Lich elemental possible?

[Myrryr]

So I'm currently playing a warmage that I intend to take into a Negative Energy Elemental Savant PrC. The character is also going to be becoming a lich prior to that. Being undead before it hits lv 10 ES, will it be able to become an "undead negative energy elemental" that due to it's aura of neg energy fast heals itself, gives itself (more) turn resist and the other profane bonuses?

Also, I looked at the old phylactery threads (didn't want to necro them) and one of the ideas of liches using each other a phylactery caught my eye. Does a destroyed lich destroy the others' phylactery permanently or only until the lich regenerates and then, by virtue of existing again, the phylactery is now also existing again?

[Aasimar]

I'm pretty sure Negative energy isn't an element.

[NeoSeraphi]

You can't qualify for the Elemental Savant prestige class based on negative energy without DM fiat, seeing as one of the prereqs is Energy Substitution (Fire/Cold/Electricity/Acid).

As for whether the lich elemental works, well...you have to be a humanoid to become a lich, but you don't have to be a humanoid to take the Elemental Savant prestige class, though I don't really know what you expect to gain from it. (Undead already get all the immunities that elementals have)

[Albinobear]

First off, you can't choose Negative Energy as an Elemental Savant (you can only pick fire, water, earth or air).

If your DM allows you to take Negative Energy, I wouldn't recommend becoming a lich, because eventually you become immune to the energy you chose. Negative Energy is what heals undead, and you'd be immune to it.

[Calanon]

So I'm currently playing a warmage that I intend to take into a Negative Energy Elemental Savant PrC. The character is also going to be becoming a lich prior to that. Being undead before it hits lv 10 ES, will it be able to become an "undead negative energy elemental" that due to it's aura of neg energy fast heals itself, gives itself (more) turn resist and the other profane bonuses?


Negative Energy isn't an elemental option
You become Immune to the element you selected so even if it was possible you would be immune to it
Pick another element



Also, I looked at the old phylactery threads (didn't want to necro them) and one of the ideas of liches using each other a phylactery caught my eye. Does a destroyed lich destroy the others' phylactery permanently or only until the lich regenerates and then, by virtue of existing again, the phylactery is now also existing again?

Most of the stuff on those phylactery threads are said in the sake of humor since no DM would allow a Lich to become another Liches phylactery :smalltongue:

Honestly I recommend taking up fire since as a Lich that would effectively make you immune to almost all the elements... or Acid... Acid elemental would be pretty cool... I'd go with Fire since you can get Burn :smalltongue:

[Myrryr]

The DM has already allowed "other than the classic four elements," so yes, negative energy was included in that, as well as positive, metal, plant, bone and force. Bone, plant and metal were allowed because they were in the CA as examples and the others because he thought they fit thematically (and the elementals exist).

As for the question it was mostly because elementals, barring earth, air and water, (and metal/plant/bone in this case) are energies, which makes them logically somewhat incorporeal and I wasn't sure if the lich can "attach" the part of his soul that isn't in his phylactery to an energy source instead of skeleton.

[Mystify]

Even if the DM allows it, its still a bad idea. You would be gaining immunity to what heals you. That would be like a person gaining immunity to positive energy. Thats just a bad idea. All of the resistances are redundant on a lich.
Also, how would a bone elemental savant work? All of your energy attacks do bone damage:smallconfused:
Not to mention you would be done 8 caster levels. That stings quite a bit.

[Calanon]

The DM has already allowed "other than the classic four elements," so yes, negative energy was included in that, as well as positive, metal, plant, bone and force. Bone, plant and metal were allowed because they were in the CA as examples and the others because he thought they fit thematically (and the elementals exist).

Be a Force Elemental... DO IT! :smallamused: or a Taint Elemental... Drive people insane as you are fighting them :smallbiggrin:

btw this would have been good to know if you told us in your original post...


As for the question it was mostly because elementals, barring earth, air and water, (and metal/plant/bone in this case) are energies, which makes them logically somewhat incorporeal and I wasn't sure if the lich can "attach" the part of his soul that isn't in his phylactery to an energy source instead of skeleton.

a Lich can attach his soul to almost anything he wants its just I doubt your DM would allow it... if he is going to allow your phylactery to be whatever you want then do the old clipped bag of holding trick :smallconfused:

[Myrryr]

How would I lose 8 caster levels? I only see 6...

And in regards to the immunity, is there then any way to remove the immunity of an elemental or willingly drop it the same way spell resistance can be dropped? Or change it into absorption?

Also, the Savage Species says undead templates are higher priority than elemental ones, so would that have an effect, ie; undead healing via neg energy>neg energy immunity?

And I have no idea on the bone or metal one. I think he threw it in because the CA did. I mean, maybe a bone fireball just explodes like a frag grenade filled with bone fragments or something...

