Why gish?

[umbergod]

Why? Its what the githyanki call their hybrid caster/melee. Its irked me to no end that the community calls what I've always called either battlemages or spellswords by a title from a specific race. So in short, Why do you call it a gish?

[Mystify]

I call it a gish because everyone else calls it a gish.

[hymer]

It's short, esoteric and grabs your attention. In other words , it's great jargon material.

[NeoSeraphi]

My personal problem with terms like spellsword or battlemage is they sound too magical. When I play a gish, the magic is just buffs to me. I don't use crowd control, I don't blast, I don't dominate or teleport or anything like that. I just enhance my attacks with spells like greater magic weapon and bite of the were-x and put up some defenses like displacement.

Seriously, every time I play a gish, I try to limit myself to spells with a range of personal. My Int caps at 20, and I put the rest into Strength and Con. So "spellsword", "battlemage", "mystic blade", all that stuff, it just doesn't sound right to me. I'm playing a wizard-lite here. Something like "gish", which sound short, gruff and tough suits me much better.

[umbergod]

My personal problem with terms like spellsword or battlemage is they sound too magical. When I play a gish, the magic is just buffs to me. I don't use crowd control, I don't blast, I don't dominate or teleport or anything like that. I just enhance my attacks with spells like greater magic weapon and bite of the were-x and put up some defenses like displacement.

Seriously, every time I play a gish, I try to limit myself to spells with a range of personal. My Int caps at 20, and I put the rest into Strength and Con. So "spellsword", "battlemage", "mystic blade", all that stuff, it just doesn't sound right to me. I'm playing a wizard-lite here. Something like "gish", which sound short, gruff and tough suits me much better.

See spellsword sounds exactly like what you're describing, at least to me it does. A melee combatant that uses his/her magic to enhance his melee capability, with a handful of flashier spells up their sleeve to get the hell outta dodge if things get hairy. Gish just makes me think of dirty githyanki pirates.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Gish is short. Spellsword is a PrC, so you can't use it a a general term. Battlemage makes me think of a typical caster, but wearing armor, or even just a typical caster with spells chosen for the battlefield. Mystic blade sounds weird.

[Saph]

Why do you call it a gish?

Because everyone else does.

Plus it's short and it sounds cooler than "fighter/mage". :smallbiggrin:

[NeoSeraphi]

See spellsword sounds exactly like what you're describing, at least to me it does. A melee combatant that uses his/her magic to enhance his melee capability, with a handful of flashier spells up their sleeve to get the hell outta dodge if things get hairy. Gish just makes me think of dirty githyanki pirates.

Hmm..how can I put this? Oh I know. Have you ever heard of the thogaturge? The barbarian who pretends to be a wizard? Think of that, but in reverse. A wizard who uses all of his spells to basically fight like a barbarian. I don't want my character to be magical, I don't even use my cantrip slots because the ability to detect magic or create light just bothers me. The word "spell" isn't even in my mind when I'm playing a gish. I have a bunch of class features that buff my character, basically like a rage. The only difference is that I'm playing a dangerous game where I have about half as many hit points as a barbarian does, and I have to kill everyone else before they kill me.

Also, I can kill people without tanking my AC, so that's good.

Anyway, I can see where you're coming from, with the word "gish" not being a particularly pleasant term, but unfortunately it has simply been ingrained in this culture since around 2nd edition, I believe. I'm pretty sure that if you just use "spellsword" in your posts on this site though, everyone will know what you're referring to.

[umbergod]

Gish is short. Spellsword is a PrC, so you can't use it a a general term. Battlemage makes me think of a typical caster, but wearing armor, or even just a typical caster with spells chosen for the battlefield. Mystic blade sounds weird.

spellsword was around as a description of someone blending magic and mundane combat far longer than the prestige class sir.

[Hiro Protagonest]

spellsword was around as a description of someone blending magic and mundane combat far longer than the prestige class sir.

Well, I've only really known about true warrior-mages in D&D 3.5. In Exalted, you have magic augmenting your attacks, but at the core, you're a warrior blessed with magical powers, sorta like a paladin with zero restrictions. In GURPS, I guess you could make it, but I don't have GURPS, or Lot5R, or any of those systems. I have Exalted and 3.5 and 4e.

4e sorta lets you play it, throuh swordmage and cleric and paladin, but those all have names already.

