creating a shadow monk

[Mrthursday]

So, I've just joined a gaming group and I've been trying to build my character for it. My idea is to build a kind of shadow monk; there are some possibilities there that intrigue me, but I'm having difficulty narrowing these possibilities down.

There are a number of classes and options that would work: the notion was to take Shadow Sun Ninja classes, starting off as a monk. I've seen Person_Man's suggestion about taking a level of Warlock to get the darkness spell, and would probably include that. I love the flavor of the SSN, but the main features would be to get to the point where I can get the bonuses for fighting blind.

However, there are a few other things I'd like to incorporate. It seems to me that fighting in darkness against blinded (and flat-footed) foes while I get bonuses lends itself well to sneak attack, so the ascetic rogue feat seems very handy. The Sun School monk feat also lets you hit for free when you instantly appear next to someone (again, hooray for flat-footed targets and sneak attack), so maybe the spring attack feat progression. That may include some dip into Shadowdancer: nice for hide in plain site, maybe some short-range teleportation. And then there are the dark moon disciple substitutions, also very handy.

This is a lot to balance (and may just be too much), so I wanted to get some feedback. The end result is hopefully a stealthy, mobile monk that fights in shadow. Blind the enemy, take bonuses for fighting in darkness, hit them for sneak attacks, and hop from target to target.

Ideas? Suggestions? Thank you in advance.

[Psyren]

Since you're already looking at ToB, is there a reason you can't be an Unarmed Swordsage? Then you wouldn't have to choose between "rogue" and "monk" or take feats trying to blend them - you'd have both in one class.

Anyway, the other option for "Shadow Monk" is Umbral Disciple from MoI. It has the "you can continue to advance monk" clause, and has some nice shadow-themed abilities, sneak attack, and HiPS. You can even use your shadow abilities to melee and even flank at range.

[Mrthursday]

I'll have to check these out. Not sure I have access to MoI for this, but Swordsage might provide a better option.

[Flickerdart]

You can't deal sneak attack damage if your target has concealment, so you'll need a way to see through your own Darkness if you want to throw SA into the mix.

[Mrthursday]

The Shadow Sun Ninja says that it ignores all penalties for fighting blind; would that take care of the concealment issue? Darkvision is easy enough to get, or would it take more?

[Flickerdart]

"No SA with concealment" isn't a penalty for fighting blind, but a clause of Sneak Attack. Likewise, Darkvision does not penetrate magical darkness.

[Saintheart]

"No SA with concealment" isn't a penalty for fighting blind, but a clause of Sneak Attack. Likewise, Darkvision does not penetrate magical darkness.

The feat At Home In The Deep from Drow of the Underdark does. Although you need darkness as a spell-like ability and darkvision as prerequisites.

[JonRG]

The feat At Home In The Deep from Drow of the Underdark does. Although you need darkness as a spell-like ability and darkvision as prerequisites.

Tiefling meets those requirements. Heck, if he's been bribing his DM regularly with pizza, Pathfinder tiefling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/tiefling) might be an option. (I remember hearing a lot that 3.5 tiefling wasn't worth the LA, but I don't know if PF's version goes too far in the opposite direction.)

[Aeryr]

The feat At Home In The Deep from Drow of the Underdark does. Although you need darkness as a spell-like ability and darkvision as prerequisites.

Aren't warlock invocations spell like abilities?

You can even use the dark template (from tome of magic) for hide in plain sight while in your darkness. There is another feat at drow of the underdark that allows darkness as a swift actions without AoO.

[Psyren]

Tiefling meets those requirements. Heck, if he's been bribing his DM regularly with pizza, Pathfinder tiefling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/tiefling) might be an option. (I remember hearing a lot that 3.5 tiefling wasn't worth the LA, but I don't know if PF's version goes too far in the opposite direction.)

Note that in Pathfinder, Darkvision penetrates magical darkness anyway.

[gkathellar]

I'll have to check these out. Not sure I have access to MoI for this, but Swordsage might provide a better option.

Unarmed Swordsage is almost the definitively better option for what you're trying to do, considering it gets access to the Shadow Hand Discipline.

I'll put in a second vote for Umbral Disciple, too. Not only does it fit, but it's really easy to get into (skills and 1 point of essentia!), and it's really good. For 3 levels and a source of extra essentia, you can get 50% (Su) Concealment and Hide In Plain Sight.

I'd say Azurin Unarmed Swordsage 17/Umbral Disciple 3 is a pretty strong build from the get-go, and has plenty of room for customization.

[JonRG]

Note that in Pathfinder, Darkvision penetrates magical darkness anyway.

Huh, did not catch that. My current tiefling got lucky on the Fiendish Heritage table and sees perfectly in ALL THE DARKNESS.

gkathellar seems to have a pretty good build lined up though.

[Mrthursday]

What customization options are there for sword sage? Not sure what Azurin means, but this looks like a good option. Better than monk with flurry of blows + sneak attack + ability to create/hide in darkness?

[Gullara]

Tiefling meets those requirements. Heck, if he's been bribing his DM regularly with pizza, Pathfinder tiefling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/tiefling) might be an option. (I remember hearing a lot that 3.5 tiefling wasn't worth the LA, but I don't know if PF's version goes too far in the opposite direction.)

Could just take a lesser planetouched, in this case a tiefling, from Player's Guide to Faerun. You get everything the tiefling gets for +0 LA rather than +1. The only difference is rather than having the Outsider type, you are a Humanoid with the Planetouched subtype.

[JonRG]

Could just take a lesser planetouched, in this case a tiefling, from Player's Guide to Faerun. You get everything the tiefling gets for +0 LA rather than +1. The only difference is rather than having the Outsider type, you are a Humanoid with the Planetouched subtype.

That's it? I thought you at least lost darkness.

[Gullara]

That's it? I thought you at least lost darkness.

Thankfully not. I was actually pondering a character with some similar ideas as the OP, and it's one of the things I came across. I wanted to take that At Home In The Deep feat that requires darkvision and Darkness without having to have LA. While Lesser Drow do lose Darkness, Lesser Tieflings don't.

[gkathellar]

What customization options are there for sword sage? Not sure what Azurin means, but this looks like a good option. Better than monk with flurry of blows + sneak attack + ability to create/hide in darkness?

Much better. Swordsage's Assassin Stance and Umbral Disciple both net you some sneak attack - but more importantly, you have maneuvers. I'd suggest you focus on Shadow Blade first, followed by Setting Sun and Diamond Mind.

Azurin is an alternate human race that gets +1 essentia instead of bonus skill points.

As to customization, I just mean that the build has no feat prereqs, no real demands. Lots of room to go where you want with it.

You'll probably want to go for Weapon Finesse + Shadow Blade, though. Since you can afford to drop a single swordsage level w/out slowing down your IL progression, let me throw in a word for Shiba Disciple 1: it's always a good dip for a Wis-heavy build. Master of the Nine is never a bad choice, either, so that might be worth considering.

[Mrthursday]

I think I like the Swordsage idea. Is there a good way to add sneak attack to a monk some other way? I was thinking of the ascetic rogue feat, but it seems like that just gives unarmed damage to rogues.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.