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realbombchu
2012-03-06, 10:29 PM
I would like some help making an unarmed and unarmored monk-like character without any levels in monk or swordsage and without a lot of multiclassing. I'm torn between a cleric, with the celerity domain, and a standard human druid. Thoughts?

I think druid, but I'm tempted by the cleric's buffs and domain powers. By the way, does a monk's belt allow you to enhance your fists with greater magic weapon?

Snowbluff
2012-03-06, 10:30 PM
Tashalatora Psychic Warrior.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-03-06, 10:32 PM
Tashalatora Psychic Warrior.

Or Superior Unarmed Strike on a psychic warrior, because any sane DM would make you take monk levels to get Tashalatora.

deuxhero
2012-03-06, 10:33 PM
Wizard!

You were raised in a monastery copying books with pre-gutenberg technology, as such you enjoy a very high level of "learnedness".

realbombchu
2012-03-06, 10:37 PM
Tashalatora Psychic Warrior.

I'm sorry, but that's something I don't know. My book collection is kinda incomplete, and psionics isn't my thing. Thanks for the suggestion though.

dgnslyr
2012-03-06, 10:38 PM
Cleric sounds lovely for this kind of stuff, if you want the more mystical aspect.

Hmm, maybe a melee bruiser with barbarian and Fist of the Forest levels for a more martial perspective? Maybe you could refluff rage as a sort of deadly, focused, but exhausting state of mind and body that sharpens your reflexes and enhances your strength. Fist of the Forest is pretty punchy, and adding CON to AC is better than WIS any day. You could mix in Frost Rager, because they're pretty darn good at punching too, and a smattering of fighter for general fightiness isn't a bad idea.

Flickerdart
2012-03-06, 10:39 PM
Barbarians actually make pretty good unarmed fighters. Obviously doesn't match up to a caster, but Whirling Frenzy is a lot like flurry, they can get Improved Trip (Wolf Totem), Improved Grapple (Bear Totem) or Improved Grab (Spirit Bear Totem), run around as Large thanks to Mountain Rage and generally kick ass. Bonus points if your DM allows you to use your unarmed strike as two-handed if you do it Shatner-style.

Big Fau
2012-03-06, 10:42 PM
Totemist (MoI), minus the flavor?

Complex as hell, but very fun to play and very efficient when unarmed.

realbombchu
2012-03-06, 10:53 PM
The barbarian idea has some good points, yeah. I don't have MoI, so totemist is out, sorry.

HunterOfJello
2012-03-06, 10:57 PM
Changeling Rogue + Improved Unarmed Strike + Warshaper

The Underlord
2012-03-06, 10:59 PM
Check the Zinc saucer competition tommorow. The current one is for monk, so you should get some ideas there.

eggs
2012-03-06, 11:09 PM
Hero+Travel domain shaman!

Like a core Cleric, but with an animal companion, polymorph, divine grace, monkish skills and a swath of unarmed bonus feats.

Mystify
2012-03-06, 11:34 PM
If you are going the barbarian route, frost rager gets bonuses to unarmed attacks.

Snowbluff
2012-03-06, 11:55 PM
I'm sorry, but that's something I don't know. My book collection is kinda incomplete, and psionics isn't my thing. Thanks for the suggestion though.

No problem. If you ever want to take a look at it, it's in Secrets of Sarlona and online! Yep! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070212a&page=5 It gives FoB, Unarmed Strikes, and AC Bonus.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-03-06, 11:59 PM
No problem. If you ever want to take a look at it, it's in Secrets of Sarlona and online! Yep! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070212a&page=5 It gives FoB, Unarmed Strikes, and AC Bonus.

RAMS says you have to have monk levels.

Zonugal
2012-03-07, 12:13 AM
For E6 a fun build is something like Warblade 5/Shiba Protector 1 with Intuitive Strike and the Saint template.

Have wisdom to armor class and damage as well as towards attacks twice, plus all the beauties of the warblade class.

Godskook
2012-03-07, 12:32 AM
Is there a reason you don't want *any* monk levels? A 1 or 2 level dip is usually quite useful for most monk-like builds.