[Keneth]

It came into use back then and it stuck. It's ideal because it's simple, recognizable, and no one is likely to ever use the word for anything else again, unlike spellsword or battlemage which can easily be confused with existing PrCs or classes.

[grarrrg]

spellsword was around as a description of someone blending magic and mundane combat far longer than the prestige class sir.

It doesn't matter which came first, there is "confusion potential" either way.

Spellsword the PrC is specific.
spellsword the melee/casty hybrid is general.

Specific trumps General.:smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Because gish is easy to type and everyone knows what you mean when you say it.

Besides, not all of them use magic or spells.

[NeoSeraphi]

Besides, not all of them use magic or spells.

This is true. We use gish to refer to psionic/warrior blends like psychic warrior, psionic fist and slayer as well. "Spellsword" wouldn't work for that at all.

[umbergod]

This is true. We use gish to refer to psionic/warrior blends like psychic warrior, psionic fist and slayer as well. "Spellsword" wouldn't work for that at all.

psionics aka mind magic. Anytime I've seen mention of a psionic based gish, its referred to as a psionic gish, not just a gish. I still personally hate the term and will never use it other than when discussing the githyanki gish :P and in this topic to state my opinion on how lame the word is :3

[ngilop]

Because gish is easy to type and everyone knows what you mean when you say it.

Besides, not all of them use magic or spells.

that is not always true, maybe for the new to the scene gamers that is a absolutle truth, but us older gamers initilaly think" why do they want to be githyanki?' then they are told 'a gish is a fighter mage hybrid' then the older gamer is even more cofnused than after much more cofnusion is confuzzling everybody we learn that gish now has millions of different definiton other than what it originally was.

basically calling any hybrid a gish would be like me saying Orc meaning an Orc, then everybody calling anything green, ugly, dumb and violent an orc.

You see Gish was origniall a title held by the githyanki fighter/mages. and soembody picked up an older edition book and saw that and though 'gish' meant melee/caster hybrid.

this is a case of general trumping specific. sorry grarrrg.

[Psyren]

I still personally hate the term and will never use it other than when discussing the githyanki gish :P and in this topic to state my opinion on how lame the word is :3

Okay, sure thing.


that is not always true, maybe for the new to the scene gamers that is a absolutle truth, but us older gamers initilaly think" why do they want to be githyanki?' then they are told 'a gish is a fighter mage hybrid' then the older gamer is even more cofnused than after much more cofnusion is confuzzling everybody we learn that gish now has millions of different definiton other than what it originally was.

"Millions?" Really? :smallconfused:

[Mystify]

that is not always true, maybe for the new to the scene gamers that is a absolutle truth, but us older gamers initilaly think" why do they want to be githyanki?' then they are told 'a gish is a fighter mage hybrid' then the older gamer is even more cofnused than after much more cofnusion is confuzzling everybody we learn that gish now has millions of different definiton other than what it originally was.

basically calling any hybrid a gish would be like me saying Orc meaning an Orc, then everybody calling anything green, ugly, dumb and violent an orc.

You see Gish was origniall a title held by the githyanki fighter/mages. and soembody picked up an older edition book and saw that and though 'gish' meant melee/caster hybrid.

this is a case of general trumping specific. sorry grarrrg.
Evolution of language. Use defines meaning, not visa versa. Yes, language evolves out from under you, people like to complain and say "Thats wrong, thats not what it used to mean!", but people are always purposing terms.

[hymer]

"Usage is the arbiter final, surely."

- Stephen Fry

[CigarPete]

Can we just call them elves then? Wasn't the Elf class the original Fighter/Mage? :smallsmile:

[Talionis]

Why? Its what the githyanki call their hybrid caster/melee. Its irked me to no end that the community calls what I've always called either battlemages or spellswords by a title from a specific race. So in short, Why do you call it a gish?

Gish doesn't equal Githyanki, at least not any more. Because people use it more broadly, it has come to mean more than Githyanki. Its a lot like the Xerox, Coke, etc. At some point the best example becomes the word for something, and slangs out a little. And then you have a new word.

Gish is a new word. It has come to mean more than just Githyanki. We needed a word for Gish and Gish is as good as any.

Why do I like Gishes? -- Its good self nerfing from what you can do as a spellcaster. It also just makes for better/more imaginative visuals in combat for my role playing.