[Feralventas]

On the subject of alternative elements, I've used the Elemental Savant PrC with a Light element, having the energy type switch to Brilliant Energy as per the weapon enchantment. Didn't get far enough into it to worry about elemental traits, but I'd have probably done a conversion of making all natural weapons deal brilliant energy damage with a fort-save to avoid being Dazzled.

Bone elemental would probably deal bludgeoning damage; magic missile becomes bone missile, scorching ray or the like might be better switched to piercing or slashing damage with a burst of bone-fragments being projected in place of fire.

Wood and Metal could probably manage under similar damage types.

Being a Negative energy elemental isn't core or even official D&D for the most part, but there are some negative energy elementals or void elementals in the Immortal's Handbook. There are also Shadow Elementals in the Tome of Magic of which deal cold damage so that you could maintain the negative energy aspect while avoiding a major re-tooling of the class.

[Mystify]

How would I lose 8 caster levels? I only see 6...

And in regards to the immunity, is there then any way to remove the immunity of an elemental or willingly drop it the same way spell resistance can be dropped? Or change it into absorption?

Also, the Savage Species says undead templates are higher priority than elemental ones, so would that have an effect, ie; undead healing via neg energy>neg energy immunity?

And I have no idea on the bone or metal one. I think he threw it in because the CA did. I mean, maybe a bone fireball just explodes like a frag grenade filled with bone fragments or something...

Ok, I mis-remembered how much elemental savant lost. But 6 levels is still alot.
Is there any particular reason you need the last level? It would save you a lost caster level, you won't get the pointless immunity, and you don't the the redundant elemental perfection. Your elemental attack would have a pathetic DC since you have no con, you already have all of the immunities, you already don't need to eat breath or sleep.... What exactly do you think you are getting? An extra +1 to the DC of negative energy spells?
In fact, the class itself seems pointless yo you. The first level that turns all your elemental spells into negative energy can be useful. beyond that, you have immunity to sleep which adds nothing, energy penetration +2 with is just a bonus against SE, resistances to what heals you, a +1 DC on negative energy spells, a darkvision you already have, and an immunity to paralysis and poison you already have. The entire class is redundant.

[Myrryr]

Ok, I mis-remembered how much elemental savant lost. But 6 levels is still alot.
Is there any particular reason you need the last level? It would save you a lost caster level, you won't get the pointless immunity, and you don't the the redundant elemental perfection. Your elemental attack would have a pathetic DC since you have no con, you already have all of the immunities, you already don't need to eat breath or sleep.... What exactly do you think you are getting? An extra +1 to the DC of negative energy spells?
In fact, the class itself seems pointless yo you. The first level that turns all your elemental spells into negative energy can be useful. beyond that, you have immunity to sleep which adds nothing, energy penetration +2 with is just a bonus against SE, resistances to what heals you, a +1 DC on negative energy spells, a darkvision you already have, and an immunity to paralysis and poison you already have. The entire class is redundant.

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/elemneen.php

These exist on the negative energy plane (in this campaign) and all of the abilities they have, notably the Combat: The mere presence of these creatures is anathema to life; everything within a 30-feet radius of a negative energy elemental is affected as follows:

Undead within the area are more difficult to turn; they turn as if two categories higher.
All undead regenerate at a rate of 2 hit points a round. Undead that already have regeneration abilities add 2 hit points a round to their usual rate.
Freshly slain living creatures in the area have a 50% chance to spontaneously animate as standard zombies.
Healing spells in the area of effect only cure half the hit points rolled.
A supernatural chill inflicts 1 point of damage per turn to those who do not possess magical protection against cold.

When a negative energy elemental attacks, it either forms a humanoid fist to deliver a hammering attack or it merely sweeps over its victim in a midnight wave of death. A successful attack inflicts 3d8 points of damage due to cell death plus the loss of two levels of experience. Their touch also causes up to 1,000 cubic feet (a 10-foot cube) of materials derived from organic substances (such as food, parchment, wood, cloth, and the like) to rot and be destroyed. A successful item saving throw vs. acid negates the effect.
Is very nice on a Lich.
Also, the rest of my party is undead. So they'd be reaping the benefits of the aura (and aoe spells) as well.

[SaintRidley]

I'm pretty sure your type changes to Elemental, you get to be called an elemental of your subtype, and you gain the immunities associated with elementals.

You don't actually pick an elemental and gain all of its abilities. That's not how these sorts of things generally work.

[Mystify]

I'm pretty sure your type changes to Elemental, you get to be called an elemental of your subtype, and you gain the immunities associated with elementals.

You don't actually pick an elemental and gain all of its abilities. That's not how these sorts of things generally work.

"At 10th level, an elemental savant,
through long association with elemental entities and extensive
study of their secrets, completely transcends her mortal
form to become an elemental creature. Her type changes to elemental.
She no longer needs to eat, sleep, or breathe (though
she must still rest to regain spells). She gains an elemental
creature’s immunity to stunning, and she is no longer subject
to extra damage from critical hits or fl anking. An elemental
savant gains the speed and movement modes, natural attacks,
special attacks, and special qualities of a Medium elemental
of the type appropriate to her elemental specialty, as noted
in the Monster Manual, except that the save DC against her
elemental attack form, if any (whirlwind, burn, or vortex) is
20 + her Con modifi er."