Crasical
2012-03-07, 01:00 AM
Is superior unarmed strike allowed?

Hirax
2012-03-07, 02:17 AM
Martial wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard)6/swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)9/abjurant champion5

This classic gish build would do the trick just fine, due to the mighty wallop and greater mighty wallop spells. In particular once you hit level 5, GMW lasts for hours per level. Luminous armor and greater luminous armor also lasts for hours/level and stacks with a monk's belt. The spell heroics gets you a fighter bonus feat per casting for 10 minutes/level. The improved natural attack feat ups your unarmed strike damage further. Use an amulet of natural attacks to enchant your unarmed strike, but don't get more than a +1 enhancement bonus, get special abilities instead. Use greater magic weapon for a higher enhancement bonus. You'll need to be an elf (snow or wood recommended) or other race with martial weapon proficiencies to qualify for swiftblade.

edit: sorcerer also works fine, and probably fits the flavor more, though an eidetic wizard would work too.

Feytalist
2012-03-07, 05:00 AM
Barbarians actually make pretty good unarmed fighters. Obviously doesn't match up to a caster, but Whirling Frenzy is a lot like flurry, they can get Improved Trip (Wolf Totem), Improved Grapple (Bear Totem) or Improved Grab (Spirit Bear Totem), run around as Large thanks to Mountain Rage and generally kick ass. Bonus points if your DM allows you to use your unarmed strike as two-handed if you do it Shatner-style.

Throw some Black Blood Cultist on there for extra unarmed goodness, and you're set.

Baldin
2012-03-07, 06:10 AM
I actualy recently made a build for this ill link you the sheet. If you need the entire level by level buildup tell me.

Sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=373855)

Snowbluff
2012-03-07, 09:05 AM
RAMS says you have to have monk levels.

uuuhhhh... RAMS?

Telonius
2012-03-07, 09:45 AM
Brother O'Shea, bareknuckles champion.

Barbarian1/Cleric12/Sacred Fist7

Barb1 - Improved Unarmed Strike
Bar1/Clr2 - Combat Reflexes
Bar1/Clr5 - Combat Casting
Bar1/Clr8 - ?
Bar1/Clr11 - Stunning Fist

FMArthur
2012-03-07, 09:56 AM
So is the goal just someone who doesn't wear armor and uses unarmed strikes?

Anyone with Superior Unarmed Strike can deal decent unarmed damage. It's basically just a Small character's Monk progression. A 10,000gp Fanged Ring gives a pair of feats that provides both the prerequisite (IUS) and improves it to default Monk progression (INA).

Dusk Eclipse
2012-03-07, 10:14 AM
uuuhhhh... RAMS?

Rules as Make Sense IIRC

Snowbluff
2012-03-07, 10:24 AM
Rules as Make Sense IIRC

SO... Rules as I don't like how this works fluff-wise? If you read Monastic Training it pretty much says you simply trained at a monastery with Monks. No reason why you wouldn't pick up a few tricks. I don't see this doesn't make sense.

Psyren
2012-03-07, 10:27 AM
Barbarian/Fist of the Forest/Frostrager seems your best bet for a non-monk monk.


(Without psionics, incarnum or ToB anyway.)

Flickerdart
2012-03-07, 10:29 AM
SO... Rules as I don't like how this works fluff-wise? If you read Monastic Training it pretty much says you simply trained at a monastery with Monks. No reason why you wouldn't pick up a few tricks. I don't see this doesn't make sense.
Pff. You could never stay in such long proximity with Monks without picking up Monkinson's Disease, which slowly turns your levels into Monk.

Snowbluff
2012-03-07, 10:38 AM
Pff. You could never stay in such long proximity with Monks without picking up Monkinson's Disease, which slowly turns your levels into Monk.

Oh gawd... so like being a crummy class is Contagious?! Someone tell the adventurers! Our barbarians might become Monks! /panic!!!!!! :smalleek:

Elric VIII
2012-03-07, 11:52 AM
Bonus points if your DM allows you to use your unarmed strike as two-handed if you do it Shatner-style.