[FMArthur]

Gish doesn't equal Githyanki, at least not any more. Because people use it more broadly, it has come to mean more than Githyanki. Its a lot like the Xerox, Coke, etc. At some point the best example becomes the word for something, and slangs out a little. And then you have a new word.

Gish is a new word. It has come to mean more than just Githyanki. We needed a word for Gish and Gish is as good as any.

It's not even a new word as far as D&D worlds are concerned, or really all that analogous to those brand names; it's just a foreign-language word appropriated into Common and is used pretty much the same way as it was before with slight alteration. We do that all the time in English. :smallconfused:

[Wings of Peace]

I do it for the same reason as everyone else, it's convenient and commonly used. I'm also not a fan of word like spellsword or battlemage because (as someone else here said) I feel like they either pin me down to magic or a particular weapon. I can say gish and mean a psionic gish, a magic gish, an incarnum gish, or anything else as long as it's a melee oriented character who uses supernatural means to enhance their fighting ability.

[Elric VIII]

basically calling any hybrid a gish would be like me saying Orc meaning an Orc, then everybody calling anything green, ugly, dumb and violent an orc.

Funny you should mention that. Tolkien took the word Orc from the old english word Ork, which was a general description of demons or monsters.

[GoatBoy]

Why "gish" and not "spellsword"?

Why "ilithid" and not "mind flayer"?

Why "beholder" and not "floaty eye ball thing"?

Why "rogue" and not "thief"?

Language is a tricky beast.

http://snag.gy/c0Toy.jpg

[Coidzor]

It came into use back then and it stuck. It's ideal because it's simple, recognizable, and no one is likely to ever use the word for anything else again, unlike spellsword or battlemage which can easily be confused with existing PrCs or classes.

Also they lend themselves for different permutations of the gish archetype if they qualify as such in people's minds at all.

Battlemage, as mentioned, could just be a mage who focuses on battle magics or battles with magic, not necessarily someone who is a martial warrior augmened by their magical power.

Spellsword could just be someone who mostly casts spells through their sword or on their sword, like a duskblade.

[KillianHawkeye]

Battlemage, as mentioned, could just be a mage who focuses on battle magics or battles with magic, not necessarily someone who is a martial warrior augmened by their magical power.

I agree. The term "battlemage" makes me think of somebody like an Evoker or a Warmage AKA the one-man siege engine.

[Mystify]

Also they lend themselves for different permutations of the gish archetype if they qualify as such in people's minds at all.

Battlemage, as mentioned, could just be a mage who focuses on battle magics or battles with magic, not necessarily someone who is a martial warrior augmened by their magical power.

Spellsword could just be someone who mostly casts spells through their sword or on their sword, like a duskblade.
I also agree with this. Battlemage doesn't even imply gish to me, and a spellsword would be somebody channeling spells through their weapon. There are many gish archtypes that this does not cover, but still are clearly in the group of "magically augemented martial soldiers". Unless you want to call them MAMS, gish is a good catch-all term.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

I have always used the term spellsword or mystic swordsmen, as that can stay what it is than the word gish. The word gish can apply to single class characters like duskblade, beguiler or other hybrid classes.

The main word i dont like is adventurer, how can someone be called an adventurer if they are delivering a package to a city a 100 miles away, or killing a bunch of wild animals in the near by forest.

[grarrrg]

*wordswordswords*...
this is a case of general trumping specific. sorry grarrrg.

:eek:
Someone spelled it correctly!

*relevant video linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPVKDbWmJPY)*

[Big Fau]

I have always used the term spellsword or mystic swordsmen, as that can stay what it is than the word gish. The word gish can apply to single class characters like duskblade, beguiler or other hybrid classes.

How the hell does a Beguiler, a class with 1/2 BAB and a d6 HD, count as a single-classed Gish?


The main word i dont like is adventurer, how can someone be called an adventurer if they are delivering a package to a city a 100 miles away, or killing a bunch of wild animals in the near by forest.

I used to be an adventurer like you, until someone changed the definition on me.

[Fineous Orlon]

Because everyone else does.

Plus it's short and it sounds cooler than "fighter/mage". :smallbiggrin:

I am sorry to report, you are mistaken.

Nothing is cooler than fighter/ mage, or, even, F/MU, fighter/ magic-user.

Gish, however, works pretty well.

One true and yet generic term for one who fights well and casts well is "Cleric [v3.5]."

"Staving off grognard status, just barely..."

[Ravens_cry]

Generally, gish without qualifiers refers to arcane gishes.