Obviously the "as noted in the monster manual" has to be houseruled away, but being a negative energy savant is houseruled in the first place.The question is whether those abilities count as special qualities. The linked page doesn't have them listed as such, but its also not a typical format so I'm not sure if that means anything.

[SaintRidley]

"At 10th level, an elemental savant,
through long association with elemental entities and extensive
study of their secrets, completely transcends her mortal
form to become an elemental creature. Her type changes to elemental.
She no longer needs to eat, sleep, or breathe (though
she must still rest to regain spells). She gains an elemental
creature’s immunity to stunning, and she is no longer subject
to extra damage from critical hits or fl anking. An elemental
savant gains the speed and movement modes, natural attacks,
special attacks, and special qualities of a Medium elemental
of the type appropriate to her elemental specialty, as noted
in the Monster Manual, except that the save DC against her
elemental attack form, if any (whirlwind, burn, or vortex) is
20 + her Con modifi er."

Obviously the "as noted in the monster manual" has to be houseruled away, but being a negative energy savant is houseruled in the first place.The question is whether those abilities count as special qualities. The linked page doesn't have them listed as such, but its also not a typical format so I'm not sure if that means anything.

Thanks. I'm well away from my books so I couldn't check that.

I've got to say, the statblock on the linked page does make it confusing as to what we should take from that.

Even so, losing 6 caster levels is not worth gaining what amounts to fast healing 2, a 1 damage/round cold aura, 50% positive energy resistance, and a 50% chance of spontaneous zombies (especially since they aren't automatically under your control).

[Myrryr]

Thanks. I'm well away from my books so I couldn't check that.

I've got to say, the statblock on the linked page does make it confusing as to what we should take from that.

Even so, losing 6 caster levels is not worth gaining what amounts to fast healing 2, a 1 damage/round cold aura, 50% positive energy resistance, and a 50% chance of spontaneous zombies (especially since they aren't automatically under your control).

Normally I'd agree, but this is a very odd campaign. First off, the entire party is undead, but unique undead. The DM and I created undead templates that grow and branch from each other as you level that have their own abilities and features and stack with your class. The templates are like races except they get stronger as you level. My lich is going to end up an Incorporeal undead "Wraith Lord" who's primary thing is having up to 3 Dread Wraiths under it's control that it can also grant some potent abilities too. All of these undead races simply stack with anything classes do to your character. (The campaign PC's are purposely overpowered, but we've been warned that if we draw to much attention to ourselves the Gods will, personally, get pissed and start ordering tons of high level clerics/paladins/etc., after us.)
So I'm losing 8 and 9 lv spells, but also provide what's basically a permanent desecration aura for the entire party and doing excellent aoe healing and aoe damage simultaneously.

[Rubik]

Normally I'd agree, but this is a very odd campaign. First off, the entire party is undead, but unique undead. The DM and I created undead templates that grow and branch from each other as you level that have their own abilities and features and stack with your class. The templates are like races except they get stronger as you level. My lich is going to end up an Incorporeal undead "Wraith Lord" who's primary thing is having up to 3 Dread Wraiths under it's control that it can also grant some potent abilities too. All of these undead races simply stack with anything classes do to your character. (The campaign PC's are purposely overpowered, but we've been warned that if we draw to much attention to ourselves the Gods will, personally, get pissed and start ordering tons of high level clerics/paladins/etc., after us.)
So I'm losing 8 and 9 lv spells, but also provide what's basically a permanent desecration aura for the entire party and doing excellent aoe healing and aoe damage simultaneously.Take the Human Heritage feat. You become immune to turning, because you're no longer undead even if all your other abilities, immunities, etc stay the same.

[Myrryr]

Take the Human Heritage feat. You become immune to turning, because you're no longer undead even if all your other abilities, immunities, etc stay the same.

Which book is that? Because we're only allowed PHB/DMG and the Complete Arcane/Divine/Warrior/Adventurer and Savage Species.

[Rubik]

Which book is that? Because we're only allowed PHB/DMG and the Complete Arcane/Divine/Warrior/Adventurer and Savage Species.Races of Destiny. Sorry dude.

There's also the Otherworldly feat for Outsider status, but that's from Faerun.

[Calanon]

Which book is that? Because we're only allowed PHB/DMG and the Complete Arcane/Divine/Warrior/Adventurer and Savage Species.

Yell at your DM and demand that the Races books be allowed >:D
If i can fluff my DM into allowing Player's Handbook 2 in all our games then I'm confident you'll have no trouble convincing your DM the importants of Races of Destiny :smallamused:

[Rubik]

I can fluff my DMUh...WhiteText