Hammer Fist from Dragon Compendium lets you add 1.5*STR to unarmed strikes as long as you use both hands.



I rather like Cleric/Ordained Champion/Sacred Exorcist for an unarmed fighter. You can even use your Wis as your primary combat ability score.

Big Fau
2012-03-07, 11:56 AM
Hammer Fist from Dragon Compendium lets you add 1.5*STR to unarmed strikes as long as you use both hands.

And only works on a single attack by RAW:


You may make a single unarmed attack with both hands to add 1-1/2 your Strength bonus on the damage roll. This extra damage does not apply if you make a flurry of blows attack or if you are holding anything in either hand.

Elric VIII
2012-03-07, 12:08 PM
And only works on a single attack by RAW:

The way I read it is that it only counts as one attack even though you are hitting with two hands. Since it doesn't list an action type for using this feat, I think that may be the intended reading. Although both readings would be grammatically accurate.

Cog
2012-03-07, 12:26 PM
The way I read it is that it only counts as one attack even though you are hitting with two hands. Since it doesn't list an action type for using this feat, I think that may be the intended reading. Although both readings would be grammatically accurate.
Indeed. Unless the suggestion is that you're only allowed to ever use the feat once, it should be valid for any single unarmed strike.

FMArthur
2012-03-07, 12:33 PM
The Races of Faerun version just lets you do it on any attack as long as you have both hands free and aren't using Flurry of Blows (which is part of why I think Flurry of Blows is actually a monk's replacement for unarmed TWF). You have to be a dwarf for it, though.

Ezekiul
2012-03-07, 12:42 PM
Ive used druid for some staff weilding monk(ey king) builds. Taking the druidic avenger/whirling frenzy to replicate FoB

Mystify
2012-03-07, 01:29 PM
Oh gawd... so like being a crummy class is Contagious?! Someone tell the adventurers! Our barbarians might become Monks! /panic!!!!!! :smalleek:
Don't worry. The barbarians have alignment restrictions protecting them.

Snowbluff
2012-03-07, 01:40 PM
Don't worry. The barbarians have alignment restrictions protecting them.

Oh thank Pelor...

Oh! I just had a thought? Has anyone suggested Ninja yet? They get some Monk stuff.

realbombchu
2012-03-07, 02:27 PM
Wow, so many suggestions since I went to sleep last night! Um, I'm sure these are all great, but I just don't have the books to make some of them.

Here are the books I have that I think can help:
The 3 core rulebooks
PHB2
Complete Adventurer, Divine, and Warrior
Tome of Battle: Bo9S
Savage Species

I think I want to try cleric. I'll choose celerity and travel as my domains. Plant is tempting because I want barkskin, but travel is better.

I'll try to make a cleric 20 with superior unarmed strike, I guess.

IdleMuse
2012-03-07, 02:39 PM
If you have Complete Divine, there's really no reason to go Cleric 20; the levels after first give you nothing but spellcasting, and there are plenty of prestige classes that advance spellcasting in CD, either fully, or close to. I'd suggest you look at...

Church Inquisistor
Divine Oracle
Contemplative
and especially for this character, Sacred Fist

All from Complete Divine.

As stated by some people above, a Monk dip won't hurt in terms of leadin up on relevant feats.

Mystify
2012-03-07, 02:41 PM
As stated by some people above, a Monk dip won't hurt in terms of leadin up on relevant feats.
Though a dip in monk can stop your superior unarmed strike progression cold.

Crasical
2012-03-07, 02:43 PM
Ive used druid for some staff weilding monk(ey king) builds. Taking the druidic avenger/whirling frenzy to replicate FoB

I'm very curious as to how you replicated Sun Wukong as a PC.

Ezekiul
2012-03-07, 02:53 PM
I'm very curious as to how you replicated Sun Wukong as a PC.

Tripping/knock down + a whirling quarterstaff, and shilleagh + brambles for starters :P, with some monkey/ape wildshaping cause I couldnt find a monkey race.

Psyren
2012-03-07, 04:14 PM
Tripping/knock down + a whirling quarterstaff, and shilleagh + brambles for starters :P, with some monkey/ape wildshaping cause I couldnt find a monkey race.

