it's explicitely stated that humans and dwarves can not have children together - one of the two main reasons why human women are so much into dwarven men)

[Anarion]

Curse you, and your insidious My-Little-Pony-Enhanced Lawyer Logic! :smallwink:

:smallsmile:


Thats basically been the sum of the "could Girard have survived" debate. The argument made is that IF familicide allowed a reflex or will save, then surely some dragons could have been lucky and made that save. Also that Girard may have survived by being heavily and epically warded with spells and magic items.

This is right. I'd just like to add a few more details.

First, it's unlikely that the spell allows any save. This is because saves of any difficulty automatically succeed on a roll of 20, and the panels of dead dragons and now dead humans do not show a survival rate of 1 in 20, or even a worse ratio assuming bad luck.

Being heavily warded is a possibility, however, especially if Girard and/or Serini had wards that included their own epic magic. Even if familicide bypassed something like death ward, it would be much harder to bypass an epic spell that protected against death magic.

Additionally, one possible condition to limit a spell like familicide would be a hit dice limit per target. The ancient black dragon had 31 hit dice, which is quite a lot, but it's possible that the spell only affects targets with equal or fewer hit dice to the originating creature. Perhaps it even has a penalty, such as affecting HD-10, so that only creatures with 21 hit dice or less were affected, thus leaving out most epic characters. This is pure, baseless conjecture of course, but I just want to show that there are various ways to exempt certain characters while still giving the spell broad reach.

[SoC175]

First, it's unlikely that the spell allows any save. This is because saves of any difficulty automatically succeed on a roll of 20, and the panels of dead dragons and now dead humans do not show a survival rate of 1 in 20, or even a worse ratio assuming bad luck.Note that some dragons are shown to be hit more than once. So maybe the spell contains a "if target saves repeat X-times" clause. Chance of rolling three natural 20's in a row are pretty slim

[Zigg'rrauglurr]

With all this talk of Serini relations, I came across to the Mother of epileptic trees...

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/15680898.jpg\

PS: Sorry, having an strange day and thought this was funny... I don't know...

[Fish]

I believe the d20 rules say a natural 20 on a saving throw is not an automatic success. It is possible in theory for the DC to simply be too high to resist. (That might have been the fiends' purpose for the 3-way soul splice when just 1 would have done the job).

[Herald Alberich]

Serini was a rogue, yes? Her diaries were encoded, too.

Do we know they're not ... well, lying?

Yes. Team Evil is headed to the Windy Canyon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html), the real location of Girard's Gate.

[MoonCat]

I mentioned that possibility in the last thread, IIRC. Let's hope not, although I kinda doubt it will.

And remember, she wasn't protecting the gate personally, she used monsters. It's officially Kraggor's.

[KillianHawkeye]

I believe the d20 rules say a natural 20 on a saving throw is not an automatic success. It is possible in theory for the DC to simply be too high to resist. (That might have been the fiends' purpose for the 3-way soul splice when just 1 would have done the job).

Actually....

Automatic Failures and Successes

A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success.
source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#savingThrows)



I agree that Familicide probably did not allow for a save to avoid the affects. This is Epic Level, we can make a spell that just kills people.

[SaintRidley]

I believe the d20 rules say a natural 20 on a saving throw is not an automatic success.

Natural 20 on a saving throw is an automatic success.


Why would anyone think that if Familicide offered a saving throw that it would be a Reflex save? If there's a save, it's Fortitude. And I highly doubt there's a save at all.

[KillianHawkeye]

Why would anyone think that if Familicide offered a saving throw that it would be a Reflex save? If there's a save, it's Fortitude. And I highly doubt there's a save at all.

They probably think that because the effect resembles lightning.

[Sith_Happens]

But they might have made a child.

So, would that be a three-fourthling?

[Jay R]

Elan's jokes aside, are halflings and humans even compatible?

Are you really suggesting the possibility that halflings are less genetically close to humans than dragons?

[Oindoth]

Are you really suggesting the possibility that halflings are less genetically close to humans than dragons?

Dragons don't mate with humans as dragons. They use their Alternate Form ability to take the form of a genetically compatible creature, and then mate with them.

[DreadPirateDB]

Natural 20 on a saving throw is an automatic success.


Why would anyone think that if Familicide offered a saving throw that it would be a Reflex save? If there's a save, it's Fortitude. And I highly doubt there's a save at all.

Well, there is this: Dextrous Fortitude (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#dexterousFortitude), an Epic Rogue feat that allows "Once per round, when targeted by an effect that requires a Fortitude saving throw, you may make a Reflex save instead to avoid the effect (evasion is not applicable). "

[Othesemo]

Dragons don't mate with humans as dragons. They use their Alternate Form ability to take the form of a genetically compatible creature, and then mate with them.

Nitpick- If the dragons were actually changing their genetics, the child would be full-blooded human (or elf, or whatever), not half-dragon. It would inherit the genetics of the dragon at the time of conception, not the time after Alternate Form wore off. Judging by the presence of draconic traits in, well, half-dragons, I think it's safe to say the alternate form doesn't actually change someone's genetics. It just makes the act of mating much less awkward.

Also, as this is D&D, I think it's fairly safe to assume that, even if halflings and humans can't mate, Girard is literally an epic level wizard- he has likely passed such limitations decades ago.

[Sith_Happens]

Nitpick- If the dragons were actually changing their genetics, the child would be full-blooded human (or elf, or whatever), not half-dragon. It would inherit the genetics of the dragon at the time of conception, not the time after Alternate Form wore off. Judging by the presence of draconic traits in, well, half-dragons, I think it's safe to say the alternate form doesn't actually change someone's genetics. It just makes the act of mating much less awkward.

Also, as this is D&D, I think it's fairly safe to assume that, even if halflings and humans can't mate, Girard is literally an epic level wizard- he has likely passed such limitations decades ago.

Or...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4lp8BRGKBqYOAo8IV0Rbd-WKLeXZMhrzgFIPShYqtXTO0jSEq-PdmcDNF

[Murray]

Nitpick- If the dragons were actually changing their genetics, the child would be full-blooded human (or elf, or whatever), not half-dragon. It would inherit the genetics of the dragon at the time of conception, not the time after Alternate Form wore off. Judging by the presence of draconic traits in, well, half-dragons, I think it's safe to say the alternate form doesn't actually change someone's genetics. It just makes the act of mating much less awkward.
.

I imagine it has less to do with genetics and more to do with how a McRib gets its shape.