[Tenno Seremel]

Haven't you heard gish means Real Fighter Which Does Not Suck in D&D? :smallsmile:

[umbergod]

I guess its the gamer in me that doesn't like it. I learned the word when it applied to the caste of fighter/casters in githyanki society, so to me, when someone says gish or I read the word gish on here, I instantly think of some crazy haired githyanki with a big ass silver sword and a hand wreathed in flame.

As for spellsword tying you to a specific weapon, even in the PrC it says you can call it w/e you want based on what weapon you use :P

[Mystify]

As for spellsword tying you to a specific weapon, even in the PrC it says you can call it w/e you want based on what weapon you use :P
But "I am a spell-sword, watch me punch you with magic" just seems wrong.

[Hiro Protagonest]

But "I am a spell-sword, watch me punch you with magic" just seems wrong.

And spellfist sounds worse. :smalltongue:

[crazyhedgewizrd]

How the hell does a Beguiler, a class with 1/2 BAB and a d6 HD, count as a single-classed Gish?

its a social rogue/spellcaster type of class but it is still a hybrid class


I used to be an adventurer like you, until someone changed the definition on me.

you sir are a mercenary, sellsword, bandit and any other label you choose. You are still not an adventurer unleast you are exploreing the uncharted places that no one has been before.

[NeoSeraphi]

its a social rogue/spellcaster type of class but it is still a hybrid class


But that's not a gish. A gish is a fighter/mage. A thief/mage is a bard.

[JonRG]

I always thought of the beguiler as a spontaneous Illusionist/Enchanter, kind of like the Warmage was for Evocation magic.

As for the question, I learned 'gish' on these boards and think it's really fun to say. :smallbiggrin:

[KoboldITP27]

As for spellsword tying you to a specific weapon, even in the PrC it says you can call it w/e you want based on what weapon you use :P

And that's all well and good as long as you're talking about a specific character who uses a specific weapon.

It runs into problems when you want to talk generically about fighter/mage archetypes (which is where I see "gish" used most frequently) because you may not want to specify any specific weapon, and "spell[insert weapon of choice here]" just doesn't work.

"Fighter/mage" has a similar problem. The gish you're talking about may not be a fighter, and "Mage" used to be a class but now isn't which is confusing.


its a social rogue/spellcaster type of class but it is still a hybrid class

To the best of my knowledge "Gish" refers only to combat/spellcasting hybrids not to any spellcasting hybrid.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

To the best of my knowledge "Gish" refers only to combat/spellcasting hybrids not to any spellcasting hybrid.

I think you mean martial instead of combat. Isn't combat everyone does?

[Coidzor]

How the hell does a Beguiler, a class with 1/2 BAB and a d6 HD, count as a single-classed Gish?

I suppose if you used a term like Skillgish to describe shifty-eyed (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240) spellcasters?

Jade Dragon: woof. That does sound wrong. I sorta winced in sympathy pain at that one. :smalleek:

[umbergod]

And spellfist sounds worse. :smalltongue:

Idk, sounds pretty awesome to me. Does it include blue magic? ;)

[Big Fau]

you sir are a mercenary, sellsword, bandit and any other label you choose. You are still not an adventurer unleast you are exploreing the uncharted places that no one has been before.

First, you clearly missed the joke.

Second:


Adventurer (Noun)


A person who has, enjoys, or seeks adventures.
A seeker of fortune in daring enterprises; soldier of fortune.
A person who undertakes great commercial risk; speculator.
A person who seeks power, wealth, or social rank by unscrupulous or questionable means.


AKA: Homicidal nomadic kleptomaniacs.

[satorian]

5. People who have yet to take an arrow to the knee.

[Novawurmson]

Also: It sounds fun. Gish gish gish gish gish gish gish. It's short and easy to remember.

[hymer]

Homicidal nomadic kleptomaniacs.

You call my name, and I appear.

[Feytalist]

I, too, first learnt of the term gish in the original sense; 2nd ed... Manual of the Planes, was it? Thing is, when I first heard it on forums used to describe a warrior/mage archetype, I knew exactly what was meant. Which is probably why it was used in the first place. Everyone who knew the term immediately associated it with fighter/wizard. I'm guessing the "githanki" part just faded out of the collective consciousness gradually.