Vanara from Oriental Adventures. They were designed precisely to be that kind of monkey-warrior.

There's also Hadozee from Stormwrack, but they're a bit more "gorilla" than "monkey."

Both are 0 LA.

Andorax
2012-03-07, 04:32 PM
Back in Dragon 310, they presented a series of variant fighters...one of which was the Pugelist. This, too, seems to fit the bill reasonably well, particularly combined with SUS.

Rubik
2012-03-07, 04:41 PM
If not having the book is an issue, psychic warriors are good at just about everything martial and exist wholly on this website, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) free of charge. (Not including Psionic Lion's Charge, anyway.)

Hirax
2012-03-07, 05:09 PM
Sacrilegious fist? If you go this route, travel devotion will get you extra move actions, but it's from Complete Champion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070504a&page=2). This build would work without that feat, but it adds a lot, because ur-preist grants you rebuke attempts, meaning you'll be able to use travel devotion more than once per day.

Human paragon1/fighter2/monk2/ur-priest2/sacred fist10
H: Iron will
1: Spell focus (evil)
3: Combat casting
6: Improved natural attack
9: Travel devotion
F1: ???
F2: Superior unarmed strike (not a fighter bonus feat, beg your DM to allow it to be one)
M1: Imp. unarmed strike
M1: Stunning fist
M2: Combat reflexes

Talya
2012-03-07, 05:13 PM
Urban brawler barbarian variant, + Fist of the Forest.

Kaeso
2012-03-07, 05:58 PM
Occidental monk:
Cloistered cleric all the way. For some reason, copying a million manuscripts gives you the power to smite heretics in their faces harder than any trained warrior can hope to do :smallconfused:.

Oriental monk:
Unarmed Barbarian. I think there's even a brawler ACF that trades your medium armor and weapon proficencies for free unarmed strike, you can roleplay your rage as a "battle trance". I think Muhammed Ali described going into such a trance a few times, if I'm not mistaken he described it as being able to hear your opponents heartbeat. Try doing something with that instead of the usual THOG SMASH PUPPIES rage.

EDIT: Swordsage'd by Tayla. Yeah, adding fist of the forest is a good idea if you don't mind being a smelly hobo that sleeps in the woods. Then again, being a smelly hobo that sleeps in the woods is the way of life for your average adventurer.

Oh, and if you want to make a Wuxia monk, just take a wizard (perhaps with a level of fighter) with unarmed strike feats and take enlightened fist. You'll be able to deliver touch attack spells through your unarmed strike. Yes, you'll be able to punch people so hard they actually lose levels. However, if you're going this route you should seriously consider taking a sorcerer instead of a wizard and a single level of monk instead of fighter. If you use the "ascetic mage" feat, you'll be able to add your cha modifier to your AC instead of your wis. If you can somehow gain cha to your attack, it'll make you a true SAD class, able to sling spells, fight, or do both at the same time at your leisure.

SanusCompleo
2012-03-07, 07:13 PM
I'm running in a NO-Magic E6 All-human campaign. My build is as follows:

32 PB: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 12.

Urban Ranger (Flaw): [Favored Enemy: Humans], Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Combat Expertise
Urban Ranger: [Two-Weapon Fighting]
Swashbuckler: [Weapon Finesse], Improved Grapple
Swashbuckler: [Insightful Strike], *Dexterity*
Fighter: Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes
Fighter: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting

E1-5: Defensive Throw, Deadly Defense, Snap Kick, Mobility, Elusive Target
E6-10: Superior Unarmed Strike, Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike), Improved Disarm, Intelligence Training (x2)
E11-15: Quick Draw, Deflect Arrows, Power Attack, Dexterity Training (x2)

At level one, before Weapon Finesse, a +3 attack with a singular strike is... less than awesome? But the fortunate thing is he's got a lot of weapon proficiencies, so you can pick up a crossbow and be fine. Don't forget when you're fighting your favored enemy that turns into a +5 attack, for 1d3+2+2 damage (Including strength) Which is pretty awesome. Second level, you hit for +4/+4 with two weapon fighting, 1d3+2+2, you're hitting 5-8 every strike, and now you can afford to hit twice.