Incidentally, "gish" to me still means a warrior-type-slash-arcane-type. Like the prime example sorcadin. Although in my experience when people say "I want to make a gish" they don't usually mean a duskblade or the like. They tend to mean a multiclass character.

Warrior/psionic characters are psionic gishes. Warrior/incarnum characters are incarnum gishes. And so forth.



AKA: Homicidal nomadic kleptomaniacs.

That is the perfect, quintessential description of a D&D character.

In fact, I think I just might quote that.

[Psyren]

Generally, gish without qualifiers refers to arcane gishes.

Which I find pretty ironic given that Githyanki are a psionic race.


But that's not a gish. A gish is a fighter/mage. A thief/mage is a bard.

This is also funny because their spells can't be silenced. Which in many situations makes you "mage OR thief."



I guess it boils down to: OP (and maybe one or two others) doesn't like the term "gish" and that's okay. Won't stop the majority of us from using it, but personally I did appreciate the history lesson.

[umbergod]

Which I find pretty ironic given that Githyanki are a psionic race.

I guess it boils down to: OP (and maybe one or two others) doesn't like the term "gish" and that's okay. Won't stop the majority of us from using it, but personally I did appreciate the history lesson.

Yeah, githyanki are psionic naturally, but they also have a pretty strong wizard tradition. IIRC, githyanki wizards were called duthka'gith or something of that nature. I know my dislike of the term applying to what the community as a whole considers martial/caster won't stop anyone, and it shouldn't :P just my little rant.

On a very related note, I now have the urge to play a true gish :P that is, a fighter/wizard githyanki XD

EDIT: Nevermind, I recalled incorrectly :P Duthka'gith are the githyanki/red dragon hybrids

[NeoSeraphi]

This is also funny because their spells can't be silenced. Which in many situations makes you "mage OR thief."


In 2nd edition, no one's spells could be silenced. Also, since the bard was the only class besides the thief and the ranger who could Move Silently (this was back when only certain classes were even allowed to make skill checks), he was actually pretty damn good at being a thief.

[Flickerdart]

you sir are a mercenary, sellsword, bandit and any other label you choose. You are still not an adventurer unleast you are exploreing the uncharted places that no one has been before.
The only requirement for being an adventurer is the having of adventures. That by no means requires you to do any exploring at all.

[Psyren]

In 2nd edition, no one's spells could be silenced. Also, since the bard was the only class besides the thief and the ranger who could Move Silently (this was back when only certain classes were even allowed to make skill checks), he was actually pretty damn good at being a thief.

That's interesting trivia but I don't see what it has to do with my point. Having to sing during a covert mission can be problematic.

[umbergod]

That's interesting trivia but I don't see what it has to do with my point. Having to sing during a covert mission can be problematic.

maybe he quietly hummed a little ditty?

[Psyren]

maybe he quietly hummed a little ditty?

Sadly, no:


Verbal (V)

A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Sadly, no:

Technically, you just have to be able to use a strong voice. You aren't obligated to.

[Flickerdart]

Take Nonverbal Spell and Perform: Ambient Noise.

[NeoSeraphi]

Take Nonverbal Spell and Perform: Ambient Noise.

"Take" Nonverbal Spell? What does that mean? Feats didn't exist back in 2.E. :smallconfused:

[Elric VIII]

Take Nonverbal Spell and Perform: Ambient Noise.

While that is definately the most comedic choice, there's always the Subsonics feat from CAd.

[umbergod]

Sadly, no:

haha I was just being a smartass anyway :P i avoid bards. I'd rather play a sorcerer/rogue than a bard >.> but thats just me XD

[Dusk Eclipse]

[:elan:] And that didn't struck you as needlessly complicated?[/:elan:]

I had to...

[Zombimode]

In 2nd edition, no one's spells could be silenced. Also, since the bard was the only class besides the thief and the ranger who could Move Silently (this was back when only certain classes were even allowed to make skill checks), he was actually pretty damn good at being a thief.

This is incorrect. The Bards list of thief skills was: Climb Walls, Listen, Pickpocketing and Read Languages (misleading name, its some sort of UMD).
They had no special skill in hiding or sneaking.

[NeoSeraphi]

This is incorrect. The Bards list of thief skills was: Climb Walls, Listen, Pickpocketing and Read Languages (misleading name, its some sort of UMD).
They had no special skill in hiding or sneaking.

Ah, well, that makes more sense then. See, Psyren? Bards couldn't sneak, so it didn't matter that they had no way to stealth their spells.

[Psyren]

Ah, well, that makes more sense then. See, Psyren? Bards couldn't sneak, so it didn't matter that they had no way to stealth their spells.

I was never talking about 2nd edition, and still have no idea why you brought it up :smallconfused:

[NeoSeraphi]

I was never talking about 2nd edition, and still have no idea why you brought it up :smallconfused:

...:smallconfused: Because 2nd edition is where the term "gish" started, iirc. At least, I don't think it's been around since 1.E (could be wrong about that). Anyway, I said "thief/mage is a bard". Because, that's what bards were in 2.E. They were basically a gestalted thief/mage.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

...:smallconfused: Because 2nd edition is where the term "gish" started, iirc. At least, I don't think it's been around since 1.E (could be wrong about that).

It did start in 1e; there is a mention of "gishes" in their 1e Fiend Folio entry, where githyanki first appeared.

EDIT: Apparently, they showed up in White Dwarf previously; didn't know that. Thanks, nyjastul.

[Psyren]

...:smallconfused: Because 2nd edition is where the term "gish" started, iirc. At least, I don't think it's been around since 1.E (could be wrong about that). Anyway, I said "thief/mage is a bard". Because, that's what bards were in 2.E. They were basically a gestalted thief/mage.

I wasn't contesting the origins of "gish." I was mocking the concept of a "mage-thief" whose magic reveals his location, and who you revealed couldn't sneak anyway back in 2e.

[nyjastul69]

The term gish is indeed a 1st ed. D&D term. My understanding is that it comes from White Dwarf magazine, where the Githyanki were first described. It was later reprinted in the 1st ed. Fiend Folio. The 1st ed. FF was, for the most part, a collection of WD monsters. I have never collected WD magazine so I can't be sure.

What I can be sure of is that the term exists in the 1st ed. FF. If a lair of Githyanki were found on the Prime Material plane one could expect it to house:
1 supreme leader
2 captains
1 knight (actually an anti-paladin)
2 warlocks (just a fluff name for Githyanki magic-users of 4th-7th level)
3 sergeants
2 'gish' (fighter/magic-users of 4th/4th level)
10-19 lower levels

If one finds the term gish untoward, one can always use the term 'zerths'. That's what the Githzerai call their fighter/magic-users. Although they're only F/M-U of 3/3 level. So they are not nearly as cool, which is why the term zerth was never adopted. Or maybe it's because the Githzerai never had a publication history prior to the 1st ed. FF. :amused:

FWIW I actually think gish sounds cooler than zerths.

[Ravens_cry]

Zerth sounds a a bit too bad sci-fi.
As in, "Great Planets! The Zerth have invaded the Earth!
This calls for . . .Captain Cosmic, Defender of the Galaxy!"

[nyjastul69]

Zerth sounds a a bit too bad sci-fi.
As in, "Great Planets! The Zerth have invaded the Earth!
This calls for . . .Captain Cosmic, Defender of the Galaxy!"

Gish is also a cooler word because it's singular and plural, at the same time! Zerth needs some help to get plurality. It's clearly an inferior term. :smallbiggrin:

[Feytalist]

Zerth stemming from Zerthimon, the githzerai progenitor (in a sense), when he split from the githyanki (led by Gith, which is where the two races get their names) at the Pronouncement of the Two Skies.

Zerths follow the teachings and philosophy of Zerthimon, and wait for his return.


...I know way too much about gith history. I blame Planescape: Torment.

[Zombimode]

Zerth stemming from Zerthimon, the githzerai progenitor (in a sense), when he split from the githyanki (led by Gith, which is where the two races get their names) at the Pronouncement of the Two Skies.

Zerths follow the teachings and philosophy of Zerthimon, and wait for his return.


...I know way too much about gith history. I blame Planescape: Torment.

Its highly questionable if this is history at all. Maybe my memory fails me, but I think when reading the last of the parts of the Disc, the Nameless One (with high enough mental scores) indentifies the whole story as allegoric, written with a purpose, not to describe past events. I THINK it is hinted that most of the so-called history of the Giths is actually not true to the historic events at all and was constructed by Zerth so that his people could survive in the Limbo.

[Kaje]

This is true. We use gish to refer to psionic/warrior blends like psychic warrior, psionic fist and slayer as well. "Spellsword" wouldn't work for that at all.

Heck, I even include things like totemists and swordsages.