Third level is where things go in full swing. Mind you, he's just as good with two light weapons as he is unarmed. Now he can grapple, and has +3 BAB, +3 with Dexterity, and +2 with Favored Enemy for +8, and he's hitting at +6/+6, with much the same damage. Importantly now, is that you can grapple them very proficiently.

Fourth level, he gets +2 more damage, for 1d3+2+2+2, for 7-9 damage per two hits, and has +7/+7 which is pretty competitive attack bonus.

Fifth level he gets a -big- boost. +8/+8, with +4 BAB, total of +10 to grapple which will work with most combats, Still the same damage, but now you get improved trip at +4, so versus humans you've got +6 to that strength check, and there's nearly no-way you'll miss hitting them with your unarmed touch attack of +10 against humans, requiring an average roll to hit 20 touch AC. Now you also have the ability to pick up a reach weapon and invoke AoOs all over the map at 3 in a round, even if you pick up the Spiked Chain you still have +6 to attacks against humans, reach, finesse, intelligence damage, and to me that's not so bad at all for mooks.

At Sixth, improved two-weapon fighting. It's over. +11/+11/+6/+6 with full attack versus humans. Snap kick comes in really fast, for +11/+11/+11/+6/+6 against humans, and +9/+9/+9/+4/+4 against everything else for those nice five attacks of 1d3+4(6 against humans). Defensive throw means every time you're Dodging someone, you can trip them. Elusive target, if you use Mobility and they miss, you can trip them. Power attackers? You can stop - AND trip them chances are. Elusive Target is great.

Second Epic Tier, your damage bumps up to a longsword 1d8+5(7 with humans), for all five of those attacks, lots of Improved Disarm, bam bam bam.

Final Epic Tier is all really optional stuff, because I couldn't think of anything really necessary to add in. It messes with versatility, gets that 18 De that's been a long-time coming, you get quick draw, Power Attack, and can fill most melee combat roles. Just pick up a weapon and go with it, use the Favored Enemy to it's fullest - since this is an all human campaign it's just... So good. So incredibly useful.

Coming in at the end, you've got +12/+12/+12/+7/+7, you can trip, you can disarm, your AC is pretty nice, 15 with dodge and Combat Expertise can knock it up to 20 bringing your attack bonus down to +7/+7/+7/+2/+2, AND gain an extra 1d6 damage, for 1d8+1d6+5(7 to humans), you've got a good skill pool, but tumble comes in far too late... although in the epic tiers you want to invoke AoOs so you can trap them into getting hit a very great deal.

I've found that it's pretty solid against humans, which are the most common enemy for me... cause there aren't other fantasy races involved. Just fight against your opponents like they're fighting against you. Weapon focus 18 STR power attackers are going to be hitting at 6-11 Bab for 2 attacks doing lots. Barbarians are going to do more, likely 7-12 if they power attack, likely exchanging accuracy for the total of +4 more damage. You can stop the damage from their power attacks, but 1d12+10 twice in a round is nothing to sneeze at. It's just better than 1d12+24, and crazy for all those chargers. Oh, another thing Elusive Target does - it can stop chargers in their tracks. Mess around with feats if you want to be more defensive and get Elusive Target earlier.

Rubik
2012-03-07, 07:19 PM
I've found that it's pretty solid against humans, which are the most common enemy for me... cause there aren't other fantasy races involved.You do know that you have to be evil to have your own race as your favored enemy, RAW, right? Even if you're, say, a good-aligned demon and you're destroying other demons?

Even if you're a bounty hunter and are bringing them in alive and unharmed.

You are evil, right?

SanusCompleo
2012-03-07, 07:21 PM
You do know that you have to be evil to have your own race as your favored enemy, RAW, right? Even if you're, say, a good-aligned demon and you're destroying other demons?

Even if you're a bounty hunter and are bringing them in alive and unharmed.

You are evil, right?

...OH WOW SERIOUSLY?

I... Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

I did not know that!

I suppose that I am. :I We usually don't play with alignments. I'm glad to now know.

EDIT: I couldn't find that rule. Can you show me where it's at?

Rubik
2012-03-07, 07:31 PM
...OH WOW SERIOUSLY?

I... Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

I did not know that!

I suppose that I am. :I We usually don't play with alignments. I'm glad to now know.

EDIT: I couldn't find that rule. Can you show me where it's at?Sorry, I was confusing 3.5 with the 3.0 entry (highlight mine).


Favored Enemy: At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature as a favored enemy. (A ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil.) Due to his extensive study of his foes and training in the proper techniques for combating them, the ranger gains a +1 bonus to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Wilderness Lore checks when using these skills against this type of creature. Likewise, he gets the same bonus to weapon damage rolls against creatures of this type. A ranger also gets the damage bonus with ranged weapons, but only against targets within 30 feet (the ranger cannot strike with deadly accuracy beyond that range). The bonus doesn't apply to damage against creatures that are immune to critical hits.

There is no such clause in 3.5.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-03-07, 07:39 PM
I think that was the case in 3.0 in 3.5 there is no rule that says you must be evil to select your own race as a Favoured Enemy.

Edit: and this is why I shouldn't leave a tab open, start browsing other things and post 10 minutes after I originally meant to.

Crasical
2012-03-07, 07:54 PM
EDIT: Swordsage'd by Tayla. Yeah, adding fist of the forest is a good idea if you don't mind being a smelly hobo that sleeps in the woods. Then again, being a smelly hobo that sleeps in the woods is the way of life for your average adventurer.

Hey, Fist of the Forest is banned from sleeping indoors or buying food, not buying soap. There's nothing that says you have to stink.

Zonugal
2012-03-07, 08:05 PM
SanusCompleo, how are you getting Insightful Strike with only two levels of Swashbuckler?

Also you should look into feats like Knowledge Devotion & Improved Favored Enemy for more damage output.

realbombchu
2012-03-07, 09:32 PM
I guess the lesson here is that there are many ways to make a monk character without using levels of monk (and even more that include monk dips). I looked up the shaman class after digging out my old copy of Oriental Adventures. I also managed to find the Dragon issue that updated the class to v.3.5.

It's a good class, and honestly I would use it, but I'm not really going for an Asian feel, as strange as that sounds from a guy asking for monk builds. Maybe it would help if I explained my concept a little better. I want to create a kind of wandering mystic, who refuses to wear armor or use weapons, but who's unarmed fighting style could be better described as brawling, not martial arts.

I would like to use magic, mostly self buffs because my party already has a divine caster, so I don't need to be the support caster for the group. I don't need to be perfectly optimized, because my group isn't, but yeah, I would like to be effective (within the limits of my book collection).

I'm digging all the stuff you can do with the divine feats (but I'm not using divine metamagic) and domain powers, so I think I'm sticking with cleric. I don't know whether I will take a prestige class. I know it's a waste not to, but I don't like the builds that end up looking like a list of amazing dips. That said, I might take sacred fist after all.

I'm kinda bummed that clerics don't get barkskin, magic fang/greater magic fang, and freedom of movement. I know you can get barkskin with the plant domain and a version of freedom of movement with the travel domain, and a cleric's other buffs are plenty good, but still, it bothers me. Thanks for all the amazing help so far. I am considering your advice, when I have the book in question, so please don't think I'm just ignoring you all.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-03-07, 09:40 PM
I'm kinda bummed that clerics don't get barkskin, magic fang/greater magic fang, and freedom of movement. I know you can get barkskin with the plant domain and a version of freedom of movement with the travel domain, and a cleric's other buffs are plenty good, but still, it bothers me. Thanks for all the amazing help so far. I am considering your advice, when I have the book in question, so please don't think I'm just ignoring you all.

Clerics get Freedom of Movement.

Terazul
2012-03-07, 09:41 PM
It's a good class, and honestly I would use it, but I'm not really going for an Asian feel, as strange as that sounds from a guy asking for monk builds. Maybe it would help if I explained my concept a little better. I want to create a kind of wandering mystic, who refuses to wear armor or use weapons, but who's unarmed fighting style could be better described as brawling, not martial arts.


Well, no offense, and maybe this is my infamiliarity with the Shaman mechanics speaking (that may possibly enforce it), but what's stopping you? You don't have to actually use the "asian feel" or whatever feel of any class. If you don't want to describe your flurry of blows as an intensely focused kata representing the harmony of elements, just say you donkey punch the guy.

Coidzor
2012-03-07, 09:52 PM
So what's wrong with tiger claw warblade again?

SanusCompleo
2012-03-08, 02:40 AM
SanusCompleo, how are you getting Insightful Strike with only two levels of Swashbuckler?

Also you should look into feats like Knowledge Devotion & Improved Favored Enemy for more damage output.

My mistake. I thought level three had Grace, when level 2 seemed to! Herp derp. My actual build has the three levels of Swashbuckler minus the levels of fighter, but I thought I did that because my DM is letting me add 1/2 class reflex to AC.

EDIT: Knowledge Devotion is wonderful. Improved Favored Enemy requires 5 favored enemies (!)

Feytalist
2012-03-08, 03:28 AM
Urban brawler barbarian variant, + Fist of the Forest.

+ Black Blood Cultist. Why does everyone forget Black Blood Cultist? It's like the unarmed barbarian PrC. Unless there's some alignment restriction I'm not aware of.


So what's wrong with tiger claw warblade again?

OP specified no unarmed swordsage. I guess everyone took that to mean no ToB.

I know Tiger Claw supports claw bracers, but does it support unarmed strikes?

The-Mage-King
2012-03-08, 03:48 AM
People, people.


We're forgetting something.


Battledancer, Dragon Compendium. Skilled martial artist who fights unarmed. Could be fluffed as a monk, easily.

realbombchu
2012-03-09, 12:24 PM
Sorry, I was wrong, clerics -do- get freedom of movement. At least I don't have to worry about that now.

I don't play evil characters as a matter of personal preference, so no black blood class.

Yes, that's an excellent point about reflavoring the shaman. All the same, I'm most tempted by the urban variant of the barbarian for this character.

I would normally be fine with Bo9S, but I'd just rather not use those classes this time.

Thanks again for this help.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-03-09, 02:34 PM
I know Tiger Claw supports claw bracers, but does it support unarmed strikes?

The only people who get benefits out of using a discipline's favored weapons are swordsages and people with Blade Meditation. There might be a magic item I'm forgetting too. And it doesn't matter, unarmed strike is a Tiger Claw favored weapon.

eggs
2012-03-09, 02:48 PM
Battledancer, Dragon Compendium. Skilled martial artist who fights unarmed. Could be fluffed as a monk, easily.
"Skilled" is a bit of an overstatement. A large bit.

The-Mage-King
2012-03-09, 03:11 PM
Point.

Though with proper multiclassing....

FMArthur
2012-03-09, 03:52 PM
A Battle Dancer is just a Monk with its mobility problems finally fixed at unreasonably late levels. Its saving grace would be an abuse of its 14th level ability where you attack an opponent every time you successfully Tumble into its space... and just repeat it over and over on one target until it's dead or you run out of movement.

The 20th level capstone is hilarious though. Look at this. Just look at it.

Dance of Death's Embrace (Su): A 2oth-level battle dance [sic] with 23 ranks in Tumble can perform a vicious, deadly dance to defeat her opponent. Before using this dance, the battle dancer selects a single target within 30 feet. As a full-round action, the battle dancer performs an elaborate dance that requires a DC 35 Tumble check to complete. If she succeeds, any time she makes a successful attack against her designated target she deals +2d6 points of damage. In addition, any critical threat the battle dancer makes against her designated target is automatically confirmed as a critical hit.

Anyway, what was my point again? Oh yes. From reading the class it quickly becomes apparent that it was just some poor soul's attempt at a Monk fix. It has the unarmed damage, the AC bonus, the fast movement, and tries to fix the damage reduction and movement-attack anti-synergy issues that even professionally incompetent designers became aware of after 3rd edition had been around long enough.

So using Battle Dancer here sort of goes against the spirit of the thread since it's another direct Monk substitute.